Arbitrary changes to core gameplay mechanics only serve to sour otherwise fine patch notes

Sorbin
Sorbin
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So, here we are. Another set of patch notes, another series of changes that seemingly no one in the community asked for to change the game into a vision that no one can understand, seemingly, even the devs themselves.

I was almost pleasantly surprised with these patch notes at first. Subtle tweaks to old sets, some interesting new ones theorycraft with, and then suddenly, there it was: the changes to Off Balance and Dizzy Swing, in signature ZOS fashion, coming in to shake things up for reasons no one can seem to articulate.

First of all, no one wanted the stun back on Dizzy Swing. We've done what you always said to do: we adapted. We've embraced the Off Balance mechanic, hell, it's even enjoyable. Landing a clean medium-weave off of a Dizzy feels nice. The skill remains just as easy to counter as it always has been, but due to the insanely underwhelming nature of most stam spammables, it remains the frontrunner for any stam class that's not a Templar.

But, for whatever reason, that's not good enough for ZOS. Now, we have to add that stun BACK to Dizzy in a way that rewards brainlessly spamming it. And then to "balance" this, we have to rework Off Balance, a mechanic that has existed in this game without complaint since launch. Now, I'm a believer that most balance tweaks need to abide by the principle of "First, do no harm," and this already doesn't pass the smell test: MagDKs will now have a morph gutted by this change, and Stamden DPS, who are already in the gutter, will be further pushed to the bottom if attempting to use their class spammable.

The question I have is: why? Why make these entirely arbitrary changes to mechanics that no one is complaining about? If the goal here was to create parity between PvE and PvP, here's a tip: that's exactly what we DON'T need in this game. We need MORE mechanics that behave fundamentally different between PvE and PvP so that these balance passes can stop stepping on each other's toes.

So yes, I'm creating one more post about this because I think it merits the discussion and the feedback, as clearly many others do. Come on ZOS. I nearly enjoyed reading your patch notes for once. Do the right thing and let this go.
  • llElLoboll
    llElLoboll
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    Something that was mentioned to me recently was "what are they (ZOS) going to do when they add the new champ system into the game and have to rebalance everything that we just suffered through?". That brings up an interesting point. Are all these "wild" changes to bring things in line for the new cp system they have potentially revised, or are they going to have to completely redo all of this when they add in the potentially "new" system. Kinda seems like things are being done backwards atm.

    It would be really nice to have diversity in pvp again though. Dots, defiles, and even most spammables are either border line pointless or completely pointless. Next patch so far is looking like an increase to our already extremely tanky meta with the potential addition to easily accessible major berserk. We need build diversity brought back into pvp.
  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    I pre-ordered Greymoor. Day one. Then the PTS came out...blocks messed up, cast time on leap, fiddling with off balance.

    You can just IMAGINE how they are gonna break things when they fiddle with cp. I’m gonna get a refund! They just suck the fun COMPLETELY out of the game.

    I don’t care about Skyrim! This kind of non-stop meddling by the combat team makes me not want to play the ACTUAL SKYRIM, or any other game they put out. Dude, it’s gotten VERY old. You can HAVE that crappy mount back!
  • NoSoup
    NoSoup
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    Your use of absolutes takes a lot away from your argument. A simple forums search shows a lot of people asking for the stun back last PTS cycle and plenty more since. Quite contrary to your "no one asked"

    Secondly, off balance has gone through many changes over the years. Some loved, some hated.
    Formally SirDopey, lost forum account during the great reset.....
  • jcm2606
    jcm2606
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    I pre-ordered Greymoor. Day one. Then the PTS came out...blocks messed up, cast time on leap, fiddling with off balance.

    You can just IMAGINE how they are gonna break things when they fiddle with cp. I’m gonna get a refund! They just suck the fun COMPLETELY out of the game.

    I don’t care about Skyrim! This kind of non-stop meddling by the combat team makes me not want to play the ACTUAL SKYRIM, or any other game they put out. Dude, it’s gotten VERY old. You can HAVE that crappy mount back!

    Why did you preorder given this game's track record? Even if it hyped me the *** up (which it really didn't, but ah well), I'd still wait it out and see whether I'm even gonna be playing the game at that point.
  • JumpmanLane
    JumpmanLane
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    jcm2606 wrote: »
    I pre-ordered Greymoor. Day one. Then the PTS came out...blocks messed up, cast time on leap, fiddling with off balance.

    You can just IMAGINE how they are gonna break things when they fiddle with cp. I’m gonna get a refund! They just suck the fun COMPLETELY out of the game.

    I don’t care about Skyrim! This kind of non-stop meddling by the combat team makes me not want to play the ACTUAL SKYRIM, or any other game they put out. Dude, it’s gotten VERY old. You can HAVE that crappy mount back!

    Why did you preorder given this game's track record? Even if it hyped me the *** up (which it really didn't, but ah well), I'd still wait it out and see whether I'm even gonna be playing the game at that point.

    Dude...ya got me there. I don’t even know if I’m gonna be PLAYING this come summer...
  • MentalxHammer
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    Well said, I think that zos honestly thinks pts dizzy is a buff because it doesn't involve weaving. This just shows their lack of understanding of pvp in their game. No one wants this change, please revert dizzy & off balance.
  • idk
    idk
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    I for one am tired of all the changes and wish Zos had thought this through well enough they could have made these changes faster so we can start enjoying the game more vs figuring out how to do combat for the next 3 months.

    However, I do understand that does not mean these changes are arbitrary. Zos warned us of major changes coming over a year ago and claim they put a lot of effort into thinking this through. I am just holding out for hope that they actually know what they are doing this time since they apparently had been running this game without a vision for combat all these years.
  • Siohwenoeht
    Siohwenoeht
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    idk wrote: »
    I for one am tired of all the changes and wish Zos had thought this through well enough they could have made these changes faster so we can start enjoying the game more vs figuring out how to do combat for the next 3 months.

    However, I do understand that does not mean these changes are arbitrary. Zos warned us of major changes coming over a year ago and claim they put a lot of effort into thinking this through. I am just holding out for hope that they actually know what they are doing this time since they apparently had been running this game without a vision for combat all these years.

    I'd be more patient if they would have given us the entire roadmap from the beginning. If they need to change things in pieces like they have been doing it would be easier to swallow knowing what the endgoal looks like. As it stands, everything feels arbitrary.
    "It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard
  • JumpmanLane
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    idk wrote: »
    I for one am tired of all the changes and wish Zos had thought this through well enough they could have made these changes faster so we can start enjoying the game more vs figuring out how to do combat for the next 3 months.

    However, I do understand that does not mean these changes are arbitrary. Zos warned us of major changes coming over a year ago and claim they put a lot of effort into thinking this through. I am just holding out for hope that they actually know what they are doing this time since they apparently had been running this game without a vision for combat all these years.

    I'd be more patient if they would have given us the entire roadmap from the beginning. If they need to change things in pieces like they have been doing it would be easier to swallow knowing what the endgoal looks like. As it stands, everything feels arbitrary.

    ZOS just sucks the joy out of the game with these ping pong arbitrary changes, nerfs and buffs.

    I’m getting a refund for that pre-order and if this crap goes live, I’m gonna grind out the last 1.5 mil AP or so for rank 50 then I’m just gonna play GTA 5. THAT at least is fun. Then, forget all about this game lol.
    Edited by JumpmanLane on January 24, 2020 12:34AM
  • xylena
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    This is what, the 4th consecutive patch featuring significant changes to Dizzying Swing? Back and forth between nerfs and buffs for a year straight? I'd like to believe this is some sort of next level game development process that my layperson mind simply can't grasp, and not just incompetence, but it's gotten pretty hard.
    PC/NA || Cyro/BGs || solo/smallscale || retired until Dagon brings a new dawn of PvP
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