Should all non ground targeted attacks be dodgeable and blockable?
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NaomiHutt
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As the title says, would you like to see all skills dodgeable and blockable other then ground targeted fields?
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Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The reason some aren't is to counter the infinite dodge roller or perma blocker.
If everything was then some build options would exist and rip.9 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭So you would be ok with someone you couldn't even hit rolling around or blocking around you and you don't have a counter then they stun and 1 shot you.
Medium armour isn't pointless as it does many things also you can dodge the majority of skills only a few can get through block and dodge that's why they are called counters.8 -
NaomiHutt✭✭✭✭The reason some aren't is to counter the infinite dodge roller or perma blocker.
If everything was then some build options would exist and rip.
But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.
Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.0 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭I think any direct damage attack whether it be conal, aoe or single target should be dodgeable, I think that fear should remain unblockable to counter tanking. Even if someone is dodge rolling backto back you canstill stun them by spamming your stun skill as there dodge frames end before the next roll initiates, I have done this plenty of times with dodgeable stuns to great effect, so roll spammer's are really not an issue in my opinion.
The Issue I find with Undodgeable attack's is they completely render an entire mechanic of the game pointless, those that suffer the most are gorilla warfare style player's such as nightblades that need that dodge to get away into stealth. Obviosly some classes take the undodgeable cake to the extreme such as Templar's were atleast 50% of there offensive toolkit is undodgeable allowing them to render Medium armor pointless.
People wonder why there is a meta for wearing heavy armor, but then they forget about simple thing's like dodge being forfit against many build's due to the overwhelming use of un-dodgeable attack's. So in Short awnser yes, I do think that most if not all skill's should be dodgeable and blockable.PC EU2 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭MotokoHutt wrote: »I think any direct damage attack whether it be conal, aoe or single target should be dodgeable, I think that fear should remain unblockable to counter tanking. Even if someone is dodge rolling backto back you canstill stun them by spamming your stun skill as there dodge frames end before the next roll initiates, I have done this plenty of times with dodgeable stuns to great effect, so roll spammer's are really not an issue in my opinion.
The Issue I find with Undodgeable attack's is they completely render an entire mechanic of the game pointless, those that suffer the most are gorilla warfare style player's such as nightblades that need that dodge to get away into stealth. Obviosly some classes take the undodgeable cake to the extreme such as Templar's were atleast 50% of there offensive toolkit is undodgeable allowing them to render Medium armor pointless.
People wonder why there is a meta for wearing heavy armor, but then they forget about simple thing's like dodge being forfit against many build's due to the overwhelming use of un-dodgeable attack's. So in Short awnser yes, I do think that most if not all skill's should be dodgeable and blockable.
1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
What about the classes that don't have a fear?
You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
Every class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.1 -
D3N7157✭✭✭✭
But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.
Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.
wow, do you run in 24mans by any chance?3 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
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But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.
Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.
With the right cp you do know you can set someone off balance with a dodge roll....right?4 -
NaomiHutt✭✭✭✭
1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
What about the classes that don't have a fear?
You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
Every class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
Well you are way off, she doesn't play Night Blade, she plays Dragon Knight currently.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
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But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.
Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.
Actually they are rolling away after they just hit you and you can't hit them back a lot of the time.
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
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But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.
Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.
Riiiiiiiiight.
Certainly doesn't improve your critical damage
or your stamina recovery and stam skill costs
or your weapon damage
or your movement speed
nothing here that can help a stam character
completely pointless
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Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭Don't forget, you can break free. There are other suggestions I can think of that can improve pvp with regards to cc/mechanics in pvp. I would rather Zos find other things to improve, rather than nerf things when they take action.- Reduce cost of Break Free
- Extend duration of CC Immunity after Break Free
- Buff potions/alchemy
- Buff the defensive morph of Guard to give 25% cc resistance (similar to evasion).
ESO is a game that has a risk vs. reward system. If you build to counter one thing, you risk being countered by something else.
P.S.The biggest barrier to skillful play in ESO is the game's performance when many people are in the same space duking it out. Server lag makes it hard to time counters (interrupts/dodging/blocking/etc.). Let us hope the upcoming 'redownload' thing that's coming will help with performance.1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭We need to stop requesting changes till they get the performance problems straightened out.
Too much on the plate. imho3 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There needs to be a means to bypass every type of defense. Blocking has a decent amount of counters, healing used to have a lot but not as many anymore, damage shield counters are pretty much non-existent, and there's a ridiculous amount of counters to dodge rolling.
I support the OP's suggestion.Edited by Strider__Roshin on February 7, 2020 9:19PM1 -
GlorphNoldorin✭✭✭✭✭Being able to roll dodge for ever is a problem in pvp but not being able to roll dodge aoe in pve has made some fights awkward for those on higher latency.
The server does not count you out of the aoe until the dodgeroll animation has completed.
It creates situations where due to latency on our screens we see we are out of an aoe but the server still counts us as in it. So we can die to aoe but do so in an area not touched by the aoe (on our screens).
(Scalecaller hm is a classic example)
I wish it were not so in pve but zos wont budge from trying to use battlespirit or modify pve differently from pvp.
It is a difficult issue as medium armour has no other real way to avoid damage. (shields aren't that great for light armour either) the whole armour balancing is a mess.Edited by GlorphNoldorin on February 7, 2020 9:59PM0 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »There needs to be a means to bypass every type of defense. Blocking has a decent amount of counters, healing used to have a lot but not as many anymore, damage shield counters are pretty much non-existent, and there's a ridiculous amount of counters to dodge rolling.
I support the OP's suggestion.
You haven't read the post!
Make EVERY attack dodgeable and blockable therefore removing counters.5 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wouldn't matter to me one way or another. This question only seems relevant for folks who do PvP. That said, when it comes to logic and immersion, being able to block/dodge certain abilities just doesn't make any sense. I prefer that the game make sense.0 -
Vicinia✭✭✭✭I played another MMO where at one point people could flop around like a fish, take no damage and could not be interrupted/countered. Yeah hard pass.0
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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You haven't read the post!
Make EVERY attack dodgeable and blockable therefore removing counters.
Incorrect. The OP is suggesting to reduce the number of counters against dodge roll; not removing all of them entirely. There's a clear bias against dodge rolling in this game; and favoritism towards damage shields.Edited by Strider__Roshin on February 7, 2020 10:51PM1 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭PSA: check the post history for these 2 before you become too attached to the thread.5 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »
Incorrect. The OP is suggesting to reduce the number of counters against dodge roll; not removing all of them entirely. There's a clear bias against dodge rolling in this game; and favoritism towards damage shields.
I misread that then, still... you are saying buff roll dodge and nerf shields?
The balance is weighted towards stam currently and you want to push it further with invuln dodge rollers?
Shields mean you can still be hit and cc'd and debuff'd etc.
DR with no counter or less means you are invuln.
Everyone will build dodge rollers and forward roll through everything, you know that right.
What exactly would you have still stop or interupt DR then?2 -
MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭
Lol 2 very good PvP'ers that are expert's at there classes can cause this to happen anyway, untill eventually 1 makes a mistake or gets fatigues and then a victory immerges.1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
Lol I guess someone has been ganked 1 to many times and is now butt sore about Nightblades.The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
There is a fear acessableto all from Fighter's guild you silly moo head, it's called Turn Evil.What about the classes that don't have a fear?
Actually I main a Mag DK, I have actually never played Nightblade in PvP ether mag or stam, I just have spoken to a good many Nightblade player's to hear there side of the story.You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
I sware everyone loves to doomsday preach, oh if X changes PvP will die, or if Y changes PvP will die. Actually being able to dodge roll group Hard CC's would make small group Cyro Fighter's job easier, and in regards to Zerglings, nothing will ever stop them from piling up and becoming a brainless train. Thats nothing to do with Dodging and blocking, its just to do with the fact the game doesnt disincentivize Zerging. And in regards to BG's are you mad sir? If you think the victor is who has the most undodgeable Hard CC's and attack's then you honestly have no clue.If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
You tell me that when some Hyper powered templar comes to rip you a new one and you can't dodge there jabby jab jab's and suddenly you get hit by a 10k backlash cus you couldnt cleanse. I am sure those dodges will do you fine when you get twocked over the head with a 10k+ Crescent Sweep lolEvery class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
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MotokoHutt✭✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »Riiiiiiiiight.
Certainly doesn't improve your critical damage
or your stamina recovery and stam skill costs
or your weapon damage
or your movement speed
nothing here that can help a stam character
completely pointless
Riiiiiiiiight.
Certainly high inpen player's don't make crit pointless
or your stamina recovery never being taxed cus you don't ever roll or block cus you can't
or your weapon damage being useless when your squishy
or your movement speed being pointless with the miriade of 50%+ snares in the game.
nothing here for sure
completely pointless Edited by MotokoHutt on February 8, 2020 1:57AMPC EU0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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I misread that then, still... you are saying buff roll dodge and nerf shields?
The balance is weighted towards stam currently and you want to push it further with invuln dodge rollers?
Shields mean you can still be hit and cc'd and debuff'd etc.
DR with no counter or less means you are invuln.
Everyone will build dodge rollers and forward roll through everything, you know that right.
What exactly would you have still stop or interupt DR then?
There are too many counters to dodge rolling. It really pushes stamina users to use heavy armor. There are currently no counters to shields (except Oblivion damage, but that's a joke). I don't think there needs to be as many counters for damage shields as there are for dodge rolling or blocking since you have to slot a damage shield, but I think there should be just as many counters against damage shields as there are against healing.0 -
Shadowasrial✭✭✭✭✭
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All classes have access to fear now
1v1's would never end. Even worse than current.
The day we change things to give cloaking NB's a chance is a big step backwards.
What about the classes that don't have a fear?
You clearly play NB! Stop being blinkered and think about every class mag and stam vs every class mag and stam from a rock paper scissors pov.
If everything was dodgeable and blockable then pvp would die! as nobody else would, Cyro would be even more zergy as small scale would be pointless and BG's would always go to 15 mins.
Every class has a skill that is unblockable and undodgeable to counter perma DR or perma block its needed!
I play medium and its far from pointless, I can get 32k resists and lots of impen with high damage. Heavy is a bit too easy currently so I only play heavy on stamden.
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boosting on the forums !! Now I have seen everything. 
