Call to Test

DarkGottbeard · January 2020

Yesterday while testing several burst combos I came across a strange mechanic. It is unclear if this is a bug or if it is an intentional mechanic. If a combo would have damaged 100% of a players life in one GCD (1 second) the defending player was instead given massive artificial Damage Reduction until the new GCD. This Damage Reduction would sometimes even reduce attacks down to 0 dmg if the combo was violent enough.

I would like other testers to interact with this mechanic and see if we can collectively suss out what is happening and define the parameters of this Holtzman Shield. If other players can recreate the mechanic hopefully we can get this bug fixed before live or shine the light on a babysitter mechanic trying to sneak by the patch notes unnoticed.

Some details I tested

100% - 0% combos provided massive mitigation preventing the kill.

80%-0% combos provided no extra mitigation and skills did full damage. (lowering the targets health a little before bursting would prevent the mitigation.)

The mitigation was not stealth specific and would arrive on any burst regardless of class or combo style.

Unanswered questions

Can other players recreate the phenomenon?

Is the mitigation only against one player source or will you get momentary damage immunity when 2 or more people burst together?

Does the mitigation apply to 1 single attack source if it does enough damage?

If you take the time to test this please post your findings here, thank you.

Taleof2Cities · January 2020

A video of your findings would be immensely helpful, @DarkGottbeard.

Not only to try to reproduce the effect ... but also to confirm what you describe is actually happening.

DarkGottbeard · January 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

A video of your findings would be immensely helpful, @DarkGottbeard.

Not only to try to reproduce the effect ... but also to confirm what you describe is actually happening.

I am not set up to record so that will not be happening. The effect is definitely happening to me. Thank you for your interest.

kojou · January 2020

Please share your 100-0% burst combo so that I may... ahem test it.

Seriously though, I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand it is not fun to get bursted down in one cool-down and I can see the argument for and against it.

Putting something like that into the game without putting it in the patch notes is a bit underhanded though. Maybe they did that so the new block mechanic would work better? In other words, keeping players from getting obliterated before block takes affect.

Interested to see how the testing goes on this.

Olupajmibanan · January 2020

So you say that a full CP geared DK using Take Flight on a player that has no gear, CPs and attribute points will not kill him?

Or are 2+ instances of damage needed in order to happen?

Glory · January 2020

I'll look into this too, see if I can repro.

May be a day or two, but you can DM me here or in game live/PTS: @Glorious

DarkGottbeard · January 2020

kojou wrote: »

Please share your 100-0% burst combo so that I may... ahem test it.

Seriously though, I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand it is not fun to get bursted down in one cool-down and I can see the argument for and against it.

Putting something like that into the game without putting it in the patch notes is a bit underhanded though. Maybe they did that so the new block mechanic would work better? In other words, keeping players from getting obliterated before block takes affect.

Interested to see how the testing goes on this.

I did Snipe> timed light atk> timed (silver shards, poison inject, poison spray w/ perfect asylum), weapon Swap before ranged combo lands timed Greatsword light atk> executioner> bash. Roughly all hitting within 100ms to 400 ms.

I did Snipe> Snipe> Cloak after the first hit. The first snipe took them to 5% life the second snipe did almost no dmg.

I did a Beetle> Snipe> onslaught combo

And I did a Beetle> heavy atk> Dawnbreaker> light atk> powerbash > bash combo.

I was testing for a while so i forget the particulars of other comboes i might have used. Any full 1 shot combo will work to recreate as long as the damage is introduced all within 1000 ms.

I had my test subject bring vampires, non vampires. I had him gear tanky, and gear squishy. The results were the same, if the burst was 100% to 0% then some arbitrary mitigation would reduce the dmg immensely.

DarkGottbeard · January 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

So you say that a full CP geared DK using Take Flight on a player that has no gear, CPs and attribute points will not kill him?

Or are 2+ instances of damage needed in order to happen?

I did not test if 1 skill is required or 2 or more is needed.

And i did not test if it changes when two players burst is introduced.

But those are wonderful points to test.

Kronuxx · January 2020

Hey @Gottbeard , oddly enough El lobo had mentioned some odd mechanic occuring during his PTS testing video where he noticed that with very high weapon damage, his damage was being equivalent to a fellow dueler who had less weapon damage and also noted the mitigation seemed very high the higher your offensive states.

Madhatten512 · January 2020

I was the person testing with Lobo and though we didn't recreate this exact scenario we saw some very weird damage numbers when u started to push into very high weapon damage.. Like a build with 8300 plus WD doing the same damage as a build with 5500 to 6000 weapon damage. Also odd periods of extreme mitigation where something like d swing would register for like 600 damage.. There are very strange things going on the PTS with damage calculation.

MashmalloMan · January 2020

Maybe this was something stealth patched in.

Something I noticed that may be new, a little unrelated, was a buff given to you in a pug dungeon provided when entering, that increases drop chance, gold gain or exp, something like that. I've never seen that in the game.

All I did was enter a dungeon on a new template character alone. I noticed a new buff on me, went to character screen and there it was. Said something like "given to you for helping someone complete a dungeon for the first time". I guess it counted myself.

Is this new? I'll update my comment later with a screenshot, unless someone chimes in with its old or has the screenshot themself.

AMeanOne · January 2020

Lmao hopefully this is just a bug on the pts but you never know with zos

Eormenric · January 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Maybe this was something stealth patched in.

Something I noticed that may be new, a little unrelated, was a buff given to you in a pug dungeon provided when entering, that increases drop chance, gold gain or exp, something like that. I've never seen that in the game.

All I did was enter a dungeon on a new template character alone. I noticed a new buff on me, went to character screen and there it was. Said something like "given to you for helping someone complete a dungeon for the first time". I guess it counted myself.

Is this new? I'll update my comment later with a screenshot, unless someone chimes in with its old or has the screenshot themself.

Yes I had that same buff. If it's not strictly to the PTS whilst testing in dungeons, it must be a new feature that encourages teaching new players a dungeon.

An example scenario is that if a single tank runs a dungeon multiple times and each time has 1-2 newcomers, they [the tank] will be rewarded for their efforts instead of "Don't have time for this; peace!". I like the idea. Spread the knowledge and give people confidence to tackle more challenging content, thus spreading the opportunity of grouping--which seems to be an admirable and constant goal of ESO.

MincVinyl · January 2020

This is definately something that I will have to test once I get back onto the pts, If this would remain in the game it will really hurt solo gameplay.

MincVinyl · January 2020

Alright we did some testing, I have a clip of the bug happening with the combat metrics recap. Below that is another combat metrics recap of another combo being mitigated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NXOu6tYMdg

Possibilities:
-It may be happening at above ~19500 max health for the defender
-It may be a red cp
-it may be when a certain number of red cp is slotted
-it may be when any of the 75 red cp bonuses are active
-It may be when attacking from stealth (doubt this one, but worth testing)

@Glory
@Gottbeard

Nirnroot420 · January 2020

MincVinyl wrote: »

Alright we did some testing, I have a clip of the bug happening with the combat metrics recap. Below that is another combat metrics recap of another combo being mitigated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NXOu6tYMdg

Possibilities:
-It may be happening at above ~19500 max health for the defender
-It may be a red cp
-it may be when a certain number of red cp is slotted
-it may be when any of the 75 red cp bonuses are active
-It may be when attacking from stealth (doubt this one, but worth testing)

@Glory
@Gottbeard

Not only would it hurt solo gameplay, it'd be awful for the game as a whole. Protecting players from well-executed burst combos would just further solidify a tank meta where everyone builds to simply not die, as building high damage builds would be nigh on pointless if players are cuddled from high damage. I mean, what would be the point of a nightblade at all, for example?

This is a very good thread and highlights something that was certainly not outlined in he patch notes and that I, and I'm sure plenty of others, hope is an unfortunate bug, and not a feature designed to further simplify the game.

iCaliban · January 2020

Ive seen instances of ghost damage on live. Frequently when using force pulse. Might have something to do with ranged damage?

Glory · January 2020

I'll forward this along

MincVinyl · January 2020

Also @Glory there seems to be a ghost heal happening possibly unrelated, but we saw it multiple times during testing.

Essentially doing near 1 shot burst combos like in the video/ pic. When the defender is stunned and uses break free, they are healed for some absurd amount of health 30-40%. This heal was not showing up on the combat metrics also, so I will have to get another video for proof sometime tonight.

so not only can a player avoid being burst within a gcd, but they are able to almost go back to half hp for free.

Nirnroot420 · January 2020

MincVinyl wrote: »

Also @Glory there seems to be a ghost heal happening possibly unrelated, but we saw it multiple times during testing.

Essentially doing near 1 shot burst combos like in the video/ pic. When the defender is stunned and uses break free, they are healed for some absurd amount of health 30-40%. This heal was not showing up on the combat metrics also, so I will have to get another video for proof sometime tonight.

so not only can a player avoid being burst within a gcd, but they are able to almost go back to half hp for free.

Yes, this is game-breaking and and runs counter to every combat system in the game. Can you replicate this bug same in cp and non-cp environments? And is it burst damage in general, or certain skills in combination?

This is probably the most important thread on this feedback board regarding the future of combat in this game, that has avtual testing-based evidence, and it's being drained by nonsense threads like buffing Combat Physician. We need some feedback from ZoS soon to confirm or deny this is a bug or a feature, because if it's the latter it's essentially the end of what remains of engaging PvP combat in this game.

AMeanOne · January 2020

Would be nice to get a zos response

iCaliban · January 2020

AMeanOne wrote: »

Would be nice to get a zos response

I believe glory is able to pass it along to them

satanio · January 2020

Maybe they tried to fix the "duel" deaths.

Glory · January 2020

iCaliban wrote: »

AMeanOne wrote: »

Would be nice to get a zos response

I believe glory is able to pass it along to them

Doing my best

DarkGottbeard · January 2020

Nirnroot420 wrote: »

Can you replicate this bug same in cp and non-cp environments? And is it burst damage in general, or certain skills in combination?

It only happened with CP, specifically red CP active. But raising and lowering stars to try and find which red star or passive was causing it did not definitively show what was causing it. The 1 shot started working when I was at 148 red CP. But I individually ruled out each red CP passive one at a time.

Specifically, I had 27 points in ironclad, 47 in resistant, 56 in hardy, 18 in elemental defender when the burst started to kill me.

Rahar · February 2020

Please don't forget this exists. If the bug is actually a bug or an intended feature and not some kind of misunderstanding of dueling mechanics or otherwise, we need to be extremely vocal about this. Hand-holding is NOT okay.

MincVinyl · February 2020

We were actually joking that we were seeing the new vamp passives zos is working on that someone forgot to disable during testing.

100% damage mitigation to keep you from death and a strange heal when you get stunned in a burst

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/511127/free-heal-after-stun-animation-bug#latest

Nirnroot420 · February 2020

Rahar wrote: »

Please don't forget this exists. If the bug is actually a bug or an intended feature and not some kind of misunderstanding of dueling mechanics or otherwise, we need to be extremely vocal about this. Hand-holding is NOT okay.

But nah let's have thirty threads relating to Iceheart which is a niche set for frostdens *at best*.

There's been no response made to this actual testing being done by Minc and Gott here, and no mention of these potential destructive mechanics in any of the patch notes, either as a bug or as a feature. So what exactly is going on here?

@MincVinyl @DarkGottbeard it might be a good idea to remake this thread with the new info and a more appealing name. Maybe make it about the clown store or how hard you find animation cancelling so the devs might actually give it a look?

MincVinyl · February 2020

Ive passed this thread on to class reps, and people on the stream team. There are quite alot of bugs present that might be passed through to live.

this mit bug
random heal after stun animation
stuck with 0 stam recov
my overload bugs

Of course iceheart is the most important thing, the pts forums are not made for actual testing and progress. Only things that get passed through the right people will be acted upon. Even gina told me that it is our job as random people on the forums with no credentials to report these spam opinion threads.... which lead my forum account to be temp banned for 2 minutes each time i tried to report a thread for the mods to take action. Banned for "spam" which is if you make 2 reports within 2 minutes, kinda Ironic if you think about it. Eventually I did get a thread moved.

Rahar · February 2020

No one I know or ever knew used Iceheart, lmao.

Anyway, this is a far bigger issue. I wish we could get an official response on this. The amount of handholdy "bugs" that might actually be features is completely unsettling.

AMeanOne · February 2020

As of this post, one of the iceheart threads has over 450 posts and this one has 30. That's pathetic