New StoneFist - Ranged and cast time spammable feels bad

Trancestor · January 2020

MAKE IT MELEE FFS!! And why tf does it get a cast time??? Same animation as fragment shield as well nice! Why is it so hard for you to get this skill right ZoS?

JusticeSouldier · January 2020

Imho it's animation should be like here

@ZOS_Gilliam please take a look, curernt skill at pts doesn't fit dk's nature, stone balls around looks nice but not for stamdk at all.
It should be melee punch with real stone fist without clunky traveling time and pebble throwing animation.

amir412 · January 2020

LMAO i didnt even knew this skill has a cast time, Another useless skill to the list.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please close this thread.

amir412 · January 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

I like the range. Please don't change it. Necro's and warden have ranged attacks why should the DK not have a ranged attack as well.

Because it harms the skill more than it helps, the range doesn't benefit a class that's playing in meele range only

They do have ranged attack, yet all of them use dizzying.
GO FIGURE kappa

Sanguinor2 · January 2020

With flame lash dying next patch there is a Morph Opening for stamwhip.^^
If my magdk looses flame lash I´d much rather loose it to stamwhip than to some useless Morph no one will Play.

Artorias24 · January 2020

MyPrist wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

MyPrist wrote: »

I try it on PVE build - it is really not bad spammable. It have more range , just to let you do not lose stacks more easy.

It is not something, just to spam. You power up your dots with it.

3 hits=200 dps to each tick.

200 on la, 100 on each dot and poison status, 200 on relick and charge and hail.

Like + 1000. Statick damage. Not just stupid spam for damage. Another idea behind it.

And it is really interesting thing.

You can use any other stupid spamable - you have a lot of them. It is really interesting skill unique for dk. Not just a spam spam, like little spamable debuff. If you make it melee you will lose stacks in a lot of situations.

This post was entirely based on PvP and PvE means nothing in the discussion because NPCs don't react to incoming damage like players do.

The skill is absolutely horrible for PvP and it comes down to its range, it's useless casttime and a pathetic secondary effect

You have not got another spamables in pvp ? Or you just want the one that will just be your class skill ?

I see people, thay say about pvp, but some of tham play pve as bad.... as i can not even say.

If some one can not kill mob he is not pvp, he is bad player and need ltp.

If player is pvp he can easely kill mobs, boss and etc.

I am not the best in pvp, there are people who have more exp and play better. But i am not easy win for tham. I was emperror, have a lot of 3 in 1 on main and alt characters.

But even i can say - it is not a problem to use another spamable in pvp.

Even in pvp it is good. It gives stun, stager, looks really cool. No problem with it in pve or pvp now.

I think that cast time was made for monster helmets and sets, that activates on cast. To make new sets work more simple on DK. But with mana on it may be i am wrong.

I think you dont get what the devs and players are trying to do.

They want to give stamina DK a class spammable to not force them into using non class spammable. To give them more class idendity.

Your Argument "just use another spammable" is so out of touch with the whole topic you should really take a deep breath and rethink what you just wrote.

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

On live it is at least okay PVP spammable against non-wardens and decent PVE spammable + tank's raid buff ability.
This new one... so it has reduced damage from what I see and cast time.
It is very bad for PVE tanks, because any cast time ability is risk of one shot by raid boss + it will have 33% increased cost to keep it up. For PVE dps i'm sure they'll prefer wreckling blow or lethal arrow or whatever...
for PVP -> no comments it is pointless both for melee and ranged setups, because ability is 1/4 melee and 3/4 ranged, have huge cost, mediocre damage, easily dodgeable, procs shimmering shield, unreliable and weak stun and pointless debuff on target...

@ZOS_Gilliam we appreciate new animation and attempts to create unique ability, but it simply won't work in practice. If you want to keep it dual nature, maybe have separate tooltips for melee and range. For example, if target is in melee range, then let 3 consequent cast be melee with single target melee cost-damage standards. Call it obsidian blade and use pierce armor animation. For range keep it like it is.
In current PTS state nobody with exception of roleplayers will use this ability. There will be even less people using it then on live.
Also try comparing it to jabs. I play stamDK and stamplar now. Jabs vs stone fist... they are incomparable, jabs have more utility, more damage, less cost.

red_emu · January 2020

Just tried the skill on PTS and it feels bad. I think I much prefer the current version of the skill on live.

Spinning orbs are nice but they feel like they should be a magica morph. And how it it supposed to be a spammable? It's like saying NBs bow proc is a spammable ability.

Just give us a nice punching animation instead. For all u care make it a stone b.... Slap. It would feel more like a stamina warrior ability and move the spinning orbs to the other morph.

MyPrist · January 2020

As long as animation is the same i like this skill.

If it becomes better - ok.

If it is not bad and is better or the same like just other spamable - nice i take it becouse of cool animation.

If you cry babys cry and it will be reworked to spme bad unplayable skill - i will put magick curse on you

Onefrkncrzypope · January 2020

Stonefist is hard. I am pretty confused on what direction this skill is going.

I am happy you are trying to give classes like the stamsorc and stamdk more than just weapon abilities. You gave the stam sorc what I call a Boom ability. This is a skill that has a 3 2 1 boom affect. Shalks, spectral bow, frags, potl, blastbones. Mdk has essentially two(rip one).

What Im trying to decide is what is stonefist? My problems with this skill:

The aoe and queued stones feels like it is supposed to become a said boom skill but it isn't.

Channels on a spammable only works if the skill is an overtime effect. The aoe isn't this. Jabs or dw tickle tickle are. The stomp is nice but confusing. Especially to a new player.

The aoe just feels like an expensive empty cast. It tells the player, this is melee, then proceeds to be a ranged skill.

The storytelling of a stomp dk will still be a story of confusion. A story of what look like a spoiled baby tbh. Stomping all the time and never getting what is wants.

What this skill? a boom skill or a spammable? Is it melee or ranged? Is it a tank buff with crappy greedy Stam requirements or a spammable that is costly and subpar damage and attached to a buff that does not make a difference for that dk?

Pve it's put it on the dk tank. Pvp its a no go.

Thanks for trying though.

Xvorg · January 2020

amir412 wrote: »

The new StoneFist looks cool, but please dont make it a ranged spammable,

Ranged spammable on "Stand their ground" class feels un-natural, I like the new StoneFist idea, it does look very cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBEgMNUFufc

But please make it melee instead of ranged, If wanted to play a ranged dk, i'd proably go for mag dk.

It's Ok it is ranged. DKs cannot be the only class without ranged skills.

Sometimes that's necessary when running 2H or S/B

Xvorg · January 2020

red_emu wrote: »

Just tried the skill on PTS and it feels bad. I think I much prefer the current version of the skill on live.

Spinning orbs are nice but they feel like they should be a magica morph. And how it it supposed to be a spammable? It's like saying NBs bow proc is a spammable ability.

Just give us a nice punching animation instead. For all u care make it a stone b.... Slap. It would feel more like a stamina warrior ability and move the spinning orbs to the other morph.

Agree... for magicka that animation is OK... for stam there should be spikes coming from earth, like Hulk smash, doing dmg all in once and maybe knocking in the air

Impalement from DOS 2 seems a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mKdp4Kx1o

BohnT2 · January 2020

Xvorg wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

The new StoneFist looks cool, but please dont make it a ranged spammable,

Ranged spammable on "Stand their ground" class feels un-natural, I like the new StoneFist idea, it does look very cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBEgMNUFufc

But please make it melee instead of ranged, If wanted to play a ranged dk, i'd proably go for mag dk.

It's Ok it is ranged. DKs cannot be the only class without ranged skills.

Sometimes that's necessary when running 2H or S/B

It doesn't give you any benefit.
You won't kill someone with the skill alone at ranged but the range comes out to be a disadvantage at the only range you have a chance of killing someone on a regular DK build.

The skill is like lamp that's only working when it's not dark

MellowMagic · January 2020

I kinda like the animation, and I could deal with it being ranged if it casted quickly and the damage was better

Xvorg · January 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

amir412 wrote: »

The new StoneFist looks cool, but please dont make it a ranged spammable,

Ranged spammable on "Stand their ground" class feels un-natural, I like the new StoneFist idea, it does look very cool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBEgMNUFufc

But please make it melee instead of ranged, If wanted to play a ranged dk, i'd proably go for mag dk.

It's Ok it is ranged. DKs cannot be the only class without ranged skills.

Sometimes that's necessary when running 2H or S/B

It doesn't give you any benefit.
You won't kill someone with the skill alone at ranged but the range comes out to be a disadvantage at the only range you have a chance of killing someone on a regular DK build.

The skill is like lamp that's only working when it's not dark

Not as a spammable, more like a stam CC/debuff.

I've never considered stonefist a spammable

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

MyPrist wrote: »

I try it on PVE build - it is really not bad spammable. It have more range , just to let you do not lose stacks more easy.

It is not something, just to spam. You power up your dots with it.

3 hits=200 dps to each tick.

200 on la, 100 on each dot and poison status, 200 on relick and charge and hail.

Like + 1000. Statick damage. Not just stupid spam for damage. Another idea behind it.

And it is really interesting thing.

You can use any other stupid spamable - you have a lot of them. It is really interesting skill unique for dk. Not just a spam spam, like little spamable debuff. If you make it melee you will lose stacks in a lot of situations.

Some people care about more than sitting still and hitting a stationary target.Nothing about stagger is interesting, it is yet another raid buff.

If it will shut the tasteless PvE crowd it is provided by tanks not stamDks, just as I said it would be. That just proves how much ''class identity'' there is with it.

It needs to change.

devilsTear · January 2020

How is the cast time on it?

BohnT2 · January 2020

devilsTear wrote: »

How is the cast time on it?

Horrible like any cast time in the game

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

I don't get it why it has such miserable damage if it has cast time. Because it is aoe? Jabs are aoe too.

devilsTear · January 2020

I don't get it either..
I was hoping I read it wrong last night but I did read correctly.

I don't see the point for cast times pff
Then give sorc a cast time for armaments and nb for spectral bow.. See where I'm going with this lol

Imagine the give igneous shield one too because the ground stomping thing is the same.

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

So initial cast time ability has damage and cost of instant cast PBAOE, but doesn't have any notable buffs/debuffs attached and after that it turns to ST projectile "spammable" with damage and cost of PBAOE? Am I right? Could somebody plz post tooltips (and tooltip of dizzy on same build, for comparison).

Faulgor · January 2020

Seems useful for Bow builds.

My only question is if the AoE applies Stagger. If not this change will really screw up rotations.

Joy_Division · January 2020

Xvorg wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Just tried the skill on PTS and it feels bad. I think I much prefer the current version of the skill on live.

Spinning orbs are nice but they feel like they should be a magica morph. And how it it supposed to be a spammable? It's like saying NBs bow proc is a spammable ability.

Just give us a nice punching animation instead. For all u care make it a stone b.... Slap. It would feel more like a stamina warrior ability and move the spinning orbs to the other morph.

Agree... for magicka that animation is OK... for stam there should be spikes coming from earth, like Hulk smash, doing dmg all in once and maybe knocking in the air

Impalement from DOS 2 seems a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mKdp4Kx1o

You are certainly optimistic. You asking for ZOS, a company which has constantly removed the interesting and unique features of its abilities, to take a que from Larian, who has gone through the trouble to even make sure skills have unique and interesting effects just by interacting with the environment.

Regarding the cast time, I 'm not sure I see one from the video that was posted. Where is it?

Skysenzz · January 2020

this skill just shouldn't exist lmao. Just delete it & remake something from scratch that is actually useful (a long period debuf just like the current one but it stacks on how much dots you have applied on the target, not how much you casted it.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

Seems useful for Bow builds.

My only question is if the AoE applies Stagger. If not this change will really screw up rotations.

bow builds are better off spamming lethal arrow, for both PvE and PvP.

The stagger itself definitely has value in raids but if the tank can provide it, then what is the point?

Faulgor · January 2020

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Seems useful for Bow builds.

My only question is if the AoE applies Stagger. If not this change will really screw up rotations.

bow builds are better off spamming lethal arrow, for both PvE and PvP.

Not as a spammable, as a means to apply the debuff.

Ragnarock41 · January 2020

Faulgor wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Seems useful for Bow builds.

My only question is if the AoE applies Stagger. If not this change will really screw up rotations.

bow builds are better off spamming lethal arrow, for both PvE and PvP.

Not as a spammable, as a means to apply the debuff.

The tank can also do that job, and that is what people are currently doing. The debuff itself is strong for raids, the way its applied is not so much.

Xvorg · January 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

red_emu wrote: »

Just tried the skill on PTS and it feels bad. I think I much prefer the current version of the skill on live.

Spinning orbs are nice but they feel like they should be a magica morph. And how it it supposed to be a spammable? It's like saying NBs bow proc is a spammable ability.

Just give us a nice punching animation instead. For all u care make it a stone b.... Slap. It would feel more like a stamina warrior ability and move the spinning orbs to the other morph.

Agree... for magicka that animation is OK... for stam there should be spikes coming from earth, like Hulk smash, doing dmg all in once and maybe knocking in the air

Impalement from DOS 2 seems a good example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2mKdp4Kx1o

You are certainly optimistic. You asking for ZOS, a company which has constantly removed the interesting and unique features of its abilities, to take a que from Larian, who has gone through the trouble to even make sure skills have unique and interesting effects just by interacting with the environment.

Regarding the cast time, I 'm not sure I see one from the video that was posted. Where is it?

Well, my bad... sometimes I forget Larian now is the Bethesda (ZoS) of 20 years ago

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 2020

I hope they dont change it due to pvp
Its a fun and unique skill for dk in pve
Let pve have its fun

Hotdog_23 · January 2020

Remove the cast time with it. Don't understand why that part was added. Honestly just let DK's have a ranged spammable like most other classes without adding a strange mechanic to it.