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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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Destructive Touch and morphs, under budget.

MashmalloMan
MashmalloMan
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It's been awhile since this ability was changed, but by your own standards, the ability and morphs are much weaker than similar abilities present in the game. Why is this ability and morphs under budget? Simply look at the bow equivalents to see what I mean.

Destructive Touch (focus on fire)
- 15m range (just.. why?)
- fire knockback (short, 3-5m or so, not sure)
- direct damage (damage matches first hit of a dot based abilities standard, about 50% of a spammable)
- 2700 cost (spammable standard)

Magnum Shot
- 22m range (cc/chain/gap closer standard)
- knockback (8m!)
- direct damage (about 75 % of a spammable standard)
- 3500ish cost (cc/aoe standard)

So magnum shot knows what it is and because of this, it's balanced properly. It's a ranged cc, the cost, knockback and range make sense. Damage is competitive, not as strong as a spammable, but not as weak as the first hit of a dot based ability.

Clench doesn't know what it is because the other morph is suppose to be a ranged dot and this morph has to do 3 different things depending on the staff. It has the cost of a spammable, but really weak direct damage because it thinks of itself as a dot based ability, and it is short range that doesn't match the cc/chain/gap closer standard. It doesn't knockback targets as far either.

Destructive Reach
- 28m range (standard)
- 2700 cost (standard)
- direct DMG, roughly 50% of spammable (standard)
- dot DMG, roughly 100% of spammable (standard)
- no auxiliary effect (below standard, see poison injection!)

Poison Injection
- 28m range (standard)
- 2700 cost (standard)
- direct DMG, roughly 50% of spammable (standard)
- dot DMG, roughly 100% of spammable (standard)
- up to 100% damage when below 50% health (auxillary effect, standard)

So when you compare these 2 abilities, you can see their almost identical in every way, except the Reach morphs only auxillary effect is that it becomes 28m from base, that is NOTHING and shouldn't be treated as the morph effect. It has nothing that makes it special in comparison. Maybe it would be a bit of a copy and paste, but at this point... Why don't you consider making reach include execute damage too. There is no Magicka universal execute available and I don't really understand why ZOS is so against this.

These 4 abilities were the easiest to compare because they're the most similar. I'm sure you can get into the frost/shock aspect of Clench, but one thing is clear, the morphs are a mess.

Clenches damage seems to stem from the fact that it USE to be a dot which explains why it's so weak. The cost matching spammable standards seems to drag every aspect of the ability down. I would suggest matching the cost to aoe standards (1.3 times?), bumping up the damage to at least 75% of a spammable and increasing the range to 22m. This will ensure it works more like magnum shot (fire), while also making the ice/shock versions of the morph (barely used) more competitive. Don't even get me started on how weird it feels to use a 15m ranged ability.. it doesn't match anything in the game. I thought we learned our lesson when you reworked DK ranges.

Reach brings nothing new to the table and Clench tries to be 3 different abilities in 1. All of these problems started when the morphs were reworked. ZOS needs to revisit these morphs again.
Edited by MashmalloMan on January 22, 2020 11:56PM
@MashmalloMan - PC NA

PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    Popular skills get nerfed due to whining. Flame reach had been a stun for years. It wasn't until zos gutted and removed other options, forcing sorcs/wardens/Nb to use it as a CC that it too got nerfed.

    It was both blockable and dodgeable. Cost increase in light of master staff? Sure. Damage nerf? Also make sense. Removing the entire functionality? Typical.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    I admit, I'm relying on Alcasts website for damage and cost comparison. I'm sure they may be off a little so don't take the exact numbers too literally.

    The main point is the general feel of all these things together.

    Reach is simply the most underwhelming dot in the game, but poison injection is practically it's cousin with a very unique effect.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 22, 2020 10:01PM
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    Popular skills get nerfed due to whining. Flame reach had been a stun for years. It wasn't until zos gutted and removed other options, forcing sorcs/wardens/Nb to use it as a CC that it too got nerfed.

    It was both blockable and dodgeable. Cost increase in light of master staff? Sure. Damage nerf? Also make sense. Removing the entire functionality? Typical.

    We need more people to be talking about this. Everyone is focussed on vamp drain, don't let skill changes push the meta to the next best thing by forgetting the past. Perhaps these morphs could of been updated by now. My fear is waiting for another few years before ZOS notices how underwhelming they've made these abilities.

    Frankly, I barely play Magicka. Read my sig. 90% of my time is spent on Stam Sorc. It doesn't matter. Maybe I would play mag more often if some of the abilities actually made sense.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 22, 2020 10:05PM
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
  • Derra
    Derra
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    I admit, I'm relying on Alcasts website for damage and cost comparison. I'm sure they may be off a little so don't take the exact numbers too literally.

    The main point is the general feel of all these things together.

    Reach is simply the most underwhelming dot in the game, but poison injection is practically it's cousin with a very unique effect.

    The sad part is: Poison injection is no worth the slot aswell atm unless you use a master bow.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    Derra wrote: »
    I admit, I'm relying on Alcasts website for damage and cost comparison. I'm sure they may be off a little so don't take the exact numbers too literally.

    The main point is the general feel of all these things together.

    Reach is simply the most underwhelming dot in the game, but poison injection is practically it's cousin with a very unique effect.

    The sad part is: Poison injection is no worth the slot aswell atm unless you use a master bow.

    Lmao, at least in PvE.. yeah. They completely missed the mark there too but I'd argue that's a seperate issue.

    1.5x damage of spammable is too little and 2.5x was too much.. just go to 1.75x or 2x and call it a day. The ability does it's damage over 10s, why do you need to wait 10s to only get 50% more damage than a spammable is beyond unreasonable.
    @MashmalloMan - PC NA

    PC Beta - 2400+ CP
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