Zenimax will never fix the lag.

visionality · February 2020

Mayrael wrote: »

Most EU population is spread in 3-4 time zones, which leads to situation that there are times when almost whole EU is trying to play at the same moment.

I keep reading this argument whenever ZOS discusses PC/EU server problems. And I'm flabberghasted whenever I see players repeat it like it makes any sense.

@Mayrael: Have you ever thought about the number of timezones US players are in? Let me tell you: 3-4. Huh. US primetime is as condensed as EU primetime, US just has better servers. So please stop buying and repeating ZOS white little lies just because it is so much more comfy than bringing the PC/EU server up to the standard of PC/US.

(PS: This is not inteded as a personal insult, but please stop buying and spreading the garbage excuses ZOS comes up with to 'explain' the abysmal performance of the PC/EU server. This argument is obviously only made up to confuse and obfuscate.)

Vercingetorix · February 2020

Patch 5.2.0 - "Reduced the number of players on the servers by alienating them with senseless fun-killing nerfs with no room for player feedback. Will continue to improve server performance by alienating players in order to meet 2020 Q2 goals. Oh, and buy more crown crates."

I warned folks in September that this was always the plan to "fix" performance. Do you believe me now?

Mayrael · February 2020

visionality wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Most EU population is spread in 3-4 time zones, which leads to situation that there are times when almost whole EU is trying to play at the same moment.

I keep reading this argument whenever ZOS discusses PC/EU server problems. And I'm flabberghasted whenever I see players repeat it like it makes any sense.

@Mayrael: Have you ever thought about the number of timezones US players are in? Let me tell you: 3-4. Huh. US primetime is as condensed as EU primetime, US just has better servers. So please stop buying and repeating ZOS white little lies just because it is so much more comfy than bringing the PC/EU server up to the standard of PC/US.

(PS: This is not inteded as a personal insult, but please stop buying and spreading the garbage excuses ZOS comes up with to 'explain' the abysmal performance of the PC/EU server. This argument is obviously only made up to confuse and obfuscate.)

True, but EU IMHO is more populated. Look in Alliance War threads on this forums. NA players say they have just one poplocked campaign, while on EU we have at least 2 (CP locked and noCP locked).

Nevertheless I suppose they have better servers or simply USA has better infrastructure than Germany.

The_Snuff · February 2020

drakthir wrote: »

They are fixing the lag though, have you seen the server updates they are bringing?

Your year-round addiction is what puts the bread on their tables. That $15 a month subscription, those $60 “expansions”, gambling on loot crates for shiny mounts with abysmal drop rates. They have made no promises, just a vague message of “maybe we’ll figure out in a year idk here’s $60 dlc in the meantime”. That “plan” is nothing more than preying on the gullible for one last dollar.

Maxx7410 · February 2020

i think they have improved a little the lag i dont belive they will ever fix it 100% because the engine is outdated

usmguy1234 · February 2020

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

should try playing on the EU server's its standard for us, but the changes coming have made improvements on the PTS so far.

Honestly I'm not convinced there's much difference at this point minus the latency that eu experiences as a result of the capability of being further away from the server. This is the console experience anyways.

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2020

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Hip_Uncle_Z · February 2020

ZOS_TrishM wrote: »

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and bashing comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

Thank you for your understanding.

It's nice that community mgr's will clean up threads, but a major bummer that they'll monitor posts about latency, but then not have anyone address it.

KAT_MEAT · February 2020

The_Snuff wrote: »

drakthir wrote: »

They are fixing the lag though, have you seen the server updates they are bringing?

Your year-round addiction is what puts the bread on their tables. That $15 a month subscription, those $60 “expansions”, gambling on loot crates for shiny mounts with abysmal drop rates. They have made no promises, just a vague message of “maybe we’ll figure out in a year idk here’s $60 dlc in the meantime”. That “plan” is nothing more than preying on the gullible for one last dollar.

Just repost this 1000 times lol

JanTanhide · February 2020

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

This is largely a console problem. Yesterday I've experienced the worst day for lag since I remember. And I'm talking pve. I know that pvp currently is unplayable on PS4.

And we still have no comments on that from Gina.

They think it will get swept under the rug? That we'll pay for the worst gaming experience ever? No. Vote with your wallets. I know I will.

Yep. Agree. Consoles just can't handle the load (except Xbox one x). Join the master race! PC!

The_Snuff · February 2020

I have the xbox one x, the only difference is I get out of the 5 load screens per siege faster than the original One owners if they even make it out at all. Regardless of how superb your gaming computer is console owners deserve a functioning game when they pay for it, and it once functioned.

eso_lags · February 2020

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Gotta love the people who defend zos after years and years of complete silence and shameful neglect. What about those of us who have gone through ever single step to try and make the game run smoothly? For years now. Only to realize its a problem at the core of the game.. Its actually a simple problem to identify, in any zone where a lot of players group up there will be abysmal game performance, lag, and delay. Clearly it shines in cyrodil but it happens in many different places, at different times, for different reasons.

I have upgraded my internet to be 100 times better than what it was when I first started playing years ago. I bought a new xbox, put the game on an SSD. Tried every trick, nothing works nor has it ever worked. Eso on my PC is better but still pretty sad. But cyrodil on xbox is utterly shameful, and has been for years, especially considering the company behind this game. There is no excuse after all this time, plus the years of silence on the issue.

And as for other games, you're wrong. I've played BDO, wow, gw2, and archeage over the last 4+ years while playing eso. Sometimes i experience those issues in certain games but never on the scale that it is in eso. Its never something where i know that I will 100% experience the issue every day.

Like if i decide to go into the 30 day on xbox, right now, I know it will be awful. I know I wont be able to play effectively because of skill delay, lag, desyncs, and crashing. And I also know that it still even happens in a non pop locked campaign, while in the middle of no where, with no one around except myself and the person im fighting.

I've never seen this in another game, not on this scale. Plus its only gotten worse over time, the game improved a bit after launch and then has been on a downward spiral with performance. But credit where credit is due, they are
finally acknowledging the performance issues and maybe taking steps to fix them. But they've chased away so many players because of it, and considering what ive seen so far, like the OP, im not too optimistic.

*Just look at the clip in my signature, thats the daily norm on xbox in the main campaign. And has been for years. How are we supposed to play the game effectively like that?

Anotherone773 · February 2020

eso_lags wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Gotta love the people who defend zos after years and years of complete silence and shameful neglect. What about those of us who have gone through ever single step to try and make the game run smoothly? For years now. Only to realize its a problem at the core of the game.. Its actually a simple problem to identify, in any zone where a lot of players group up there will be abysmal game performance, lag, and delay. Clearly it shines in cyrodil but it happens in many different places, at different times, for different reasons.

I have upgraded my internet to be 100 times better than what it was when I first started playing years ago. I bought a new xbox, put the game on an SSD. Tried every trick, nothing works nor has it ever worked. Eso on my PC is better but still pretty sad. But cyrodil on xbox is utterly shameful, and has been for years, especially considering the company behind this game. There is no excuse after all this time, plus the years of silence on the issue.

And as for other games, you're wrong. I've played BDO, wow, gw2, and archeage over the last 4+ years while playing eso. Sometimes i experience those issues in certain games but never on the scale that it is in eso. Its never something where i know that I will 100% experience the issue every day.

Like if i decide to go into the 30 day on xbox, right now, I know it will be awful. I know I wont be able to play effectively because of skill delay, lag, desyncs, and crashing. And I also know that it still even happens in a non pop locked campaign, while in the middle of no where, with no one around except myself and the person im fighting.

I've never seen this in another game, not on this scale. Plus its only gotten worse over time, the game improved a bit after launch and then has been on a downward spiral with performance. But credit where credit is due, they are
finally acknowledging the performance issues and maybe taking steps to fix them. But they've chased away so many players because of it, and considering what ive seen so far, like the OP, im not too optimistic.

*Just look at the clip in my signature, thats the daily norm on xbox in the main campaign. And has been for years. How are we supposed to play the game effectively like that?

Something about the way Cyro is designed causes it to have ghost lag, like what you are talking about. But excluding Cyro, most people that have problems with the game have problems because of their hardware. That lag is different than the lag from a large group of players.

The ghost lag will happen regardless of what your specs are or how many people are on screen or where you are at in the zone. It happens on all servers and ONLY in cyro.

The lag you are talking about with the groups of player is hardware lag. That is because your system is bottlenecking or processing more data than it was designed to do. Lowering your graphics settings or just getting out that area should cause the lag to go away as both lessen the demand on resources. This is the lag most people outside of Cyro experience.

Server side/route lag looks you cast a real time stop spell. You can move aorund in the game world but everyone and everything else is frozen. This is because the state of the game is not being updated on your client

Internet speed does not matter that much in MMOS, latency does. Bandwidth matters if you are sharing your connection with a lot of devices that are downloaded/streaming but the game itself requires very little bandwidth. You can play this game with no issues on 256KB connection if you have all 256KB dedicated to you. I played for quite a while on a 5MB/1MB connection and my wife could stream netflix while i played.

I honestly think the ghost lag in cyro has something to do with the way they have the zone setup on the server. Like it passes you between blades or something and that few hundred MS of lag you know is there is you traveling from one blade to another without a loading screen.

Performance fixes should be an ongoing every patch priority with new stuff added in as a secondary goal. They should not be waiting months or years to fix bugs and then jokingly call them a "feature". This would be like a tree limb going through your roof in a storm but after the tree is removed you just put new shingles over the hole and dont bother to replace the broken decking and expect it to NOT leak. Then when your house is moldy and that extra $50 and 15 min of time you skipped in the hole repair turned into a job that requires you move out and cost thousands of dollars, you are like " Oh we need to fix this and make a priority!"

THAT is how ZOS treats bugs and performance.

eso_lags · February 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Gotta love the people who defend zos after years and years of complete silence and shameful neglect. What about those of us who have gone through ever single step to try and make the game run smoothly? For years now. Only to realize its a problem at the core of the game.. Its actually a simple problem to identify, in any zone where a lot of players group up there will be abysmal game performance, lag, and delay. Clearly it shines in cyrodil but it happens in many different places, at different times, for different reasons.

I have upgraded my internet to be 100 times better than what it was when I first started playing years ago. I bought a new xbox, put the game on an SSD. Tried every trick, nothing works nor has it ever worked. Eso on my PC is better but still pretty sad. But cyrodil on xbox is utterly shameful, and has been for years, especially considering the company behind this game. There is no excuse after all this time, plus the years of silence on the issue.

And as for other games, you're wrong. I've played BDO, wow, gw2, and archeage over the last 4+ years while playing eso. Sometimes i experience those issues in certain games but never on the scale that it is in eso. Its never something where i know that I will 100% experience the issue every day.

Like if i decide to go into the 30 day on xbox, right now, I know it will be awful. I know I wont be able to play effectively because of skill delay, lag, desyncs, and crashing. And I also know that it still even happens in a non pop locked campaign, while in the middle of no where, with no one around except myself and the person im fighting.

I've never seen this in another game, not on this scale. Plus its only gotten worse over time, the game improved a bit after launch and then has been on a downward spiral with performance. But credit where credit is due, they are
finally acknowledging the performance issues and maybe taking steps to fix them. But they've chased away so many players because of it, and considering what ive seen so far, like the OP, im not too optimistic.

*Just look at the clip in my signature, thats the daily norm on xbox in the main campaign. And has been for years. How are we supposed to play the game effectively like that?

Something about the way Cyro is designed causes it to have ghost lag, like what you are talking about. But excluding Cyro, most people that have problems with the game have problems because of their hardware. That lag is different than the lag from a large group of players.

The ghost lag will happen regardless of what your specs are or how many people are on screen or where you are at in the zone. It happens on all servers and ONLY in cyro.

The lag you are talking about with the groups of player is hardware lag. That is because your system is bottlenecking or processing more data than it was designed to do. Lowering your graphics settings or just getting out that area should cause the lag to go away as both lessen the demand on resources. This is the lag most people outside of Cyro experience.

Server side/route lag looks you cast a real time stop spell. You can move aorund in the game world but everyone and everything else is frozen. This is because the state of the game is not being updated on your client

Internet speed does not matter that much in MMOS, latency does. Bandwidth matters if you are sharing your connection with a lot of devices that are downloaded/streaming but the game itself requires very little bandwidth. You can play this game with no issues on 256KB connection if you have all 256KB dedicated to you. I played for quite a while on a 5MB/1MB connection and my wife could stream netflix while i played.

I honestly think the ghost lag in cyro has something to do with the way they have the zone setup on the server. Like it passes you between blades or something and that few hundred MS of lag you know is there is you traveling from one blade to another without a loading screen.

Performance fixes should be an ongoing every patch priority with new stuff added in as a secondary goal. They should not be waiting months or years to fix bugs and then jokingly call them a "feature". This would be like a tree limb going through your roof in a storm but after the tree is removed you just put new shingles over the hole and dont bother to replace the broken decking and expect it to NOT leak. Then when your house is moldy and that extra $50 and 15 min of time you skipped in the hole repair turned into a job that requires you move out and cost thousands of dollars, you are like " Oh we need to fix this and make a priority!"

THAT is how ZOS treats bugs and performance.

I play on xbox. My hardware should have nothing to do with it, and if it does then zos should have never put the game on console if they didnt intend on doing whatever they had to do to make sure the game kept running smoothly after years of throwing random *** into the game. Things like proc sets, new classes, abilities, and changes they have made. And at the very least, if they were going to let it get this bad, they should give those of us who are willing to buy the game on PC the option to transfer. At least for a little better performance.

Because my game ran pretty good in cyrodil before morrowind. Yes haderus was laggy, but it was nothing compared to the *** going on today. Its truly unplayable most of the time unless you want to zerg in the 30 day or play in an unpopulated campaign. Skill delay is my biggest issue .Like i said before check out the video link in my signature, thats the norm over here.

Even back in thieves guild i remember a month or so where it was unplayable like this every day. You couldnt even load into mournhold, which used to be a pretty big gathering area back then (right near the wayshrine) without crashing. I remember going to shadowfen and crossing the border to ride over. It was bad, but it was only for a bit and then it was better. Idk what has changed since morrowind but thats when i noticed it getting progressively worse in cyrodil. Year after year, and after all the countless posts all we would get is silence.

And you are wrong about the issue only being in cyrodil. I've noticed it in certain zones during certain times. Sometimes its random, hell even tonight I was running around elsweyr and started getting like 2 fps for no reason. For a good 10 minutes, then it was gone.

But I've had it happen during certain events, like the witches festival. During patch launches in certain zones. Skyreach when a new class came out, and so on.. Its mainly when there are a lot of people in one area, like there normally are in cyrodil. Something that doesnt usually happen on a daily basis except in cyrodil. Imo its a problem at the core of the game.

nafensoriel · February 2020

eso_lags wrote: »

/snips

I just wanted to chime in on the concept that the Xbox does not mean you have to worry about hardware.

Unfortunately, this is completely untrue for any title that is in active development on a console.
Generally, active development slowly pushes the acceptable limits of the consoles to keep up with PCs. In short as consoles age they tend to run titles worse for things like MMOs(non mmos tend to run better).

Sucks... but it is what it is.

Anotherone773 · February 2020

eso_lags wrote: »

I play on xbox. My hardware should have nothing to do with it,

It has to do a lot with certain types of lag. Hardware lag is extremely common in Cyro especially on consoles. Consoles are designed to look pretty not do heavily calculations. ESO needs a console that can do a lot of calculations quickly.

if it does then zos should have never put the game on console if they didnt intend on doing whatever they had to do to make sure the game kept running smoothly after years of throwing random *** into the game.

ESO is an MMO. MMOS have to keep moving forward unlike your typical run of the mill console game. If an MMO does not keep up with the times, it dies. We PC players already have to play in kiddie mode because the older versions of the consoles cant handle the game as is. Xbox does a bit better than Sony. But MMOs are not games you can buy on consoles and then play for 20 years without ever upgrading the console. BTW im pretty sure you can play some Xbox games directly on windows using xbox anywhere or whatever its called. Dont know if this is one of them but if it isnt it should be.

And at the very least, if they were going to let it get this bad, they should give those of us who are willing to buy the game on PC the option to transfer. At least for a little better performance.

I agree if you buy the game on PC, they should transfer some basics over for you. Most developers allow transfers for a fee with restrictions. Typically it is all your skills the gear you are wearing and gold and experience. But at least you would have all your characters and a good chuck of gold to get you started. Usually this has to be done manually by an actual person. Im really surprised, the dev team doesnt have at least a couple of people that transfer characters between platforms all day for a fee. Its a good service and they can make a bit of profit off it.

.Like i said before check out the video link in my signature, thats the norm over here.

I did, that doesnt look like your system. That looks like ghost lag which is usually what people complain about in Cyro when they say" and i was by myself!" I get it on my computer and my pc barely breaks a sweat playing this game. I get it literally in the middle of nowhere in cyro, hadnt even seen a person for 5 minutes or an NPC for 2 or 3 campaign was 1 and 2 bars. I dont think the cyro server is very good or the way it handles data is horrible or something. The lag isnt evident at all. No signs of it in FPS or ping skills dont appear laggy people arent freezing on screen but everything feels slightly off like a badly dubbed movie. I call it ghost lag because its there but its very subtle and you know something is wrong, it just isnt obvious... like a ghost.

And you are wrong about the issue only being in cyrodil. I've noticed it in certain zones during certain times. Sometimes its random, hell even tonight I was running around elsweyr and started getting like 2 fps for no reason. For a good 10 minutes, then it was gone.

But I've had it happen during certain events, like the witches festival. During patch launches in certain zones. Skyreach when a new class came out, and so on.. Its mainly when there are a lot of people in one area,

that is hardware lag. Your hardware is struggling to process the game fast enough. The later zone have better textures that also consume more resources. On a newer pc on Ultra you can go from Cyro through base game zones through DLCS through chapters and literally watch the graphics progress as you port from one way shrine to another.

Here is a wild thought... maybe they are waiting to fix cyro until the stop supporting PS4 and Xbox one or at least the older versions of them. Then rebuild the entire zone with modern graphics and better tech. I wouldnt doubt if they are planning something like a complete redo of cyro. They just need to get rid of support for that old hardware.

Iskiab · February 2020

It’s a server capacity issue. Optimization will help it work w bit better on consoles, but will make next to no difference on a PC.

They obviously downgraded server capacity and the game is on the back burner for the company.

IwakuraLain42 · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

/snips

I just wanted to chime in on the concept that the Xbox does not mean you have to worry about hardware.

Unfortunately, this is completely untrue for any title that is in active development on a console.
Generally, active development slowly pushes the acceptable limits of the consoles to keep up with PCs. In short as consoles age they tend to run titles worse for things like MMOs(non mmos tend to run better).

Sucks... but it is what it is.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. You can very well code and maintain an MMORPG on console. Destiny (which belongs to that category) and FF14 show that this very well possible. But you need resources and developers for that, which ZOS is very clearly lacking.

Raudgrani · February 2020

Current generation consoles should be able to handle a game like this without any effort at all, unless it's really badly coded like some kind of Roblox game. It's getting tiresome to see it getting ever worse too, hard to keep motivation to even hope for improvement. Love the game and yada yada, but just like a dysfunctional relationship - enough is enough some day.

If it IS a matter of ZOS paying more money for server power, and/or hiring some external consults to improve coding (that's what you normally do if you can't solve a problem yourself); I'm really baffled. How one can run an enterprise like this down the drain, because you want to earn more money for just some more time - and not for many years to come, unbelievable...

TheFM · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

/snip

Responding to this one in a separate post.
The memory update was not a fail. With a basic understanding of software you can easily see that the game handles memory load considerably better than it used to.

Problem is that memory handling isn't exactly a huge performance booster visually. It helps fix other problems when you are refactoring though and eases up overhead.

As far as all the crashes you experience? When you refactor(rewrite) things you create bugs. It doesn't mean the refactor didn't do exactly what you said it did. PS4/Xbox crap tends to roll downhill longer as well due to its patch verification process.

Except it is a fail because you still have to restart your client every hour or two because of the memory leak. Before the hotfix of what ever they fixed it was fine, it would have been a success, but whatever they " fixed " after the patch ruined it again. But yes, everyone in all 5 of my 500 person guilds are all experiencing hardware issues, clearly.

TheFM · February 2020

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

It isn't just consoles seeing more lag. I'm on PC NA and over the past couple of months I've noticed an uptick in lag, never ending loading screens and other performance issues. I haven't done a lot of in-depth diagnosis but what tracing I've done shows that it is not a problem with my internet connection nor my PC. The problems appear after communications get into the ZOS and their IP's networks. At this point I'm waiting to see if the upcoming update will improve things as I can't see wasting time over a problem with a major code change on the horizon.

Same issue here. I have a whopping 7 ms ping to frankfurt. It only explodes when it hits the zos servers.

TheFM · February 2020

Cirantille wrote: »

It is a regular day in Pc/Eu

We need to get the message out in game that they need to get on the forums and be loud. That is the only way anything will happen. PC NA players stormed the forums when they had lag issues a few months back, and it got fixed, EU players have been pretty silent tbh.

TheFM · February 2020

Mayrael wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Most EU population is spread in 3-4 time zones, which leads to situation that there are times when almost whole EU is trying to play at the same moment.

I keep reading this argument whenever ZOS discusses PC/EU server problems. And I'm flabberghasted whenever I see players repeat it like it makes any sense.

@Mayrael: Have you ever thought about the number of timezones US players are in? Let me tell you: 3-4. Huh. US primetime is as condensed as EU primetime, US just has better servers. So please stop buying and repeating ZOS white little lies just because it is so much more comfy than bringing the PC/EU server up to the standard of PC/US.

(PS: This is not inteded as a personal insult, but please stop buying and spreading the garbage excuses ZOS comes up with to 'explain' the abysmal performance of the PC/EU server. This argument is obviously only made up to confuse and obfuscate.)

True, but EU IMHO is more populated. Look in Alliance War threads on this forums. NA players say they have just one poplocked campaign, while on EU we have at least 2 (CP locked and noCP locked).

Nevertheless I suppose they have better servers or simply USA has better infrastructure than Germany.

The us does not have better infrastructure than germany, thats just hilarious. It is 100 percent the servers, the us servers are tended to day and night, the eu servers are just garbage.

TheFM · February 2020

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Funny, i can play every game under the sun , no matter how many players, with no issue, yet this game isa special case? no.

nafensoriel · February 2020

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

/snips

I just wanted to chime in on the concept that the Xbox does not mean you have to worry about hardware.

Unfortunately, this is completely untrue for any title that is in active development on a console.
Generally, active development slowly pushes the acceptable limits of the consoles to keep up with PCs. In short as consoles age they tend to run titles worse for things like MMOs(non mmos tend to run better).

Sucks... but it is what it is.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. You can very well code and maintain an MMORPG on console. Destiny (which belongs to that category) and FF14 show that this very well possible. But you need resources and developers for that, which ZOS is very clearly lacking.

Did the title get redone entirely? No? Then it will use more resources as time develops in an active development environment.
Period. Dot. End.
It doesn't matter what another title does this truism is just fact. Other titles might have more breathing room by design or they might have a team entirely focused on consoles(both FF14 and Destiny have MASSIVE teams compared to ESO btw) that allows them to actively refactor the game when new additions are added. It doesn't change the fact that as development continues the game WILL degrade in performance as its environment WILL NOT BE IMPROVED DURING THAT TIME.

Maintaining the code doesn't mean squat. Its simple physics. More on the same hardware equals slower. You can crib fixes in or plan for that in development but it doesn't change the facts.

@Iskiab If you seriously think they "downgraded" the servers and you only understand capacity as hardware limited then you need to brush up your education in how such things function. Nothing in your post made sense.

Iskiab · February 2020

Anyone who’s played the game a while knows that performance has declined starting with murkmire.

All the ‘server improvement plans’ stuff is noise and garbage. They downgraded the servers and the game’s running worse now then it ever has.

The optimization will help consoles a bit because they’re hardware locked, but on a PC thinking people can’t power through the poor code is ridiculous.

They cut server capacity and the game now won’t run properly; end of story. I don’t think they care if cyrodiil’s unplayable.

If they had half a brain they’d have cut cyrodiil player cap to coincide with lower capacity, but that would be acknowledging that they’re stripping resources from the game and devoting it to other projects. The game is a dead MMO walking.

Anotherone773 · February 2020

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

nafensoriel wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

/snips

I just wanted to chime in on the concept that the Xbox does not mean you have to worry about hardware.

Unfortunately, this is completely untrue for any title that is in active development on a console.
Generally, active development slowly pushes the acceptable limits of the consoles to keep up with PCs. In short as consoles age they tend to run titles worse for things like MMOs(non mmos tend to run better).

Sucks... but it is what it is.

Sorry, but this is utter nonsense. You can very well code and maintain an MMORPG on console. Destiny (which belongs to that category) and FF14 show that this very well possible. But you need resources and developers for that, which ZOS is very clearly lacking.

If youre going to call someones ( true by the way) statement "utter nonsense" at least make sure your argument is not actually utter nonsense.

FF14 first of all, has a lot of lag and crash issues on console. Second, graphically it doesnt have anywhere near the textures or environmental detail that ESO has. In fact the game is quite basic, like cyro in the graphics department. It has a lot of wide open areas that have few 3d objects. Distant objects such as trees look like a back drop rather than distant trees. A lot of the area is barren. a lot of blocky smooth textures. Graphically its like comparing FHD to 4K . Also the FF franchise is quite Anime in nature which tends to be less graphically intense than games like ESO.

Destiny 2 is in a similar boat to FF14. Visually, it is very 2010. The textures are simple. shadows, reflections, particles,etc. are all dated. In contrast if you go to Southern Elsweyr on a newer PC on ultra settings in 4k, it looks completely different than the blurred texture gameplay that plagues consoles. Everything is so crisp and clean you could swear if you touch your monitor, you could feel the stone. The detail is absolutely stunning.

Sure we could freeze the game in time so that people who are stuck in the technological past can enjoy it on their dated systems, but then a lot of people would stop playing as the game started to feel dated and games that looked better came out. We could totally do that. We could also freeze tech in time for people who want use flip phones, typewriters, write checks, rent videos on VHS at blockbuster, shop at malls, and use fold up maps to navigate the country's highways.

The oldest supported consoles are two CPU and GPU generations behind the rest of the planet. Software wise the difference between then and now is like the difference between Windows XP and Windows 10. Console makers release a major version about every 6 years. Technology wise, that is a lifetime and the consoles are already on the lower end of the spectrum when released. Within a couple of years they are already dated. Dated is a surefire way to kill an MMO.

The devs will be using tools to develop content today that was made for tech today not a decade ago. That is already vintage in the world of tech and a lot of older versions of software are not even supported after a few years.

I do love the audacity of people that think the entire planet should wait on them to upgrade their tech before moving on. " Well you should build the game for my aging, budget, underpowered game system!" Rather than accept the fact that either they keep up with technology or accept they will be left behind and do without. Nope, instead we are going to demand the entire world waits for us.

The MMO tech train is always moving forward...either get on it or walk but stop holding up everyone else that wants to ride by demanding it wait at the station until you are ready to get on board.

thissocalledflower · February 2020

Zeni doesnt own the internet. Well, at least not yet. Lag has so many causes. Yes i dont doubt a lot of it is issues with their servers but even so they could never fix the lag well enough to suit everyone. Your isp and your connection to them has more to do with your experience much of the time, moreso then a game server. Case in point, i usually get a better connection to the eu servers than the na servers even though i am on the east coast of the usa. Seems there must be a fiber optic that runs from washington dc to germany near the eu servers, whereas there is no such thing between me and texas (the supposed location of the na servers) and so much of the time the na servers just dont perform as well for me. Same is true for linux servers that i use to update my system, when i do a speed test on the repos for the updates, i end up with servers in germany and the usa. Just one of those weird quirks of where i live i guess. Location matters.

Secondly, all the fancy calculations that have to be made for all the fancy things this game does takes a lot of time and load on the servers. Clearly they are trying to address at least some of these issues with update coming on the 25th? Time will tell i guess if they are really trying to do right by their consumers.

UppGRAYxDD · February 2020

nafensoriel wrote: »

The_Snuff wrote: »

/snip

Funny. They are spending an entire year doing major code refactors to address all of this. U25 Is a huge part of this.
You also have zero understanding of how servers work or how content expansions can or cannot affect them.

/edit
@Mayrael
It has been said to the point of nausea that the problems with the game are software-based. ZOS has point blank said this.
Can we please stop the "upgrade your servers" meme?

So you are saying that there is no server issue when we just had a PvP event with 4-5 full population locked campaigns at prime time, and had no where near the amount of lag...

It's nonsense, ZoS's "Mega Server" is basically a bunch of leased servers at a databank. You see they "leased" more server space for the event, then immediately dropped the extras when the event ended. Pure $$$ making motives as always. As for software, they are using old code on an old engine and trying to squeeze every last cent out of it before doing anything. This is mainly due to ZoS's stance on inhouse developers and testers, which if you didnt know they contract development work all the time instead of allocating funds for an inhouse department This leads to longer fix times and more errors. I liken it to a large sailing vessel where when sail adjustments are needed, the captain must call to land to have sailors sent out by chopper to fix things. Now before someone yells about how they do have devs in house..... Yes they do, for Crown store items and new content, basically the only thing they truly care about $$$.Last, Transparency.... ZoS has none...none at all. I can kind of understand too. Why would they want the consumer to know...

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2020

eso_lags wrote: »

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

1) Your PC hardware
2) Server hardware
3) Software (game)
4) Your ISP speed (what you actually get during prime hour usage)
5) Your distance to the server
6) The internet infrastructure between you, your ISP and the servers

All of these pieces impact your enjoyment of the game. If you go cheap on your PC, use a low speed internet ISP and the infrastructure is well crap, you will experience some issues.

I know for me I can have my wife watching a 4k movie, my daughter can be streaming, and I can go into the PVP zones with some issues during prime internet usage for my area. However, if I go when no one else is home and the time is early morning as it is outside of prime internet traffic I see no issues.

The fixes they are working on are a move in the right direction. Once the software is upgrade ZoS can start to upgrade the hardware to work with the updated software. Sometimes you need better software before you update the hardware because new hardware just won't work with older software. And sometimes it goes the other way.

Being a graphically intense game and expecting smooth play with the number of players allowed in PVP or overland PVE, you must be dreaming because every MMO game I have played has its issues with latency / lag.

Gotta love the people who defend zos after years and years of complete silence and shameful neglect. What about those of us who have gone through ever single step to try and make the game run smoothly? For years now. Only to realize its a problem at the core of the game.. Its actually a simple problem to identify, in any zone where a lot of players group up there will be abysmal game performance, lag, and delay. Clearly it shines in cyrodil but it happens in many different places, at different times, for different reasons.

ALL MMOs I HAVE PLAYED HAS HAD THIS ISSUE with LAG/LATENCY WHEN THERE ARE MANY PLAYERS ONLINE IN A ZONE. IT IS NOT A ESO THING, IT IS A MMO ISSUE.

Lag and latency cannot be resolved simply updating one or two things on ZoS end. The best way to resolve this is move closer to the servers or if ZoS really wanted to create more regional servers.

Creating more regional server would cause many player headaches as we would probably lose all of our achievements, we would have to start over, maybe lose anything we bought with crowns, etc.. it would all depend on how ZoS decides to manage the regional servers if they go that route. Add to it you would lose the ability to play with your friends if they are placed on a different regional server.

Mega servers help keep cost for the company lower, it ensures a higher game population to allow players to get into dungeons easier, it provides more players for PVP, etc... the issue than becomes lag and latency and managing through it.

I give ZoS props for working to solving the issue by trying to streamline their code, that can help a bit. Getting new hardware can also help.

Just like ZoS is doing, we as players need to take accountability of our hardware and connection to ensure we are getting the best connection to the server to help improve our gaming experience.

I updated my internet speed multiple times now to improve the experience on my end. I updated my hard drive, my router, my modem, etc... I personally spent around $500 on my updates and they have paid off with faster load time, less latency, reduction in lag, etc... players and developers both need to take accountability.

Even with all of the update you may still experience lag because lag/latency is not just a server issue but overall internet traffic can impact your gaming experience. Playing a peak internet times will impact your overall experience.

If you want to play the game at peak times you better have the best hardware and live closer ZoS server to ensure your experience is better. Otherwise, like all other mmo games lag and latency will be present and make gaming at times challenging.