How did harmony not receive a nerf?

Fawn4287 · January 2020

With 3 pieces of gold jewellery in the harmony trait you get a whopping 105% increase to and from synergies, this is just an insane number when compared to other jewellery traits including those that have been nerfed. The other major issue with the self procced graveyard synergy, it allows any magnecro to drop out a huge 10k AOE hit for the sacrifice of a mere ~2600 rough stats. It should be brought in to line with bloodthirsty and offer 10% on gold jewellery considering in group play (which nearly all PVP and PVE is) you will get more use and uptime from harmony than bloodthirsty.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

GIven performance becomes worse the longer combat lasts in cyrodiil I don't know maybe since it does seem to hinder that unkillable player that keeps on fighting if they have op damage abilties to counter that type of meta might help with keeping fights from dragging on to long. I don't know but they have their reasons and they can't just keep nerfing everything.

. Since this pts seems more focused on performance then balance. It seems they are waiting for maybe the chapter update possibly for balance. But they might balance it out I don't know. They just can't keep focusing on ruining builds. It makes it look like they can't make up their minds on certain things.
Personally I don't know fully how the mechanic fully works. But possibly maybe it helps players to much I don't on that. But if it helps give high damage to necro graveyards then well that could help with unkillable builds going on in Cyrodiil and maybe help keep fights from getting so long so maybe a boon for having such high damage. Is to limit how long fights last. *Shrugs*

Mr_Walker · January 2020

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Fawn4287 · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

GIven performance becomes worse the longer combat lasts in cyrodiil I don't know maybe since it does seem to hinder that unkillable player that keeps on fighting if they have op damage abilties to counter that type of meta might help with keeping fights from dragging on to long. I don't know but they have their reasons and they can't just keep nerfing everything.

. Since this pts seems more focused on performance then balance. It seems they are waiting for maybe the chapter update possibly for balance. But they might balance it out I don't know. They just can't keep focusing on ruining builds. It makes it look like they can't make up their minds on certain things.
Personally I don't know fully how the mechanic fully works. But possibly maybe it helps players to much I don't on that. But if it helps give high damage to necro graveyards then well that could help with unkillable builds going on in Cyrodiil and maybe help keep fights from getting so long so maybe a boon for having such high damage. Is to limit how long fights last. *Shrugs*

Its a way to sell players the better pay to win classes

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Its actually the total opposite the ballgroups are unkillable they run 8 healers cycling practiced incantation and 2 magcro bombers and half drop nova which the magcro synergise too. Whatever you claim is to kill ballgroups, eg. Borrowed time, bombers, shifting standard, negate etc. is not used ever by the average solo zergling or zerg surfer, but certainly by every ball group

Joy_Division · January 2020

You want a gold Harmony ring to increase synergy effectiveness by 10%?

LOL, and I thought ZOS swung an unreasonable nerf bat.

Mr_Walker · January 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

GIven performance becomes worse the longer combat lasts in cyrodiil I don't know maybe since it does seem to hinder that unkillable player that keeps on fighting if they have op damage abilties to counter that type of meta might help with keeping fights from dragging on to long. I don't know but they have their reasons and they can't just keep nerfing everything.

. Since this pts seems more focused on performance then balance. It seems they are waiting for maybe the chapter update possibly for balance. But they might balance it out I don't know. They just can't keep focusing on ruining builds. It makes it look like they can't make up their minds on certain things.
Personally I don't know fully how the mechanic fully works. But possibly maybe it helps players to much I don't on that. But if it helps give high damage to necro graveyards then well that could help with unkillable builds going on in Cyrodiil and maybe help keep fights from getting so long so maybe a boon for having such high damage. Is to limit how long fights last. *Shrugs*

Its a way to sell players the better pay to win classes

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Its actually the total opposite the ballgroups are unkillable they run 8 healers cycling practiced incantation and 2 magcro bombers and half drop nova which the magcro synergise too. Whatever you claim is to kill ballgroups, eg. Borrowed time, bombers, shifting standard, negate etc. is not used ever by the average solo zergling or zerg surfer, but certainly by every ball group

Ballgroups are not unkillable. I've run in pugs that do it. Quit sooking and trying to get everything nerfed. No wonder the game is a morass of crap.

Fawn4287 · January 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

You want a gold Harmony ring to increase synergy effectiveness by 10%?

LOL, and I thought ZOS swung an unreasonable nerf bat.

Bombers should be glass cannons in divines to get kills like magblades, not half tanks with a sword and board in all impen carried by 1 ability and an unbalanced trait

ArchMikem · January 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Synergies + Harmony build takes out EVERYONE, whether youre in a group or by yourself. Its not a niche build, its an "I win" button.

Fawn4287 · January 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

GIven performance becomes worse the longer combat lasts in cyrodiil I don't know maybe since it does seem to hinder that unkillable player that keeps on fighting if they have op damage abilties to counter that type of meta might help with keeping fights from dragging on to long. I don't know but they have their reasons and they can't just keep nerfing everything.

. Since this pts seems more focused on performance then balance. It seems they are waiting for maybe the chapter update possibly for balance. But they might balance it out I don't know. They just can't keep focusing on ruining builds. It makes it look like they can't make up their minds on certain things.
Personally I don't know fully how the mechanic fully works. But possibly maybe it helps players to much I don't on that. But if it helps give high damage to necro graveyards then well that could help with unkillable builds going on in Cyrodiil and maybe help keep fights from getting so long so maybe a boon for having such high damage. Is to limit how long fights last. *Shrugs*

Its a way to sell players the better pay to win classes

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Its actually the total opposite the ballgroups are unkillable they run 8 healers cycling practiced incantation and 2 magcro bombers and half drop nova which the magcro synergise too. Whatever you claim is to kill ballgroups, eg. Borrowed time, bombers, shifting standard, negate etc. is not used ever by the average solo zergling or zerg surfer, but certainly by every ball group

Ballgroups are not unkillable. I've run in pugs that do it. Quit sooking and trying to get everything nerfed. No wonder the game is a morass of crap.

Should ZOS have stopped nerfs at the stamblade triple proc set meta or the necro bash build meta? Both had people calling for no more nerfs

Mr_Walker · January 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Negates + harmony kill the ball groups everyone qqs about. Nerf it and you'll soon be whining about unkillable ball groups.

Synergies + Harmony build takes out EVERYONE, whether youre in a group or by yourself. Its not a niche build, its an "I win" button.

No, it really isn't.

StrandedMonkey · January 2020

ZOS_dev_we've_never_heard_of wrote:

the point of this the greymore patch is to fix game performance and other current issues

but we're going to nerf the *** out of off balance and the wrong DK skills

Qbiken · January 2020

The trait is fine imo, the numbers on the trait itself can be adjusted, but the design of the trsit itself should stay.

essi2 · January 2020

How about we take all the gear traits out of PvP.. problem solved!

KillsAllElves · January 2020

essi2 wrote: »

How about we take all the gear traits out of PvP.. problem solved!

^^^Pvp would be better

Heresyall · January 2020

I think harmony is overtuned in PvP and deserves a nerf , synergies are way too strong right now,being able to one shot players by pressing X (even with bad coordination) is a bad game design.
Moreover the cross healing buff from scalebreaker is making ball groups unkillable even under negate (atleast healing springs could get negated).

jcm2606 · January 2020

Also, if you think I'm defending harmony because I use it, I don't. Never participated in large scale PvP, and I'm not even playing right now. But I still know how the current meta is, I still know how the current state of the game is, and, more importantly, I still know how selfish the community is.

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

jcm2606 · January 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

This. At this point, the forum staff need to be moderating all forms of game feedback, and keeping check on tantrum-throwing and misinformation, especially if Zenimax is supposedly using the forums as an active form of feedback.

Introduce a new category aimed specifically at feedback, and have rules specific to that category. Zenimax primarily pulls feedback from that category, rather than all over the forums.

ChunkyCat · January 2020

Bad players should not be able to beat the rest of us. Nerf bad players.

Anyone posted that argument yet? I skipped a few posts >,>

TheFM · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Seems we have another forum user who needs to learn the art of Learning to Play.

Yes ill find another way to kill a build that stands in the middle its circle of near insta death with my melee build, thank you for your constructive input

You seem to be in the minority who actually want this nerfed, so, L2P I guess?

Nah, I agree and hardlyever die from it, fact is it's hitting too hard, and something I've noticed about a lot of people here is that they are incapable of objectively looking at issues. Just an atmosphere of bullying if anyone comes in and challenges the groups of people patting each other on the back.

Because we're sick of seeing countless sets, skills and mechanics get gutted because of idiots who throw tantrums to get *** nerfed.

L2P isn't just some insult, it's an actual damn suggestion. Rather than getting the tears flowing, stomping your feet, and screaming at the top of your lungs for Zenimax to nerf something, actually bloody learn to play against it. Spend some serious time playing both with and against it, so that you know it intimately, rather than just going "IT KILLED ME QUICKLY, IT OP, IT NEED NERF!"

Actually use your noggin and think for a second. The game is currently in a stupid strong tank meta, where mitigation is easy as *** to come by, and a few DPS cross healing can replace a dedicated healer or two, and offer more to the group. You need strong tools in the game to even put a dent into these groups, and yet you guys are asking for one of these very few tools to be nerfed, when the next patch seems to be buffing the tank meta.

That is why I, at least, treat idiots like they're idiots. Because they're not thinking, they're throwing a tantrum. And the last thing the game needs right now is a forum full of toddlers giving Zenimax stupid suggestions, sending the game deeper and deeper into the abyss.

Says we throw a tantrum and you just spouted a tirade of insults and assumptions. Gg.objectively seeing something as unhealthy from the game is a good thing, living on an echo chamber isn't, and that's what this forum is filled with atm. 1337 players who use broken skills and setups clutching to them at all costs insulting anyone who questions them..

Go take a stroll through the forums, and look at the huge disproportion between nerf threads and buff threads. Hell, we have several forum members who just ask for buffs to their own class, and nerfs to literally everything else.

And that's not viewing things objectively, which is also a problem.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Also, if you think I'm defending harmony because I use it, I don't. Never participated in large scale PvP, and I'm not even playing right now. But I still know how the current meta is, I still know how the current state of the game is, and, more importantly, I still know how selfish the community is.

The meta issue comes from the absurd availability of major and minor protection. That's it. A well coordinated group can have those running at all times, coupled with resists can put it at a whopping 88 percent mitigation, that's the problem. And harmony doesn't even work for those players, what did hurt them was dots, and once again people didn't look at it objectively and this is what Ou have. You can be objective and criticize more than one thing. It's not hard.

TheFM · January 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

If you buff everything you are just nerfing in a round about way. Yes some nerds were not warranted, but I find it amusing that 19 k over 12 seconds was out of the question, but now the very same people are calling 20 k instant hits ok.

LadyNalcarya · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

If you buff everything you are just nerfing in a round about way. Yes some nerds were not warranted, but I find it amusing that 19 k over 12 seconds was out of the question, but now the very same people are calling 20 k instant hits ok.

Not quite. Nerfing something means taking stuff away from people, buffing gives more options.
Look at the state of pvp nb for example and compare it to what it used to be. ZOS cannot just slightly nerf anything without breaking it.

TheFM · January 2020

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

If you buff everything you are just nerfing in a round about way. Yes some nerds were not warranted, but I find it amusing that 19 k over 12 seconds was out of the question, but now the very same people are calling 20 k instant hits ok.

Not quite. Nerfing something means taking stuff away from people, buffing gives more options.
Look at the state of pvp nb for example and compare it to what it used to be. ZOS cannot just slightly nerf anything without breaking it.

NB is fine in pvp, it just cant kill people before they can respond anymore, which is healthy gameplay. If you buff everything to bring them up to par with an op skill, you are still nerfing that skill to be less overperforming. Nerfing however takes less work. I agree the knee jerk nerfs are too much, but something that can hit for 20 k instant is too much.

Edziu · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Nerf threads are the only thing that needs a hard nerf.
We lost so many fun things because of nerfs, and I cannot comprehend how people are still asking for it.
Nothing should be nerfed, they should just buff counter-play and underpowered things.

If you buff everything you are just nerfing in a round about way. Yes some nerds were not warranted, but I find it amusing that 19 k over 12 seconds was out of the question, but now the very same people are calling 20 k instant hits ok.

Not quite. Nerfing something means taking stuff away from people, buffing gives more options.
Look at the state of pvp nb for example and compare it to what it used to be. ZOS cannot just slightly nerf anything without breaking it.

NB is fine in pvp, it just cant kill people before they can respond anymore, which is healthy gameplay. If you buff everything to bring them up to par with an op skill, you are still nerfing that skill to be less overperforming. Nerfing however takes less work. I agree the knee jerk nerfs are too much, but something that can hit for 20 k instant is too much.

so why we have not nerfed yet this tank meta for years?
things like harmony have evolved to this to finally kill someone faster rather than wasting 10+ mins for single player if even killing him at all...

what the hell is wrong with people in this game? I can understand how nobody want to die in game when you also lose something with death (items, exp, currency) but here? you lose literally nothing for dying and yet everyone are scared to die so they build to tank, to tank, tank, tankly builds to be immortal....and this is sad how you build now for pure glass cannon and you still have problem to kill these tank thanks to many many nerfs to killing things like this thread....
but tnak ofc without any significant problem can kill glass cannon because even your basic damage is enough to kill someone without defence but if you go fully for offense without defense you are still unable to kill most tanks

WTB CAP FOR ATLEAST HEALTH like we had stat caps in beggining and maybe also softcap for crit resistance

SpacemanSpiff1 · January 2020

Was it supposed to? Were there patch notes?

Lemonsinspace · January 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

With 3 pieces of gold jewellery in the harmony trait you get a whopping 105% increase to and from synergies, this is just an insane number when compared to other jewellery traits including those that have been nerfed. The other major issue with the self procced graveyard synergy, it allows any magnecro to drop out a huge 10k AOE hit for the sacrifice of a mere ~2600 rough stats. It should be brought in to line with bloodthirsty and offer 10% on gold jewellery considering in group play (which nearly all PVP and PVE is) you will get more use and uptime from harmony than bloodthirsty.

They said this update wasn't about balancing, that comes later on, I can't remember when.

Shantu · January 2020

Geez, enjoy it and use it, or find ways to counter it. This "Something is killing me in PVP so it HAS to be nerfed!" is pure nonsense.

Anhedonie · January 2020

I mean harmony has pretty niche applications, that's why...

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

I’m more concerned with over tuned healing and out of control damage mitigation. Harmony is pretty far down my list of things that need changed.

ZOS_Volpe · January 2020

Greetings,

After removing a handful of posts around baiting, we must remind everyone that all should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

Here’s the thing. If I die to a harmony bomb then I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. That is a L2P issue. But some ding *** hits blade cloak and suddenly he’s taking 30% less damage from all sources is something else entirely. In a tank meta where burst heals from 1-100% is common place we need something to fight groups of meta humpers holding block healing each other.