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Bots in public dungeons
israelx
Soul Shriven
I'd like to know what is being done about the botters in the public dungeons? In the EU server every public dungeon I've gone so far has like 10 bots there, people just stand there and kill the boss as soon as it spawns, you can get one hit in the boss but you can't loot it because everyone is on of it. This is ridiculous.<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/ec/113bfad543a66a96b6259b2b468bd7.bmp" /><img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/5020507/uploads/FileUpload/ec/113bfad543a66a96b6259b2b468bd7.bmp" />
Edited by israelx on April 18, 2014 3:59AM
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Saerydoth✭✭✭✭What's being done is, they are going to add a loot timer to public dungeons, thus making it worthless for the bots to camp there.0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭What's being done is, they are going to add a loot timer to public dungeons, thus making it worthless for the bots to camp there.
Was supposed to be in the last patch.
Loot timer will do nothing. The bots will still sit there gathered leeching xp like they're currently doing not only on bosses but on regularly quick spawning mobs.2 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭What's being done is, they are going to add a loot timer to public dungeons, thus making it worthless for the bots to camp there.
Was supposed to be in the last patch.
Loot timer will do nothing. The bots will still sit there gathered leeching xp like they're currently doing not only on bosses but on regularly quick spawning mobs.
No, it wasn't. It was in the developer discussion, not the patch notes. They specifically said that wouldn't be ready in time for that patch. It MAY, however, be in tomorrow's patch, but we won't know until the patch notes go up.
And perhaps "loot timer" was the wrong phrase to use. The timer won't just affect loot, it will affect XP too.Edited by Saerydoth on April 18, 2014 4:01AM0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭
Public dungeons need to be made instanced like the group ones.What's being done is, they are going to add a loot timer to public dungeons, thus making it worthless for the bots to camp there.
Was supposed to be in the last patch.
Loot timer will do nothing. The bots will still sit there gathered leeching xp like they're currently doing not only on bosses but on regularly quick spawning mobs.
No, it wasn't. It was in the developer discussion, not the patch notes. They specifically said that wouldn't be ready in time for that patch. It MAY, however, be in tomorrow's patch, but we won't know until the patch notes go up.
And perhaps "loot timer" was the wrong phrase to use. The timer won't just affect loot, it will affect XP too.
Only way to combat this.
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Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭
Then they'll just go spawn camp world bosses or other mobs on a quick respawn timer.Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.
Instancing is the only fix.
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Leesha✭✭✭Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.
This is what concerns me. They WILL go elsewhere and that means it will impact our gameplay even more. A loot timer will not get them out of the game at all, it will just force them to search out the next easiest method for farming.
I don't like them any more than any of you do but a loot timer is not a fix for the problem. I firmly believe this will cause even more problems by forcing them out into the world where we spend most of our time.0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.
This is what concerns me. They WILL go elsewhere and that means it will impact our gameplay even more. A loot timer will not get them out of the game at all, it will just force them to search out the next easiest method for farming.
I don't like them any more than any of you do but a loot timer is not a fix for the problem. I firmly believe this will cause even more problems by forcing them out into the world where we spend most of our time.
There's heaps of bots spawn camping mobs which are on fairly quick respawn timers or 'elite' mobs out in the world.
Timer will do absolutely nothing unless ZOS decides to add one to all mobs in the world meaning...oh gawd I hope I didn't just give them any ideas...O_o
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Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.
This is what concerns me. They WILL go elsewhere and that means it will impact our gameplay even more. A loot timer will not get them out of the game at all, it will just force them to search out the next easiest method for farming.
I don't like them any more than any of you do but a loot timer is not a fix for the problem. I firmly believe this will cause even more problems by forcing them out into the world where we spend most of our time.
Well, you can't instance the whole world. I think all non-instanced group mobs (ALL public dungeon enemies, and ALL world bosses) should have a timer on them.
But at some point, they are going to have to step in and start getting rid of bots faster. This means, better detection, easier reporting, faster bans, and ALSO banning the people who buy from gold sellers (they enable them to stay in business). The idea isn't to make it impossible to bot - that can't be done. As long as we have control over the PC's that play the game, there will ALWAYS be bots, and there will ALWAYS be people who exploit the system.Edited by Saerydoth on April 18, 2014 4:54AM0 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭Ok, the patch notes for tomorrow just went up, but this isn't being added yet. It looks like the fixes for tomorrow are mainly a fix for the bank bug (yay), and a change to how stacks of items work in the guild bank.
And I don't necessarily think instancing is necessary. Once the timer goes in, it will be a complete waste time for the botters to farm them, so they will go elsewhere.
This is what concerns me. They WILL go elsewhere and that means it will impact our gameplay even more. A loot timer will not get them out of the game at all, it will just force them to search out the next easiest method for farming.
I don't like them any more than any of you do but a loot timer is not a fix for the problem. I firmly believe this will cause even more problems by forcing them out into the world where we spend most of our time.
Well, you can't instance the whole world. I think all non-instanced group mobs (ALL public dungeon enemies, and ALL world bosses) should have a timer on them.
But at some point, they are going to have to step in and start getting rid of bots faster. This means, better detection, easier reporting, faster bans, and ALSO banning the people who buy from gold sellers (they enable them to stay in business). The idea isn't to make it impossible to bot - that can't be done. As long as we have control over the PC's that play the game, there will ALWAYS be bots, and there will ALWAYS be people who exploit the system.
no but you can sure as *** instance public dungeons and scale them based on players in group.
Edited by Anoteros on April 18, 2014 5:29AM0 -
a.allredb14_ESOSoul ShrivenHonestly leave loot as it is. Send out your CS / GMs to each dungeon, ban accounts. Pretty simple IMO. Extremely unlikely someone is going to get banned accidentally, it's not hard to tell which are the bots.
I imagine that each bot group, is probably on the same public IP, as they probably run out of same location. Should be other ways to verify as well.
Punishing your customers who are what will make the game continue is a good way to give more reasons to not pay next months sub.4 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭You have to realize, that Zenimax has to be very careful here. It's easy to say "get rid of bots", but it's HARD to find a way to reliably get rid of bots without impacting legitimate players. It's really easy to be an armchair programmer and think up ways to get rid of them. But you have to realize, that Zenimax has to be able to justify each account banned. They can't just say "it looked like a bot". They have to be able to prove it is a bot, otherwise the ban would get overturned on appeal.
I know it's frustrating, I hate these parasites too and wish there was a magical way to just get rid of them all. But the fact remains, ALL MMO's have this problem, and all MMO's will always have this problem. Computers are not sentient, and the servers can't magically tell that something is a bot. Just like viruses and antivirus programs, it is an arms race. They find a way to detect bots, the bot makers make changes to thwart it.
Also, having GM's watch places to ban people is not practical. Even though ESO looks like one server, it still has a bunch of different shards. The megaserver just means you are not confined to a shard and can move between them. It would take, at minimum, hundreds of GM's just sitting there twiddling their thumbs watching for bots, rather than answering legitimate tickets. And plus, there is still the issue above, they have to have evidence that it is a bot, and "looks like a bot" doesn't cover it.
The best thing they can do, is put timers on public dungeon mobs, and world bosses that drop loot. That won't impact most players (only the ones that insist on farming), and it would really hurt the bots. But the problem is - they'll go somewhere else.Edited by Saerydoth on April 18, 2014 6:04AM0 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭I am finding it impossible to get any loot in most public dungeons. A hit or 2 at most. But a stack of 6 templars will in unison 1 shot a boss. It is f'ing ridiculous that this problem even exists. It's not like the devs never played an MMO before, it's like they've never met people before.
Any MMO should be designed to make life hard to impossible for gold bots. Doors locked and bolted. This one left the key under the mat and then pinned a sign saying 'key under the mat' on the door.1 -
steveb16_ESO46✭✭✭✭✭You have to realize, that Zenimax has to be very careful here. It's easy to say "get rid of bots", but it's HARD to find a way to reliably get rid of bots without impacting legitimate players.
Kill the boss more than twice in 24 hours and you are considered a bot. Stay in the boss location 5 minutes and you are considered a bot. And no - camping a boss is not 'legitimate' play.
These bosses should have been instanced from the get go.
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AngryNord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have joined these 'campers' on several occasions, just to get the 'dungeon complete' achievement to level up... Never had too big a problem getting in enough hits to get the achievement (in Stonefalls and Deshaan).0 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭Instance.
Dungeon.
Delves.
You can't just instance the whole world. There will ALWAYS be some non-instanced content that will attract bots. And they will still be around. Unless the entire world were just instanced to you and your group, you would still run into bots.
Now, this quote comes from Blizzard (not Zenimax), but everything they said applies just as much to ESO as it does to Blizzard. I can guarantee that Zenimax's policies toward botting are exactly the same.You know what our stance is, it is prohibited. Simply because something is not permitted doesn't magically give us the ability to instantly find and eliminate anyone who may be doing it though.
There isn't simply one program used by all the botters out there. Each one requires time to find and develop ways of detection and prevention.
While you are able to make a judgement based simply on observation, we must have evidence that can be verified. The penalties that come with such actions are fairly severe and we must be able to go back and review what happened to uphold such decisions. A note that says "he walked in a straight line and didn't respond to a bunch of whispers" isn't appropriate verification of exploitation.
As previously stated in your other post, continue to report those you suspect of violating our Terms of Use so it can be investigated.0 -
Laurai✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »You have to realize, that Zenimax has to be very careful here. It's easy to say "get rid of bots", but it's HARD to find a way to reliably get rid of bots without impacting legitimate players.
Kill the boss more than twice in 24 hours and you are considered a bot. Stay in the boss location 5 minutes and you are considered a bot.
Seriously?
I'm glad you're (hopefully) not a programer.Edited by Laurai on April 18, 2014 6:28AM2 -
It is annoying having a camping group (be they bots or 'legit' grinders) around a boss spawn. Thankfully (for ppl with macro keyboards/mice) there is an easy work around by having a keyboard macro key spam an ability that needs a target every 0.5 seconds (silver bolts in my case for it's recycle time).
That said I've been running into these packs much less of late so it's possible some of the bans/behind the scenes actions have started to stick, time will tell.
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Anoteros✭✭✭✭steveb16_ESO46 wrote: »You have to realize, that Zenimax has to be very careful here. It's easy to say "get rid of bots", but it's HARD to find a way to reliably get rid of bots without impacting legitimate players.
Kill the boss more than twice in 24 hours and you are considered a bot. Stay in the boss location 5 minutes and you are considered a bot. And no - camping a boss is not 'legitimate' play.
These bosses should have been instanced from the get go.
the 24 hour thing simply doesnt sound reasonable at all
Trying to get one hit in, let alone getting loot is almost impossible and to simply say *** it and leave isn't a viable option either.
Instancing the dungeons would be the only solution and basing it on a 5 dungeon per hour lockout like in WoW, Rift etc would also fix things.
Now botting in the world ZOS should have had some measures in place to prevent this.
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Savinder✭✭✭The way the "boss timer" was described won't work anyway: bots are automated, which means that they won't care if the boss drops loot since they can (and do) stand there all day long.
As long as they can repeatedly kill the boss, even with no rewards, things will remain the same.
The solution is to make it so the boss can only be killed once until a timer expires.Edited by Savinder on April 18, 2014 7:46AMVar var var0
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