TheFM wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Gotta love the people who defend zos after years and years of complete silence and shameful neglect. What about those of us who have gone through ever single step to try and make the game run smoothly? For years now. Only to realize its a problem at the core of the game.. Its actually a simple problem to identify, in any zone where a lot of players group up there will be abysmal game performance, lag, and delay. Clearly it shines in cyrodil but it happens in many different places, at different times, for different reasons.

I have upgraded my internet to be 100 times better than what it was when I first started playing years ago. I bought a new xbox, put the game on an SSD. Tried every trick, nothing works nor has it ever worked. Eso on my PC is better but still pretty sad. But cyrodil on xbox is utterly shameful, and has been for years, especially considering the company behind this game. There is no excuse after all this time, plus the years of silence on the issue.

And as for other games, you're wrong. I've played BDO, wow, gw2, and archeage over the last 4+ years while playing eso. Sometimes i experience those issues in certain games but never on the scale that it is in eso. Its never something where i know that I will 100% experience the issue every day.

Like if i decide to go into the 30 day on xbox, right now, I know it will be awful. I know I wont be able to play effectively because of skill delay, lag, desyncs, and crashing. And I also know that it still even happens in a non pop locked campaign, while in the middle of no where, with no one around except myself and the person im fighting.

I've never seen this in another game, not on this scale. Plus its only gotten worse over time, the game improved a bit after launch and then has been on a downward spiral with performance. But credit where credit is due, they are
finally acknowledging the performance issues and maybe taking steps to fix them. But they've chased away so many players because of it, and considering what ive seen so far, like the OP, im not too optimistic.


*Just look at the clip in my signature, thats the daily norm on xbox in the main campaign. And has been for years. How are we supposed to play the game effectively like that?

Something about the way Cyro is designed causes it to have ghost lag, like what you are talking about. But excluding Cyro, most people that have problems with the game have problems because of their hardware. That lag is different than the lag from a large group of players.

The ghost lag will happen regardless of what your specs are or how many people are on screen or where you are at in the zone. It happens on all servers and ONLY in cyro.

The lag you are talking about with the groups of player is hardware lag. That is because your system is bottlenecking or processing more data than it was designed to do. Lowering your graphics settings or just getting out that area should cause the lag to go away as both lessen the demand on resources. This is the lag most people outside of Cyro experience.

Server side/route lag looks you cast a real time stop spell. You can move aorund in the game world but everyone and everything else is frozen. This is because the state of the game is not being updated on your client

Internet speed does not matter that much in MMOS, latency does. Bandwidth matters if you are sharing your connection with a lot of devices that are downloaded/streaming but the game itself requires very little bandwidth. You can play this game with no issues on 256KB connection if you have all 256KB dedicated to you. I played for quite a while on a 5MB/1MB connection and my wife could stream netflix while i played.

I honestly think the ghost lag in cyro has something to do with the way they have the zone setup on the server. Like it passes you between blades or something and that few hundred MS of lag you know is there is you traveling from one blade to another without a loading screen.

Performance fixes should be an ongoing every patch priority with new stuff added in as a secondary goal. They should not be waiting months or years to fix bugs and then jokingly call them a "feature". This would be like a tree limb going through your roof in a storm but after the tree is removed you just put new shingles over the hole and dont bother to replace the broken decking and expect it to NOT leak. Then when your house is moldy and that extra $50 and 15 min of time you skipped in the hole repair turned into a job that requires you move out and cost thousands of dollars, you are like " Oh we need to fix this and make a priority!"

THAT is how ZOS treats bugs and performance.

Thats some SERIOUS white knighting.

I dont think "white knight" means what you think it means. Or is this that new fad where we use vocabulary incorrectly when we describe something we disapprove of because the word is generally accepted as bad?

You are telling people it's their PC, it's their connection, bla bla bla, ist just patronising and flat wrong. Pc EU players have had issues since forever, same with consoles, are you in all seriousness telling me it's all our connections and hardware? That is white knighting to the t.

Actually it is just logical and rational. I dont patronize. I just dont sympathize with people whose first reactions is to blame someone else and second reaction is to ignore when people try to tell them what the real problem is and instead go off on a tirade about how it could not possibly be anything they are responsible for.

But to clear up a few things for you( again):

1) I am unbiased. I criticize ZOS often, im just not whiny about it.
2) I get called a white knight a lot by people who expect me to join their mob mentality and bring a pitchfork against evil corporations when i point out the logical inconsistencies in their argument. I know " white knight" is meant in a derogatory, hurtful way, but i come from a generation with very thick skin, so i just think people who call me that are being irrational and immature.
3)When the problem is ZOS, in my opinion, i have no problem expressing it. When the problem is the player, i have no problem expressing that either.
4) I worked professionally with computer hardware for a living( got a paycheck and everything) for over a decade. Often fixing many of the problems described on this very forum and blamed on ZOS. ZOS has taken an excessively heavy amount of bashing by players who do not seem to understand how the MMO genre works. You have to keep upgrading your systems every few years to keep up or you have to reduce the increasing load on your system, typically by lowering your settings.This is not a new concept to MMOs. All MMOs progress this way, its how they achieve longevity( and one reason WoW is dying out)

5) I know what hardware is in your consoles, I have a PS4 and have had a lot of past consoles. I rarely play it because of the severe limitations of it and dated graphics. I know how they build consoles. Consoles have always been theoretically designed for gaming. But they are only good inside their box with their rules. As soon as you step outside of that box they fall on their face. Consoles are built to be cheap budget gaming. They have to compete with far more useful and better computers so they boost the graphics really high and skimp on everything else. They sell you pretty console graphics for a budget computer price because the entire rest of the system is barebones.

This worked for a while until they started to allow games outside of their box, MMOS. MMOs are not governed by the same rules that consoles MUST live by. Also console players seem to not understand concepts such as " If doing X causes me to crash, i should not do X" Instead the get on the forums and rant and rave about how they can stand in a ball group of 60 people spamming abilities. The dont accept their system has limits that are possible to exceed in an MMO with relative ease.

One of those limits is the amount of people in a space. People are very taxing on a system( as a ZOS employee pointed out in a recent pinned housing thread) The animations, particles, shadows and other effects use far more resources than even a complex static object. When you play on PC, you learn to play within the limitations of the machine you are playing on and not to blame the developer for your lack of investment in hardware that can handle their software better.

Another problem with consoles is the lack or mostly lack of a way to lower graphics settings. Traditionally consoles dont want you to lower settings because you make their system look crappy doing that and there is no need as long as the developer stays inside the box.

Moving on...
6)When someone tells me that " yeah but console game X doesnt have any problems", i immediately google it. If you come at me with "facts", you better make sure you did your homework because i will google it. I always come with pages of people complaining of how this game crashes or lags. Not every console user will experience every game the same and that is because they all play them differently.

The same is true for PC users as well. What each person does in the same game matters to their experiences with performance. So game X might never crash for you but in game X you are not replicating what is making you crash in ESO.

7) I play on PC NA but i also play on PC EU because everyone kept telling me how bad it was compared to PC NA. Its not that its worse than PC NA that is causing the performance issues, it is that it has more people on it. So the game is more taxing on their systems because of a higher population. SO when they say the server performs poorly at high populations it usually, is, at least partially, their hardware being stressed more so it is causing it to appear that way.

Before we have a knee jerk meltdown, i dont deal in absolutes and not all issues on PC EU is with the client side hardware. The server is taxed as well having to keep up with a lot more moving objects and changing states. As we are well aware, EU peeps have pushed the server pop limit to a point of unstable. This is 100% of ZOS fault. They should not be operating so close to capacity and should find a solution to deal with large increase in population during peak EU time. Perhaps adding hardware that only runs during peak or leasing such hardware for only that time to help save money.

8) I run a 2019 i7 8700, 32gb,1070,SSD on win 10 on ultra settings and 4k. I do not have 5% of the issues people come up with on these forums. My wife plays on a 2009 7th gen 860, 8gb, gtx 650, with raid 0 on medium settings, she has about 25% of the problems experienced on these forums. We have a third computer. a 2015 i5- 5XXX series with 12gb,integrated graphics, and an HDD on win 10. It performs, even on low settings, pretty bad on ESO. Its playable but its more akin to the performance issues of PS4 than to a computer.

The 2019 PC: $1500 I had this custom built for my level of gaming
The 2009 PC: $1000 I had this custom built for my level of gaming.
The 2015 PC: $1300 This is a stock pre built.

It is not how much you pay for your hardware, its how well it works together as is obvious by the horrible performance of the 2015 model. While low end pcs are terrible for getting the specs all messed up for doing anything more taxing than streaming youtube, consoles are notoriously skewed towards trying to sell you eye candy. They sell a facade that is cardboard cutouts propped up with 2x4s.

9)If the problem was with the game, i would have far more problems doing the same things other people do. Again, i do my research, you tell me IC sewers are horribly laggy even when no one is around and ill be in them checking it out. I also can correlate the problems i have here with the three computers i own in which this game is loaded and all perform very differently. THAT is just one way i know your problem is hardware.

10) The game is not without problems on the developer end. IMHO much of it is sloppily put together and tossed out the door. That is sad because the people who actually create the content itself you can tell they take pride in their work and do a really good job at each piece. Its just whoever puts the puzzles together for shipping, just throws it together and sends it out the door.

Two weeks is not enough time to test new content that is as detailed or complex as what ESO pushes out. And they dont have enough testers. The testing phase of this game is a complete and utter joke. Its like that threw that in there " cause we are suppose to have one"

Conclusion) I understand not everyone can afford a $1500 computer to game on. The problem is people that dont have $1500 computers to game on cant expect the same gaming experience on their $400 console or walmart special that i get on a $1500 computer. Play within your systems limitations and quit expecting the developers to strip there games down so you can ball group on your aging outdated low end systems. Your life will be a lot less stressful when you accept that you have to play within the limitation of your system and not expect the developer to accommodate your limitations

MMOs move forward, if you cant handle that, they are not for you and you should stick to single player games.