The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
New Curse Eater function should be extended to Combat Physician as well
Olupajmibanan
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Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 22, 2020 1:56PM 15
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Sordidfairytale✭✭✭✭✭This seems like a good idea at first, but think about it if they change this where will we get our decon fodder from then?
The Vegemite Knight
"if the skeleton kills you, your dps is too low." ~STEVIL
The Elder World of WarScrollCraft Online ~joaaocaampos0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just gonna give this a bump in hopes that it gets a look. Such a simple way to take another set off the scrap heap and make it useful0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Let's discuss the proposal. What would the change to have Combat Physician cooldown per target bring? What possible negative causes it could have?
1) The shield value is lower than Iceheart which is being used often and nobody complains about its shield size (actualy, I've seen some complaints about Iceheart shield being too small). Therefore, there is no problem in the shield value and no need to adjust it.
2) Proc conditions are fine IMO. You are required two conditions to be met: to actualy heal (not overheal) and the heal must be a critical hit. Since Combat Physician does not proc from overheals, you can't pre-apply the shield to your party before combat starts. Ebon on weapons bug has been resolved therefore it can't be used to lower your partys health anymore (it was being done as a synergy with sets that only proc from actual heals like Gossamer or Symfony of Blades).
3) 6 seconds cooldown is justified with the shield size. In most harder end-game content like vet DLC dungeons and vet DLC trials, an 8k or let's say a 10k shield (when the healer specs for it with CPs) will be taken down by a single AoE. Talking from experience now, a 6 seconds duration 10k shield from Iceheart was an additional layer of defense but definitely wasn't something I could rely on in vSS Nahviintas HM within portals. That's what Combat Physician would be, an additional layer of defense, but not something people should rely on. Not even saying that experienced groups don't even think about defensive support sets on their healers or tanks, they go full group dmg buffs with stuff like Zen or Martial Knowledge, so change to Combat Physician would not hurt leaderboards in any way.
4) Shield size of Combat Physician is affected by Battle Spirit. A 4k shield really isn't going to make a difference even if used by organized ball groups.
5) Change should not be technicaly difficult because Curse Eater was changed during this PTS the exact same way we want to change Combat Physician.Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 24, 2020 11:04AM1 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Great suggestion. How dare you present such a cogent argument on these forums?
I see nothing but positives from the suggested change.Fear is the Mindkiller0 -
Somnilux✭✭✭This used to be the functionality of the set and it got changed about 2 years ago to what it currently is. Before the change, it was actually a useful set in pvp groups if you ran a decent crit%.Luxe Khanna - AD, Rank 49 Argonian Magblade Healer
Crystala Khanna - AD, Rank 40 Khajiit Stamplar
Guilds: Fantasia, Dominant Dominion.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This used to be the functionality of the set and it got changed about 2 years ago to what it currently is. Before the change, it was actually a useful set in pvp groups if you ran a decent crit%.
Hmm don't remember ever having Combat Physician cooldown per target. It's a shame that eso wiki pages do not include changelogs.Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 24, 2020 9:16PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This would be an awesome change. It would become a really sweet magblade healer set!
Crit only synwrgizes with damage procs (mostly right now). This would be a good way to allow crit healer builds.Edited by Iskiab on January 24, 2020 9:34PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭Buff combat physician to have individual player cooldowns or buff prayer shawl to proc more easily?
I think both are similar results, both need something...
Personally I'd like to see flavour to these shields, example being, heal the receiver for up to X health when shield BREAKS or times out (reverse healing ward).1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Buff combat physician to have individual player cooldowns or buff prayer shawl to proc more easily?
I think both are similar results, both need something...
Personally I'd like to see flavour to these shields, example being, heal the receiver for up to X health when shield BREAKS or times out (reverse healing ward).
Prayer Shawl needs a lot more game desing thoughts. What would you do? Up the proc chance? Up the shield size? Add some more proc conditions to not be OP? This would be much more of a bother to ZoS than just making Combat Physician cd per target. If we start discussing Prayer Shawl here, they will overlook this thread and none of the sets will get a deserved adjustment. We should stand to the saying "when you chase two rabbits you will not catch either one".
While I know that Prayer Shawl needs adjustments too, I came fighting for Combat Physician only because of the recent change to Curse Eater. It would be of no bother to ZoS to do the same to Combat Physician. Both Curse Eater and Combat Physician have similar proc conditions, both need actual heal and not overheal, one needs it to be a direct heal, the second a critical heal. I don't know much about programming, but it shouldn't take long to change Combat Physician to have cd per target when they are on Curse Eater right now.0 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
Agree, they also previously did very good change to Gossamer and now it's one of my go-to set, very strong.
We need more viable support set, not just some déclinaison of "boost group dmg by X when you do Y" ...[ PC EU ]
[ Khuram-dar ]
[ Khajiit ]
[ Templar - Healer ]
[Crazy Gatherer & Compulsive Thief]2 -
Konstant_Tel_Necris✭✭✭✭✭If so, perhaps developers take a look on ugly and forgotten step-brother of Combat Physician?
I ask about Prayer Shawl
(5 items) When you heal a friendly target, you have a 6% chance to grant them a damage shield that absorbs 2813 damage for 6 seconds.
https://eso-sets.com/set/prayer-shawl1 -
SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Buff combat physician to have individual player cooldowns or buff prayer shawl to proc more easily?
I think both are similar results, both need something...
Personally I'd like to see flavour to these shields, example being, heal the receiver for up to X health when shield BREAKS or times out (reverse healing ward).
Prayer Shawl needs a lot more game desing thoughts. What would you do? Up the proc chance? Up the shield size? Add some more proc conditions to not be OP? This would be much more of a bother to ZoS than just making Combat Physician cd per target. If we start discussing Prayer Shawl here, they will overlook this thread and none of the sets will get a deserved adjustment. We should stand to the saying "when you chase two rabbits you will not catch either one".
While I know that Prayer Shawl needs adjustments too, I came fighting for Combat Physician only because of the recent change to Curse Eater. It would be of no bother to ZoS to do the same to Combat Physician. Both Curse Eater and Combat Physician have similar proc conditions, both need actual heal and not overheal, one needs it to be a direct heal, the second a critical heal. I don't know much about programming, but it shouldn't take long to change Combat Physician to have cd per target when they are on Curse Eater right now.
So you think assimilating the proc condition of Combat Physician into being homogenized with Prayer Shawl to be the solution then?
Why do you think that a holistic view would compromise facilitating a constructive discussion from ZoS's perspective?
"when you chase two rabbits you will not catch either one" but you can't catch one only to throw it into a pot of water, to then call it potato soup. We already have a potato soup... And guess what? With potatoes!
In other words; Prayer Shawl is exactly what you want Combat Physician to be.
I'm so sorry you don't like that.
Edited by SirMewser on January 26, 2020 5:08AM1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lol so a free shield for all players on a breach?
As for it not being significant, I don't know my mag templar and mag dk using that set would disagree. It's literally a free sheild on CD as long as you have enough crit.
Also curse eater only activates after you cast a skill or take an action that does direct healing, where combat physician activates on any crit healing (no action needed besides stacking HoTs). The potential vs cost is much higher than curse eater, but I guess that is convenient to ignore...1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭lol so a free shield for all players on a breach?
As for it not being significant, I don't know my mag templar and mag dk using that set would disagree. It's literally a free sheild on CD as long as you have enough crit.
Also curse eater only activates after you cast a skill or take an action that does direct healing, where combat physician activates on any crit healing (no action needed besides stacking HoTs). The potential vs cost is much higher than curse eater, but I guess that is convenient to ignore...
To correct you, Curse Eater procs on cooldown passively if you use Blood Altar or any other source of Minor Lifesteal which is direct healing. So there is no difference in proc rate between new Curse Eater and Combat Physician having cd per target.
Combat Physician needs you to actively keep multiple HoTs to reach solid uptime. Curse Eater needs you to cast Sanguine Altar once per 40 seconds. So which one here has higher potential vs cost?
Not even talking about Gossamer. You just keep healing like always and your whole party has Major Evasion. And that is waaaaay stronger than some 8k shield or 3 negative effects cleanse. Sorry for bringing this, I don't mean to question strength of either Curse Eater or Gossamer, I think these sets are great and more are needed like these. Just wanted to show that there are sets that are stronger than Combat Physician with cd per target would ever be, but nobody is complaining about these being too strong.Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 26, 2020 2:08PM0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »lol so a free shield for all players on a breach?
As for it not being significant, I don't know my mag templar and mag dk using that set would disagree. It's literally a free sheild on CD as long as you have enough crit.
Also curse eater only activates after you cast a skill or take an action that does direct healing, where combat physician activates on any crit healing (no action needed besides stacking HoTs). The potential vs cost is much higher than curse eater, but I guess that is convenient to ignore...
To correct you, Curse Eater procs on cooldown passively if you use Blood Altar or any other source of Minor Lifesteal which is direct healing. So there is no difference in proc rate between new Curse Eater and Combat Physician having cd per target.
Combat Physician needs you to actively keep multiple HoTs to reach solid uptime. Curse Eater needs you to cast Sanguine Altar once per 40 seconds. So which one here has higher potential vs cost?
Not even talking about Gossamer. You just keep healing like always and your whole party has Major Evasion. And that is waaaaay stronger than some 8k shield or 3 negative effects cleanse. Sorry for bringing this, I don't mean to question strength of either Curse Eater or Gossamer, I think these sets are great and more are needed like these. Just wanted to show that there are sets that are stronger than Combat Physician with cd per target would ever be, but nobody is complaining about these being too strong.
And that requires you to do damage, where combat physician does not, meaning the opportunity to take another action must be used at some point and/or a cost of magicka, stamina, or health.
It's true you can use a DoT to proc lifesteal, but a DoT itself can be cleansed, where not every class can negate HoTs on a target.
Also, never said I thought curse eater changes were entirely balanced. SPOILER: I don't.
I know exactly how I would use such a set, and from that I can clearly understand it would not be healthy to the game. Though the same can be said of Gossamer and Curse-Eater, if changed similar to the PTS Curse-Eater, then the set would be far too OP in group play and I imagine no one in BGs or Cyro will smile about it.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »lol so a free shield for all players on a breach?
As for it not being significant, I don't know my mag templar and mag dk using that set would disagree. It's literally a free sheild on CD as long as you have enough crit.
Also curse eater only activates after you cast a skill or take an action that does direct healing, where combat physician activates on any crit healing (no action needed besides stacking HoTs). The potential vs cost is much higher than curse eater, but I guess that is convenient to ignore...
To correct you, Curse Eater procs on cooldown passively if you use Blood Altar or any other source of Minor Lifesteal which is direct healing. So there is no difference in proc rate between new Curse Eater and Combat Physician having cd per target.
Combat Physician needs you to actively keep multiple HoTs to reach solid uptime. Curse Eater needs you to cast Sanguine Altar once per 40 seconds. So which one here has higher potential vs cost?
Not even talking about Gossamer. You just keep healing like always and your whole party has Major Evasion. And that is waaaaay stronger than some 8k shield or 3 negative effects cleanse. Sorry for bringing this, I don't mean to question strength of either Curse Eater or Gossamer, I think these sets are great and more are needed like these. Just wanted to show that there are sets that are stronger than Combat Physician with cd per target would ever be, but nobody is complaining about these being too strong.
And that requires you to do damage, where combat physician does not, meaning the opportunity to take another action must be used at some point and/or a cost of magicka, stamina, or health.
It's true you can use a DoT to proc lifesteal, but a DoT itself can be cleansed, where not every class can negate HoTs on a target.
Also, never said I thought curse eater changes were entirely balanced. SPOILER: I don't.
I know exactly how I would use such a set, and from that I can clearly understand it would not be healthy to the game. Though the same can be said of Gossamer and Curse-Eater, if changed similar to the PTS Curse-Eater, then the set would be far too OP in group play and I imagine no one in BGs or Cyro will smile about it.
Minor lifesteal heal procs of every simgle instance of damage. Therefore, dots, ground aoes, direct damage attacks, light attacks, literally every source of damage procs it. And I don't remember a boss cleansing a dot from himself (except for vDSA last boss). This request is made from progression groups viewpoint. Leaderboard groups have their Z'ens, Martial Knowledges and other dps boosting stuff. However, these things have limited to no use in progression groups. Gossamer is a very nice progression set, new Curse Eater will be the same and Combat Physician with cd per target would be the same.
Shield size of Combat Physician is halved in PvP via Battle Spirit. And stacking crit is also uncommon in PvP outside of ganking. Therefore, the change has no means in PvP. Why people don't use Icehearts often in PvP? You need a lot of crit to make it work and its shield size is even bigger than that of a Combat Physician. Reasons above.
Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 26, 2020 3:41PM1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »lol so a free shield for all players on a breach?
As for it not being significant, I don't know my mag templar and mag dk using that set would disagree. It's literally a free sheild on CD as long as you have enough crit.
Also curse eater only activates after you cast a skill or take an action that does direct healing, where combat physician activates on any crit healing (no action needed besides stacking HoTs). The potential vs cost is much higher than curse eater, but I guess that is convenient to ignore...
To correct you, Curse Eater procs on cooldown passively if you use Blood Altar or any other source of Minor Lifesteal which is direct healing. So there is no difference in proc rate between new Curse Eater and Combat Physician having cd per target.
Combat Physician needs you to actively keep multiple HoTs to reach solid uptime. Curse Eater needs you to cast Sanguine Altar once per 40 seconds. So which one here has higher potential vs cost?
Not even talking about Gossamer. You just keep healing like always and your whole party has Major Evasion. And that is waaaaay stronger than some 8k shield or 3 negative effects cleanse. Sorry for bringing this, I don't mean to question strength of either Curse Eater or Gossamer, I think these sets are great and more are needed like these. Just wanted to show that there are sets that are stronger than Combat Physician with cd per target would ever be, but nobody is complaining about these being too strong.
And that requires you to do damage, where combat physician does not, meaning the opportunity to take another action must be used at some point and/or a cost of magicka, stamina, or health.
It's true you can use a DoT to proc lifesteal, but a DoT itself can be cleansed, where not every class can negate HoTs on a target.
Also, never said I thought curse eater changes were entirely balanced. SPOILER: I don't.
I know exactly how I would use such a set, and from that I can clearly understand it would not be healthy to the game. Though the same can be said of Gossamer and Curse-Eater, if changed similar to the PTS Curse-Eater, then the set would be far too OP in group play and I imagine no one in BGs or Cyro will smile about it.
Minor lifesteal heal procs of every simgle instance of damage. Therefore, dots, ground aoes, direct damage attacks, light attacks, literally every source of damage procs it. And I don't remember a boss cleansing a dot from himself (except for vDSA last boss). This request is made from progression groups viewpoint. Leaderboard groups have their Z'ens, Martial Knowledges and other dps boosting stuff. However, these things have limited to no use in progression groups. Gossamer is a very nice progression set, new Curse Eater will be the same and Combat Physician with cd per target would be the same.
Shield size of Combat Physician is halved in PvP via Battle Spirit. And stacking crit is also uncommon in PvP outside of ganking. Therefore, the change has no means in PvP. Why people don't use Icehearts often in PvP? You need a lot of crit to make it work and its shield size is even bigger than that of a Combat Physician. Reasons above.
Because they have not come across my NB using iceheart and combat physician, stacking damage reduction and damage in open world or BGs yet to know any better, but okay. I just want my opposition there to link to when people are complaining on live...
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Vildebill✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why would anyone ever use combat physician or prayer shawl? Tiny shields with low proc conditions, and removes another five piece set that can give so much more. Those sets are worthless except for deconstructing.
You'll need far more that 8 second cooldown per target to make it relevant, quadruple the shield size or/and change the proc condition too.EU PC0 -
mdb800✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
I have no clue what game people are playing but curse eater has not worked since at least 3 months ago. At least this is the case on ps4. They need the set to actually proc. It does not always proc. You have to load in somewhere to reset the cool down timer from time to time.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
I have no clue what game people are playing but curse eater has not worked since at least 3 months ago. At least this is the case on ps4. They need the set to actually proc. It does not always proc. You have to load in somewhere to reset the cool down timer from time to time.
Sorry don't know about current Curse Eater on live. I didn't even think about using Curse Eater until they made its cd per target. Tested it on PTS, works flawlessly so far.
And the same is true about Combat Physician, it's worth only Elegant Linings until they make its cd per target.0 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
I have no clue what game people are playing but curse eater has not worked since at least 3 months ago. At least this is the case on ps4. They need the set to actually proc. It does not always proc. You have to load in somewhere to reset the cool down timer from time to time.
I was just looking at the set again on live and it seems like many of the heals that would make the set a good support set don't proc the purge. The direct heal condition is another obstacle to making the set useful in a game where HoTs are more important than burst heals.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
I have no clue what game people are playing but curse eater has not worked since at least 3 months ago. At least this is the case on ps4. They need the set to actually proc. It does not always proc. You have to load in somewhere to reset the cool down timer from time to time.
I was just looking at the set again on live and it seems like many of the heals that would make the set a good support set don't proc the purge. The direct heal condition is another obstacle to making the set useful in a game where HoTs are more important than burst heals.
Minor Lifesteal is the absolute easiest way to proc it: cast Altar -> forget -> Curse Eater will get the job done. If you don't really have means of applying Minor Lifesteal, there are stills AoE direct heals such as Budding Seed (the 2nd cast), Healing Ritual or Life Amid Death. I am glad that Curse Eater joined the group of "Useful support defensive non-dpsboosting sets". Extensive list of the group is now:
1) Gossamer
2) Mending
3) Curse Eater
Combat Physician is the number one adept to join this group. The cooldown being fixed 6 seconds rather than 6 seconds per target is the only obstacle.Edited by Olupajmibanan on January 27, 2020 3:28PM0 -
Miloscpolski✭✭✭Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
what does it have to do with curse-eating??? where is logic.1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Miloscpolski wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
what does it have to do with curse-eating??? where is logic.
Actualy, tight similarities link them. The logic you are looking for is there, called analogy.
Both are sets with defensive effect:
Occasional 3 negative effects cleanse (CE) VS Occasional 8k shield (CP)
Similar proc conditions:
1) Actual heal is needed, not overheal (this is true for both)
2) 100% proc chance when condition is met (this is true for both)
3) Direct heal condition (CE) VS Critical Heal condition (CP)
Similar cooldown:
8 seconds (CE) VS 6 seconds (CP)
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SirMewser✭✭✭✭✭
They are more dissimilar than you've claimed.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Miloscpolski wrote: »Olupajmibanan wrote: »Hello and firstly, let me appreciate the change to Curse Eater to have an 8 sec cooldown per target. I can definitely find use to it. As we are into this, I would like to see exact same treatment to Combat Physician set. The direction of support sets is going downhill to group buff sets only and it would be nice to have some support defensive sets as well. Combat Physician in its current state isn't usable for that, but making its cooldown per target would make it a nice set that is not overly oppressive.
what does it have to do with curse-eating??? where is logic.
Actualy, tight similarities link them. The logic you are looking for is there, called analogy.
Both are sets with defensive effect:
Occasional 3 negative effects cleanse (CE) VS Occasional 8k shield (CP)
Similar proc conditions:
1) Actual heal is needed, not overheal (this is true for both)
2) 100% proc chance when condition is met (this is true for both)
3) Direct heal condition (CE) VS Critical Heal condition (CP)
Similar cooldown:
8 seconds (CE) VS 6 seconds (CP)
1) "Actual heal is needed" for most proc condition (but not limited to) sets.- Prayer Shawl, procs on restoring health, rather than applying a heal.
- Gossamer, procs on restoring health, rather than applying a heal.
- Troll King, procs on restoring health, rather than applying a heal.
- Transmutation, procs on restoring health, rather than applying a heal.
- Symbiosis, procs on restoring health, rather than applying a heal.
And so on...
2)"100% proc chance" isn't realistic in neither PVE nor PVP.
100% uptime/proc-on-CD is possible, but in PVP, not probable for CP.
CE is building for sustain where third and fourth bonuses provide magicka recovery, whereas...
CP is building for spell critical on third and fourth bonuses.
CE proc is focused on sustaining magicka in regards to; third, fourth, and even fifth bonuses.
CP proc is focused on critical chance in regards to increasing the oddities of the fifth bonus proc condition.
CE provides a purge.
CP provides a shield.
CE has individual cooldowns.
CP has a GCD.
CE can chain proc other sets (example: Steadfast Hero & Standaar's Embrace).
CP can't chain proc other sets (example: Trinimac's Valor).
CE has a static cleanse value. Magicka gains are reduced by Siphoner.
CP has a dynamic value. (Bastion, spell symmetry and battle spirit.)
CE has no antithesis/hard-counter.
CP has many antithesis; Sload's Semblance, Shield Breaker, Shattering Blows, Glyph of Decrease Health, Knight Slayer, Torug's Pact, and Infused Trait.
CE proc is never suppressed.
CP proc is hindered/suppressed by heal absorptions (Borrowed Time, Traumatic Poisons, Soldier of Anguish, and Assassin's Guile).
CE has no penalizing bonuses in PVP.
CP has harsh penalizing bonuses (spell critical doesn't translate into critical damage well due to critical resistance) and (shields are reduced and less guaranteed by previously stated points).
3) "Direct heal condition (CE) VS Critical Heal condition (CP)" are 'Similar proc conditions:' because they include the word heal? Would that have anything to do with the sets being geared towards healers?- Curse Eater: When you heal yourself or an ally with a direct heal ability.
- Transmutation: When you heal a target with a healing over time ability.
- Combat Physician: When you critically heal a friendly target.
- Spell Power Cure: When you heal a friendly target that is at 100% Health.
- Earthgore: When you heal a friendly target that is under 50% Health.
- Troll King: When you heal a friendly target, if they are still below 50% Health.
- Symphony of Blades: When you heal an ally whose primary resource is under 50%
- Chokethorn: When you use a heal ability.
"The logic you are looking for is there, called analogy."
I know it's not in response to me, but I'm evocating for @Miloscpolski epathetically. Not sure if that is intended to be read with a negative connotation, but it's easy to interpret it as such. I assure you, should it be, it's only a projection of yourself and that if so, I wish you good mental health and self discovery.
Edited by SirMewser on January 28, 2020 4:47AM1 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Back to the topic, please. Thread started going other way than intended, partialy my fault, my appologizies for that.
This is the thing we discuss here:CE has individual cooldowns.
CP has a GCD.
Should Combat Physician have individual cooldowns, what possible negatives or positives it'd bring? Do you think CP should even have individual cooldowns? If so, why?
My opinion is here.Olupajmibanan wrote: »Let's discuss the proposal. What would the change to have Combat Physician cooldown per target bring? What possible negative causes it could have?
1) The shield value is lower than Iceheart which is being used often and nobody complains about its shield size (actualy, I've seen some complaints about Iceheart shield being too small). Therefore, there is no problem in the shield value and no need to adjust it.
2) Proc conditions are fine IMO. You are required two conditions to be met: to actualy heal (not overheal) and the heal must be a critical hit. Since Combat Physician does not proc from overheals, you can't pre-apply the shield to your party before combat starts. Ebon on weapons bug has been resolved therefore it can't be used to lower your partys health anymore (it was being done as a synergy with sets that only proc from actual heals like Gossamer or Symfony of Blades).
3) 6 seconds cooldown is justified with the shield size. In most harder end-game content like vet DLC dungeons and vet DLC trials, an 8k or let's say a 10k shield (when the healer specs for it with CPs) will be taken down by a single AoE. Talking from experience now, a 6 seconds duration 10k shield from Iceheart was an additional layer of defense but definitely wasn't something I could rely on in vSS Nahviintas HM within portals. That's what Combat Physician would be, an additional layer of defense, but not something people should rely on. Not even saying that experienced groups don't even think about defensive support sets on their healers or tanks, they go full group dmg buffs with stuff like Zen or Martial Knowledge, so change to Combat Physician would not hurt leaderboards in any way.
4) Shield size of Combat Physician is affected by Battle Spirit. A 4k shield really isn't going to make a difference even if used by organized ball groups.
5) Change should not be technicaly difficult because Curse Eater was changed during this PTS the exact same way we want to change Combat Physician.
Possible negatives I could see is that CP with individual cooldowns could possibly make some encounters easier than intended. However, Gossamer already does that and much more significantly than CP with individual cooldowns ever would. New Curse Eater is on that way too, no more Purge-like-madman Positrox+Negatrix encounter. That being said, Gossamer would still be prefered over Combat Physician but at least we would have a new option to consider. Too few defensive support sets are available. New support sets are being more and more narrowed to dpsboost/resourcebattery.Olupajmibanan wrote: »I am glad that Curse Eater joined the group of "Useful support defensive non-dpsboosting sets". Extensive list of the group is now:
1) Gossamer
2) Mending
3) Curse Eater
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