It's technically possible that they could pack all 5 active abilities into the transformation ultimate (more comparable to Volendrung than Werewolf, because the skills wouldn't need to be unlocked, leveled, or morphed). There are pros and cons to that approach, but if you really weigh the factors and consider past precedent, two separate skill lines seems far more likely.

Honestly, I just really hope they don't do anything to the dark stalker passive. Being able to run around full speed in stealth is one of the best parts of being a blood sucker

ZOS is already ruining the allure of the Vampire Lord by making it common and then they outright change the feeding mechanics, sure the latter is a welcome change but the former, that is a problem.

For one thing It is called "Lord" for a reason, the Vampire Lord is not called a "Blood Scion" and in Harkon's own words, what a King is to his Subject, a Vampire Lord is to other Vampires and yet ZOS is making them common which decreases their allure, Lamae Bal should not even have that power, Harkon does not descend from her, he was turned by Molag Bal as well, the Volkihar are a different breed of Vampire just as a Werebear cannot be a Werewolf Lord or how a Werewolf cannot be a Werebear Lord, it also makes Harkon in Skyrim not seem special anymore despite him being a DLC protagonist.

Secondly the Vestige was not turned by Molag Bal or turned by someone someone who was turned by Molag Bal, your at the very best a 3rd generation Vampire turned by a Bloodfiend or a 4th generation Vampire if turned by a player and that is a BIG, that should be way too thin-blooded to even be one.

Thirdly it diminishes the potential achievements of the Last Dragonborn but then again they already diminished those of the Champion of Cyrodiil by creating that "Interview with Haskill" thing now didn't they, saying he did not become a God and was just another vestige like Haskill when Im pretty sure Oblivion implies he did.

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS is already ruining the allure of the Vampire Lord by making it common and then they outright change the feeding mechanics, sure the latter is a welcome change but the former, that is a problem.

For one thing It is called "Lord" for a reason, the Vampire Lord is not called a "Blood Scion" and in Harkon's own words, what a King is to his Subject, a Vampire Lord is to other Vampires and yet ZOS is making them common which decreases their allure, Lamae Bal should not even have that power, Harkon does not descend from her, he was turned by Molag Bal as well, the Volkihar are a different breed of Vampire just as a Werebear cannot be a Werewolf Lord or how a Werewolf cannot be a Werebear Lord, it also makes Harkon in Skyrim not seem special anymore despite him being a DLC protagonist.

Secondly the Vestige was not turned by Molag Bal or turned by someone someone who was turned by Molag Bal, your at the very best a 3rd generation Vampire turned by a Bloodfiend or a 4th generation Vampire if turned by a player and that is a BIG, that should be way too thin-blooded to even be one.

Thirdly it diminishes the potential achievements of the Last Dragonborn but then again they already diminished those of the Champion of Cyrodiil by creating that "Interview with Haskill" thing now didn't they, saying he did not become a God and was just another vestige like Haskill when Im pretty sure Oblivion implies he did.

The are specific to use the term Scion to differentiate them from Lords. Two different things

Noxavian wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

It's pretty safe to assume that Blood Scion will be its own skill line, separate from Vampire. We will need a transformation ulti and 5 skills to use while in Blood Scion form. Assume a mag (flying) and stam (grounded) morph of the ulti and each skill, if they're really doing it right. And then you still need Vampire skills to use in regular humanoid form, so expect 3 new skills to the main Vampire line.

We can also assume that Blood Scion will probably be an optional add-on to Vampire, not mandatory on all vamps, if they follow the implementation in Skyrim.

So that leaves me wondering whether the feeding reversal is going to occur on all vampires, or only those accepting the Blood Scion line. Leaving both forms of feeding available to vampire players with different preferences would be the coolest thing to do here for players. It would be a really cool way to differentiate the two different varieties of vampire in the world. The only practical difference for most of us will be which drink to chug, but vampires that feed manually for RP purposes or whatever would really feel a visceral change in their condition.

Nope, it's going to be the new vampire skill line.

I personally know literally less than 10 people that like the way current vampire is played genuinely. Aside from that, I'm led to believe that if you don't want the vampire changes to happen then you're just in it for the free stuff and shouldn't be the person the vampire rework is even catered to.


With that said, I would NOT be against it if they went this route as I very much agree more options is better for everybody.

However, I will also say that the rework they're planning on doing to vamp is more than likely done already. Which means the few people asking for them to not revert changing will have to wait till it at least gets on PTS before spouting their opinions.

they said on eso live that they were reworking lamae bal's questline and her bloodline will be able to become vampire lords/blood scions. I believe the vampire rework was stated to be base game. I guess that the current bat ult will be replaced with the vampire lord ult

They quite literally said this on stream, yeah. The current bat ult is gone, fwoosh.

As far aa i know, vampires in es lore never had an association with bats to begin with, aside from the vampire snowelf armor in skyrim using bat motifs on the chest piece that is, so i always thought that was a bit cartoonish of an ability for vamps and will be glad if its gone.

Iccotak wrote: »

did no one watch the reveal show?
You can check youtube for all info

Does no one remember history? Devs obscure and hide details literally every single time something new comes out. I watched the reveal show and if you actually pay attention they tip-toed around the phrasing throughout the whole show, leaving plenty of ambiguity about implementation. A single skill line approach would require an unprecedented use of the skill system, would be inconsistent with how similar abilities are handled with existing tools, robs players of numerous character build choices, and robs the devs of an awesome chance to creatively represent two different vampire strains in game. Would they give all of that up just to cram everything into the ultimate instead of fleshing out a proper Blood Scion skill line? Maybe. They've done weird and dumb things in the past, so I wouldn't put it past them. But I doubt it.

Noxavian wrote: »

Imagine people thinking us getting something like vampire lord is BaD when we're literally turned by the mother of all vampires herself. I'd argue she's actually more powerful/special than Harkon.

People that don't understand this are just whining for no reason and I'm satisfied that the devs aren't going to take their opinions into consideration.

Agreed, there are zero lore problems here.

Iccotak wrote: »

@SidewalkChalk5
there was nothing vague about what they said concerning Vampirism. They made very clear statements.
They said;
- This is a Rework of the existing Vampire skill line

They are still reworking the original skill line, in either case. That does not imply that's all they're doing.

Iccotak wrote: »

Blood Scion is the ultimate coming with the rework. A gift from Lamae Bal, the Mother of Vampires

Yes, Blood Scion is an ultimate. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's the only ultimate and Bats will go away.

Iccotak wrote: »

They want to change up the play style of the skill line so that you actually have to engage at being a vampire

Yeah, that's still consistent with either approach. Literally nothing you cited rules out one approach or the other. Nothing they said in the entire reveal show did. They were hesitant and tripping over words, trying not to say too much.

Iccotak wrote: »

also imo two vampire skill lines sounds redundant.

Well, one would be Vampire and the other would be Blood Scion. They'd be different. Vampire would have skills and passives usable for humanoid form. The skills in the Blood Scion line would be things only the Blood Scion form can do. No matter what, they must design 5 specific skills to use in the Blood Scion form. They won't be throwing Sweeps and Force Pulses and Steel Tornados, right? The only question here is whether those skills will be delivered through a distinct skill line (like Werewolf) or crammed all into the transformation ulti (like Volendrung). As a dev myself, I see pros and cons to both approaches, and both are possible, but it's weighed heavily on the side of a separate skill line. (There's only one "pro" or advantage for the Volendrung approach, and it has multiple disadvantages to the superior Werewolf-style implementation)

Iccotak wrote: »

Lamae Bal is the Mother Vampires - she was the first. As far as I am concerned that gives her lots of room in the lore for unique abilities.

Yes.

Aliyavana wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

It's pretty safe to assume that Blood Scion will be its own skill line, separate from Vampire. We will need a transformation ulti and 5 skills to use while in Blood Scion form. Assume a mag (flying) and stam (grounded) morph of the ulti and each skill, if they're really doing it right. And then you still need Vampire skills to use in regular humanoid form, so expect 3 new skills to the main Vampire line.

We can also assume that Blood Scion will probably be an optional add-on to Vampire, not mandatory on all vamps, if they follow the implementation in Skyrim.

So that leaves me wondering whether the feeding reversal is going to occur on all vampires, or only those accepting the Blood Scion line. Leaving both forms of feeding available to vampire players with different preferences would be the coolest thing to do here for players. It would be a really cool way to differentiate the two different varieties of vampire in the world. The only practical difference for most of us will be which drink to chug, but vampires that feed manually for RP purposes or whatever would really feel a visceral change in their condition.

Nope, it's going to be the new vampire skill line.

I personally know literally less than 10 people that like the way current vampire is played genuinely. Aside from that, I'm led to believe that if you don't want the vampire changes to happen then you're just in it for the free stuff and shouldn't be the person the vampire rework is even catered to.


With that said, I would NOT be against it if they went this route as I very much agree more options is better for everybody.

However, I will also say that the rework they're planning on doing to vamp is more than likely done already. Which means the few people asking for them to not revert changing will have to wait till it at least gets on PTS before spouting their opinions.

they said on eso live that they were reworking lamae bal's questline and her bloodline will be able to become vampire lords/blood scions. I believe the vampire rework was stated to be base game. I guess that the current bat ult will be replaced with the vampire lord ult

Im eager to see if there is some group utility with having a Vampire in your group, or if it will be a mostly solo based like we're used to.

Iccotak wrote: »

@SidewalkChalk5
there was nothing vague about what they said concerning Vampirism. They made very clear statements.
They said;
- This is a Rework of the existing Vampire skill line
- Blood Scion is the ultimate coming with the rework. A gift from Lamae Bal, the Mother of Vampires
- They want to change up the play style of the skill line so that you actually have to engage at being a vampire
These were explicitly stated. Until the dev build comes out, we are going to have to take what they said at face value.

A single skill line approach would require an unprecedented use of the skill system, would be inconsistent with how similar abilities are handled with existing tools, robs players of numerous character build choices, and robs the devs of an awesome chance to creatively represent two different vampire strains in game.

You can have that opinion but I would wait until the reworked skill line becomes available to test out before judging it

also imo two vampire skill lines sounds redundant.

@TX12001rwb17_ESO
Lamae Bal is the Mother Vampires - she was the first. As far as I am concerned that gives her lots of room in the lore for unique abilities.

Lamae Bal is NOT the mother of all Vampires, she was only the first Vampire which ultimately means nothing because only a few clans are actually descended from her, the Volkihar are a completely different strain of Vampire just like how a Werewolf is different from Werebear.

Harkon, Serana, Valerica, Venrandis Ravenatch, none of them have anything to do with Lamae Bal, they are all Pureblooded Vampires turned directly by Molag Bal, the former would likely try to kill her on sight and use her blood for a certain purpose, infact ever wonder why Lamae Bal just so happens to be in Coldharbour?

It means someone must have already succeeded in slaying her so I guess she isn't that tough, Harkon however was stated by Valerica to have slaughtered hundreds who had tried to slay him and he lived all the way up to the 4th era, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 Souls to Molag Bal to earn that power.

Noxavian wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

@SidewalkChalk5
there was nothing vague about what they said concerning Vampirism. They made very clear statements.
They said;
- This is a Rework of the existing Vampire skill line
- Blood Scion is the ultimate coming with the rework. A gift from Lamae Bal, the Mother of Vampires
- They want to change up the play style of the skill line so that you actually have to engage at being a vampire
These were explicitly stated. Until the dev build comes out, we are going to have to take what they said at face value.

A single skill line approach would require an unprecedented use of the skill system, would be inconsistent with how similar abilities are handled with existing tools, robs players of numerous character build choices, and robs the devs of an awesome chance to creatively represent two different vampire strains in game.

You can have that opinion but I would wait until the reworked skill line becomes available to test out before judging it

also imo two vampire skill lines sounds redundant.

@TX12001rwb17_ESO
Lamae Bal is the Mother Vampires - she was the first. As far as I am concerned that gives her lots of room in the lore for unique abilities.

Lamae Bal is NOT the mother of all Vampires, she was only the first Vampire which ultimately means nothing because only a few clans are actually descended from her, the Volkihar are a completely different strain of Vampire just like how a Werewolf is different from Werebear.

Harkon, Serana, Valerica, Venrandis Ravenatch, none of them have anything to do with Lamae Bal, they are all Pureblooded Vampires turned directly by Molag Bal, the former would likely try to kill her on sight and use her blood for a certain purpose, infact ever wonder why Lamae Bal just so happens to be in Coldharbour?

It means someone must have already succeeded in slaying her so I guess she isn't that tough, Harkon however was stated by Valerica to have slaughtered hundreds who had tried to slay him and he lived all the way up to the 4th era, he was a King who sacrificed 1000 Souls to Molag Bal to earn that power.

Nope, she is the mother of all vampires.

They literally said every strand of vampirism came from her in the reveal stream.

I thought it was said she could account for any kind of vampiric ability?

Anyways given Lamae is the symbolic first vampire she might have a lot more power then other vampires and there might be many that see her as a religious figure amount their kind as being the first.
There might be vampires that think they only come from Lamae and might not consider the possibility their bloodline might come from some deal some mortal made like Harkon to become a vampire. So I do think there is some of that going on as well. Some vampires might actually believe they all come from Lamae and dismiss any other possibility. So to many vampires she might actually be the mother of them all. Even if she isn't. So it would make sense for a some of vampires to think that.

But her being the only source and the mother of all vampire strains she isn't. I do have to agree with TX12001rwb17_ESO
As Molag Bal did turn Harkon and his family not Lamae. He turned Verendis Ravenwatch possibly as well. But if willingly or unwilling is unknown on him.

I do think many blood lines do think of Lamae as the mother of vampires and have her in high regard because of this. So I do think she plays a big part in some vampiric religious practices. Like several clans of High Rock and the Cyrodiil vampires themselves though they have Vile as their patron they honor Molag Bal for Allowing Lamae to exist or something. So even though she is considered the mother doens't mean she is responsible for all vampire strains.
Not even Molag bal is responsible for all of them as clearly Alchemy can be used to make vampires. Going by Lore added in the Summerset chapter.
Its also hinted that Sangiin might be responsible for vampirism among the Khajiit given one book talks about him tempting khajiit to make their flesh immortal or something and hes the literal God of Blood in their religion . https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Worldly_Spirits

So its likely not every race believes Molag Bal is the origin and father of vampires and because of the Mythical nature of reality it might also be as true as Molag Bal being the source of most vampires. If they believe another prince was responsible.

A while back I posted this thread that goes into detail on the alchemy vampire listing all the sources for information and lore on the subject that I could find. It really is interesting and since Eso is canon vampires created by alchemy is also canon. So I do recommend players looking at it because it really is interesting. But don't read it if you don't want to spoil the full quest if you haven't done it but basically its about the creation of an alchemy vampire.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/481434/what-are-your-thoughts-on-alchemical-vampirism-contains-spoilers-for-murder-in-lillandril