Can someone from ZOS please explain to me why you've decided to completely ruin Nightblades?

Langeston · February 2020

I'm not going to go into detail regarding the endless stream of nerfs Nightblades have sustained, or how you've taken unique NB skills and given improved versions of them to other (in some cases all) classes, or how you took away buffs from NBs because they were supposedly OP only to give them to other classes, or how you added cast times to NB ultimates but not to other classes', or how other classes have received buffs while NBs are completely ignored — you are fully aware of everything you have done. I just want to know why.

I can only think of three reasons that you would allow one class to be so woefully underpowered compared to every other:
a) you're not even aware that this is the case,
b) you are aware but just don't care, or
c) you want the class to be this weak.
I find A to be unlikely, and B wouldn't make sense because you're always tinkering with the balance of the game, so I am going to assume it is C — so can someone please explain the rationale behind it?

I have been waiting for months now for you to realize your mistake and fix it, the whole time spending money on ESO+ and updates. Unfortunately I cannot justify continuing to do this anymore, as you appear to not care in the least that the class is this broken and have shown no signs of intending to fix it — and I don't feel like I should have to completely change classes just to enjoy the game.

Even an acknowledgement that you are aware of the problem would be a [tiny] step in the right direction, but you haven't even given us that. I don't really expect anyone to respond to this, but since I am a paying customer it would be very nice if someone did.
Best regards

[edit] I should note that this post is coming from the perspective of a magblade PVPer that plays mainly in BGs. I can't say from experience how they perform in PVE anymore — from what I understand they still underperform just not nearly as badly as in PVP.

price101610 · February 2020

With all the nightblade threads lately, I’m guessing a lot of players that took a few months off from the game are coming back to see that other classes exist and the nightblade meta has passed. For PVE Stam is def tough, but in good hands still capable of decent damage. Magblade is damn strong, can buff group with MA, and a lot of trial guilds are actively recruiting them. For pvp, they still gank better than any other class. I love my nightblade and would love to see buffs, but I don’t understand where all this doom and gloom is coming from all of a sudden. It’s nice seeing raid comps that have more than just sorcs and stamblades.

Iskiab · February 2020

price101610 wrote: »

With all the nightblade threads lately, I’m guessing a lot of players that took a few months off from the game are coming back to see that other classes exist and the nightblade meta has passed. For PVE Stam is def tough, but in good hands still capable of decent damage. Magblade is damn strong, can buff group with MA, and a lot of trial guilds are actively recruiting them. For pvp, they still gank better than any other class. I love my nightblade and would love to see buffs, but I don’t understand where all this doom and gloom is coming from all of a sudden. It’s nice seeing raid comps that have more than just sorcs and stamblades.

It’s moreso from a pvp perspective.

Reyleigh · February 2020

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

x48rph · February 2020

price101610 wrote: »

With all the nightblade threads lately, I’m guessing a lot of players that took a few months off from the game are coming back to see that other classes exist and the nightblade meta has passed. For PVE Stam is def tough, but in good hands still capable of decent damage. Magblade is damn strong, can buff group with MA, and a lot of trial guilds are actively recruiting them. For pvp, they still gank better than any other class. I love my nightblade and would love to see buffs, but I don’t understand where all this doom and gloom is coming from all of a sudden. It’s nice seeing raid comps that have more than just sorcs and stamblades.

It's nothing to do with being the top , but you used to be able to do so much more on a nightblade then just gank and honestly, they aren't even good at that anymore. Everything in their tool kit that made them good got nerfed. Pretty sure you could gank harder on a couple other classes just by using an invis potion.

butterrum222 · February 2020

Night blades where too good, they had to be punished, still the best class for solo pvp imo

nesakinter · February 2020

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

@Reyleigh While the class is good for soloing in Cyro and farming noobs i.e. 1vX, it is a weak class when fighting seasoned players and can not face up against someone with the same skill level head to head, especially on tanky classes like stamden, stamcro, stamdk and magplar as it does not have the offensive kit to finish them off fast enough.

Langeston · February 2020

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

I'm sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about. I play magblade, and unless I'm on one of my toons that has a lower MMR, I'm literally the only nightblade in probably half of the BGs I play in. If NBs were "OP" like you say, that wouldn't be the case — good players in high MMR BGs wouldn't avoid them like the plague (as they do now.)

Sure, they are competitive against average to below average players, but anyone that plays the class knows that there's a glass ceiling relative to other classes that no amount of skill can overcome.

price101610 · February 2020

I see the problem being overtuned HoTs for pvp. Since i mostly do PVE I would hate to see heals nerfed, but I’d rather go back to the dot meta than this bs tank meta.

xXMeowMeowXx · February 2020

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

Agreed ^ nightblades need some buffs. I am however a bit perplexed by people claiming they are so bad when they are not.

My first character was a magblade and my second character was a stamblade. They are both still playing strong in Cyro. The only difference is there are a lot of bad nbs playing rn. I love it that NBs are no longer a casual class, as @Mayrael put it once.

Keep updated with your class. Make sure to play with good PvPers and learn from them. Being social and being known in PvP by your fellow players and with other dueling peeps helps a lot too !! If you put the time into the class learning it in depth it is worth it.

I do mean this in a good way OP.

Soooooo get out of your depressed state and go see for yourself....Cx

Good Luck

Langeston · February 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

Agreed ^ nightblades need some buffs. I am however a bit perplexed by people claiming they are so bad when they are not.

My first character was a magblade and my second character was a stamblade. They are both still playing strong in Cyro. The only difference is there are a lot of bad nbs playing rn. I love it that NBs are no longer a casual class, as @Mayrael put it once.

Keep updated with your class. Make sure to play with good PvPers and learn from them. Being social and being known in PvP by your fellow players and with other dueling peeps helps a lot too !! If you put the time into the class learning it in depth it is worth it.

I do mean this in a good way OP.

Soooooo get out of your depressed state and go see for yourself....Cx

Good Luck

I'm sure they do just fine in Cyrodiil zergs, but that's not my bag. If you're on PC NA, hop on your magblade & we can group up & do some BGs together. You can show me how "OP" they are.

xXMeowMeowXx · February 2020

Langeston wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

Agreed ^ nightblades need some buffs. I am however a bit perplexed by people claiming they are so bad when they are not.

My first character was a magblade and my second character was a stamblade. They are both still playing strong in Cyro. The only difference is there are a lot of bad nbs playing rn. I love it that NBs are no longer a casual class, as @Mayrael put it once.

Keep updated with your class. Make sure to play with good PvPers and learn from them. Being social and being known in PvP by your fellow players and with other dueling peeps helps a lot too !! If you put the time into the class learning it in depth it is worth it.

I do mean this in a good way OP.

Soooooo get out of your depressed state and go see for yourself....Cx

Good Luck

I'm sure they do just fine in Cyrodiil zergs, but that's not my bag. If you're on PC NA, hop on your magblade & we can group up & do some BGs together. You can show me how "OP" they are.

I play solo or with two others.

If you’re not doing well that is on you. Then just complain on a forum that has other NBs that have no issue soloing such as myself. You then will end up staying where you are right now with your skill level and mind set GG

This line I do mean this in a good way OP. OP means original poster

FierceSam · February 2020

From my perspective Nightblades are the most subtle and complex of the classes. Very easy to play badly and very hard to play well. I have to put way more thought and practice into making my NBs work.

The best PvPers I know play them through choice and spend their time rolling up obscene amounts of AP, so while I might find them hard to play, they’re definitely not useless or nerfed in comparison with other classes.

I would imagine that DKs, which are highly enjoyable and easier to play, will be way more popular, but a whole load of people choosing to play DK doesn’t mean all the other classes are rubbish.

Personally I think it’s great (and highly desirable) that no one class is OP. OP should be about a player’s skill and understanding rather than class or build. A great players should be able to take any class and succeed with it if they apply themselves.

Shanehere · February 2020

I always considered "fear" to be a nightblade only aesthetic (werewolves are also allowed), when they made that fighter's guild skill I was shaking my head.

As far as open world PvP though, Nightblade is still quite good in what the identity of the class is: quick, tricky, hyperactive gameplay with good burst and finesse. All about picking the right target, getting in and getting out, etc.

In terms of BGs, you are right in saying that there are hardly any nightblades, because the way BGs are set up takes away a lot of what nightblade is known to be good at, ESPECIALLY in higher MMRs, which often end up being 3-way group fights with tons of roots and stuns and AoE damage and ult dumps... a nightblade would get absolutely obliterated. I don't really remember a time where any Nightblades excelled in higher MMR, except for a very select few of players. On the other side of the table it's also why Wardens and Necros shine in those environments because their class identities are very group oriented and provide tons of utility to others in comparison to a traditional nightblade.

Norgh · February 2020

I can only speak from a PVE point of view, but I am happy with my Nightblade.

Saelent · February 2020

If nightblades are ruined, can vampires have shadow cloak? I really want my necromancer thief to be able to turn invisible.

Tommy_The_Gun · February 2020

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTP1WSIUZhs
2:00 min - current problem some people have on forums, explained pretty well by El Lobo, during chat with Isth3reno1else.

Also 2 other videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8q-W0BsD6s
(all credit to Isth3reno1else)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vGf9ce9Hus
(all credit to Kristofer ESO)

I honestly doubt that 3 independent content creators that know the game well and they PvP a lot, somehow conspired to make NB (both mag & stam) look bad on on purpose, compared to other classes...

Sorry, but this is simply how things are. ZOS was too heavy handed on NB nerfs last year (WW nerfs too btw.), don't deny it, even non NB mains see that lol.

Qbiken · February 2020

Nightblade has the dmg, but can't land it reliably due to cast times (incap/soulharvest) and the minimum travel time on the bow proc. Remove the cast time on incap/soulharvest is a must at this point.

godagarah5000 · February 2020

maybe they'll be secretly adding a blood mage class with the greymoor chapter ;P

Langeston · February 2020

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

Agreed ^ nightblades need some buffs. I am however a bit perplexed by people claiming they are so bad when they are not.

My first character was a magblade and my second character was a stamblade. They are both still playing strong in Cyro. The only difference is there are a lot of bad nbs playing rn. I love it that NBs are no longer a casual class, as @Mayrael put it once.

Keep updated with your class. Make sure to play with good PvPers and learn from them. Being social and being known in PvP by your fellow players and with other dueling peeps helps a lot too !! If you put the time into the class learning it in depth it is worth it.

I do mean this in a good way OP.

Soooooo get out of your depressed state and go see for yourself....Cx

Good Luck

I'm sure they do just fine in Cyrodiil zergs, but that's not my bag. If you're on PC NA, hop on your magblade & we can group up & do some BGs together. You can show me how "OP" they are.

I play solo or with two others.

Well then your comment isn't particularly relevant or helpful. As I said, I mostly play in BGs — and in higher MMR BGs Nightblades are garbage (especially Magblades.)

If you’re not doing well that is on you. Then just complain on a forum that has other NBs that have no issue soloing such as myself.

1. I never said I don't do well, I said Nightblades are the weakest class. No one who knows what they're talking about disputes this.

2. Again, the fact that you "have no issue soloing" is irrelevant.

You then will end up staying where you are right now with your skill level and mind set GG

You have no clue what my skill level is. Like I said, let's queue for some BGs together and you can find out. Based on your perception of the class, I doubt you play in many high MMR BGs — if you queue with me you will, and I guarantee you'll see things differently. As far as my "mindset," I just want ZOS to fix what they broke.

This line I do mean this in a good way OP. OP means original poster

I know — I am the OP. You said you agreed with the post you were responding to, and that person said "...the class is OP..." My comment was referring to that.

Ysbriel · February 2020

At this moment we can do an episode of Where are they now?: Nightblades

oregonrob · February 2020

As a solo PVE player, I find templars and sorcerers to be the two classes I tend to play the most, though warden recently has entered the mix. I do however also play the other three classes in order to look at alternative ways of challenging the game. Yes Nightblade is not as buffed as others so in certain situations like soloing a dungeon it would not be my first choice. But it is fun to play. If each class was perfectly balanced against every other class, then basically, it would not matter which class one chose. What I like about the current nightblade is that it gives me a challenge when facing certain aspects of the game. Yes I can smoke it with a templar or sorcerer but when I beat that challenge with a nightblade I know I have beat the nerf on it. The game changes and that helps keep it interesting. When the next nerf comes out, I will try and find ways to beat it as well because I like new challenges.

MJallday · February 2020

don't think of it as nerfing nightblades, think of it as buffing everything else

Iskiab · February 2020

I always find the replies to NB complaint threads funny:

‘They’re difficult to play but powerful’
Translation:
I’ve never played one but have been outplayed by one who killed me, so it must be an okay class to keep my ego intact

‘They have cloak’
Translation:
I’m too lazy to run detect pots

‘NBs have good burst’
Translation:
I don’t play often and am stuck in 2018.

It’s definitely weaker than other classes, but it’s not unplayable. I’d equate it to the equivalent of playing with all blue gear against people in gold gear. You can still win, but you have to be a better player than them, which isn’t hard against new players.

Cirantille · February 2020

True

It looks super easy when you watch them ganking you but when you play one it is even more annoying. I used to think that too until I played one.

The only survivable build I made was with dark cloak which is not as interesting as invisibility. Shame though, such a nice concept of a class with no self burst heal. Sigh

Asys · February 2020

Langeston wrote: »

Reyleigh wrote: »

Another NB whining thread ?
Enough of that, the class is OP for those that know how to use it

I'm sorry, but you have no clue what you are talking about. I play magblade, and unless I'm on one of my toons that has a lower MMR, I'm literally the only nightblade in probably half of the BGs I play in. If NBs were "OP" like you say, that wouldn't be the case — good players in high MMR BGs wouldn't avoid them like the plague (as they do now.)

Sure, they are competitive against average to below average players, but anyone that plays the class knows that there's a glass ceiling relative to other classes that no amount of skill can overcome.

Or maybe you just aint that good enough. Ever thought about that?

D3N7157 · February 2020

they were too strong and annoying in PVP and used to be unbeatable PVE dps both stam and mag
are you serious asking this question? make a diffrienct class stop crying

fastolfv_ESO · February 2020

not even sure how nbs have been "nerfed", they are still the best bombers and gankers in pvp with the best passives, in pve nbs are still doing monster dps just toned down just like every other class from the dot changes. The only thing i can think of is the heavy meta being pushed in pvp that makes all burst damage lower so someone might perceive nbs as nerfed

Ri_Khan · February 2020

So I played my stamblade main exclusively during the mayhem event in Cyro and I couldn't agree more with this. All of these complaint threads perfectly align with what I've experienced. The class has been over-nerfed and seems largely ineffective for this part of the game now. There's one tool left in NB's kit and everyone hates us for having to use it. Cloak sucks. It's no fun being pigeonholed into a play style like this just because the devs (or was it actually marketing 🤔) were too heavy-handed with their "balance" adjustments. PVE has been fine but again, it's really been no fun getting weaker as I've leveled up over the past year or so.

At this point, I have no confidence that proper decisions are being made by the right people as far as combat balance and the addition of new content goes and it definitely doesn't make me want to invest anything into the game anymore.

PrimusNephilim · February 2020

We've all heard from the nightblade crowd you're unhappy with the current situation with that class, if you're that unsatisfied with nightblades, then why not start just another class? Seems to me, you're unwilling (or unable) to adapt to the changes of the game.

Nevasca · February 2020

Not a dev, but my theory of why NB was overnerfed is this:

1. Cloak. Majority of their playerbase is casual (like in every game), most casuals will not have a way to detect cloaked NBs, sometimes they might not even have an AoE. So fighting a NB is frustrating for the newbies/casuals, so in order to please the majority temporarily they overnerfed NB until they figure it out what to do about it.

2. ZoS is know to overnerf everything people complain about in the forums. NB was OP when SA had major fracture and incap stun(mainly due to the other classes getting nerfed at the time while NB wasn't), so the complains were valid then. But people complained everyday about NB even in patches that they weren't that strong. ZoS saw NB complains and decided to nerf, just to make everyone happy. NB was probably one of the most uninteractive classes to play against when were are overtuned. They killed that by delaying our burst, instead of redesigned some things.

All you NB mains can do is wait or play another class until ZoS decides to do something about the class.