So off balance change is just to kill hard CC?

relentless_turnip · February 2020

So ZOS seem to have decided there are too many stuns in the game.
First they introduce a set that increases your damage by 25% just by breaking free of a hard cc.

This means everyone will stun with caution as now it may empower your opponent rather than controlling them...
They changed off balance so you can only stun your enemy once every 22 secs with a heavy.
In doing this they have also convinced DKs to not fossilize as there will only be benefit to it every 22 secs if you run flame lash and a gamble any other time due to the major berserk set.

I feel they are only making these changes to lessen the amount of stuns that are being performed.
I have a few theories why they would want to do this...

Firstly I feel it may be to relieve pressure on the server. Maybe when trying to improve performance they realised this was a massive issue.
To add to that maybe it is just too buggy and they can't fix it without significant work. It is a reknown joke that cc immunity is a lie and break free rarely works first time.

The tin foil hat theory is that perhaps they want to make the game more accessable *cough* "casuals"

I think less stuns definitely seems to be the route we're on. Why though I have no real certainty...

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts?

Sanguinor2 · February 2020

It´s really weird that they are so inconsistent About it. They nerf all the more easily accessible stuns but leave the class stuns alone so that some classes still have great cc but other classes have either Nothing or only garbage cc left which makes These changes prettty dumb to me. I wont be affected by it much since it Looks like magplar and magdk will Keep their ccs but magdens and magcros are *** out of luck I guess, same as stam builds that use Dizzy to have reliable cc.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

It´s really weird that they are so inconsistent About it. They nerf all the more easily accessible stuns but leave the class stuns alone so that some classes still have great cc but other classes have either Nothing or only garbage cc left which makes These changes prettty dumb to me. I wont be affected by it much since it Looks like magplar and magdk will Keep their ccs but magdens and magcros are *** out of luck I guess, same as stam builds that use Dizzy to have reliable cc.

It is super inconsistent... But not at the same time. They have lessened the amount of stuns in the game and incentivised us all not use the remaining few.
It is a sequence with an agenda, we just aren't being told what it is...

MusCanus · February 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

It´s really weird that they are so inconsistent About it. They nerf all the more easily accessible stuns but leave the class stuns alone so that some classes still have great cc but other classes have either Nothing or only garbage cc left which makes These changes prettty dumb to me. I wont be affected by it much since it Looks like magplar and magdk will Keep their ccs but magdens and magcros are *** out of luck I guess, same as stam builds that use Dizzy to have reliable cc.

It is super inconsistent... But not at the same time. They have lessened the amount of stuns in the game and incentivised us all not use the remaining few.
It is a sequence with an agenda, we just aren't being told what it is...

A "sequence", an "agenda"? Wtf are you talking about? They're removing stun from the ability that actually needs some skill to utilize, while some other abilities that are gapcloser and stun at the same time remain. It's not an "agenda", it's called idiocy and incompetence.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

MusCanus wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

It´s really weird that they are so inconsistent About it. They nerf all the more easily accessible stuns but leave the class stuns alone so that some classes still have great cc but other classes have either Nothing or only garbage cc left which makes These changes prettty dumb to me. I wont be affected by it much since it Looks like magplar and magdk will Keep their ccs but magdens and magcros are *** out of luck I guess, same as stam builds that use Dizzy to have reliable cc.

It is super inconsistent... But not at the same time. They have lessened the amount of stuns in the game and incentivised us all not use the remaining few.
It is a sequence with an agenda, we just aren't being told what it is...

A "sequence", an "agenda"? Wtf are you talking about? They're removing stun from the ability that actually needs some skill to utilize, while some other abilities that are gapcloser and stun at the same time remain. It's not an "agenda", it's called idiocy and incompetence.

You clearly haven't read the OP I don't agree with the change at all...
I am talking about a clear pattern to deter and reduce the amount of hard cc in the game.

Stun and gap closer? What are you talking about? Streak? Leap?
It would be ignorant to think this is incompetence.. it is a direction, that much is clear. The end goal is what confuses me...

xylena · February 2020

It's not on the level of cast times, but the Off-Balance nerf is horrible and should be reverted immediately.

thadjarvis · February 2020

It seems over the last year they have reduced the power or frequency of:
Main, Defile, DoTs, Bleeds, Snare, Immobilize, and Stun

and increased or maintained
Mending, Berserk, Vulnerability, Empower, Purge, Mitigation

So, they seem to be moving away from debuffs and control and more towards raw damage, healing, and mitigation. Everyone has their preference. I imagine more experienced PvP prefer the former and new PvPers think the latter is easier.

As an intermediate with two builds based on Dizzy>MA>Onslaught combos, I don't have a strong and fast position as I can understand new players' dislike of stuns (complete loss of control). However, I very much miss the other debuffs. They actually give new PvPers something to add in BG or Cyro group before they learn combos or strong builds to get the damage/healing/mitigation. They also help bring down high sustain tanky builds (without onslaught).

TheBonesXXX · February 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

So ZOS seem to have decided there are too many stuns in the game.
First they introduce a set that increases your damage by 25% just by breaking free of a hard cc.

This means everyone will stun with caution as now it may empower your opponent rather than controlling them...
They changed off balance so you can only stun your enemy once every 22 secs with a heavy.
In doing this they have also convinced DKs to not fossilize as there will only be benefit to it every 22 secs if you run flame lash and a gamble any other time due to the major berserk set.

I feel they are only making these changes to lessen the amount of stuns that are being performed.
I have a few theories why they would want to do this...

Firstly I feel it may be to relieve pressure on the server. Maybe when trying to improve performance they realised this was a massive issue.
To add to that maybe it is just too buggy and they can't fix it without significant work. It is a reknown joke that cc immunity is a lie and break free rarely works first time.

The tin foil hat theory is that perhaps they want to make the game more accessable *cough* "casuals"

I think less stuns definitely seems to be the route we're on. Why though I have no real certainty...

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts?

They took my draining shot stun -_-

Ariades_swe · February 2020

Stuns will be totally facked with the new berserk set. Whoever breaks free first will have a big chance of winning a 1v1 so ccing a person that is competent enough to not die during the time it takes to cc break will be super dangerous.
I won't use dizzy next patch because of that reason.
Depending on how popular this major berserk gonna be aoe fear will be totally busted too.

MusCanus · February 2020

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I am talking about a clear pattern to deter and reduce the amount of hard cc in the game.
Stun and gap closer? What are you talking about? Streak? Leap?

Streak, Toppling charge, Shield Charge, Leap, all can gapclose and stun. Streak is even an aoe that can't be blocked or dodged. Fossilize applies both hard CC and root. And there are more that are not going anywhere. I don't even want to mention skills that CC you passively.
Where is deterring and reducing the amount of hard cc?

The set you mentioned will be nerfed into being very average, or, knowing ZOS, into complete uselessness.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It would be ignorant to think this is incompetence.. it is a direction, that much is clear. The end goal is what confuses me...

If the direction is to break everything that still works and make this game the most unfun experience, they're doing great. If you think they have something that even remotely resembles a goal or a vision, you're either deluded or in complete denial.

Cronopoly · February 2020

Umm D.K's. core mechanic Powerlash R.I.P

I havent figured out how I'm going to...

nevermind, I blame myself for this.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

MusCanus wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I am talking about a clear pattern to deter and reduce the amount of hard cc in the game.
Stun and gap closer? What are you talking about? Streak? Leap?

Streak, Toppling charge, Shield Charge, Leap, all can gapclose and stun. Streak is even an aoe that can't be blocked or dodged. Fossilize applies both hard CC and root. And there are more that are not going anywhere. I don't even want to mention skills that CC you passively.
Where is deterring and reducing the amount of hard cc?

The set you mentioned will be nerfed into being very average, or, knowing ZOS, into complete uselessness.

relentless_turnip wrote: »

It would be ignorant to think this is incompetence.. it is a direction, that much is clear. The end goal is what confuses me...

If the direction is to break everything that still works and make this game the most unfun experience, they're doing great. If you think they have something that even remotely resembles a goal or a vision, you're either deluded or in complete denial.

I am neither under any delusion or denial. I have been in agreement with you. The only part we disagree on is whether or not they have intended to reduce CC in the game. As we have both mentioned they have removed or changed the condition of a lot of stuns. Primarily those that rely on off balance. Almost every stamina player was using dizzy, it seems if you wanted to reduce stuns this would be the first place to start.

I think it is perfectly logical to conclude they are attempting to reduce the amount of CC in the game, certainly make it less enticing to use them. My ability to digest this information seems to be a lot more coherent than yours at the moment. You're upset and that's fine so am I.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

Cronopoly wrote: »

Umm D.K's. core mechanic Powerlash R.I.P I havent figured out how I'm going to... nevermind, I blame myself for this.

I might not even use fossilize on my DK depending how popular this berserker set is. It might be better to use talons given the risk and lack of benefit you will get from using it...

relentless_turnip · February 2020

thadjarvis wrote: »

It seems over the last year they have reduced the power or frequency of:
Main, Defile, DoTs, Bleeds, Snare, Immobilize, and Stun

and increased or maintained
Mending, Berserk, Vulnerability, Empower, Purge, Mitigation

So, they seem to be moving away from debuffs and control and more towards raw damage, healing, and mitigation. Everyone has their preference. I imagine more experienced PvP prefer the former and new PvPers think the latter is easier.

As an intermediate with two builds based on Dizzy>MA>Onslaught combos, I don't have a strong and fast position as I can understand new players' dislike of stuns (complete loss of control). However, I very much miss the other debuffs. They actually give new PvPers something to add in BG or Cyro group before they learn combos or strong builds to get the damage/healing/mitigation. They also help bring down high sustain tanky builds (without onslaught).

This is a very interesting take on it... You are right of course they do seem to be reducing the amount of variety in combat.
Regardless of what they call the buff/debuff it equates to the same: more power/ less power.
Which seems like they are simplifying things.

Nyladreas · February 2020

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Stuns will be totally facked with the new berserk set. Whoever breaks free first will have a big chance of winning a 1v1 so ccing a person that is competent enough to not die during the time it takes to cc break will be super dangerous.
I won't use dizzy next patch because of that reason.
Depending on how popular this major berserk gonna be aoe fear will be totally busted too.

That set will soon be found useless cause everyone will start to eventually build around it + if you're at least semi-experienced you won't stun any opponent before you're sure you can kill them off. Also, with the crap I'm seeing lately, I'm willing to bet it's either that ^ or everyone will simply run the same set which will result in more crap.

The people that stun first and then open up will be the only ones crying for a nerf, once again due to lack of skill.

The only exception might be defensive CCs that some people rely on, and well, that's only going to result in a much more (snip) defensive backbar.

On topic: I think they should just give every class one type of hard CC that's balanced resource-wise is reliable and not buggy, remove all the rest.

(edited for inappropriate content)

Beardimus · February 2020

Suprised at the comments. Sounds like an ok thing to focus to me.

Things have been getting cc heavy in particular in the land of tanks, I'm fine with a shift up and will wait and see how it plays out.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

Does anyone know if unchained aggressor has a visual cue?

Ariades_swe · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

Ariades_swe wrote: »

Stuns will be totally facked with the new berserk set. Whoever breaks free first will have a big chance of winning a 1v1 so ccing a person that is competent enough to not die during the time it takes to cc break will be super dangerous.
I won't use dizzy next patch because of that reason.
Depending on how popular this major berserk gonna be aoe fear will be totally busted too.

That set will soon be found useless cause everyone will start to eventually build around it + if you're at least semi-experienced you won't stun any opponent before you're sure you can kill them off. Also, with the crap I'm seeing lately, I'm willing to bet it's either that ^ or everyone will simply run the same set which will result in more crap.

The people that stun first and then open up will be the only ones crying for a nerf, once again due to lack of skill.

The only exception might be defensive CCs that some people rely on, and well, that's only going to result in a much more full-ret4rd defensive backbar.

On topic: I think they should just give every class one type of hard CC that's balanced resource-wise is reliable and not buggy, remove all the rest.

So yeah stunning will be pointless against anyone with this set like I said cause if you're not an idiot you wont let your health get low enough to die during the time it takes to cc break.
Right now the main reason you use a cc vs anyone decent is defensively to break an attack or for draining someones stamina and that will be a bad move next patch if the set is gonna be popular.
They need to change dizzy back to how it is on live.

ketsparrowhawk · February 2020

Our biggest focus for this update was further improving game performance, with an emphasis on frame rate stability, ultimately resulting in fewer drops in your game’s framerate. The combat changes you’ll see support this goal..

My assumption is that it has something to do with this.

relentless_turnip · February 2020

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Our biggest focus for this update was further improving game performance, with an emphasis on frame rate stability, ultimately resulting in fewer drops in your game’s framerate. The combat changes you’ll see support this goal..

My assumption is that it has something to do with this.

Yeah this was my thoughts too.