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Give class-based skills with Stamina morphs the “Soul Trap treatment”?
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phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭OtherI've long been of the opinion that they should keep each of the separate morphs, but allow a player to assign each skill to whatever attribute they want it to scale from. The use of magicka vs stamina is mostly cosmetic anyway. I can dodge using up stamina, or I can blink from one space to another avoiding an attack using magicka. Or I can fuel a magical spell using my personal vitality, which might drain my health, or perhaps just exhaust me, IE draining my stamina.
Admittedly, when it comes to the martial weapon skills, using magicka to power two handed strikes or dual weapon bleeds is a little harder to figure out...unless we allow magicka-powered weapons (you know - like conjuration used to do)
really, all you'd have to do is allow players to, as part of the skill design, select whether it fuels off of stamina or magicka (including all the basic skills like dodge, break free, block, and interrupt) - now, it WOULD require a huge range of new animations to provide visual feedback for your personal stamina/magicka choices...but I'm okay with that
I also wouldn't mind not tying damage values to magicka-stamina at all - instead, just using them as a resource to power skill usage, and find some other metric for setting damage values"There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - Change some affected class skills to scale this way.
Hi @D0PAMINE !! Yeah I felt like this thread needed to be made. I have another thread in mind to post maybe within a few months but besides that I wont be around. The forums can be interesting to read though sometimes lolYes please. Also Hi @Vaoh good to see you around the forums.1 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherI love your morph ideas mainly because it gives Ice Mages more options, and my Ice Mage is desperate for viability.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭For some skills, I hate that we have to choose between magicka and stamina because the magicka version is the healing morph while the stamina is the damage morph. So basically the magicka toon is less geared for damage dealing than the stam toon is. It's play as you want but roll stam if you want to do damage.0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - Change all affected class skills to scale this way.Sylvermynx wrote: »I never got this whole system.... over 1.5 years later I still don't.
It's a slapdash mishmash of some of Skyrim's more popular mods.
There's a popular mod which add morphs to spells. ESO copies that.
There's a popular mod which scales spell damage to maximum magicka. ESO copies that.
Though that mod only exists as a cheap and nasty fix to Skyrim's notoriously lopsided scaling where weapon damage drastically outscales magical.
There's no popular mod which adds classes. Especially ones which force every class to use magic. That's just whacky old ZO.
Here's where it gets curly with Zenimax's typical trying to have it both ways.
Player freedom blah blah blah pick your stats blah blah blah but soft caps. At launch they very effectively punished players pouring all their points into a single stat. They also very effectively nerfed racials which boosted max resources.
"Race really matters," ZO whispers conspiratorially to players who want that.
"Soft caps make racial passives meaningless," ZO whispers conspiratorially to the other flavour of player.
Much like ZO simultaneously decrying that class does / doesn't matter, while delivering 4 classes with very specialised abilities.
Many players saw through the lies. They also didn't love being forced to use magic and ZO's solution was the "stamina morph", i.e. magic-which-consumes stamina. And went nuts converting lots of abilities. Also removed soft caps.
On top of that there's the insanity of animation cancelling and "weaving" nonsense. The former is a staple in some MMOs. Weaving might an ESO original. I've not seen anything like it before.
All of which creates a sharp divide.
Many players just play using abilities. Solo and even a lot of group content is easy enough that that's effective. DLC vet content and pvp however, really require buying into the animation cancelling, weaving, rotations nonsense. Which means the players who don't and will never enjoy that style of play, simply ignore that content. No matter how many midyear mayhems ZO try to cram into a year.2 -
MaleAmazon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes - Change some affected class skills to scale this way.Then you might as well remove "magicka" and "stamina" from the game and just one resource called "resource"
Yeah - like they do with ultis.
Thing is morphs should be a *choice* imo. And if you have "magicka morph" and "stamina morph" - that isn´t a choice. So I am all for the 'soul trap treatment' (though IIRC there have been resource scaling non-ultis in the past, the DK inferno skill comes to mind but I digress).
Though they can´t just jam it in there - for example the drawback to medium armor DD builds has been that you don´t have a super great instaheal. I shudder at the thought of medium armor templars with stamina-scaling rushed ceremony...1 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
This thread is about giving skills that currently have Stamina-based morphs the Soul Trap treatment. Furthermore, it will open up options through scaling but also gets rid of “wasted” morphs.
If there still remain two resources, then no, it won't.
Soul Trap only works in a stamina DPS rotation because stamina DPS do not cast many magicka skills. By the time the DOT has run its course, my magicka pool is high enough to cast the skill again.
If my stamina warden DPS is now casting Soul Trap, a magicka morph of Pigeon, Shalks, etc ..., I will not have enough of that resource.
Its a neat idea, sure. But I think it is undone by the need to then invest into both magicka and stamina regen.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - Change some affected class skills to scale this way.MaleAmazon wrote: »Then you might as well remove "magicka" and "stamina" from the game and just one resource called "resource"
Yeah - like they do with ultis.
Thing is morphs should be a *choice* imo. And if you have "magicka morph" and "stamina morph" - that isn´t a choice. So I am all for the 'soul trap treatment' (though IIRC there have been resource scaling non-ultis in the past, the DK inferno skill comes to mind but I digress).
Though they can´t just jam it in there - for example the drawback to medium armor DD builds has been that you don´t have a super great instaheal. I shudder at the thought of medium armor templars with stamina-scaling rushed ceremony...
@MaleAmazon Oh I didn’t think of that, I’ve only played since PS4 launch.
Remember that the scaling would only apply to *skills currently with Stam morphs*. So Rushing Ceremony won’t change.
The purpose is to give more variety to the skills where there is essentially no morph choice but rather one correct way to go (with the other option being horrible bc of scaling).0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - Change some affected class skills to scale this way.
@witchdoctor Hello, in the main post I put a note that may have been missed. It can reasonably be assumed that (unlike Soul Trap) the cost can be changed into Stamina or Magicka via your highest offensive stats.witchdoctor wrote: »
This thread is about giving skills that currently have Stamina-based morphs the Soul Trap treatment. Furthermore, it will open up options through scaling but also gets rid of “wasted” morphs.
If there still remain two resources, then no, it won't.
Soul Trap only works in a stamina DPS rotation because stamina DPS do not cast many magicka skills. By the time the DOT has run its course, my magicka pool is high enough to cast the skill again.
If my stamina warden DPS is now casting Soul Trap, a magicka morph of Pigeon, Shalks, etc ..., I will not have enough of that resource.
Its a neat idea, sure. But I think it is undone by the need to then invest into both magicka and stamina regen.
Again this is only for skills currently with Stam morphs. Essentially gives these skills what could be interpreted as 3-4 morphs through morph effect changes based on your stats.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭OtherInstead i would love to see, either a second teir of morphs, or a fourth class skill line that specifically targets stamina while also having utility for magicka specs.
Ill use nightblade for example since thats my area of expertise.
So nightblade would recieve maybe an 'Acrobat' skill line (we are escape artists so ithought it would be good example) in it we might recieve a skill that buffs roll dodge in some way, maybe increased immunity, or significantly decreased cost. Another abilty might be an attack/manuevre that makes you attack the opponent from the rear or flank, which would sync and chain into surprise attack fairly well. The passives could encourage a dodge role type play style to enhance the the idea of agility in assassins. Abilities would cost predominantly stamina but would still have clear benefits to mag as well.
There would be lots of options here, and i think it would be a great way to add class identity to stam builds while avoiding accidental homoginization and removal of magicka utility. It would also give class enthusiasts/specialists like my self something new to get excited about and build with.
I think it would really open up build diversity in general. Depending on how it was implemented.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes - Change all affected class skills to scale this way.Sylvermynx wrote: »I never got this whole system.... over 1.5 years later I still don't.
It's a slapdash mishmash of some of Skyrim's more popular mods.
There's a popular mod which add morphs to spells. ESO copies that.
There's a popular mod which scales spell damage to maximum magicka. ESO copies that.
Though that mod only exists as a cheap and nasty fix to Skyrim's notoriously lopsided scaling where weapon damage drastically outscales magical.
There's no popular mod which adds classes. Especially ones which force every class to use magic. That's just whacky old ZO.
Here's where it gets curly with Zenimax's typical trying to have it both ways.
Player freedom blah blah blah pick your stats blah blah blah but soft caps. At launch they very effectively punished players pouring all their points into a single stat. They also very effectively nerfed racials which boosted max resources.
"Race really matters," ZO whispers conspiratorially to players who want that.
"Soft caps make racial passives meaningless," ZO whispers conspiratorially to the other flavour of player.
Much like ZO simultaneously decrying that class does / doesn't matter, while delivering 4 classes with very specialised abilities.
Many players saw through the lies. They also didn't love being forced to use magic and ZO's solution was the "stamina morph", i.e. magic-which-consumes stamina. And went nuts converting lots of abilities. Also removed soft caps.
On top of that there's the insanity of animation cancelling and "weaving" nonsense. The former is a staple in some MMOs. Weaving might an ESO original. I've not seen anything like it before.
All of which creates a sharp divide.
Many players just play using abilities. Solo and even a lot of group content is easy enough that that's effective. DLC vet content and pvp however, really require buying into the animation cancelling, weaving, rotations nonsense. Which means the players who don't and will never enjoy that style of play, simply ignore that content. No matter how many midyear mayhems ZO try to cram into a year.
I never used combat mods in Skyrim, so didn't realize about all that! I've always been perfectly happy with the vanilla combat in the game. Interesting. Thanks for the info!0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I want this basically for ALL skills in game. Let skills scale with whichever source is higher. Just imagine Stamina Staff builds or Magicka 2h builds, Magicka Bow builds... the options are endless.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭OtherSeraphayel wrote: »I want this basically for ALL skills in game. Let skills scale with whichever source is higher. Just imagine Stamina Staff builds or Magicka 2h builds, Magicka Bow builds... the options are endless.
While a agree there there needs to be some kind of spellsword implementation in this game, if that happened each class would end up with a single meta build to rule them all, and then one class would end up on the top of that list and the game would get really boring really quickly.
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D0PAMINE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes - Change some affected class skills to scale this way.
Agreed. Sometimes lurking is the way to go.0
