Please completely remove the ability to use troll tank builds in PVP, It's not healthy for the game.

Urzigurumash · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

If you're specifically complaining about tanks in BGs, are these tanks winning Death Match? If so you're at a gutter tier MMR. Are they winning the objective modes? Good, they should be, but I promise you a team of 4 tanks is not winning Relic versus a team of 1 tank, 1 healer, and 2 DDs.

They're not winning the games usually, they're just extremely annoying, especially on games that I que solo or games that don't fill. The worst of all is chaos ball for obvious reasons, but that's beyond my original point. I'm just mad at those that specifically target you to ruin your day, or simply become an annoying hunk of unbreakable rock on a flag.

Speaking of MMR I'm pretty sure that's all bugged to hell considering I see well known people in high MMR on the daily but occasionally there's an under 160 CP fellow getting utterly destroyed. More than one even.

No debate about the MMR, it is being reset this next update they say. I also see the same people and fought against a level 12 last night. Level 12 guy if you're reading this, I'm sorry about all that.

If a tank is squatting on a flag in Land Grab, or guarding the Relic, or holding the Ball, they are 100% playing to win, and your DD build is just not the best build for those modes (unless you're supporting a tank). Ask those guys how that build does in VMA?

Urzigurumash · February 2020

@Nyladreas

What class / race / weapons / armor weight do you play? Believe me there is some OP gear/skill combination for Objective modes for any build type. If you're bringing your Death Match gear into Chaosball and expecting to do well without a tank or healer on your team, you need to revise your strategy.

Kalante · February 2020

honestly having more than 30k health shouldn't even be allowed in PVP.

The less people dying = more lag.

Urzigurumash · February 2020

Kalante wrote: »

honestly having more than 30k health shouldn't even be allowed in PVP.

The less people dying = more lag.

So, Golden Gun mode?

Noctus · February 2020

Kalante wrote: »

honestly having more than 30k health shouldn't even be allowed in PVP.

The less people dying = more lag.

its not just the health. the resource abundance and the effectivity of blocking are main issues. i can heal a group and when i get attacked i can tank the full enemy group. if my group dies i can hold my own against 3 ppl if its 4 ppl its usually nail in the coffin. its just a build i made today in an hour. there are certainly ppl out there better in it.

heavy armor tank builds should do far less healing and damage.

its a very reasonable request even pve wise we are running allmost all vet dungeons without healers. there are groups doing vBRP without healer.

what could be done to help with the situation for now is introduce blockbreaking skill or let shieldbash break a block for certain ammount of time. this would give fights another dimension and pvp would get more technical and skillfull.

Strider__Roshin · February 2020

Kurat wrote: »

Ya let's nerf tanks into ground. PVPers crying already killed pve healers.
L2P zergling. If you cant kill the tank, move on, most likely he cant kill you either.

Who cares about PvE balance. All but veteran trials is brain dead easy, and what isn't easy just gets nerfed anyways due to low skilled PvEers. PvP balance should take priority since PvE nerfs simply just affect the speed for which you complete the content. Whereas PvP balance will literally destroy the entire experience.

Stebarnz · February 2020

Run onslaught or up your pen, snare them and run away, use invis pot and get away.

Alternatively moan on forums and get nowhere.

Plus I thought you played NB?

NaomiHutt · February 2020

Stebarnz wrote: »

Run onslaught or up your pen, snare them and run away, use invis pot and get away.

Alternatively moan on forums and get nowhere.

Plus I thought you played NB?

But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.

Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.

Stebarnz · February 2020

NaomiHutt wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Run onslaught or up your pen, snare them and run away, use invis pot and get away.

Alternatively moan on forums and get nowhere.

Plus I thought you played NB?

But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.

Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.

I think you meant to reply on a different thread

NaomiHutt · February 2020

Stebarnz wrote: »

NaomiHutt wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Run onslaught or up your pen, snare them and run away, use invis pot and get away.

Alternatively moan on forums and get nowhere.

Plus I thought you played NB?

But if someone is infinitely dodge rolling they are not attacking you, so I don't really see this as a problem.

Being unable to dodge attacks makes medium armour pointless to take.

I think you meant to reply on a different thread

Haha yeah, my phone is playing up

bearbelly · February 2020

What is with this "Please completely remove..." BS that people are on this week?

Stop it.

eso_lags · February 2020

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

dont engage them. move on to another objective.

I run into so many of these. Not even 60k health ones as much, a lot of the times its players with 30-35k health, high resist or healing, and no damage. Players in some kind of identity crisis. I just whisper them and inform them that if they want to kill people they should probably play a damage build. Usually its pretty bad players that seem to want to fail both as a tank and a damage dealer. I dont get it.

eso_lags · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

dont engage them. move on to another objective.

The problem arises when they engage you, regardless of how much you try to avoid THEM. lol

I run into so many of these. Not even 60k health ones as much, a lot of the times its players with 30-35k health, high resist or healing, and no damage. Players in some kind of identity crisis. I just whisper them and inform them that if they want to kill people they should probably play a damage build. Usually its pretty bad players that seem to want to fail both as a tank and a damage dealer. I dont get it.

Urzigurumash · February 2020

All the hatred towards 30k+ plus health builds and not one of you will ask for Undeath or Clockwork Citrus / Takeaway Broth to be deleted. Or will you?

blkjag · February 2020

Check health bars, remember names. Move onto the next target

Nanfoodle · February 2020

I think it's awesome that an MMO has made a tank a useful strategy in PvP. I think it should stay and if 10 people spend an hour chasing one around a rock or a tree, your the real problem.

jadarock · February 2020

Heal tanking for me is fun because trolling some arrogant dps to their eventual death is hilarious . It's the evolution of the tank by giving it more utility and in my mind makes sense for group play.
I had some real fun on my hybrid necro in (pre nerf) heavy fort brass steadfast hero and troll king.
90% of skills slotted were heals including a class heal for the cleanse(to proc steadfast) .
Healing CPS 30k health ......I stood on flags also trolled people across the map it made alot of people mad.
I'm not sure why some of you cant see how or why that wouldn't be a fun and appealing playstyle for some others .
The build isnt about killing it's about assisting in an unconventional way. Maybe just by being annoying camping an area or being a distraction
a damage soak , healer , being multifaceted mid battle is quite fun. Not only can the builds be effective but the experience can be a quite gratifying

Sneakers · February 2020

Solution is to play NO CP cyro.

Only very nische builds profit from a CP PVP environment.

Lots of people play NO CP cyro so u have the choice.

Playing a balanced build, u go no cp.

Playing a nische tank troll build, go cp.

Those unkillable tanks die like flies in NO CP since they cant reach 'critical mass' on sustain and mitigation.

Beardimus · February 2020

Just ignore / avoid. It's not like they can do much.

Every extreme build has its pros and cons

MyPrist · February 2020

Is oblivion damage not enough? Or you do not just want to use it because it will be harder for you to kill other builds?

You just want to win with 1 button click ?

mague · February 2020

spekdah wrote: »

Mixed with resource towers... tedious would be an understatement.

Normally people say just avoid,but sometimes you can't.

Yeah, like when they are inside the keep.

It is valid gaming as distraction or to bind 1-10 enemies to you. That way they cant attack/defend something else. But really ? Booooring stairway games ?

Dont do something you dont want others do to you....

HalvarIronfist · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm pretty sick of running into people with unlimited healing, 60K hp, who spam nothing but stuns , just casually standing in place, most likely blocking an objective, or something similar.

I know that multiple people can kill them, that's not the point, in 1v1, 1v2 or even 1v3 situations its unbearably boring, and actually kind of a turn off from the game. There is literally nothing you can do about a person like that, and when there are 2 friends like that, you kind of feel like just closing the game and leaving the room.

Don't let people play the game the way they want to because it bores you? Just go run somewhere else and do something else. PVP tanks are nothing but nuisances and people have complained about them for so long.

They're only really useful in domination/crazyking/chaosball bgs for obvious reasons. and if that's how they want to play. To build to be unkillable and PURPOSELY annoy you, then they should have all right to. In fact, I have two PVP tanks that I use for giggles. I've gotten hate whispers for using them. Sucks, just move on. There's more BGs to play and a wide world of easily-avoided-tanks cyrodiil to play if you don't have any luck.

Just my thoughts.

Brrrofski · February 2020

PvP would be so much better if health was capped at 25k.

Taleof2Cities · February 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

Nyladreas wrote: »

I'm pretty sick of running into people with unlimited healing, 60K hp, who spam nothing but stuns , just casually standing in place, most likely blocking an objective, or something similar.

I know that multiple people can kill them, that's not the point, in 1v1, 1v2 or even 1v3 situations its unbearably boring, and actually kind of a turn off from the game. There is literally nothing you can do about a person like that, and when there are 2 friends like that, you kind of feel like just closing the game and leaving the room.

Don't let people play the game the way they want to because it bores you? Just go run somewhere else and do something else. PVP tanks are nothing but nuisances and people have complained about them for so long.

They're only really useful in domination/crazyking/chaosball bgs for obvious reasons. and if that's how they want to play. To build to be unkillable and PURPOSELY annoy you, then they should have all right to. In fact, I have two PVP tanks that I use for giggles. I've gotten hate whispers for using them. Sucks, just move on. There's more BGs to play and a wide world of easily-avoided-tanks cyrodiil to play if you don't have any luck.

Just my thoughts.

Great post, @HalvarIronfist, I have a PvP Health Tank as well.

You know when it's the least fun on my PvP Health Tank??

When enemy PvP players ignore me and instead decide on another objective ...

Noctus · February 2020

Sneakers wrote: »

Solution is to play NO CP cyro.

Only very nische builds profit from a CP PVP environment.

Lots of people play NO CP cyro so u have the choice.

Playing a balanced build, u go no cp.

Playing a nische tank troll build, go cp.

Those unkillable tanks die like flies in NO CP since they cant reach 'critical mass' on sustain and mitigation.

those tank builds are very well possible especially on sorc,warden. im even only playing nb tank. ask how good the build was even tho i did it in a short ammount of time. the one who opened this thread met me in bg.

TheFM · February 2020

The problem is the ez access to protection and skills to reduce damage by x percent.

Urzigurumash · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

The problem is the ez access to protection and skills to reduce damage by x percent.

At least for Ransack, it would never have gotten Minor Protection if it wasn't for the many calls to nerf 7th Legion.

Edit: I thought this the thread about nerfing Fury, still a little relevant though as we discuss Heavy Armor S&B builds

JumpmanLane · February 2020

Buff DOTs! Buff bleeds! Buff defile! Buff oblivion damage!

Everybody crying for nerfs...well ya got em!

Daffen · February 2020

Pvp troll tanks will always be a part of PvP in this game. No matter what happens there will always be a way to tank multiple people, but... There are counters. Personally i have been tanking on my DK since morrowind and i would say im above average in tanking in pvp. It doesnt require much skill but rather controlling one self so you dont spam abilities and waste resources.

Trying to drain a tanks stamina wont work most of the time because once shield wall is active you can heavy attack to get all your stamina back.

Defiles will only work if the tank is under alot of pressure, 60-100% health is not under pressure.

The best counters that i die to most of the time when tanking is:
Meatbag catapult aoe damage (i use immovable skill so i cant move out of aoe), it reduces your healing by alot and does around 25k damage in 5 ticks.

Negates: prevents me from using all my magicka heals and buffs as well as my ultimate which can lead to me running out of stamina.

And the best counter that will kill any tank without the immovable skill is lag. Breaking free as soon as possible is really important while tanking so you can block more and take less damage. If lag makes break free take half a second longer when you are beeing attacked by 8 guys you will die almost instantly.

So my recommendation is: if its a good tank you need 4-5 good players to kill him and its important to keep spamming unblockable stuns and defiles if possible. If the tank if using the immovable skill (he cant move and you cant stun him) just put up a meatbag catapult and watch him melt.

Personally i think the heavy armor skill immovable is way too strong and it allows for too much mitigation for tanks. It fits perfectly for pvp tank because you can get 100% immovability which means you get 100% block uptime and you dont need to break free. My fix for this would be to reduce the duration of the immovability by making it 4-5 seconds instead of 7.

P.S No im not gonna tell u guys my build on the forums but u can probably find it by searching in youtube.

doomette · February 2020

They serve a very important function. Building ultimate then leaving for a less boring fight. Just don’t do it if your next location requires mounting up. Easy peasy.