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Should the changes to Ice Heart be Reverted?

  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Destroy some good old content because some new crappy content has to be sold? :#

    Edited by BalticBlues on February 4, 2020 5:05AM
  • Valykc
    Valykc
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Vote with your wallets and unsub if you don’t support it. I already did. I don’t even crutch on this set by any means, I just liked it only my MagDen because Frost Mage. However, this change is blatantly to make the new dlc set a better option. It hurts new players and I’m just done, I can’t support this game anymore with changes like this. Nerf sustain, nerf speed, nerf dots, nerf anything they feel like just to flip the game on its head.

    Nobody in this PTS cycle asked for Iceheart to be nerfed. Yet some feedback, like the Stalking Blastbones morph gaining no additional damage bonus since the skill change, goes completely ignored for THREE WEEKS!
    Edited by Valykc on February 4, 2020 5:12AM
  • Froil
    Froil
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    I don't even use Iceheart but I know there was absolutely no need to nerf it. If they wanted to make Cianniat(?) better, they should've just buffed it or made it different.
    "Best" healer PC/NA
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    It's the long cooldown that really kills it. That's the issue with Brands of Imperium and Phoenix. If the cooldown is going to be as long as they say, shouldn't they actually buff the shield so it is more in line with Brands of Imperium?
    Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yes
    It's the long cooldown that really kills it. That's the issue with Brands of Imperium and Phoenix. If the cooldown is going to be as long as they say, shouldn't they actually buff the shield so it is more in line with Brands of Imperium?

    you cant compare a monster set to a 5pc set and that the problem, a monster set is ment to out perform a 5pc or why bother having them at all
  • Darkenarlol
    Darkenarlol
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    2 ZOS' main balancing rules :

    - middle finger rule (just throw one in customer's face every update)

    - play as you want (with what we left 4 u dawg lol)
  • Grandma
    Grandma
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    their logic was fine. It had too much power, defense, and cooldown speed at once for the amount of stuff it did. so you nerf one and tone it down.

    instead they nerfed all 3.

    Either nerf the shield, the cooldown, or the damage, not all 3. nerfing all 3 just frustrates literally everyone who ever wanted to use it, and makes your buffing mother ciannat [or however its spelled] come across creepily close to replacing it with paid content.
    GH / 3/04/2021 / Elemental Catalyst Necromancer
  • Raisin
    Raisin
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    Sets that fill a reasonably sized niche are the best kind of set. Now this will make the content I'm currently interested in (trial trifectas) harder, which generally makes me one happy camper... But it's always a shame to see any set nerfed into the ground. It's simple: if you've changed a set to a point where no one uses it anymore and it gets added to the pile to worthless sets, you did an oopsie. It's not supposed to be completely okay, but it has to be worth using in its niche of situations. IH makes you sacrifice damage. It's not some end all BiS and people don't want to wear it unless absolutely necessary. If you need to nerf it a little to balance it, that's fine, but this isn't balanced. This is wiping IH off the table of options to consider and that's not healthy for the game. We have enough dead sets.
  • SirLeeMinion
    SirLeeMinion
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Voted revert... of course, the vote means nothing. ZOS does not give a rip about PTS feedback. Nor do they care that I've stopped putting money into the game because of the relentless, poorly-considered changes that always accompany new content.

    But, voting with your wallet does feel good. It's one of the many things that have zero impact when done alone but might make a difference in the aggregate.

    #killingit
  • RaptorRodeoGod
    RaptorRodeoGod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    It's the long cooldown that really kills it. That's the issue with Brands of Imperium and Phoenix. If the cooldown is going to be as long as they say, shouldn't they actually buff the shield so it is more in line with Brands of Imperium?

    you cant compare a monster set to a 5pc set and that the problem, a monster set is ment to out perform a 5pc or why bother having them at all

    I'm just saying, if they're going to compare two sets, they should be consistent when they make adjustments. They shouldn't have compared Iceheart to Imperium because they did not scale the Iceheart bonus to be consistent with Imperium bonus. My only guess to as to why is because the "damage" on the Iceheart set hyper bloats its "power budget."
    Add a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
    ---
    Veteran players have been alienated and disengaged from Overland since One Tamriel, due to the lack of difficulty, and pushed into dungeons and trials; the minority of content in the Elder Scrolls Online. We can't take the repetition anymore, fix Overland engagement for Vet players. I don't even care if it's not combat related anymore, just make Overland engaging again.
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yes
    It's the long cooldown that really kills it. That's the issue with Brands of Imperium and Phoenix. If the cooldown is going to be as long as they say, shouldn't they actually buff the shield so it is more in line with Brands of Imperium?

    you cant compare a monster set to a 5pc set and that the problem, a monster set is ment to out perform a 5pc or why bother having them at all

    I'm just saying, if they're going to compare two sets, they should be consistent when they make adjustments. They shouldn't have compared Iceheart to Imperium because they did not scale the Iceheart bonus to be consistent with Imperium bonus. My only guess to as to why is because the "damage" on the Iceheart set hyper bloats its "power budget."

    when i say "you" i mean them :)
  • mague
    mague
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Please dont nerf the cooldown !!!

    If it is overperforming, then lower damage and shield a bit. But 20% every other 12 secs is useless.
  • Carsinomus
    Carsinomus
    ✭✭✭
    Yes
    I feel exZOSted with this nerfs! They (ZOS) either stupid or greedy. I bet on second...
  • Nemesis7884
    Nemesis7884
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    its really tough to get the eso community 96% behind anything, but the horrible combat team even manages that...
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    ✭✭
    Yes
    If they really want to nerf Iceheart for the sake of nerfing and to make look Mother Ciannait better than it actualy is, I would suggest these:
    1) remove damage component entirely
    2) leave shield value as it is in 5.3.2 to be in line with their useless wannabe replacement for Iceheart, which really can't be called a replacement
    3) REVERT THE COOLDOWN BACK TO 6 SECONDS


  • Beardimus
    Beardimus
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    No
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
    1st Emperor of Ravenwatch
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
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    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
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    Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
    Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    Tbh never heard anyone saying that this set is OP... Have not used it because of a couple of reasons - primarly - the double proc chance - 20% on a crit. So 1st you have to crit and then it is 20% . I dislike proc-sets in general. I don't like when it is RNG that decides if I win or fail.

    But, since we have this rng aspect of the set, I think that it should be treated as a kiss-curse.

    But what worries me the most is that this change is done purley to sell new dlc.
    Devs said in their comment that this set (according to their math and spreadsheet, which btw. I would like to see) was above their standards. Well, if Iceheart was above, then what about Chudan or Zaan ?

    And btw. - Chudan was already reviewed last year and stayed as it is, so it is not above any standards...

    Basically I will repeat myself - I am worried that iceheart is just the begining and ZOS will keep nerfing older base game sets and skills in order to push new content.
    Loosing trust to the devs. Maybe it is not the fault of the combat team but rather - the upper management, as always.
    Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on February 4, 2020 7:48AM
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    ✭✭
    Yes
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it

    Comments like these are reason why we don't have "thumbs down" option in forums.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 4, 2020 7:59AM
  • satanio
    satanio
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it

    Flawless logic. xD

    So anything that helps in some achievement devalues that respective achievement?

    Anyways, revert the change.
    Current public stam parses on Iron Atro so far (esologs)
    DW&Bow
    DW&2H
    2H&Bow
    Bow&Bow

    Current public mag parses on Iron Atro (esologs)
    (non cheese)
    ESOLEAKS CASUALTIES:
    Checkmath
    Tasear
    RIP
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
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    ✭✭
    Yes
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it

    by that logic so do achievement runs and carry runs should we ban those?
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
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    ✭✭
    Yes
    satanio wrote: »
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it

    Flawless logic. xD

    So anything that helps in some achievement devalues that respective achievement?

    Anyways, revert the change.

    Necromancers in group drasticaly ease speed run trial achievements. I think we should ban Necromancers entirely as these devalue speed runs.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 4, 2020 8:38AM
  • Pardus01
    Pardus01
    Soul Shriven
    Yes
    Beardimus wrote: »
    Sets a crutch that devalues no death

    Results of this poll only prove that they are right to nerf it

    mimimimi oohh look, i am the best. I do no-death runs without iceheart with 15k hp. mimimii screw you all. I am better than all of you... mimiimimimi
  • Elwendryll
    Elwendryll
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    How cold-hearted would you have to be to nerf that set? (badum tss)
    PC - EU - France - AD
    Main character: Qojikrin - Khajiit Sorcerer Tank/Stamina DD - since March 25, 2015.
    Guildmaster of Oriflamme: Focus on 4 player endgame content.
    Member of Brave Cat Trade, Panda Division and Toadhuggers.

    All 4-man trifectas - TTT, IR, GH
  • haelene
    haelene
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes
    Basically I will repeat myself - I am worried that iceheart is just the begining and ZOS will keep nerfing older base game sets and skills in order to push new content.

    This is exactly what's going to happen, unfortunately. It's a pretty well documented pattern at this point.

  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
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    2 ZOS' main balancing rules :

    - middle finger rule (just throw one in customer's face every update)

    - play as you want (with what we left 4 u dawg lol)

    You forgot:

    - ban the objectors and silence the critic!
  • AngelaWasp
    AngelaWasp
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    Yes
    I didn't get round to buying the new chapter yet and if they don't reverse this decision about Iceheart, I definitely won't buy it. I only use Iceheart in pve solo play, not in Maelstrom, pvp or trials. I use it to relax, go fishing and explore the world. I'm so damn disappointed.
  • Asardes
    Asardes
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    No
    I think the change was warranted and I'm in fact surprised they didn't do it earlier.

    8600 was slightly more than Harness Magicka/Empowered Ward tool tip capped at 50% HP - and slightly less than Dampen Magicka/Hardened ward - which are capped at 60% HP - on a 17-18K HP DD. Also having no extra cooldown meant that you had it on permanently - in PvE settings the 20% proc chance meant nothing, since you have 3-4 DoTs ticking, and weave light attacks with spammable on most classes, so it would pretty much proc again right after it falls off. Casting what is basically your standard damage shield every 6s with no cost and doing some AoE damage was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

    Mother Ciannait will be balanced now with Iceheart - half the shield, but with higher up time. It's similar to the balance between other sets that grant a shield, for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl - a bigger shield on a single target vs. a smaller shield on multiple targets. All were and will be niche sets.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
    vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor

    PC-EU CP 3000+
    41,000+ Achievement Points before High Isle
    Member of:
    Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
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    Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
    Valinor Overflow: Trader
    The Traveling Merchant: Silver


    Characters:
    Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
    Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
    Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
    Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
    Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
    Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
    Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
    Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |

    Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
    Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
    Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
    Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
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    Characters:
    Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |
  • Skysenzz
    Skysenzz
    ✭✭✭
    No
    This shut is just a pve carry. Need to nuke TK aswell now and we get healthier gameplay.
    CP1000+
    DC sDK Skysenzz
    DC Stamden Kartag Vosh Rakh
    DC mDK Ignis-Noctem
    DC sDK Ellesperis
    DC MagSorc Victorià
    EP Stamplar Subject to change
    EP StamBlade Powerful Ninja Zoid
    DC StamNecro StamDK ls Better
  • Alienoutlaw
    Alienoutlaw
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yes
    Asardes wrote: »
    I think the change was warranted and I'm in fact surprised they didn't do it earlier.

    8600 was slightly more than Harness Magicka/Empowered Ward tool tip capped at 50% HP - and slightly less than Dampen Magicka/Hardened ward - which are capped at 60% HP - on a 17-18K HP DD. Also having no extra cooldown meant that you had it on permanently - in PvE settings the 20% proc chance meant nothing, since you have 3-4 DoTs ticking, and weave light attacks with spammable on most classes, so it would pretty much proc again right after it falls off. Casting what is basically your standard damage shield every 6s with no cost and doing some AoE damage was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

    Mother Ciannait will be balanced now with Iceheart - half the shield, but with higher up time. It's similar to the balance between other sets that grant a shield, for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl - a bigger shield on a single target vs. a smaller shield on multiple targets. All were and will be niche sets.

    why are you compering a monster set with class skill's? the two are very separate, a monster set is designed (or it used to be) to give an added bonus thats why they are locked behind VET content otherwise just make them available in normal dungeons . your argument is flawed
  • Olupajmibanan
    Olupajmibanan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Yes
    Asardes wrote: »
    I think the change was warranted and I'm in fact surprised they didn't do it earlier.

    8600 was slightly more than Harness Magicka/Empowered Ward tool tip capped at 50% HP - and slightly less than Dampen Magicka/Hardened ward - which are capped at 60% HP - on a 17-18K HP DD. Also having no extra cooldown meant that you had it on permanently - in PvE settings the 20% proc chance meant nothing, since you have 3-4 DoTs ticking, and weave light attacks with spammable on most classes, so it would pretty much proc again right after it falls off. Casting what is basically your standard damage shield every 6s with no cost and doing some AoE damage was simply out of line with other 2p sets.

    Mother Ciannait will be balanced now with Iceheart - half the shield, but with higher up time. It's similar to the balance between other sets that grant a shield, for example Combat Physician vs. Prayer Shawl - a bigger shield on a single target vs. a smaller shield on multiple targets. All were and will be niche sets.

    17-18k hp DD? Are you serious? Standard magicka DD without any special investments into health has 20k hp without Ebon. Damn, magsorcs have over 26k with ebon and minor toughness up. That's a 15,6 Hardened Ward, almost double of Icehearts tooltip.
    Edited by Olupajmibanan on February 4, 2020 10:16AM
This discussion has been closed.