Offbalance changes

ZarkingFrued · January 2020

So you force Stam to use offbalance to stun, and then you add a 15 second cool down on offbalance itself. So now you have to wait 15 seconds, use an ability or roll dodge to cause offbalance, and then use a slow heavy attack or slow Dizzy swing to stun . Realistically this stun is happening once every 18-20 seconds at most. Meanwhile multiple classes will be stunning you on cool down 3x as much as you can stun.
Just to mention, there are multiple threads about how this is also a direct Nerf to MagDK again when the class is already one of the worst classes in the game,. 2 possible Power Lashes in 22 seconds. People can literally Ulti that often.
Literally no one was complaining that they needed 15 seconds to recover from Offbalance. It telegraph's exactly what the player's next move is the moment you see you're offbalance anyhow. Now people will just roll and block for that 7 seconds and have 15 seconds to go make a ham sandwich while they wait on the next offbalance you proc. What exactly are you thinking here?

MusCanus · January 2020

It might be a decent patch but i guess they just have to screw something every time. Imagine changing an ability that has been there since release 3 times in a row in a 5 years old game. Monkeys throwing their feces all around seem to be more thoughtful and consistent than ZOS with their patches.

Elwendryll · January 2020

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

ZarkingFrued · January 2020

Elwendryll wrote: »

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

3 second cool down , you're not hitting those 3 "possible" power lashes lol. You're hitting one 80% of the time. Skill will not be slotted by anyone who has any understanding of ESO if these changes stay as projected. I know you guys love your spreadsheet stats here just like ZoS, but if you account for a single rolldodge or you getting stunned ect. you're left with one weak Powerlash hitting in the time frame. I guess you could always slot it to hit a target dummy tho.

MentalxHammer · January 2020

Revert dizzy.

Revert off-balance.

MentalxHammer · January 2020

Against a skilled duelist they will block 80% of your off balance combos anyways... and now we're trying to nerf it...

ElvenVeil · January 2020

for a long while now stamina has lost good spamables.. starting with s/b nerf, and then the recent dizzy swing nerf which was really unnecessary. having a cast time on skills and ultimates is so bad, and the only redeeming feature in dizzy swing was having a stun included in that skill. This off balance nerf is so big that you would need to slot a stun, and then what is the point of dizzy - it isn't a good skill on it's own.

if this off balance change goes through (and to a lesser extend dizzy change), you are once again limiting the build choices and playstyle options available for stamina, and it is a big reason why pvp has lost a lot of fun it once had

Miloscpolski · January 2020

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So you force Stam to use offbalance to stun, and then you add a 15 second cool down on offbalance itself. So now you have to wait 15 seconds, use an ability or roll dodge to cause offbalance, and then use a slow heavy attack or slow Dizzy swing to stun . Realistically this stun is happening once every 18-20 seconds at most. Meanwhile multiple classes will be stunning you on cool down 3x as much as you can stun.
Just to mention, there are multiple threads about how this is also a direct Nerf to MagDK again when the class is already one of the worst classes in the game,. 2 possible Power Lashes in 22 seconds. People can literally Ulti that often.
Literally no one was complaining that they needed 15 seconds to recover from Offbalance. It telegraph's exactly what the player's next move is the moment you see you're offbalance anyhow. Now people will just roll and block for that 7 seconds and have 15 seconds to go make a ham sandwich while they wait on the next offbalance you proc. What exactly are you thinking here?

omg dis stupid cooldawn will kill mag dks....omg zos this is change a rlly awfull !!!

kaithuzar · January 2020

This change is no different/along the same lines as “adding cast times to ultimates”, sure it “slows down combat”, but that is in direct opposition to why people play this game in the first place; meaning the fast combat.
Both changes should be reverted/removed.

MusCanus · January 2020

kaithuzar wrote: »

...that is in direct opposition to why people play this game in the first place; meaning the fast combat.

ZOS think people are playing this game to buy cosmetics and DLCs.

usmguy1234 · January 2020

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

So you force Stam to use offbalance to stun, and then you add a 15 second cool down on offbalance itself. So now you have to wait 15 seconds, use an ability or roll dodge to cause offbalance, and then use a slow heavy attack or slow Dizzy swing to stun . Realistically this stun is happening once every 18-20 seconds at most. Meanwhile multiple classes will be stunning you on cool down 3x as much as you can stun.
Just to mention, there are multiple threads about how this is also a direct Nerf to MagDK again when the class is already one of the worst classes in the game,. 2 possible Power Lashes in 22 seconds. People can literally Ulti that often.
Literally no one was complaining that they needed 15 seconds to recover from Offbalance. It telegraph's exactly what the player's next move is the moment you see you're offbalance anyhow. Now people will just roll and block for that 7 seconds and have 15 seconds to go make a ham sandwich while they wait on the next offbalance you proc. What exactly are you thinking here?

Right so now stam will have to slot another cc just to be able to cc on cooldown thus removing a skill that could be used for utility, survivability or damage. Meanwhile magicka is just spamming synergies and deleting entire groups... but I guess offbalance was the thing that was overperforming. Smh.

Destyran · January 2020

Magplars will be ruined with out the 75 thaum passive and toppling we will all be Zerg healers after it’s ruined.

MentalxHammer · January 2020

This *** up the game in so many ways, just focus on performance and revert these changes plz.

Elwendryll · January 2020

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

3 second cool down , you're not hitting those 3 "possible" power lashes lol. You're hitting one 80% of the time. Skill will not be slotted by anyone who has any understanding of ESO if these changes stay as projected. I know you guys love your spreadsheet stats here just like ZoS, but if you account for a single rolldodge or you getting stunned ect. you're left with one weak Powerlash hitting in the time frame. I guess you could always slot it to hit a target dummy tho.

Excuse me. I know absolutely nothing about mag DK. I logged in on the PTS, read the tooltip that says 2s cooldown, and tried with a guildie, we both noticed that we could proc it 3 times on a window. There is nothing else to say and I didn't even talk about how it would be used in PvP.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Elwendryll wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

3 second cool down , you're not hitting those 3 "possible" power lashes lol. You're hitting one 80% of the time. Skill will not be slotted by anyone who has any understanding of ESO if these changes stay as projected. I know you guys love your spreadsheet stats here just like ZoS, but if you account for a single rolldodge or you getting stunned ect. you're left with one weak Powerlash hitting in the time frame. I guess you could always slot it to hit a target dummy tho.

Excuse me. I know absolutely nothing about mag DK. I logged in on the PTS, read the tooltip that says 2s cooldown, and tried with a guildie, we both noticed that we could proc it 3 times on a window. There is nothing else to say and I didn't even talk about how it would be used in PvP.

Then why'd you reply in such an "ackshually..." fashion, if you don't even know what you're talking about beyond just hopping on PTS and using it against practically a target dummy?

Elwendryll · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

3 second cool down , you're not hitting those 3 "possible" power lashes lol. You're hitting one 80% of the time. Skill will not be slotted by anyone who has any understanding of ESO if these changes stay as projected. I know you guys love your spreadsheet stats here just like ZoS, but if you account for a single rolldodge or you getting stunned ect. you're left with one weak Powerlash hitting in the time frame. I guess you could always slot it to hit a target dummy tho.

Excuse me. I know absolutely nothing about mag DK. I logged in on the PTS, read the tooltip that says 2s cooldown, and tried with a guildie, we both noticed that we could proc it 3 times on a window. There is nothing else to say and I didn't even talk about how it would be used in PvP.

Then why'd you reply in such an "ackshually..." fashion, if you don't even know what you're talking about beyond just hopping on PTS and using it against practically a target dummy?

I don't even know what you're crusading against. I didn't assume or spreadsheet anything. I logged in, tested, got results, shared them. Such an intense reaction for a simple statement.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Elwendryll wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Elwendryll wrote: »

Actually It's 3 possible Power Lashes. And you can make them in a 6s window.

3 second cool down , you're not hitting those 3 "possible" power lashes lol. You're hitting one 80% of the time. Skill will not be slotted by anyone who has any understanding of ESO if these changes stay as projected. I know you guys love your spreadsheet stats here just like ZoS, but if you account for a single rolldodge or you getting stunned ect. you're left with one weak Powerlash hitting in the time frame. I guess you could always slot it to hit a target dummy tho.

Excuse me. I know absolutely nothing about mag DK. I logged in on the PTS, read the tooltip that says 2s cooldown, and tried with a guildie, we both noticed that we could proc it 3 times on a window. There is nothing else to say and I didn't even talk about how it would be used in PvP.

Then why'd you reply in such an "ackshually..." fashion, if you don't even know what you're talking about beyond just hopping on PTS and using it against practically a target dummy?

I don't even know what you're crusading against. I didn't assume or spreadsheet anything. I logged in, tested, got results, shared them. Such an intense reaction for a simple statement.

1. I ain't the original dude you were talking to, kek.

2. I'm just pointing out the fact that you came in and went "actually, it's 3 possible Power Lashes, and you can make them in a 6s window", while admitting that you know absolutely nothing about magDK, and seemingly haven't played it in PvP where you can't just wail on a guy uninterrupted.

In actuality, you're lucky to land a Power Lash immediately following your stun, since you need that stun to set up that Power Lash (1 second), then need to follow that up immediately with a leap to ensure your leap lands (2 seconds), then land your Power Lash (3 seconds).

Your opponent has 2-3 full seconds to block or dodge your Power Lash, at which point you've missed your burst window and you get the heal super late.

3. Point being, if you don't know anything about magDK, maybe don't talk about magDK? You can't possibly understand why this is an issue unless you've actually had a good amount of experience using Flame Lash in PvP, let alone at all. And if you must come in and say something, maybe say it a bit more politely, as an inquiry into whether you're right or not? "In my testing, I found that you can get 3 Power Lashes off within a 6 second window, off of the same off balance effect, is there something preventing magDK's from doing this in actual fights?"

Like, I'm sorry that I was a bit blunt with you, but this is a very real problem that is actually extremely infuriating. The forums have a habit of talking about stuff they have no experience in using, which only causes misconceptions and undeserved nerfs to get thrown around.

Elwendryll · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

In actuality, you're lucky to land a Power Lash immediately following your stun, since you need that stun to set up that Power Lash (1 second), then need to follow that up immediately with a leap to ensure your leap lands (2 seconds), then land your Power Lash (3 seconds).

Your opponent has 2-3 full seconds to block or dodge your Power Lash, at which point you've missed your burst window and you get the heal super late.

Sure. But in that particular instance I was talking about procs of the ability, and cast opportunities, and that has nothing to do with my knowledge of the class. Whether it lands or not wasn't really in the scope of what I tested, because some people looked genuinely confused regarding how the new mechanic works, i.e. off balance not being consumed by anything and always lasting 7 seconds.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Elwendryll wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

In actuality, you're lucky to land a Power Lash immediately following your stun, since you need that stun to set up that Power Lash (1 second), then need to follow that up immediately with a leap to ensure your leap lands (2 seconds), then land your Power Lash (3 seconds).

Your opponent has 2-3 full seconds to block or dodge your Power Lash, at which point you've missed your burst window and you get the heal super late.

Sure. But in that particular instance I was talking about procs of the ability, and cast opportunities, and that has nothing to do with my knowledge of the class. Whether it lands or not wasn't really in the scope of what I tested, because some people looked genuinely confused regarding how the new mechanic works, i.e. off balance not being consumed by anything and always lasting 7 seconds.

How it actually functions in a fight is absolutely relevant to how it works. Even though in theory you can get 3 procs off, in reality you're lucky to get 1 off when you actually want in PvP. The game functions in reality, not theory, so therefore reality is going to reflect how it works way more accurately.

Again, it's fine if you don't know how it works in reality, it's fine if you ask how accurate the theoretical functionality is. But it's not fine to come in and say "actually, you can get it off 3 times in 6 seconds", ignoring (or, in your case, simply not knowing about) the fact that it's very telegraphed, making it very easy to dodge/block.

juhislihis19 · January 2020

Less Off Balance means even less damage. So tank meta prevails!

relentless_turnip · January 2020

juhislihis19 wrote: »

Less Off Balance means even less damage. So tank meta prevails!

It isn't necessarily less damage in fact it gives you a 7 second window to do more damage...
What it does is add a condition that means you have only those 7 seconds(as a MagDK using flame lash) to kill someone.
Then 15 secs to survive and build up to that window again.

I think this is less of a problem with dizzy as firstly you can just slot another stun and just benefit from the extra damage during those 7 seconds.
Secondly you can just spam it again which most people were upset the last time they changed it. I think they should just keeps it as it is...

If they have to change it, they need to change how power lash is proc'd or let it bypass the cooldown.

OG_Kaveman · January 2020

doesnt off balance cooldown just apply to bosses? not regular mobs and not players as well?

Joy_Division · January 2020

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

Off balance stun is high level gameplay now it only has a 33% uptime. Honestly don’t think Zeni plays PvP if they did they would realize that vs another class that can CC every 7 seconds has a huge advantage. Bad change for no good reason.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Against players? Pretty sure there isn't one.

There is a 15 second cooldown against bosses, which is probably the reason for this change, they're trying to line off balance behaviour against players up with off balance behaviour against bosses.

Problem is, they're completely ignoring that the two aren't comparable at all, as always.

OG_Kaveman · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Against players? Pretty sure there isn't one.

There is a 15 second cooldown against bosses, which is probably the reason for this change, they're trying to line off balance behaviour against players up with off balance behaviour against bosses.

Problem is, they're completely ignoring that the two aren't comparable at all, as always.

that is the thing, i dont see anywhere in the patch notes that say that off balances cool down will be applying to players as well.

Off Balance will now properly update its size against the varying Target Dummies.

Updated Off Balance to behave more consistently across content in the game.

Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.

Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.

Off Balance is no longer consumed on targets from Heavy Attacks or abilities.

Note these rules may be irrelevant in some areas, such as tutorials, where the core focus is teaching the behavior of what Off Balance does

nowhere does this say that this applies to players.

MusCanus · January 2020

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Against players? Pretty sure there isn't one.

There is a 15 second cooldown against bosses, which is probably the reason for this change, they're trying to line off balance behaviour against players up with off balance behaviour against bosses.

Problem is, they're completely ignoring that the two aren't comparable at all, as always.

that is the thing, i dont see anywhere in the patch notes that say that off balances cool down will be applying to players as well.

I don't see anywhere in the patch notes that say that off balances cool down won't be applying to players.

Given the ZOS ignorance people expect the worse and are probably right.

Fur_like_snow · January 2020

Okay so what was OP about off balance that needed reworked. Was it the stun? Was it resource return? Was it power lash synergy? The damn debuff can be cleansed. Players can block the heavy stun. Power lash can be dodged. And it consumed the debuff when it did stun so it required strategy to use correctly. What about the live version of off balance is OP that requires a nerf to 15 second cool down? Or is this some kind of PvE nerf??

I’m just smh at this change.

Ryanoxx · January 2020

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Against players? Pretty sure there isn't one.

There is a 15 second cooldown against bosses, which is probably the reason for this change, they're trying to line off balance behaviour against players up with off balance behaviour against bosses.

Problem is, they're completely ignoring that the two aren't comparable at all, as always.

that is the thing, i dont see anywhere in the patch notes that say that off balances cool down will be applying to players as well.

Off Balance will now properly update its size against the varying Target Dummies.

Updated Off Balance to behave more consistently across content in the game.

Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.

Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.

Off Balance is no longer consumed on targets from Heavy Attacks or abilities.

Note these rules may be irrelevant in some areas, such as tutorials, where the core focus is teaching the behavior of what Off Balance does

nowhere does this say that this applies to players.

It does apply to players... rip flame lash

Wheresthetea11 · January 2020

Off Balance will now properly update its size against the varying Target Dummies.

Updated Off Balance to behave more consistently across content in the game.

Off Balance now lasts 7 seconds from player sourced abilities and sets.

Off Balance is no longer reapplied to a target for 15 seconds once the original source of Off Balance ends. This cooldown is displayed as a debuff on targets once they are affected.

Off Balance is no longer consumed on targets from Heavy Attacks or abilities.

Note these rules may be irrelevant in some areas, such as tutorials, where the core focus is teaching the behavior of what Off Balance does

While it doesn’t explicitly state players will/will not be effected, it does mention consistency across content. I’m sure we as players can assume it means pve content and pvp content.

My question is does the cool down effect the tactician passive? Or is it just player abilities/sets.

Joy_Division · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I haven't played the game much in months so I'm a little fuzzy with off-balance. What is the cooldown for off blanace on Live? I know they put one in a few patches ago.

Against players? Pretty sure there isn't one.

There is a 15 second cooldown against bosses, which is probably the reason for this change, they're trying to line off balance behaviour against players up with off balance behaviour against bosses.

Problem is, they're completely ignoring that the two aren't comparable at all, as always.

Hmm, you could be right. The boss cooldown is exactly right, hence my confusion. Though sometimes when I used Toppling Charge, I didn't see the fuzzy lines indicating off balance. That could just be because there's a lot of flashy animations and performance usually wasn't very good.