Should all non ground targeted attacks be dodgeable and blockable?
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Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shadowasrial wrote: »
All classes have access to fear nowMotokoHutt wrote: »I think any direct damage attack whether it be conal, aoe or single target should be dodgeable, I think that fear should remain unblockable to counter tanking. Even if someone is dodge rolling backto back you canstill stun them by spamming your stun skill as there dodge frames end before the next roll initiates, I have done this plenty of times with dodgeable stuns to great effect, so roll spammer's are really not an issue in my opinion.
The Issue I find with Undodgeable attack's is they completely render an entire mechanic of the game pointless, those that suffer the most are gorilla warfare style player's such as nightblades that need that dodge to get away into stealth. Obviosly some classes take the undodgeable cake to the extreme such as Templar's were atleast 50% of there offensive toolkit is undodgeable allowing them to render Medium armor pointless.
People wonder why there is a meta for wearing heavy armor, but then they forget about simple thing's like dodge being forfit against many build's due to the overwhelming use of un-dodgeable attack's. So in Short awnser yes, I do think that most if not all skill's should be dodgeable and blockable.
1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
What about the classes that don't have a fear?
You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
Every class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
What skill is that then don't say the fighters guild one that costs stam!0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭MotokoHutt wrote: »
Lol 2 very good PvP'ers that are expert's at there classes can cause this to happen anyway, untill eventually 1 makes a mistake or gets fatigues and then a victory immerges.1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
Lol I guess someone has been ganked 1 to many times and is now butt sore about Nightblades.The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
There is a fear acessableto all from Fighter's guild you silly moo head, it's called Turn Evil.What about the classes that don't have a fear?
Actually I main a Mag DK, I have actually never played Nightblade in PvP ether mag or stam, I just have spoken to a good many Nightblade player's to hear there side of the story.You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
I sware everyone loves to doomsday preach, oh if X changes PvP will die, or if Y changes PvP will die. Actually being able to dodge roll group Hard CC's would make small group Cyro Fighter's job easier, and in regards to Zerglings, nothing will ever stop them from piling up and becoming a brainless train. Thats nothing to do with Dodging and blocking, its just to do with the fact the game doesnt disincentivize Zerging. And in regards to BG's are you mad sir? If you think the victor is who has the most undodgeable Hard CC's and attack's then you honestly have no clue.If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
You tell me that when some Hyper powered templar comes to rip you a new one and you can't dodge there jabby jab jab's and suddenly you get hit by a 10k backlash cus you couldnt cleanse. I am sure those dodges will do you fine when you get twocked over the head with a 10k+ Crescent Sweep lolEvery class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
O.k mag toon not effective to use turn evil so name a mag fear that is class wide! Moo head!
Only thing that annoys me about NB is cloak as it makes the class difficult to balance.
Depends what class im on, my Stamden deals with templars just fine but I struggle on my NB, would be a lot worse if I couldn't hit them back when they dodge roll my cc's and just heal.
Bottom line is you want to be able to DR everything and I think that's a bad idea, lets see what madness ZOS implements and we will play with that.0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »Strider__Roshin wrote: »Strider__Roshin wrote: »There needs to be a means to bypass every type of defense. Blocking has a decent amount of counters, healing used to have a lot but not as many anymore, damage shield counters are pretty much non-existent, and there's a ridiculous amount of counters to dodge rolling.
I support the OP's suggestion.
You haven't read the post!
Make EVERY attack dodgeable and blockable therefore removing counters.
Incorrect. The OP is suggesting to reduce the number of counters against dodge roll; not removing all of them entirely. There's a clear bias against dodge rolling in this game; and favoritism towards damage shields.
I misread that then, still... you are saying buff roll dodge and nerf shields?
The balance is weighted towards stam currently and you want to push it further with invuln dodge rollers?
Shields mean you can still be hit and cc'd and debuff'd etc.
DR with no counter or less means you are invuln.
Everyone will build dodge rollers and forward roll through everything, you know that right.
What exactly would you have still stop or interupt DR then?
There are too many counters to dodge rolling. It really pushes stamina users to use heavy armor. There are currently no counters to shields (except Oblivion damage, but that's a joke). I don't think there needs to be as many counters for damage shields as there are for dodge rolling or blocking since you have to slot a damage shield, but I think there should be just as many counters against damage shields as there are against healing.
CC and burst is the counter to shields, if you are saying healing is over tuned and needs sorting then I agree with that.0 -
NaomiHutt✭✭✭✭MotokoHutt wrote: »
Lol 2 very good PvP'ers that are expert's at there classes can cause this to happen anyway, untill eventually 1 makes a mistake or gets fatigues and then a victory immerges.1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
Lol I guess someone has been ganked 1 to many times and is now butt sore about Nightblades.The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
There is a fear acessableto all from Fighter's guild you silly moo head, it's called Turn Evil.What about the classes that don't have a fear?
Actually I main a Mag DK, I have actually never played Nightblade in PvP ether mag or stam, I just have spoken to a good many Nightblade player's to hear there side of the story.You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
I sware everyone loves to doomsday preach, oh if X changes PvP will die, or if Y changes PvP will die. Actually being able to dodge roll group Hard CC's would make small group Cyro Fighter's job easier, and in regards to Zerglings, nothing will ever stop them from piling up and becoming a brainless train. Thats nothing to do with Dodging and blocking, its just to do with the fact the game doesnt disincentivize Zerging. And in regards to BG's are you mad sir? If you think the victor is who has the most undodgeable Hard CC's and attack's then you honestly have no clue.If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
You tell me that when some Hyper powered templar comes to rip you a new one and you can't dodge there jabby jab jab's and suddenly you get hit by a 10k backlash cus you couldnt cleanse. I am sure those dodges will do you fine when you get twocked over the head with a 10k+ Crescent Sweep lolEvery class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
O.k mag toon not effective to use turn evil so name a mag fear that is class wide! Moo head!
Only thing that annoys me about NB is cloak as it makes the class difficult to balance.
Depends what class im on, my Stamden deals with templars just fine but I struggle on my NB, would be a lot worse if I couldn't hit them back when they dodge roll my cc's and just heal.
Bottom line is you want to be able to DR everything and I think that's a bad idea, lets see what madness ZOS implements and we will play with that.
That's not true I'm a magical class and I use turn evil and it works wonders, it's not like you plan to spam the skill over and over.
If you have under 10k stam, well then you're doing something wrong, you want a minimum of 12k stam on a magic class.
I currently have 15k and it's great as I can run for longer, dodge roll more often, break free more often and yes use the skill turn evil to fear people.Edited by NaomiHutt on February 8, 2020 11:56PM0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭MotokoHutt wrote: »
Lol 2 very good PvP'ers that are expert's at there classes can cause this to happen anyway, untill eventually 1 makes a mistake or gets fatigues and then a victory immerges.1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
Lol I guess someone has been ganked 1 to many times and is now butt sore about Nightblades.The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
There is a fear acessableto all from Fighter's guild you silly moo head, it's called Turn Evil.What about the classes that don't have a fear?
Actually I main a Mag DK, I have actually never played Nightblade in PvP ether mag or stam, I just have spoken to a good many Nightblade player's to hear there side of the story.You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
I sware everyone loves to doomsday preach, oh if X changes PvP will die, or if Y changes PvP will die. Actually being able to dodge roll group Hard CC's would make small group Cyro Fighter's job easier, and in regards to Zerglings, nothing will ever stop them from piling up and becoming a brainless train. Thats nothing to do with Dodging and blocking, its just to do with the fact the game doesnt disincentivize Zerging. And in regards to BG's are you mad sir? If you think the victor is who has the most undodgeable Hard CC's and attack's then you honestly have no clue.If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
You tell me that when some Hyper powered templar comes to rip you a new one and you can't dodge there jabby jab jab's and suddenly you get hit by a 10k backlash cus you couldnt cleanse. I am sure those dodges will do you fine when you get twocked over the head with a 10k+ Crescent Sweep lolEvery class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
O.k mag toon not effective to use turn evil so name a mag fear that is class wide! Moo head!
Only thing that annoys me about NB is cloak as it makes the class difficult to balance.
Depends what class im on, my Stamden deals with templars just fine but I struggle on my NB, would be a lot worse if I couldn't hit them back when they dodge roll my cc's and just heal.
Bottom line is you want to be able to DR everything and I think that's a bad idea, lets see what madness ZOS implements and we will play with that.
That's not true I'm a magical class and I use turn evil and it works wonders, it's not like you plan to spam the skill over and over.
If you have under 10k stam, well then you're doing something wrong, you want a minimum of 12k stam on a magic class.
I currently have 15k and it's great as I can run for longer, dodge roll more often, break free more often and yes use the skill turn evil to fear people.
Ok as a mag toon lets see you break free from petrify then dodegeroll then hit a turn evil with enough stam to then break free from the next petrify that is coming your way in 3 seconds.
I didn't say it wasn't useable I said its not effective as it drains a very important pool for mag toons, During a fight you may get to lay 1 or 2 down as you will be using stam pool to break free or DR. A stam toon will be able to lay down as and when.
With the needed removal of stun from the vamp drain mag toons are gonna struggle to use effective cc's unless sorc or dk, (I would put nb fear but magnb are not in a good place currently so it would be a bit rough to say they have an advantage.) Maybe templar toppling charge will be useable but it is glitchy to use and easy to break.
Also lately I seen people using volcanic rune in pvp and with good effect that maybe usable with practice I don't have much experience using that skill but will try it out.Edited by Stebarnz on February 9, 2020 6:43PM1 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Ok as a mag toon lets see you break free from petrify then dodegeroll then hit a turn evil with enough stam to then break free from the next petrify that is coming your way in 3 seconds.
I didn't say it wasn't useable I said its not effective as it drains a very important pool for mag toons, During a fight you may get to lay 1 or 2 down as you will be using stam pool to break free or DR. A stam toon will be able to lay down as and when.
With the needed removal of stun from the vamp drain mag toons are gonna struggle to use effective cc's unless sorc or dk, (I would put nb fear but magnb are not in a good place currently so it would be a bit rough to say they have an advantage.) Maybe templar toppling charge will be useable but it is glitchy to use and easy to break.
Also lately I seen people using volcanic rune in pvp and with good effect that maybe usable with practice I don't have much experience using that skill but will try it out.
If you're going fully defensive, you put yourself at a disadvantage. It is necessary to dodge/break free/cc to set up combos. if you think you can avoid someone going on the offensive against you, then you will waste too many resources and be unable to press the attack. That is assuming you survive the opponent's attack/cc combo.
On the other hand, sometimes you lose no matter how well you played. Often the other player simply outplays you. Sometimes it's lag, or other factors like being outnumbered, etc.0