Why is Stonefist getting nerfed?
Ivan04
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Hi, I'm here to ask the titular question. I know people were dissatisfied with how stonefist looked on live. But it performed sufficiently well in PVE and even in PVP, to a degree.
Adding extra animation is cool and all, but effectively it's less of a useful skill now, in both pve and pvp. In PVE you want to keep up your dots as well as the debuff from stonefist, and for that reason you don't spam it consecutively. Adding an extra step in order to use the debuff is simply counterproductive. Not to mention the fact that it requires cast time, which is something that no one universally likes.
In pvp it's useful for similar reasons - it's an instant cast mid-range ability that can stun your opponent somewhat unpredictably. Adding an extra step with the cast time negates those benefits.
Please, design it to be enjoyable to use, not just to look at.
Adding extra animation is cool and all, but effectively it's less of a useful skill now, in both pve and pvp. In PVE you want to keep up your dots as well as the debuff from stonefist, and for that reason you don't spam it consecutively. Adding an extra step in order to use the debuff is simply counterproductive. Not to mention the fact that it requires cast time, which is something that no one universally likes.
In pvp it's useful for similar reasons - it's an instant cast mid-range ability that can stun your opponent somewhat unpredictably. Adding an extra step with the cast time negates those benefits.
Please, design it to be enjoyable to use, not just to look at.
5
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ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer2 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.0 -
lucky_Sage✭✭✭✭✭they need to get the idea of it being range out of there head range doesn't fit a DK make it a melee spammable and every 3rd hit ignores armor. the buff you get last 5 seconds and refreshes every stack up to 3 then ignores armor.DC PC NA
Magdk - main
Stamcro - alt
AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
magdk
magblade
stamplar
magden
magsorc0 -
MyPrist✭✭✭I did not see any nerf and i like new version, the animation is perfect. I do not see where you see nerf, but if it will become even beter, will not be a problem for me.
For now, i can not see any problems with it, with its 1st pary that it is casting and etc.
Can you pls write in more detail why it is a problem? Becouse now it looks like cry with no reason for me?
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Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
MyPrist✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.
Do aoe proc stager?0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.
Do aoe proc stager?
When I tested it earlier today it did, although I don't know if it procs on every enemy hit or just one.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
satanio✭✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.
Do aoe proc stager?
When I tested it earlier today it did, although I don't know if it procs on every enemy hit or just one.
AoE does not proc stagger.1 -
yeyesil✭✭I did not see any nerf and i like new version, the animation is perfect. I do not see where you see nerf, but if it will become even beter, will not be a problem for me.
For now, i can not see any problems with it, with its 1st pary that it is casting and etc.
Can you pls write in more detail why it is a problem? Becouse now it looks like cry with no reason for me?
Yeah there is no nerf to this skill because it was always a bad skill in PVP. Stamdks want a classbased spammable not just a good looking animation skill. It doesnt do enough damage and the stun from this ability isnt reliable. The extra damage taken bonus is also useless in pvp. Its a range attack that doesnt fit stamdk playstyle and easy to dodge or block the skill. Now they make it cast time and its even worse. No stamdks will use it in pvp instead of dizzy.0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.
Do aoe proc stager?
When I tested it earlier today it did, although I don't know if it procs on every enemy hit or just one.
AoE does not proc stagger.
I checked again, it really doesn't. That's a disaster for DD rotations.
I really don't know what their intention is with this skill.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.2 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I really like all the animations of the ability, but in practice it feels like a mess.
1. Remove the cast time.
2. Keep the first cast as an aoe stomp, make the range 7m to match the dk 7m toolkit.
3. Stomp should apply 1 stack of stagger to all enemies hit, aoe so undodgeable.
4. Keep 3 orb mechanic, but make them instant melee damage, 5m range (buffed to 7m via passive)
5. Buff the damage by 10-15% to make it more competitive now that it's melee instead of ranged.
6. Instead of 3rd orb stunning, perhaps it should inflict off balance or immobilize. I suppose the stun may still be balanced as an instant melee ability because the telegraph for the stun coming is knowing that the DK has only 1 orb left. I don't think there is enough time to counter it even if you understood the telegraph, anticipating the stun has to be timed reasonably, so you don't waste 5+ seconds wondering when to block vs an instant melee stun.. Perhaps the stomp applies the orbs for only 5-6 seconds instead of 10s so by the time you get to your last orb, you have 1-3s to fire it off. This would be much more reasonable as a telegraph.
I think by tweaking it this way, it can be really fun to use. Having a ground pound on first and every 4th cast is super cool, especially for spreading the first stack of stagger on multiple enemies. Having this ability be 28m range is really dragging the potential of this into the drain.
I think we can all agree the stomp and orbs are really nice and visually apealing instead of poop fist.
Edit: mostly point 6.Edited by MashmalloMan on January 22, 2020 10:59AM2 -
satanio✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I really like all the animations of the ability, but in practice it feels like a mess.
1. Remove the cast time.
2. Keep the first cast as an aoe stomp, make the range 7m to match the dk 7m toolkit.
3. Stomp should apply 1 stack of stagger to all enemies hit, aoe so undodgeable.
4. Keep 3 orb mechanic, but make them instant melee damage, 5m range (buffed to 7m via passive)
5. Buff the damage by 10-15% to make it more competitive now that it's melee instead of ranged.
6. Instead of 3rd orb stunning, perhaps it should inflict off balance or immobilize. I suppose the stun may still be balanced as an instant melee ability because the telegraph for the stun coming is knowing that the DK has only 1 orb left. I just don't think there is enough time to counter it if you were facing the ability and could seem very cheap to face. There are no instant melee stuns if my memory is correct.. Closest thing was vampire drain and look how that turned out lol..
I think by tweaking it this way, it can be really fun to use. Having a ground pound on first and every 4th cast is super cool, especially for spreading the first stack of stagger on multiple enemies. Habving this ability be 28m range is really dragging the potential of this into the drain.
I think we can all agree the stomp and orbs are really nice and visually apealing instead of poop fist.
The first and the third point will likely happen.0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: »I really like all the animations of the ability, but in practice it feels like a mess.
1. Remove the cast time.
2. Keep the first cast as an aoe stomp, make the range 7m to match the dk 7m toolkit.
3. Stomp should apply 1 stack of stagger to all enemies hit, aoe so undodgeable.
4. Keep 3 orb mechanic, but make them instant melee damage, 5m range (buffed to 7m via passive)
5. Buff the damage by 10-15% to make it more competitive now that it's melee instead of ranged.
6. Instead of 3rd orb stunning, perhaps it should inflict off balance or immobilize. I suppose the stun may still be balanced as an instant melee ability because the telegraph for the stun coming is knowing that the DK has only 1 orb left. I don't think there is enough time to counter it even if you understood the telegraph, anticipating the stun has to be timed reasonably, so you don't waste 5+ seconds wondering when to block vs an instant melee stun.. Perhaps the stomp applies the orbs for only 5-6 seconds instead of 10s so by the time you get to your last orb, you have 1-3s to fire it off. This would be much more reasonable as a telegraph.
I think by tweaking it this way, it can be really fun to use. Having a ground pound on first and every 4th cast is super cool, especially for spreading the first stack of stagger on multiple enemies. Having this ability be 28m range is really dragging the potential of this into the drain.
I think we can all agree the stomp and orbs are really nice and visually apealing instead of poop fist.
Edit: mostly point 6.
The first and the third point will likely happen.
I hope, at the very least..1 -
Dogzey✭✭✭Yeah I don't understand this change. We have to use a cast time ability to use a spammable three times, and then use a cast time again? What is the purpose of the cast time, especially if it's only 0.6s? If we have to use the stomp every 4th gcd, fine, whatever, but the cast time is stupid, cumbersome, doesn't fit DK at all, and just makes it feel bad to use.
I suspect it is there to stop BiS group tanks from using it.
Why would the cast time dissuade tanks from using it, but not DPS?
As far as I can see, the skill only got buffed. The AoE procs Stagger, and Stagger itself has been buffed nearly 50%.
Do aoe proc stager?
When I tested it earlier today it did, although I don't know if it procs on every enemy hit or just one.
It doesn't proc stagger, spent ages testing a rotation yesterday I had to move a skill to after the stomp and ball were launched to keep 3 up. i.e previous rotation stonefist-trap-breath-claw-stonefist is now stonefist-trap-breath-stomp-stonefist-clawEdited by Dogzey on January 22, 2020 11:05AMPS4 EU [810CP] - (Clairvoyance)
PvE High Elf Mag DK - Irelia Dragneel (Voice of Reason) (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer)
PvE Orc Stam DK - Minato Uzamaki
PvE Breton Templar - Ashura Namikaze (Voice of Reason)
PvE Altmer Magcro - Zeref Dragneel
PvE Orc Stamcro - Saphira Dragonsbane (Dro-m'Athra Destroyer)
PvE Orc Stam Sorc - Laxus Dreyar
PvE Imperial DK Tank- Tartarus the Abyss
PvE Dumner Magblade - Apex the Destroyer (Flawless Conqueror)
PvE/PVP Orc Stamblade - IIzuna Uchiha
PvE Altmer Warden Healer - Lady Netch
PVP Dumner Mag DK - Lady Embers
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Craglorns HM0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They really don't want tanks using it.
You know, maybe if they gave people a reason to play a stamDK , tanks wouldn't have to suffer through that.
And if they really don't want to give stamDK a good spammable then screw stonefist, just put in as a passive and let Dks proc stagger with dot ticks, make it 5 stagger stacks again, so that way neither stamDks nor Dk tanks don't have to sit through this torture.
Edit: Okay lets say thats too much work, whatever. Couldn't they just make stagger stacks scale off of weapon damage?(like I suggested months ago? no?
) Why do we have to suffer through these shenanigans? Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 22, 2020 11:25AM3 -
Sandman929✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone at ZOS seems to really like the whole 2 stage floating things that you throw. Sorcs got it with bound arms, now DKs get it with Stonefist. I'm guessing a new vampire line will have a floating things you throw skill too.0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭I cannot remember the last time I used this Skill. Heck, it hasn't been good in a very, very long time. Now it's worse? Another skill taken out of the possible toolbox. Thanks ZOS!0 -
Dragonredux✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »They really don't want tanks using it.
You know, maybe if they gave people a reason to play a stamDK , tanks wouldn't have to suffer through that.
And if they really don't want to give stamDK a good spammable then screw stonefist, just put in as a passive and let Dks proc stagger with dot ticks, make it 5 stagger stacks again, so that way neither stamDks nor Dk tanks don't have to sit through this torture.
Edit: Okay lets say thats too much work, whatever. Couldn't they just make stagger stacks scale off of weapon damage?(like I suggested months ago? no? ) Why do we have to suffer through these shenanigans?
Nah that makes way too much sense. Gotta make Dk tanks suffer more through the resource management game.1
