Low Level BG twinking makes you feel absolutely hopeless, disgusted, depressed, regretful and angry.

Nyladreas · February 2020

All because of a bunch of people thinking its fun buying all their guild skills, crafting the best low level accessible gear and "Wrecking Useless Scrubs/Noobs" (yeah that's a real quote) with scores 30:0:0 K:D:A...

And don't get me started on those that even go around whispering random people they kill with things like "*** off noob, L2P scrub", tbag them or /emote shame them. I mean, I'm a vet player, I'm used to this crap. I could not care less if it was just me, IC is even more toxic than BGs.

BUT NEW PLAYERS!? DO YOU REALIZE, ZOS WHAT THIS DOES TO NEW PLAYERS THAT WANNA TRY OUT THIS GAME? HOW HOPELESS IT LEAVES THEM? HOW THIS HURTS FUTURE PVP POPULATION?

There should be some sort of pre-set limited attribute cap/pre-set gear. Yes, seriously!!! My friend literally just uninstalled the game and went offline after a few low level BG sessions, despite having lots of fun in the couple of first ones. All because of how unfair the game was to him, making him feel useless, defenseless, abused and wasting his free time. This event is a nightmare to newcomers, since people hop on their overbuffed alts and even team up as a full pre-made.

This is soooooooooooooooooo excruciatingly painful to watch and experience. Please DO something about this in the future.

Neoealth · February 2020

I don't take PVP in this game very seriously. It's so unbalanced and cheese build happy, plus the bad performance.

That's the secret, don't take it seriously, then you won't get upset. When people get toxic I tend to just cringe for them and move on. The ones calling people noobs/scrubs etc are probably not very mature in real life, so if being better at killing me in pvp makes them feel good about themselves, then I'll just leave them too it. I don't allow it to affect me.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

They are trying with the solo-only queues but there isn't a good enough way to separate people into proper leagues where they can be matched up with opponents against whom they have a 50/50 chance.
And numbers can't tell who's looking to kill newbs versus who's looking for a worthy opponent.
And now ZOS has complicated matters because it's starting to look like this is one of their cash cows.

JumpmanLane · February 2020

I never understood why anyone who was actually good at the game would bother rolling a new toon, completely gear it out all gold everything. Buy the skill lines (now)and run fully min/maxed builds and play under 50...for example.

I unno, maybe it’s little kids. Lol

MusCanus · February 2020

Maybe they're not all twinks? My record in under 50 lvl BGs was 37-0 on my very first toon. Was able to break it only well after 810 cp.

Under 50 lvl BGs are very mild in general, nightmare begins when you hit you first CP. Below 160 cp was the most hardcore ass whooping I've ever had in pvp. First tries to duel folks at Bergama was close second.

Mancombe_Nosehair · February 2020

Instead of doing random, try the land grab or flag games. I prefer the former; you don't get points for fighting.

WoppaBoem · February 2020

Players under 50 new to the game should be questing, doing random dungeons. Below level 50 is for new characters not really for new players.

JumpmanLane · February 2020

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Players under 50 new to the game should be questing, doing random dungeons. Below level 50 is for new characters not really for new players.

Nah...folks rolling new toon’s are generally in Skyreach or something, grinding up to 50. We’re not talking about people like that anyways. We’re talking about people rolling new toon’s JUST to play in under 50. Often, they gold out low level gear, buy skill lines etc, just to do it.

In a similar vein, folks roll low level toons, allot their cp, and challenge PvE players to duels lol. It’s crazy.

redspecter23 · February 2020

It isn't just lowbie BG. Even in high BG you will sometimes get completely outclassed. If there were a proper account wide MMR implemented that would go up or down based on wins/losses this would probably happen a lot less and MMR should be easier to track accurately in a solo only queue.

newtinmpls · February 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

ZOS has complicated matters because it's starting to look like this is one of their cash cows.

Well, they did open up housing when it became apparent that folks would pay actual $$.

How is BG a cash cow?

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

newtinmpls wrote: »

How is BG a cash cow?

Supposing people are correct that certain players are re-rolling toons and buying skill lines to max them out.
Each time they reroll a toon, they'd have to buy those skill lines, skyshard skill points, etcetera all over. You can only stay under 50 so long. And none of it is giftable, so getting it gifted in exchange for gold isn't an option. Even if it were, those crowns are still coming from someone's real money.

newtinmpls · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

To show even when you're a winner, you can still be a loser.

Reminds me of being a newbie wandering around in IC, trying to avoid trouble. Some big name streamer killed my 14th level character, then hunted me down at base a bunch more times - like I was any challenge at all for his super-mega leveled&CP'ed BIS monster. Tried to ignore, wave white flag, head to other parts of the IC, but apparently BIS-for-Brains was looking to bully, not adventure.

Basically he was just being a jerk and picking on someone who absolutely could not compete.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

It isn't just lowbie BG. Even in high BG you will sometimes get completely outclassed. If there were a proper account wide MMR implemented that would go up or down based on wins/losses this would probably happen a lot less and MMR should be easier to track accurately in a solo only queue.

However that would mean if you did actually have a lowbie toon (e.g. you rolled a new toon to try a new class) you couldn't get a proper match because your high MMR is account wide. People who genuinely wanted to play lowbie 50 "properly" couldn't.

I think it's very hard for any numerically objective system to do two things that we need: (1) discern motive (2) avoid exploitation.

MaleAmazon · February 2020

I never understood why anyone who was actually good at the game would bother rolling a new toon, completely gear it out all gold everything. Buy the skill lines (now)and run fully min/maxed builds and play under 50...for example.

Well, I have *bows head in shame* so maybe I can shed some light. Now I don´t buy skill lines, however why do I play sub-50 BGs?

Because I play on a sub-50 character. (Levelling for one of my weirdo builds.)

And in order to level that character up, that´s where you´ll end up. The XP bonus is really big. Also I want to level skillines. And TBH when I random queue BGs I tend to wind up vs premades; I certainly don´t dominate. I very rarely see 'newbie-newbies'. It isn´t really a power trip (well maybe a little, but I don´t PM people)...

The fundamental problem is that ZOS don´t separate newbies and experienced players. Your character level says some things, but not that much. I´ve seen CP160+s who basically don´t know how to block.

I am way in favour of implementing actual newbie PvP. So far, ZOS has not implemented it, and of course the PvP events that are supposed to encourage PvP seem to be having just the opposite effect, long-term.

FierceSam · February 2020

Neoealth wrote: »

I don't take PVP in this game very seriously. It's so unbalanced and cheese build happy, plus the bad performance.

That's the secret, don't take it seriously, then you won't get upset. When people get toxic I tend to just cringe for them and move on. The ones calling people noobs/scrubs etc are probably not very mature in real life, so if being better at killing me in pvp makes them feel good about themselves, then I'll just leave them too it. I don't allow it to affect me.

Actually I believe the secret is Just Don’t Do It

TX12001rwb17_ESO · February 2020

Revel in the fact that a lot of these PvP players are just as vulnerable in PvE as you are in PvP, I even told one to go and solo a world boss and they could not do it because all they have is burst damage.

Dusk_Coven · February 2020

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I am way in favour of implementing actual newbie PvP. So far, ZOS has not implemented it, and of course the PvP events that are supposed to encourage PvP seem to be having just the opposite effect, long-term.

My guess is under-50 BG is supposed to be that "newbie PvP". Except it's really hard to discover who's a newbie and who isn't.
Possibly a separate queue for people who are under-50 AND haven't earned any CP on their account. But I bet someone's still gonna be able to find an exploit, like having a friend hand them gear and being careful not to hit level 50 before erasing their toon. I wouldn't put it past people to buy a new account just to do that. You don't need any DLCs or expansions to BG.

MaleAmazon · February 2020

My guess is under-50 BG is supposed to be that "newbie PvP". Except it's really hard to discover who's a newbie and who isn't.
Possibly a separate queue for people who are under-50 AND haven't earned any CP on their account. But I bet someone's still gonna be able to find an exploit, like having a friend hand them gear and being careful not to hit level 50 before erasing their toon. I wouldn't put it past people to buy a new account just to do that. You don't need any DLCs or expansions to BG.

Yeah. It was *always* like that, though. My 1st PvP experience was kind-of-shortly after the game came out. I had managed to get some blue gear (gasp!) and thought I´d try it out. I remember jumping someone from behind near an outpost, spamming attacks - and taking like 5% off their HP...

I don´t know if there has ever been real newbie PvP and I don´t know how to solve it. Just off the top of my head I´d say having a 20-hour account-wide limit on a separate BG queue which only queues you up vs other PvPers in a free-for-all or something? Having a separate PvP Battlegrounds mode where you can resurrect yourself but you do not gain any AP or XP (which would discourage most, if perhaps not all, newb-killers)?

Something like that.

Unless ZOS put the effort in to actually create newbie-only zones, I don´t see true newbie PvP happening.

geonsocal · February 2020

MusCanus wrote: »

Under 50 lvl BGs are very mild in general, nightmare begins when you hit you first CP. Below 160 cp was the most hardcore ass whooping I've ever had in pvp.

I pretty much had a set of cp160 gear (including monster sets) all ready and waiting for 7 toons (kept them all at around the same level) i created on the second server for my platform - however, my gear was still all level 40 something until I actually hit cp160...

on top of that I had used battlegrounds to level (random dailies) each toon so my mmr is pretty high...

cp1 to cp 159 was a humbling experience...

idk · February 2020

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Players under 50 new to the game should be questing, doing random dungeons. Below level 50 is for new characters not really for new players.

Each is to their own. When the game first launched there were players who leveled in Cyroiil and did not want to do quests. However, I really doubt sub 50 BGs is filled with highly experienced players in gold gear as has been depicted to a degree. I fully expect there are some players to like sub 50 PvP and others that use it to level new characters. Such is life in MMORPGs and will continue to be so.

SydneyGrey · February 2020

Turn off whispers when you do Battlegrounds. You'll be happier.

But yeah, this is why I still haven't attempted Battlegrounds. It's literally the only part of ESO that I haven't tried yet.

MusCanus · February 2020

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Revel in the fact that a lot of these PvP players are just as vulnerable in PvE as you are in PvP, I even told one to go and solo a world boss and they could not do it because all they have is burst damage.

Lol, I think that's bad example, quite sure most can solo WBs and basic group dungeons. Doing decent dps on the other hand can be quite a challenge. Have never been able to do even 25k to a target dummy, how ppl are pulling 50, 70, 80 or even 30k is beyond me.

FierceSam · February 2020

It will be interesting to see whether Midyear Mayhem actually encourages players to continue doing BGs.

And whether the changes to the BG finder which mean you can’t go in with friends have a positive or negative effect.

While it’s all very well to ‘tell’ newer players that they will ‘enjoy’ PvP once they’ve ‘got gud’, the learning curve is so steep and the process so unpleasant that I’m not sure many will be bothered. And PvP will continue to bathe in its own small, toxic morass.

HumbleThaumaturge · February 2020

I once created a post on the Forum talking about how under-level-50 Cyrodiil and Battle Grounds (PvP) is now pay-to-win because of the ability to purchase skyshard skillpoints and completed skill trees on the Crown Store. ZOS deleted my post.

But it's true: There are players who only play under-level-50 PvP (that's their thing). They are not interested in leveling-up characters. In fact, they avoid leveling-up by avoiding XP (by avoiding quests and NPC kills and by not grouping in Cyrodiil to avoid shared XP). There have even been guilds of like-minded players who love to be over-powered in under-level-50 PvP.

If I could ask ZOS to make just one change, it would be this: Block any character from entering under-level-50 Cyrodiil or Battle Grounds (PvP) if that character has purchased skyshard skillpoints or any skill tree via the Crown Store. Simple.

No matter how these (professional under-level-50) players achieve their over-powered status, it might be very good to establish "caps" on character stats in under-level-50 PvP (i.e., a cap on a weighted average accounting for weapon damage, spell damage, weapon crit, spell crit, physical resistance, spell resistance, crit resistance, and regens).

Ri_Khan · February 2020

BG's is some of the lowest quality PVP I've ever experienced. It's a troll magnet. If ZOS intentions for creating this mode was to concentrate the largest number of exploiting mouth-breather try-hards on the internet into one place, they have surely succeeded.

idk · February 2020

People were complaining about supposed twinking well before we could buy certain skill lines. It appears very overblown. Yes, I am sure there are some players that do have good sets ready for their next character but that is not the majority of us that use BGs some when we level up characters. Even less would be buying skill lines because it is fairly expensive.

With that, I understand the frustration that a new player would have going up against a player with more experience but that is life in an MMORPG PvP match. I have yet to see an MMORPG have a PvP section just for those who are new to the game and have little idea of how to play.

Some people are lost in their fires, others are forged in them.

Freakin_Hytte · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

All because of a bunch of people thinking its fun buying all their guild skills, crafting the best low level accessible gear and "Wrecking Useless Scrubs/Noobs" (yeah that's a real quote) with scores 30:0:0 K:D:A...

And don't get me started on those that even go around whispering random people they kill with things like "*** off noob, L2P scrub", tbag them or /emote shame them. I mean, I'm a vet player, I'm used to this crap. I could not care less if it was just me, IC is even more toxic than BGs.

BUT NEW PLAYERS!? DO YOU REALIZE, ZOS WHAT THIS DOES TO NEW PLAYERS THAT WANNA TRY OUT THIS GAME? HOW HOPELESS IT LEAVES THEM? HOW THIS HURTS FUTURE PVP POPULATION?

There should be some sort of pre-set limited attribute cap/pre-set gear. Yes, seriously!!! My friend literally just uninstalled the game and went offline after a few low level BG sessions, despite having lots of fun in the couple of first ones. All because of how unfair the game was to him, making him feel useless, defenseless, abused and wasting his free time. This event is a nightmare to newcomers, since people hop on their overbuffed alts and even team up as a full pre-made.

This is soooooooooooooooooo excruciatingly painful to watch and experience. Please DO something about this in the future.

95% of the players aren't twinks. I've never even seen anyone that redo new chars in order to play below 50 bgs. Sure the few that exist are probably very bad players who can't cope dying so much in regular pvp and yes it's quite pathetic. The ones you face are most likely players who are creating a new char, probably a pvp char. Sure they use crafted training sets since they want to shorten the lvling period as much as possible, yes it can be fun to smash people in below 50 bgs, but the only reason I'm there is to lvl my alliance and get the xp bonus.

And the whole thing about buying skill lines, you can max out every skill line before lvl 50 except for undaunted. I usually do it around lvl 10, so that the skills I want to use are morphed and ready when I hit lvl 50, so no its not unfair to other players, since they can max out their skill lines early if they want to.

Putting restrictions won't change a thing, those players that get 20+ kills will still get 20+ kills because they are most likely good at pvp.

TeamSeinfeld · February 2020

I mean I’ve taken my level 10 toons in there, Helter skelter gear, forgot food, everything in the wrong trait, nothing impenetrable and laugh when I get whispers at how poor I am. I just laugh it off and remember the player name. When I get them on my main, I’ll just take care of business. And no mercy.

BackStabeth · February 2020

Neoealth wrote: »

I don't take PVP in this game very seriously. It's so unbalanced and cheese build happy, plus the bad performance.

That's the secret, don't take it seriously, then you won't get upset. When people get toxic I tend to just cringe for them and move on. The ones calling people noobs/scrubs etc are probably not very mature in real life, so if being better at killing me in pvp makes them feel good about themselves, then I'll just leave them too it. I don't allow it to affect me.

Naw, secret to happiness is not to do anything that makes you not happy. We cannot help how we feel, emotions are something that happens, that we have no control of, you cannot stop your emotions. People make PvP personal, on purpose and ZoS doesn't have the labor to invest in making sure people behave. We can only help what we do after feeling an emotion, and since ZoS is not going to ensure people don't grief why put yourself in a position where someone is going to try to make you feel something you don't want to feel?.

I don't play ESO to feel bad, so I don't engage in PvP because there are a lot, not everyone but enough people who behave poorly to make it a thing, gankers, griefers, people trolling for tears, hateful nasty people looking for victims and easy kills. People generally speaking are not looking for a fair fight, they are hoping to come across someone AFK so they can gank them, or running around in groups ganking single PvP questers. People are toxic in PvP, far more than PVE. It's old, it's tired, I bought the T-Shirt 20 years ago and wore it out before a lot of these so called PvPers were even born.

If you try PvP and someone treats you in a way that isn't acceptable, just don't engage in PVP, ever. After 20+ years of PvP play in MMOs, I'm just done with it. People just coming into PvP are just waaaay too toxic for me to enjoy any of it, so why bother with it at all? I'm not here for other people to make me miserable for their enjoyment, I am not going to encourage antisocial sociopath behavior.

And if you are someone who does engage in PvP and you treat people poorly. You are the reason there are not more people engaging in PvP. You are the problem, not ZoS, not people who PVE not anything or anyone else. Toxic people are the problem with PvP, as always. They won't stop because it's the very reason they engage in PvP, they can do and say all those things to other people they would get their teeth knocked out of their head for in real life.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

All because of a bunch of people thinking its fun buying all their guild skills, crafting the best low level accessible gear and "Wrecking Useless Scrubs/Noobs" (yeah that's a real quote) with scores 30:0:0 K:D:A...

And don't get me started on those that even go around whispering random people they kill with things like "*** off noob, L2P scrub", tbag them or /emote shame them. I mean, I'm a vet player, I'm used to this crap. I could not care less if it was just me, IC is even more toxic than BGs.

BUT NEW PLAYERS!? DO YOU REALIZE, ZOS WHAT THIS DOES TO NEW PLAYERS THAT WANNA TRY OUT THIS GAME? HOW HOPELESS IT LEAVES THEM? HOW THIS HURTS FUTURE PVP POPULATION?

There should be some sort of pre-set limited attribute cap/pre-set gear. Yes, seriously!!! My friend literally just uninstalled the game and went offline after a few low level BG sessions, despite having lots of fun in the couple of first ones. All because of how unfair the game was to him, making him feel useless, defenseless, abused and wasting his free time. This event is a nightmare to newcomers, since people hop on their overbuffed alts and even team up as a full pre-made.

This is soooooooooooooooooo excruciatingly painful to watch and experience. Please DO something about this in the future.

The game probably isn't for them if they uninstalled after a few BGs even after they won or at least enjoyed the ones before that

MaGicBush · February 2020

So I take back my last post. I ran into a pre-made group last night that slaughtered the rest of us. Literally only managed to kill one of them the entire match. It was essentially 8v4, and yet we could only manage to get 1. What a lame match.