Bots and Nerfs

TorqueGT · February 2020

My opinion and hopeful changes:

1. Gathering of nodes- I heard there were bots in the game recently and have been gone for awhile and realized that when I went to gather it did seem crazy how much the nodes were gone and I really did not see many people around not sure how bots work. I am not against bots per say but this has to change. I hear there may be a update to try and stop bots but I also hear from gamers that it can’t be stoped. First of all not sure how hard it is to code but nodes should be there no matter if another player took it. It should be for each individual and I know this can be done have seen it in other mmo. If that is impossible then maybe bots should be part of the game if they can’t be stoped and put into an eos plus perk. Yep that will *** the bot people off and those that like to see millions of gold in their inventory but really better for the whole.(Apparently this is not a problem- I saw another post in another forum about this but ok)-if not a problem then guess no need to change

2. Please quit being so nerf happy, this break sets and u say it to even out but then really it just makes another set more viable and then every switch to that set and yep u have to nerf again. This cannot be the best way. I know it creates playability bc now u have to go grind for another set but does not even out the game. Sure I am sure certain things need to be changed bc it may be broken and not meant to be that way but if u want more people playing w diff sets then quit nerf nerf nerf and maybe buff to another set to make it more even.(I know ZOS will do nothing as this is part of playability of game but can be annoying and at the same time can be a good thing)

These are my opinions and I know people are going to tear these apart but so be it.

I am not trolling I like this game and will play anyway so no need to tell me to quit playing.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2020

Your post has little to nothing to do with mechanics. Specific thread titles will get you more response.
Bots are significantly reduced from what they once were. The fact you can't even find and identify one should be an indicator.
The occasional period and fully spelling out words will get more response. You're not texting, they don't cost extra, and will help break up some major run-on.
Telling ZoS not to do something is even less effective than them telling you how to play.
Attacking 'elites' is no less tacky than 'elites' attacking you. Don't make assumptions.
A quick search would've validated your final statement, a few hundred times over.

TorqueGT · February 2020

1st gathering is a mechanic of the game

2nd this is not an English paper and u are being tacky w ur response

3rd I will give u the attack on elites that was prob to much, but really not saying anything bad just maybe u might get mad if this is the way u like the game. That is what I should have just said, and I apologize for that.

4th-as I would love ZOS to look at this and maybe make these better I really don’t expect it. ZOS will do what they want to.

5th-I still hold to my opinion about the bots

I do think there are certain aspects of the game that could be better for the whole and not just a certain group.

End game could be better and one way is if sets did not get nerfed once u got them. (Again my opinion)

Turelus · February 2020

TorqueGT wrote: »

End game could be better and one way is if sets did not get nerfed once u got them. (Again my opinion)

The argument could also be made that the end game will be better with some sets being nerfed. Not everyone enjoys seeing bosses burnt down before a mechanic an even fire and the inflation of DPS in the last two years.

idk · February 2020

I expected a post about game mechanics.

OP you are making an assumption that the lack of nodes to harvest is due to bots. Players harvest nodes as well. If the area you are farming has already been cleaned find a less populated area. Plenty to go around.
Nodes are and have always ben community wide. So if I harvest a node it should not be available to anyone else until it respawns. I like that idea better than making them personal and reducing the total number of nodes.
As for "nerfs", you returned in the middle of a major combat overhaul. Zos has been implementing a new combat design and will continue that for at least a few more updates. Yes, we are tired of it but Zos is still going to finish it.

TorqueGT · February 2020

Look I agree w ur post about the dps but it is expected that u have to hit that high number for dps for end game and I do not really have anything wrong to say about that. Why does it have to be just a few sets that are the mainstream it would be more w/o the nerfs.
People don’t want to be in these dungeons for 6hours, and want them to go as easy as possible.

As I agree when it comes to dps skill is better than sets but really I would like to see an end game player put on a bad set and pull the same numbers.

For a certain group of players and no this is not the whole it takes a while to grind for that one set and when that set gets nerfed oh dang now what. Now have to start over just to have a viable set to try and run endgame dps, or be considered for endgame dps.

Ermiq · February 2020

1. Bots are not invisible and they can't teleport in ESO. They wonder around just like real players do, the only difference is bots are running in circles along a certain pre-saved route. Sometimes when something goes wrong and they get away from the route, they get stuck trying to run through a tree or a rock, and they stay there running into the tree until the bot owner put them back to the route.
If you see no bots and nodes are empty, it most certainly means someone just have used them before your arrival. Sure, that could have been a bot, but most likely it was just a player.
Bots shouldn't ever be a part of any game. Saying that you say "let's make all macros, auto aiming and wall hacks legal".
Why nodes are shared instead of being individual to every player? I don't know. Probably because it bring at least a little player to player interactivity in the wildlands. Make them individual and ESO will feel even more anti social than it is now already.

2. You suggest to buff underperforming sets instead of nerfing the overperforming ones. "When one set is nerfed, everyone goes for another good set and you need to nerf this one now", you say. Well, I'll say "When you buff a set, everyone will go for this set and you'll need to buff all the other sets then, and after that you'll need to buff the first one again".
The thing is, you cannot get things balanced with either just nerfing or just buffing things. You need to do both. And it's not easy at all in RPGs. Never been easy and never will be, unless you dumb the whole stats system down to the ground. RPGs are complex games, and complexity brings balance issues.

It's not an elitism when someone explains you how things work and where you have been mistaken. Moreover, I could be wrong as well, and you're free to point me out where I am wrong.

idk · February 2020

TorqueGT wrote: »

Look I agree w ur post about the dps but it is expected that u have to hit that high number for dps for end game and I do not really have anything wrong to say about that. Why does it have to be just a few sets that are the mainstream it would be more w/o the nerfs.
People don’t want to be in these dungeons for 6hours, and want them to go as easy as possible.

As I agree when it comes to dps skill is better than sets but really I would like to see an end game player put on a bad set and pull the same numbers.

For a certain group of players and no this is not the whole it takes a while to grind for that one set and when that set gets nerfed oh dang now what. Now have to start over just to have a viable set to try and run endgame dps, or be considered for endgame dps.

There will always be a limited number of top sets for top DPS. It really comes down to math.

Your suggestion of wanting to see an end game player put on a bad set and pull the same number is absurd. The math would suggest the damage would be less. If a player was using what was good a year ago and cannot pull top numbers the gear is not the problem and that is what you are making it out to be.

What Turelus said is also spot on.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2020

TorqueGT wrote: »

As I agree when it comes to dps skill is better than sets but really I would like to see an end game player put on a bad set and pull the same numbers.

For a certain group of players and no this is not the whole it takes a while to grind for that one set and when that set gets nerfed oh dang now what. Now have to start over just to have a viable set to try and run endgame dps, or be considered for endgame dps.

There have been videos where players have used 'base game' and overland sets and still get some crazy numbers. They're not as high as BiS, but they're still going to be higher than the average player.

That's the player skill, not the gear they're wearing. If I'm mistaken about this, please link the sets that somehow magically double your DPS, because I've never found them?

I'm trying to understand your definition of endgame and endgame DPS? Unless you're going for some seriously high end achieves, you can do any content in this game with an assortment of setups, so long as your group is skilled enough.

I'd argue that if they are, acquiring sets is more of a technicality. No one likes to grind indefinitely and no one likes sets to change, get upgraded, and become obsolete. The truth is, they're never going to stop revamping sets, skills, classes, and mechanics. It's historically worse when new content comes out because their goal is always so sell said content. They generally do this by making one or more sets a must-have, either by making it more powerful than pre-existing sets, or by nerfing pre-existing sets to accommodate.

I'm also not sure what certain group of players you refer to. Unless you're after perfected gear or jewelry drops from certain content (requiring a hard mode version, +1, etc), there is no gear that is unobtainable by anyone willing to put forth the time and there are multiple alternatives if you aren't.

zaria · February 2020

idk wrote: »

I expected a post about game mechanics.
OP you are making an assumption that the lack of nodes to harvest is due to bots. Players harvest nodes as well. If the area you are farming has already been cleaned find a less populated area. Plenty to go around.

Nodes are and have always ben community wide. So if I harvest a node it should not be available to anyone else until it respawns. I like that idea better than making them personal and reducing the total number of nodes.

As for "nerfs", you returned in the middle of a major combat overhaul. Zos has been implementing a new combat design and will continue that for at least a few more updates. Yes, we are tired of it but Zos is still going to finish it.

Lots of nodes in the morning then I tend to quest or do surveys, all the nodes is quite distracting

Would makes sense that most bots are active at night then its less chance of getting reported and PC is idle anyway.
The bots I have seen has been XP farming overland running in circles chasing mobs in some areas like northern Greenshade.

TorqueGT · February 2020

Look this prob be my last post in this, should prob not have even made it.

If u look at my post I said player skill is first and I am sure there are players that can rock it way better w bad sets than others.

I am just going to agree w u about the nerf of sets, I still think it is annoying but should have not said anything bc no point. To be honest there have been sets that did not need to be nerfed I had one and the set still good but just not as good as it once was and that is when I took a break for a bit. To each his or her own about this. Agree that nerfing is part of the game, I think I said this bc it promotes playability of the game. I have been told this is just mmo way. So let’s just put that to the side bc oh well no need to keep arguing.

As far as bots well if it is not a problem and I thought it was sorry. I did see a post about it in another forum and they were arguing about the use of bots but ok. When I used to farm a specific route there was a lot of traffic but never did I see it where one or 2 particular nodes were always taken no matter what. But again if bots are not a problem then ok will take ur word for it.

idk · February 2020

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expected a post about game mechanics.
OP you are making an assumption that the lack of nodes to harvest is due to bots. Players harvest nodes as well. If the area you are farming has already been cleaned find a less populated area. Plenty to go around.

Nodes are and have always ben community wide. So if I harvest a node it should not be available to anyone else until it respawns. I like that idea better than making them personal and reducing the total number of nodes.

As for "nerfs", you returned in the middle of a major combat overhaul. Zos has been implementing a new combat design and will continue that for at least a few more updates. Yes, we are tired of it but Zos is still going to finish it.

Lots of nodes in the morning then I tend to quest or do surveys, all the nodes is quite distracting
Would makes sense that most bots are active at night then its less chance of getting reported and PC is idle anyway.
The bots I have seen has been XP farming overland running in circles chasing mobs in some areas like northern Greenshade.

Bots are plenty active during the day. Most of the time Zos does little to curb the bot issue.

But OP is just speculating that bots are the reason they are not seeing nodes. They are guessing and nothing more.

StormeReigns · February 2020

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expected a post about game mechanics.
OP you are making an assumption that the lack of nodes to harvest is due to bots. Players harvest nodes as well. If the area you are farming has already been cleaned find a less populated area. Plenty to go around.

Nodes are and have always ben community wide. So if I harvest a node it should not be available to anyone else until it respawns. I like that idea better than making them personal and reducing the total number of nodes.

As for "nerfs", you returned in the middle of a major combat overhaul. Zos has been implementing a new combat design and will continue that for at least a few more updates. Yes, we are tired of it but Zos is still going to finish it.

Lots of nodes in the morning then I tend to quest or do surveys, all the nodes is quite distracting
Would makes sense that most bots are active at night then its less chance of getting reported and PC is idle anyway.
The bots I have seen has been XP farming overland running in circles chasing mobs in some areas like northern Greenshade.

Bots are plenty active during the day. Most of the time Zos does little to curb the bot issue.

But OP is just speculating that bots are the reason they are not seeing nodes. They are guessing and nothing more.

When it comes to bots, most companies, like ZoS, ArenaNet and Blizzard often ban in waves. Some waves are often, once to twice a quarter, others times, twice a year.

As well, yeah, a blanket guessing of must be bots cause no nodes, is pretty foolish. Recently, in the starting zones, seen many throwing out and claiming other players as bots a lot. Probably new, unaware of cp bonuses and gear sets that increase movement speeds. Very vocal about it to claiming no features are there, and oftentimes seemingly stocking players they are claiming to be bots.

But that blanket seems to be more communal now than anything else now.

idk · February 2020

StormeReigns wrote: »

idk wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

idk wrote: »

I expected a post about game mechanics.
OP you are making an assumption that the lack of nodes to harvest is due to bots. Players harvest nodes as well. If the area you are farming has already been cleaned find a less populated area. Plenty to go around.

Nodes are and have always ben community wide. So if I harvest a node it should not be available to anyone else until it respawns. I like that idea better than making them personal and reducing the total number of nodes.

As for "nerfs", you returned in the middle of a major combat overhaul. Zos has been implementing a new combat design and will continue that for at least a few more updates. Yes, we are tired of it but Zos is still going to finish it.

Lots of nodes in the morning then I tend to quest or do surveys, all the nodes is quite distracting
Would makes sense that most bots are active at night then its less chance of getting reported and PC is idle anyway.
The bots I have seen has been XP farming overland running in circles chasing mobs in some areas like northern Greenshade.

Bots are plenty active during the day. Most of the time Zos does little to curb the bot issue.

But OP is just speculating that bots are the reason they are not seeing nodes. They are guessing and nothing more.

When it comes to bots, most companies, like ZoS, ArenaNet and Blizzard often ban in waves. Some waves are often, once to twice a quarter, others times, twice a year.

As well, yeah, a blanket guessing of must be bots cause no nodes, is pretty foolish. Recently, in the starting zones, seen many throwing out and claiming other players as bots a lot. Probably new, unaware of cp bonuses and gear sets that increase movement speeds. Very vocal about it to claiming no features are there, and oftentimes seemingly stocking players they are claiming to be bots.

But that blanket seems to be more communal now than anything else now.

We know Zos banns bots in waves and ignores them most of the time. That has been known for a while. It is a policy that gives botters mostly free reign. Without ongoing management of botts it pretty much encourages them and gives them free reight most of the time.

Kombinator · February 2020

Making a bot is incredibly difficult, and due game mechanics it's almost impossible to stop them.

For most professions simply making the materials going with your skill level would be enough to reduce bots efficiency. As they could only farm the lowest level stuff without risking a worthy account.

The exception is alchemy. Reagents are available from start, and certain ones worth a LOT. Not sure how that could be solved. Maybe making it, that the higher valuable reagents can only be gathered with enough skill level, or giving the reagents level too.

Raisin · February 2020

I also think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how bots work... If ZOS was able to identify bots efficiently enough to make them an ESO+ perk, it would be just as easy for them to ban them. The problem lies in the fact that finding and reporting bots is something only done by players, and ZOS' process of dealing with these reports is... partially just speculation, and mostly considered to be not the best. I know people that believe that when ZOS does ban them in a wave, they're good about it, but without any numbers regarding the topic we are left in the dark. And in the end that process still includes ZOS determining that the player that was reported is actually botting. Whether you agree with their methods or not, this means that a botter will be able to make quite a bit of progress before eventually being dealt with. That's just the system. Allowing botting as an ESO+ perk, aside from being a horrible pay2win idea, still rests on the concept of being able to find bots efficiently, so it's the same thing as ending it completely.

The concept of 'don't nerf a single OP set to be useless instead of buffing other sets to be useful' is a pretty popular and often-voiced opinion. It's a little more complicated of course, but connected to ESOs balancing issues. But I think I missed out on that part of the discussion with the edits and stuff.

bmnoble · February 2020

TorqueGT wrote: »

My opinion and hopeful changes:

1. First of all not sure how hard it is to code but nodes should be there no matter if another player took it. It should be for each individual and I know this can be done have seen it in other mmo. If that is impossible then maybe bots should be part of the game if they can’t be stoped and put into an eos plus perk. Yep that will *** the bot people off and those that like to see millions of gold in their inventory but really better for the whole.(Apparently this is not a problem- I saw another post in another forum about this but ok)-if not a problem then guess no need to change

If the nodes were there for everyone it would make things even easier for bots, since they would be able to gather mats at maximum efficiency on their set routes.

It would also allow player gathers in speed gear to gather large amounts of mats with perfect efficiency since they don't have to worry about anyone stealing the nodes they just have to time their routes with the nodes re-spawn cool-down in mind.

That would result in the market being flooded with mats and prices dropping like a rock, for raw mats, refined mats and even the upgrade materials, probably be a lot more furniture mats up on guild stores for awhile though.

Eventually though people will stop bothering until prices go back up, as they deem the gold value of the mats not worth spending hours running a route to farm mats, assuming the bots don't more or less take over the supply side of things on guild traders that is.

Kombinator wrote: »

Making a bot is incredibly difficult, and due game mechanics it's almost impossible to stop them.

For most professions simply making the materials going with your skill level would be enough to reduce bots efficiency. As they could only farm the lowest level stuff without risking a worthy account.

The exception is alchemy. Reagents are available from start, and certain ones worth a LOT. Not sure how that could be solved. Maybe making it, that the higher valuable reagents can only be gathered with enough skill level, or giving the reagents level too.

Both players and bots sell low level raw mats for good prices comparable to what max level mats are sold for, refining low level raw mats on a max level character with all the relevant crafting passives for that material, give you the same chance to get upgrade materials as max level mats.

The main difference is the market to buy them is slightly lower, as players who buy the max level mats recoup some of their costs by selling the refined mats as well as the upgrade mats, low level refined mats don't sell as high as max level ones, lowering the return on investment of refining bought mats.