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Will shields remain useless?
IAVITNI
✭✭✭✭✭
Edit*** This is not a sorc thread. Shield builds should be a viable option on all light armour builds. Please note this does not mean BiS. But as things are, Rapid Regeneration or other reactive survival tools vastly outperform shield builds on light armor builds that were intentionally designed around proactive (shield based or Embers-like abilities)
Edit*** This is not a stam v magicka thread. When reading Vigor, please also keep in mind that Rapid Regeneration is essentially a pre-buff vigor that outperforms shields. So consider this a Shield v HoTs thread for magicka builds
Will shields be looked at this PTS?
Absolutely useless this patch for PvP.
Considering the healing amp that classes got across the board the shield nerfs are outdated. If I wanted to rely on reactive HoTs I would play stamina. Actually that is what I do because shields are horrid and the whole point of magicka proactive defence has been gutted since any shield based build no longer functions.
If healing isn't addressed just revert either the cost increase or size reduction. As things are now Dampen costs close to 4k magicka for a ~+7k shield with ~+40 max meanwhile Vigor heals for 20k and costs 3k stamina.
If healing is addressed then standardize shields accordingly. At the very least align shield costs to the standard. IIRC magicka abilities tend to cost 25% more than stamina. Base Annulment is 4.5k while vigor is 2.9k.
The size is also misaligned. Dampen should be at least around 10k on the average build the same way 20k vigor is average for stamina. Vigor can easily reach 25k-30k depending on load out and class and none of those builds are attempting to build for it.
This isn't a nerf vigor thread. Bring back Vigor's ability to heal another ally but limit it to 1 person. Healing Ward can be used to heal allies. Since Vigor has a shorter range and healed for a less than the user the ability should always heal the caster and up to 1 ally.
Edited by IAVITNI on February 12, 2020 5:41AM Edit*** This is not a stam v magicka thread. When reading Vigor, please also keep in mind that Rapid Regeneration is essentially a pre-buff vigor that outperforms shields. So consider this a Shield v HoTs thread for magicka builds
Will shields be looked at this PTS?
Absolutely useless this patch for PvP.
Considering the healing amp that classes got across the board the shield nerfs are outdated. If I wanted to rely on reactive HoTs I would play stamina. Actually that is what I do because shields are horrid and the whole point of magicka proactive defence has been gutted since any shield based build no longer functions.
If healing isn't addressed just revert either the cost increase or size reduction. As things are now Dampen costs close to 4k magicka for a ~+7k shield with ~+40 max meanwhile Vigor heals for 20k and costs 3k stamina.
If healing is addressed then standardize shields accordingly. At the very least align shield costs to the standard. IIRC magicka abilities tend to cost 25% more than stamina. Base Annulment is 4.5k while vigor is 2.9k.
The size is also misaligned. Dampen should be at least around 10k on the average build the same way 20k vigor is average for stamina. Vigor can easily reach 25k-30k depending on load out and class and none of those builds are attempting to build for it.
This isn't a nerf vigor thread. Bring back Vigor's ability to heal another ally but limit it to 1 person. Healing Ward can be used to heal allies. Since Vigor has a shorter range and healed for a less than the user the ability should always heal the caster and up to 1 ally.
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olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The amount of passive and active healing atm is contributing to this tankmeta just as much as the high norm of mitigation atm. Id love for a less tanky meta overall, specificly heavy armor stambuilds.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭You do know battle spirit also cuts healing in half yes, 50% reduction same as shields?
But I do agree shield feel underwelming and maybe they need some love. I would be good that some magica based playstyle across multiple classes gets some attention to make magica overall better as I prefer mag but only play stamina this patch magica feels so weak in multiple ways.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only0 -
iaminc✭✭✭✭Definitely think mag PvP builds would benefit from the shields being addressed , would be nice to not have to run a resto back bar again.3
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BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭+1
Magicka defense currently sucks. Shields are expensive, but destroyed by just one attack.
Stamina defense currently is extremely strong - some Stam builds are almost invulnerable.
It also sucks that most Magicka builds have to wear a Resto staff because shields are so crippled,
while Stamina builds just can slot Vigor. With crippled shields, can we at least get a Magicka Vigor morph please?
Edited by BalticBlues on February 6, 2020 9:56AM4 -
Mickey✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »+1
Magicka defense currently sucks. Shields are expensive, but destroyed by just one attack.
Stamina defense currently is extremely strong - some Stam builds are almost invulnerable.
It also sucks that most Magicka builds have to wear a Resto staff because shields are so crippled,
while Stamina builds just can slot Vigor. With crippled shields, can we at least get a Magicka Vigor morph please?
A replica for magicka vigor would be over the top.
Maybe 1k heal per second over 10 seconds for other morph could be reasonable. Global access to strong HoTs would make particular classes over the top.
I want ZOS to buff bastion to cap at 40% maybe.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They never revert old nerfs.
Something gets sledgehammered and remains this way even if times have changed.
I am deeply scared of what they are capable of.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos6 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭You do know battle spirit also cuts healing in half yes, 50% reduction same as shields?
But I do agree shield feel underwelming and maybe they need some love. I would be good that some magica based playstyle across multiple classes gets some attention to make magica overall better as I prefer mag but only play stamina this patch magica feels so weak in multiple ways.
Was going based off tooltip values I actually achieve in game in PvP. Shield tooltips are updated in PvP but I don't believe Vigor is so that is an oversight on my part.
Even if Vigor's effective tt in PvP is halved it can still crit, meaning it has a potential of 15k healing before CP. It also benefits from 3 stars; Blessed, Precise Strikes and Quick Recovery. Meanwhile shields have Bastion.
(Both are affected by mitigation CP)
As you said shields are underwhelming, vigor:- crit
- gets you out of execute
- benefits from block
- Is easily paired with burst heals (that also cost less than shields and still get you out of execute. All while offering significant utility [Rally & shrooms])
Shields:- inflate health bars
- are immune to defile but in turn cannot be amped by any % modifiers whereas healing has 4 from Major/Minor buffs alone
That's it. All the other strengths of shields have been removed. Shields used to:- prevent elemental status effects
- ignore pen/armor stats
- be immune to crit
All the strengths of shields have been removed. They don't even benefit from block but still drain stamina.
Just asking for some parity and to standardize shields. They have none of the benefits that traditional healing has and besides inflating health they have no actual benefit.
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Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have not slotted a single shield, and all my mag chars use light armor, since shields started gaining effectiveness with resistance. I don't miss them because blocking and rolling are superior in every single way.0 -
Mickey✭✭✭I have not slotted a single shield, and all my mag chars use light armor, since shields started gaining effectiveness with resistance. I don't miss them because blocking and rolling are superior in every single way.
This concerns mostly sorcerers, don't start saying a no shield sorcerer would work because, for example, a Mag DK can compete without using shields.
It is objective that shields as a main defense is too expensive and give little in size return when used even with a high magicka pool.3 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All the strengths of shields have been removed.I have not slotted a single shield [...] since shields started gaining effectiveness with resistance.
Correct. Shields were nerfed on just too many things at once.
1. Shield do not prevent elemental status effects anymore.
2. Shields now depend on armor stats.
3. Shields now can be damaged by crit.
4. Shields now are only half as strong as before.
As a consequence, shields pretty much DIED.
Pretty much the same way Iceheart would die by nerfing too many things at once.
ZOS, please make the expensive shields useful again.
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KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
Edited by KillsAllElves on February 8, 2020 4:41AM3 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
You're kidding right, curse and wrath are purge able, frag is the slowest projectile in the game, mages wrath is painfully slow, our shields unless stacked are worthless, unless you use a pet your limited to dark deal which is interruptible, we are shoehorned into light because we need max mag, which doesn't effect dark deal, yes we have steak, but any competent player will just gap close the streak. Mag sorc is in no way shape or from still op. Imagine if our shield snares ppl when we got hit, or our frags healed us. Seriously.11 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
And what high defenses? Shields? They are based off of armor rating, and when in light and stacking mag, you can't up your armor rating too much.2 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
You're kidding right, curse and wrath are purge able, frag is the slowest projectile in the game, mages wrath is painfully slow, our shields unless stacked are worthless, unless you use a pet your limited to dark deal which is interruptible, we are shoehorned into light because we need max mag, which doesn't effect dark deal, yes we have steak, but any competent player will just gap close the streak. Mag sorc is in no way shape or from still op. Imagine if our shield snares ppl when we got hit, or our frags healed us. Seriously.
Curse and wrath were always purgeable frim what i remember. and so they should be like, mark target or power of the light. I dont think i ever seen some one complain about curse being purgable until now.
I have no problem hitting players with my frags but then againg im not the zergling spamming my frag buttons at 1 player.
We always stacked shields! Pair this with twilight i nuke groups.
We always ran light armor. Nothing changed there.
I forgot to mention we have CC abilities, if youre being hit by gap closers-kill the player.
I seen your other posts about sorcerer, theres a learn to play issue at hand.
Shield stacking and streak are defensive abilities.
I always stacked shields on my mag blade aswell.
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
You're kidding right, curse and wrath are purge able, frag is the slowest projectile in the game, mages wrath is painfully slow, our shields unless stacked are worthless, unless you use a pet your limited to dark deal which is interruptible, we are shoehorned into light because we need max mag, which doesn't effect dark deal, yes we have steak, but any competent player will just gap close the streak. Mag sorc is in no way shape or from still op. Imagine if our shield snares ppl when we got hit, or our frags healed us. Seriously.
Curse and wrath were always purgeable frim what i remember. and so they should be like, mark target or power of the light. I dont think i ever seen some one complain about curse being purgable until now.
I have no problem hitting players with my frags but then againg im not the zergling spamming my frag buttons at 1 player.
We always stacked shields! Pair this with twilight i nuke groups.
We always ran light armor. Nothing changed there.
I forgot to mention we have CC abilities, if youre being hit by gap closers-kill the player.
I seen your other posts about sorcerer, theres a learn to play issue at hand.
Shield stacking and streak are defensive abilities.
I always stacked shields on my mag blade aswell.
Regardless if you spam or not people dodge frags, wrath, and the pitifully slow overload light attacks like they were flying sloths. And who spams crystal frags, unless it's desynced and laggy and the game goes into auto mode. Also, not everyone uses pets. I stack my shields atm and I blew 8 k magicka to absorb 1 maybe two hits since they are so weak. Even with fully stacked magicka.
Rune cage is a joke cuz it has an activation time.
Kinda hard to avoid templars gap closer when it holds you in spot on activation.
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Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭You do know battle spirit also cuts healing in half yes, 50% reduction same as shields?
But I do agree shield feel underwelming and maybe they need some love. I would be good that some magica based playstyle across multiple classes gets some attention to make magica overall better as I prefer mag but only play stamina this patch magica feels so weak in multiple ways.
Was going based off tooltip values I actually achieve in game in PvP. Shield tooltips are updated in PvP but I don't believe Vigor is so that is an oversight on my part.
Even if Vigor's effective tt in PvP is halved it can still crit, meaning it has a potential of 15k healing before CP. It also benefits from 3 stars; Blessed, Precise Strikes and Quick Recovery. Meanwhile shields have Bastion.
(Both are affected by mitigation CP)
As you said shields are underwhelming, vigor:- crit
- gets you out of execute
- benefits from block
- Is easily paired with burst heals (that also cost less than shields and still get you out of execute. All while offering significant utility [Rally & shrooms])
Shields:- inflate health bars
- are immune to defile but in turn cannot be amped by any % modifiers whereas healing has 4 from Major/Minor buffs alone
That's it. All the other strengths of shields have been removed. Shields used to:- prevent elemental status effects
- ignore pen/armor stats
- be immune to crit
All the strengths of shields have been removed. They don't even benefit from block but still drain stamina.
Just asking for some parity and to standardize shields. They have none of the benefits that traditional healing has and besides inflating health they have no actual benefit.
Shields gain your resistences fyi.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shields costs should be brought down a little, Maybe by 10%.
Since they have such a short duration it should be subtley less expensive than healing.0 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shields costs should be brought down a little, Maybe by 10%.
Since they have such a short duration it should be subtley less expensive than healing.
Either that or bring the duration back up a bit. I think 8-10 seconds would be a good spot.Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.3 -
KillsAllElves✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »KillsAllElves wrote: »And people still say mag sorcs are op. Lmao.
We are OP.
The amount off damage mag sorc can put out in a short amount of time is staggering to this further even more we do it at range, this advantage with streak allows the mag sorc to be untouched by melee range players. The mag sorcerer still has high defensive capilities.
Fast damage, the best mobility, self returning resources and high defenses- So i can understand why players have complained so much about sorcerers over the years.
You're kidding right, curse and wrath are purge able, frag is the slowest projectile in the game, mages wrath is painfully slow, our shields unless stacked are worthless, unless you use a pet your limited to dark deal which is interruptible, we are shoehorned into light because we need max mag, which doesn't effect dark deal, yes we have steak, but any competent player will just gap close the streak. Mag sorc is in no way shape or from still op. Imagine if our shield snares ppl when we got hit, or our frags healed us. Seriously.
Curse and wrath were always purgeable frim what i remember. and so they should be like, mark target or power of the light. I dont think i ever seen some one complain about curse being purgable until now.
I have no problem hitting players with my frags but then againg im not the zergling spamming my frag buttons at 1 player.
We always stacked shields! Pair this with twilight i nuke groups.
We always ran light armor. Nothing changed there.
I forgot to mention we have CC abilities, if youre being hit by gap closers-kill the player.
I seen your other posts about sorcerer, theres a learn to play issue at hand.
Shield stacking and streak are defensive abilities.
I always stacked shields on my mag blade aswell.
Regardless if you spam or not people dodge frags, wrath, and the pitifully slow overload light attacks like they were flying sloths. And who spams crystal frags, unless it's desynced and laggy and the game goes into auto mode. Also, not everyone uses pets. I stack my shields atm and I blew 8 k magicka to absorb 1 maybe two hits since they are so weak. Even with fully stacked magicka.
Rune cage is a joke cuz it has an activation time.
Kinda hard to avoid templars gap closer when it holds you in spot on activation.
🤣🤣🤣The moment you bring up mag plar in a mag sorc discussion, shows you need to learn to adapt to changes thus learning to play.
Youtube can be a usefull tool if you need help on playing a sorcerer.
magplars are sitting ducks waiting to be nuked! When playing mag sorc >>>DONT GO INTO MELEE RANGE<<<... I dont know why this is so hard for players to understand. Its easy to control the fight while playing mag sorc. If youre in range of toppling charge - go play another class. This is a zergling mentality.
Edited by KillsAllElves on February 8, 2020 6:14AM6 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've missed the memo what's changing with Wards?Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Mickey✭✭✭Streak and current shields are not enough.
Streak took a big hit last patch because of the cone area it covers in terms of the damage and stun, making it very frustrating and unreliable when used.
Hardened ward, the class identity skill was changed to be more in line with the other shields as well whilst a simultaneous nerf happens to the global shields?!? 3.7k Mag that becomes redundant since almost every class has a skill that can 1 shot crit the shield away.
Remember the traditional sorc builds of medium regen, 42k Mag, and high spell damage. GOOD LUCK using that in 2020. You need 60k Mag and a vast point distribution into bastion to reach a 15k shield, and it doesn't feel like it provides any use. Contrast a 15k shield in 2020 to a 15k shield I used in 2018 it is night and day.1 -
Major_Lag✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I actually use Empowered Ward on my magsorc in PvP...I like my shield, in pve
...but only when running in a group, and even then only for the 10s Minor Intellect group buff - because that's the only thing it's good for; the shield itself is so tiny that it gets deleted in a single hit from just about anything
Group buffs aside, shields are officially completely useless unless you build heavily into using them - and even then, their utility is questionable at best.1 -
Mickey✭✭✭
I actually use Empowered Ward on my magsorc in PvP...I like my shield, in pve
...but only when running in a group, and even then only for the 10s Minor Intellect group buff - because that's the only thing it's good for; the shield itself is so tiny that it gets deleted in a single hit from just about anything
Group buffs aside, shields are officially completely useless unless you build heavily into using them - and even then, their utility is questionable at best.
I wish I had the balls to use empowered ward, but my god is it such a small shield on its own.1 -
D3N7157✭✭✭✭Nope, shields are good as they should be they offer strenght comparable to burst heal ability my sorc has a 12k hardened ward i can get nowhere near that heal on my magplar for example unless it crits when it doesnt its actually half that,
to me it seems u have L2P and keep your shields up when its not time to go offensve issue
smh my head2 -
Mickey✭✭✭Nope, shields are good as they should be they offer strenght comparable to burst heal ability my sorc has a 12k hardened ward i can get nowhere near that heal on my magplar for example unless it crits when it doesnt its actually half that,
to me it seems u have L2P and keep your shields up when its not time to go offensve issue
smh my head
Shields are a health substitute and do not act like other defenses, a 12k hardened ward at 10% health will not save you from a bulk standard Stam 2h build using executioner.
3.7k that you would most likely on average have to cast every 3-4 seconds. Honor the Dead can definitely reach in the 10k+ region and get you out of that execute range. Just look at the amount of ways you can buff breaks compared to shields. I tried a build for magplar on pts and got 20k honor the deads. Simply slot that trial staff, healing ward, resto heavy = GG 2 ez. With the magicka gained back after healing it is not a fair comparison to hardened ward... It is vastly superior.
Throwing the l2p card without seeing anyone is play a shield based build is highly ignorant... Trust me.5 -
D3N7157✭✭✭✭sorceres have been playing this way for ages and still are with great sucess, are you aware of sizes healing ward can reach when you are at 10% hp? if you expect shields to do all the work without any HOT or burst heal ability its not going to work,
shield, streak, conversion is as strong as ever in my opinion, you can stack 2 shields that will be 24k easily and then healing ward another 15k on top i have no idea why are you complaining, and you can have 20k resistances with zero effort on top of that. i just fail to see the issue here nobody if forbidding you to use snb and hold block in such situation either you know, best while streaking away.....2 -
Mickey✭✭✭sorceres have been playing this way for ages and still are with great sucess, are you aware of sizes healing ward can reach when you are at 10% hp? if you expect shields to do all the work without any HOT or burst heal ability its not going to work,
shield, streak, conversion is as strong as ever in my opinion, you can stack 2 shields that will be 24k easily and then healing ward another 15k on top i have no idea why are you complaining, and you can have 20k resistances with zero effort on top of that. i just fail to see the issue here nobody if forbidding you to use snb and hold block in such situation either you know, best while streaking away.....
Healing ward.... In its most irrelevant state without use of trial staves. And I highly doubt it gives up to 15k sizes...
You seriously think shields and Streak is as strong as ever? I agree that dark convert is at its peak but streak used to go through block and didn't have a cool down 4 years ago... Shields were vastly superior in any prior patch, remember no battles spirit...
So you think sorcs complaining right now need to use 3 shields with snb, use of hots and burst heals to stay at 'pinnacle' state. This is adding up to 5 additional things I am not doing now that I cannot sacrifice if I want to compete at my current level 🙄
Smh my head...0 -
Mickey✭✭✭Btw where are you getting 20k resistances from XD... You must have an 11k frag tooltip.2