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Build Fatigue is real... Stop listening to feedback on class changes.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Catchy slogans, nothing more. Yes I can imagine that certain classes wouldn't like to have new balance overhaul, but it's not how MMOs work.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.1 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Catchy slogans, nothing more. Yes I can imagine that certain classes wouldn't like to have new balance overhaul, but it's not how MMOs work.
Grouping this with other MMOs in not how this works. More, your understanding of these changes, and how they relate to other MMO's doesn't work.3 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »Catchy slogans, nothing more. Yes I can imagine that certain classes wouldn't like to have new balance overhaul, but it's not how MMOs work.
Grouping this with other MMOs in not how this works. More, your understanding of these changes, and how they relate to other MMO's doesn't work.
I don't group it with other MMOs but in general with genre, ESO is an MMO game and you need to deal with it. There are ALWAYS during any PTS cycle at least few threads "NO MORE NERFS"! Mainly made by those that are on top of the food chain at the moment, and guess what? Your wish has same power as wishes of the others. You're not entitled to decide.
Yes, I don't like that balance roller coaster to and would like to avoid it, but when it's needed, we should have one. I'm not saying we are currently in need of one, but as I said before: ESO is an MMO and nothing is set in stone here.
Generalisations are bad.Edited by Mayrael on February 4, 2020 6:31AMI'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Catchy slogans, nothing more. Yes I can imagine that certain classes wouldn't like to have new balance overhaul, but it's not how MMOs work.
You are correct. No one likes having their class nerfed and no one really likes changes to their build. As you pointed out it is part of MMOs.
No one likes having to change their build every 4 months. I had friends that left this game in 2018, tired of the constant changes. That was before Zos started this current process.
Zos is implementing a combat system they hope to be able to balance easier and have less changes in the long run. We can hope they got it right but we will only know if they actually finish it. It makes no sense to trash it only to continue with the poor balancing they did in the years prior to this.1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »We had most of a year of near consistent, wild, build changes. Over four of my friends I personally know have left due to the frequency, and the predictability of changes. I can say with upmost certainty it has damaged the brand. Sure, fix what's broken, change skills (slightly) but time for wild nerfs and adjustments are over. Like I said in my previous post, there are quite a mix of classes in pvp. Ignore the people crying for nerfs. It's an endless game that only ends one way, you shutting down due to inactivity.
Focus on performance (like you've stated) and empty this entire sub forum.
I part know what you are saying. My MagSorc setup was picked on for many patches (MagDW) which got frustrating. Then the Frag nerf / poor cc choice / rune cage buffnerf / then they changes wards / nerfed pets / buffed pets etc
As someone with limited play time that's very frustrating. However likewise I think people seeking the 0.01% gain from the latest meta are in a cage of their own making. Balance and change is needed and actually helps folks keep interested
- those chasing meta have something to do / farm / learn
- those on a poor class or build (Argonian for 2 years) get a chance to be stronger
What I learnt was to craft and trade and get a few mill in the bank at least it's easy then to shortcut the gear changes.
Personally I feel this patch is great no huge swing changesXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach1 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Generalisations are bad.
You mean generalizations? Isn't generalizing all MMOs as "in need of fixing" a generalizations into itself? ... and that there are always these kinds of threads? I think your projecting, and over simplifying the issue.
To use extremes; what if they announced a new patch every ten minutes? With wild 70% nerfs and buffs each patch. Maintaining the characters reliance on riding training lasting six months.
Would you state the same then? Would it be a typical MMO behavior then? Obviously not, so there is a line. I play a popular MMO (that I shall not name) my HP went from 15,500 to 15,000 over the last year my DPS is roughly 5%~ more... again over a year.
That is just plain unheard of in ESO. You could wake up next week and your Stamina Necro Werewolf is now a healing magic tank with only debuff moves. Cause they have a "plan". There is no plan anybody that looks at the patch history can see this. They are not half done. The funny and sad thing is what I joked about could very well happen.Edited by Elric_Ashborn on February 4, 2020 8:40AM6 -
Stibbons✭✭✭✭✭SpiderKnight wrote: »But nerf Templars one last time before this happens.
It will not help on L2P issues.
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snoozy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »I hear the best Nightblade build currently is a stamden.
as a nightblade main, i can confirm
PC EU1 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭you should play dota 2 to realize much different the game (dota2) for just only a two weeks compared to this game.
get over it, we need change and improvement so the game not boring and keep fresh with new ideas.
just post your feedback and they will reconsider the change and fix it.
changes are not bad, keep innovating.1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭so frequent and predictable changes are chasing your friends away?
All FOUR of them?
you would rather have infrequent and unpredictable changes and then you'd be ok with staying?
could you elaborate on what an infrequent and unpredictable change would be? should a change happen just out of the blue and not every patch cycle.. and the change needs to be completely out of left field and then you're ok with it?
what do you even mean? do you know? have you tried reading your posts before actually posting them so that viewers of the post do not simply discount it as a complete waste of time filled with incoherent babble?[/s]
An even bigger sin is posting without capital letters at the beginning of your sentences. Or at least consider trying to select the Shift key once in a while except for FOUR 4 -
mursie✭✭✭✭✭Veinblood1965 wrote: »so frequent and predictable changes are chasing your friends away?
All FOUR of them?
you would rather have infrequent and unpredictable changes and then you'd be ok with staying?
could you elaborate on what an infrequent and unpredictable change would be? should a change happen just out of the blue and not every patch cycle.. and the change needs to be completely out of left field and then you're ok with it?
what do you even mean? do you know? have you tried reading your posts before actually posting them so that viewers of the post do not simply discount it as a complete waste of time filled with incoherent babble?[/s]
An even bigger sin is posting without capital letters at the beginning of your sentences. Or at least consider trying to select the Shift key once in a while except for FOUR
so the content of your sentences can be illogical and incoherent...but if you capitalize the first letter it's more tolerable in your opinion? appreciate you sharing that st_________so that I can safely ignore anything you ever say again knowing with confidence it was spoken by an i_____.
Edited by mursie on February 5, 2020 12:24AM1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭you should play dota 2 to realize much different the game (dota2) for just only a two weeks compared to this game.
get over it, we need change and improvement so the game not boring and keep fresh with new ideas.
just post your feedback and they will reconsider the change and fix it.
changes are not bad, keep innovating.
So, comparing a MMO as ESO with a MoBA don't seem like a good idea. MoBA games need to be updating and fixing stuffs. Every match lasts a couple minutes, even hours.
ESO? Each campaign in Cyro last at least 7 days, while the most popular ones last 1 month.
Problem is when the game is changed each 3 months... so you don't have a chance to digest the changes.
If you want to do something original here, you have 3 months to test it, and when you have polished that new build, you have to pray to Jyggalag the development team is not going to change everything again, which they usually do. (Jyggalag by the way is the daedric prince of order)Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭
Yes, a majority are, the data is in. We have different definitions of the word innovating.changes are not bad, keep innovating.3 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Issue is they have to balance solo, BGs, healing, tanking , small scale and large scale Cyro... plus PvE.
I think they’re focusing more on PvE. There a ton more whiner threads for pvp, but PvErs lose their *** more over small things.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Squidgaurd✭✭✭lets face it they are slowly making this game into a homogenised rts game with cooldowns and cast times and copy paste builds.3
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SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭so frequent and predictable changes are chasing your friends away?
All FOUR of them?
you would rather have infrequent and unpredictable changes and then you'd be ok with staying?
could you elaborate on what an infrequent and unpredictable change would be? should a change happen just out of the blue and not every patch cycle.. and the change needs to be completely out of left field and then you're ok with it?
what do you even mean? do you know? have you tried reading your posts before actually posting them so that viewers of the post do not simply discount it as a complete waste of time filled with incoherent babble?
Just because you flipped frequent and predictable with their respective antithesis, infrequent and unpredictable, doesn't mean you grasp the meaning of what the OP is trying to convey in their message.
Reread the post, otherwise if you'd like, I can break it down into nice cute little BBcode for the BB, using hex colours!! 😺0 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭Their plan to fix performance is by killing off the sever load of players that are playing. 8
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Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Most people pick one build when they make a character and never change it, only the very elite players are going around trying to chase the meta.
I have been using the same pve build for years and my dps is still the same, (seems to be skill limited not gear limited)0 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »Most people pick one build when they make a character and never change it, only the very elite players are going around trying to chase the meta.
I have been using the same pve build for years and my dps is still the same, (seems to be skill limited not gear limited)
I don't think that is accurate at all. There is an entire market for new toons, and if "most" people stuck with a single character there would be no need for that. XP Events, Scrolls, Riding Scrolls, Crafting Scrolls, Name Change Tokens, Race Change Tokens, Skyshard Unlocks...
In-fact I know with upmost certainty the opposite is true...2 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »Narvuntien wrote: »Most people pick one build when they make a character and never change it, only the very elite players are going around trying to chase the meta.
I have been using the same pve build for years and my dps is still the same, (seems to be skill limited not gear limited)
I don't think that is accurate at all. There is an entire market for new toons, and if "most" people stuck with a single character there would be no need for that. XP Events, Scrolls, Riding Scrolls, Crafting Scrolls, Name Change Tokens, Race Change Tokens, Skyshard Unlocks...
In-fact I know with upmost certainty the opposite is true...
I think you misread what I said. I never mentioned alts, I said that people are not running around after the meta. they have an idea of how they want their character (each character) to work and they build that and use that regardless of the class and gear changes.1 -
Tigerseye✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I totally understand the concept of build fatigue, especially if you always feel you have to optimise, but every class and skill should be equally valid.
If they can't achieve that, with the current options, because there are just too many possible variations, they need to redo how selecting skills etc. is done and make it more standardised.
So, there are still options, but they are not so fluid that there becomes only one right answer.
All possible answers should be right and choosing a class, or skill (or CP point), should be far more about personal playstyle than about which is, currently, OP.Edited by Tigerseye on February 8, 2020 6:46PM2 -
agingerinohio✭✭✭The day I stopped trying to follow the meta, is the day I started enjoying the game again and actually find myself laughing and smiling more while playing.Edited by agingerinohio on February 8, 2020 6:58PM4
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Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Narvuntien wrote: »Elric_Ashborn wrote: »Narvuntien wrote: »Most people pick one build when they make a character and never change it, only the very elite players are going around trying to chase the meta.
I have been using the same pve build for years and my dps is still the same, (seems to be skill limited not gear limited)
I don't think that is accurate at all. There is an entire market for new toons, and if "most" people stuck with a single character there would be no need for that. XP Events, Scrolls, Riding Scrolls, Crafting Scrolls, Name Change Tokens, Race Change Tokens, Skyshard Unlocks...
In-fact I know with upmost certainty the opposite is true...
I think you misread what I said. I never mentioned alts, I said that people are not running around after the meta. they have an idea of how they want their character (each character) to work and they build that and use that regardless of the class and gear changes.
Did not misread it, you misspoke maybe? But you quite literally said "and never change it" there is only one way to take that... I never mentioned the meta, this thread did. I have (repeatedly) stated the core changes to how classes function. Being morphed completely from what they once were. Spammables and core skills taking the brunt of entire re-works. But others as well, Werewolf is a good example. If you built a werewolf you've just plain had a rough year.Most people pick one build when they make a character and never change it
I wasn't joking, I'm not talking about the meta, love your Stam DK DPS build? that mows them down in PvP? Well three months from now (or less) it will be different. Not only that, those same skills might be healing, or tank, or something completely different entirely. This has been the way of ESO for six years.Edited by Elric_Ashborn on February 9, 2020 12:52PM2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I totally understand the concept of build fatigue, especially if you always feel you have to optimise, but every class and skill should be equally valid.
If they can't achieve that, with the current options, because there are just too many possible variations, they need to redo how selecting skills etc. is done and make it more standardised.
So, there are still options, but they are not so fluid that there becomes only one right answer.
All possible answers should be right and choosing a class, or skill (or CP point), should be far more about personal playstyle than about which is, currently, OP.
I think the game is a lot more balanced then people think. There are only some skills that stand out as required because they’re stronger then others like dizzy and onslaught.
Mostly it comes down to certain playstyles are stronger than others right now like S&B for stam, resto for mag, etc... and you can still be successful just by choosing a spec that’s meant to counter what the majority of people play.
I’d say all that outright suck right now are dots and projectiles feel weak.Edited by Iskiab on February 9, 2020 11:47PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
StShoot✭✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »We had most of a year of near consistent, wild, build changes. Over four of my friends I personally know have left due to the frequency, and the predictability of changes. I can say with upmost certainty it has damaged the brand. Sure, fix what's broken, change skills (slightly) but time for wild nerfs and adjustments are over. Like I said in my previous post, there are quite a mix of classes in pvp. Ignore the people crying for nerfs. It's an endless game that only ends one way, you shutting down due to inactivity.
Focus on performance (like you've stated) and empty this entire sub forum.
What makes you think ZoS will consider it?
I mean they didn't even listen to us when we told them not to launch a new class and instead focus on performance. ZoS craves for changes, each patch. Each patch they add something new that forces them to nerf something old, just to sell the new sets.
Iceheart is the best example in this patch...
I heard somewhere that zos wants to release a new class every two years.... if that is true the game will be unplayable after the next year.... i realy dont get, it zos had problems ballancing the 4 old classes (dk/sorc/tempar/nb) so they added the warden (a class that couldnt realy find a spot since the old classes allready ocupied all roles, so zos nerfed the old classes to force the warden into the game). And again time showed that zos has no clue how to ballance the game, so they released a new class which was only viable because of broken mechanics.
This patch (as far as i read on the forums and heard ingame) was one of the worst ballance changes that this game ever had, there is no real ballance, some stuff is overperforming af, while other things are completly useless. Still the op wants to leave the game in this state.
I think zos should release smaller but faster patches (not new content just ballance patches) and they shouldnt ballance with the hammer, dots were to high ? reduce them by 20 percent, take a look how the live server reacts to the changes during the month and adjust them if needed. This Way we dont have to deal with those mega patchnotes every 3 months and underused skills dont remain complete useless for the next 3/6/9 months.
Sorry for my bad english0 -
reiverx✭✭✭✭✭Two years ago ZOS didn't want to spend time balancing the game because it would take two years to do.
1 -
Taloros✭✭✭✭CleymenZero wrote: »A good rule of thumb is: anything, statement or opinion that is categorical and absolute is flawed.
I agree. Also, all Greeks are liars, a Greek once told me.1 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Two years ago ZOS didn't want to spend time balancing the game because it would take two years to do.
I don't know where you heard that, or got that idea. But two years ago there were certainly massive buff and nerfs in the name of balance. Quite a few members on this thread alone confusing what they would have liked to happen, with reality. Just like "there won't be any balance changes this patch" and "only fixes" turned out so far there have been quite a few. I think they are addicted to it, they can't help it, that or they are feeding their cash shop.0
