Remove thread
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Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Nyladreas did you look at the votes? Do you think yays are in the lead? I saw the nays leading by quite a large margin.
37% for the yays, 58% for the nays. Do you know how to read a poll? You seem to think I dont.
Except not even 300 people voted on it and yet you already try to act it out as if the entire playerbase (and its a known fact that majority doesnt even know forums exist) has voted on it. I don't even know how to explain it to you anymore.Maybe come to the conclusion that, as of right now, the majority do not want it removed.
I honestly do not care either way. The thing is dont get upset when ppl dont agree with what you want.
If more ppl want it then don't you, have to deal with that situation. They nerfed dk wings, I hate that they did it, but whatever. Either adapt to it or dont. Those are your options.
What majority? You can't even take these polls seriously...Edited by Nyladreas on January 16, 2020 2:26PM1 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And yet you continue with the snarky remarks. How do you deal with the real world if this forum is too much for you to handle?
Get a grip.3 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And yet you continue with the snarky remarks. How do you deal with the real world if this forum is too much for you to handle?
Get a grip.
Quite frankly I feel like you are a bit confused here and mishandling the situation. You are leaning on a poll in which not even 300 people out of the entire playerbase voted on. And here I'll repeat myself again: Vast Majority of the community doesn't even get on the forums, let alone vote in polls. Idk if I'm just sending these words into oblivion or what.2 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭And yet you continue with the snarky remarks. How do you deal with the real world if this forum is too much for you to handle?
Get a grip.
Quite frankly I feel like you are a bit confused here and mishandling the situation. You are leaning on a poll in which not even 300 people out of the entire playerbase voted on. And here I'll repeat myself again: Vast Majority of the community doesn't even get on the forums, let alone vote in polls. Idk if I'm just sending these words into oblivion or what.
You are, anyone who defends this thread and compares online trolls/flamebaiters to the real world is clearly living in a delusion1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »No, because it is natural to change what you are doing very fast in combat. Just look at any martial arts, fighters animation cancel non-stop IRL
But when they cancel a move, that move doesn't land. Because they CANCELLED it.
Uh, we could argue that irl precise timing would be best, while it probably would be possible to make a single player like that, mmo that is ping reliant it is impossible. Therefore you have to chose one, fast paced combat, or 100% smooth animations. I chose fast paced combat.
Uh, how about not bending the laws of time and space to land 2-3 moves near-simultaneously?
Make light attack an ability with forced cooldown just like other abilities.Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 16, 2020 2:35PM1 -
Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sorry if you're offended but I'm just stating the facts and asking a reasonable question, not insulting or being rude.
This is a very strange subject to post about in 2020 so long after the horse has bolted and died.
This subject has clearly opened up a few old wounds and It would help reduce negativity if you thought a bit more carefully about what you are posting, explain your thoughts and reasons upfront, and did some research before conducting a poll
Edited by Rowjoh on January 16, 2020 2:40PM0 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »No, because it is natural to change what you are doing very fast in combat. Just look at any martial arts, fighters animation cancel non-stop IRL
But when they cancel a move, that move doesn't land. Because they CANCELLED it.
Uh, we could argue that irl precise timing would be best, while it probably would be possible to make a single player like that, mmo that is ping reliant it is impossible. Therefore you have to chose one, fast paced combat, or 100% smooth animations. I chose fast paced combat.
Uh, how about not bending the laws of time and space to land 2-3 moves near-simultaneously?
Make light attack an ability with forced cooldown just like other abilities.
Light attacks have a cooldown, its just not the same as the skill cooldown. Which makes sense and is by design. Certain skills like NBs siphoning strikes and grim focus, as well as stam sorcs bound armaments absolutely require light attack weaving to function.
PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Soundinfinite wrote: »The entire combat system and the pace of battle is built around the intended use of Light Attack Weaving.
Originally light attack cancellation was not intended but they "embraced it".
That suggests (1) they didn't plan for it and (2) the still added it in, which to me means (3) they really had no real plan.
A lot of the coding-related stuff in ESO is really laughable and I can't take what they say seriously anymore.
Like the port-to-pledge exploit. How long did they let us exploit it before quietly fixing it?
They are embarrassed to admit when they can't fix their code so they keep quiet.
I feel Light Attack cancellation/weaving/whatever you want to call it is the same.
A cooldown that can be cancelled by mashing another ability is basically no cooldown at all.Light attacks have a cooldown, its just not the same as the skill cooldown. Which makes sense and is by design.
When you see videos of people basically land light attack and ability and bash all at virtually the same time... if that's design it's bad design whenever it goes against what is intuitively legitimate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyhLv6CHikQ Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 16, 2020 3:00PM1 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭Sorry if you're offended but I'm just stating the facts and asking a reasonable question, not insulting or being rude.
This is a very strange subject to post about in 2020 so long after the horse has bolted and died.
This subject has clearly opened up a few old wounds and It would help reduce negativity if you thought a bit more carefully about what you are posting, explain your thoughts and reasons upfront, and did some research before conducting a poll
My intention wasn't for people to argue period.
I have RA thats my reasoning. Perhaps not being a hypocrite could benefit you0 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Sorry if you're offended but I'm just stating the facts and asking a reasonable question, not insulting or being rude.
This is a very strange subject to post about in 2020 so long after the horse has bolted and died.
This subject has clearly opened up a few old wounds and It would help reduce negativity if you thought a bit more carefully about what you are posting, explain your thoughts and reasons upfront, and did some research before conducting a poll
My intention wasn't for people to argue period.
I have RA thats my reasoning. Perhaps not being a hypocrite could benefit you
People arguing in a forum, who would have thought? The horror...PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK0 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭Sorry if you're offended but I'm just stating the facts and asking a reasonable question, not insulting or being rude.
This is a very strange subject to post about in 2020 so long after the horse has bolted and died.
This subject has clearly opened up a few old wounds and It would help reduce negativity if you thought a bit more carefully about what you are posting, explain your thoughts and reasons upfront, and did some research before conducting a poll
My intention wasn't for people to argue period.
I have RA thats my reasoning. Perhaps not being a hypocrite could benefit you
People arguing in a forum, who would have thought? The horror...
argue =/= debate
I forgot the community i was talking to0 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »
A cooldown that can be cancelled by mashing another ability is basically no cooldown at all.Light attacks have a cooldown, its just not the same as the skill cooldown. Which makes sense and is by design.
When you see videos of people mashing light attack > bash > ability to basically land all 3 at virtually the same time... if that's design it's bad design whenever it goes against what is intuitively legitimate.
And why is it bad design, care to elaborate or is it simply your opinion based on feelings? Also nice that you just ignored my point that certain key skills of classes depend on light attack weaving...
PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also nice that you just ignored my point that certain key skills of classes depend on light attack weaving...
(1) because that's just a tiny subset of skills. you try trying to quibble.
(2) those skills depend on light attack. Light attack and how it works does not depend on those skills.
(3) those skills can work without light attack cancelling. you, you know, light attack to proc whatever the skill does.Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 16, 2020 3:21PM1 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Remove thread- I forgot no one can have a constructive conversation nowadays without taking any opinion that differs from theirs as a personal attack
I think its pretty silly to remove the question/poll because you dont like what some people are saying.
That said, I do agree, far far too many people seem totally incapable of having a discussion where someone disagrees with them, much less seeing things from different perspective or considering that one may be wrong.
We are all human and all entitled to our opinions, its not the end of the world, it doesnt mean you are being personally attacked and provided things stay civil and free from abuse, its all good and disagreements via discourse are perfectly normal.
My opinions are always right though eh...
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Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭Judging by your dismissive, ignorant and inflammatory comments one can only assume this was a troll post for hits.
Shame on you
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Remove thread- I forgot no one can have a constructive conversation nowadays without taking any opinion that differs from theirs as a personal attack
No offense but all you did was create a poll and a poorly worded one at that. Nothing in the OP seemed leaning towards starting a conversation.
Let alone one that this forum has had over and over again and the brief statement (question really) in the OP did nothing to provide a unique take on this topic.
Let alone one that Zos has made very clear their position that weaving basic attacks, let alone LAs will not be removed from the game.Edited by idk on January 16, 2020 3:13PM4 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭Remove thread- I forgot no one can have a constructive conversation nowadays without taking any opinion that differs from theirs as a personal attack
No offense but all you did was create a poll and a poorly worded one at that. Nothing in the OP seemed leaning towards starting a conversation.
Let alone one that this forum has had over and over again and the brief statement (question really) in the OP did nothing to provide a unique take on this topic.
Let alone one that Zos has made very clear their position that weaving basic attacks, let alone LAs will not be removed from the game.
Again. I dont use these forums a lot because I dont really like the people here2 -
Jayroo✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »Remove thread- I forgot no one can have a constructive conversation nowadays without taking any opinion that differs from theirs as a personal attack
I think its pretty silly to remove the question/poll because you dont like what some people are saying.
That said, I do agree, far far too many people seem totally incapable of having a discussion where someone disagrees with them, much less seeing things from different perspective or considering that one may be wrong.
We are all human and all entitled to our opinions, its not the end of the world, it doesnt mean you are being personally attacked and provided things stay civil and free from abuse, its all good and disagreements via discourse are perfectly normal.
My opinions are always right though eh...
I woke up to see a 4 page thread with 2.5k hits I just wanted feedback. Trust me I'm not going to post without thinking about the kind of people who are here. I never claimed to be personally attacked I just dont want a thread floating around a troll infested flame baiter upvote farming cesspool pool.Edited by Jayroo on January 16, 2020 3:32PM1 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Remove thread- I forgot no one can have a constructive conversation nowadays without taking any opinion that differs from theirs as a personal attack
No offense but all you did was create a poll and a poorly worded one at that. Nothing in the OP seemed leaning towards starting a conversation.
Let alone one that this forum has had over and over again and the brief statement (question really) in the OP did nothing to provide a unique take on this topic.
Let alone one that Zos has made very clear their position that weaving basic attacks, let alone LAs will not be removed from the game.
Again. I dont use these forums a lot because I dont really like the people here
Can't blame you. I too am starting to dislike these forums.3 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Also nice that you just ignored my point that certain key skills of classes depend on light attack weaving...
(1) because that's just a tiny subset of skills. you try trying to quibble.
(2) those skills can work without light attack cancelling. you, you know, light attack to proc whatever the skill does.
(1) Those are class defining skills. Especially grim focus, since it worked like that for ages. Furthermore, there are also endgame sets, that again, by design require light attack weaving to function properly (relequen, zaan, ...)
(2) If your really think those skills would still be useful if light attacks would share a cooldown with skills it just shows how little you know of combat. Wasting 5 GCDs with significatnly below average light attack damage just to get one GCD of burst would be useless in 99% of situations apart from at best burst gank builds in PvP.
In the end, removing light attack weaving as well as block and bash cancel would just reduce the amount of control we have over our characters and it would lower the skill level of the game by a lot. I've yet to see an actual argument from you why this should be implemented at all.
I mean just think this through. What would happen if light attack weaving and animation canceling was removed by making a shared cooldown between skills, light attacks, bash, block, bar swap and roll doge. The following would happen:
1) Light attacks would become pretty much useless, since you would waste an entire GCD while you could perform a harder hitting skill instead.
2) Damage would be nerfed across the board by a lot. This would have the following effects:
2.1) In PvE it would be much much harder for mid Tier progression players to do veteran DLC content. Additionally, the hardest content in the game would become inaccessible until PvE as a whole would be rebalanced.
2.2) In PvP it would instantly create a large balance problem between healing and damage. Note, that healing already is slightly overperforming. This would make it much worse.
3) Since you wouldn't do light attacks anymore in between skills, only weapon skills would proc glyphs and poisons, making them more desirable than class skills, further reducing class identity.
4) In PvP and PvE tanking, it is often important to react to an incoming attack as fast as possible. Removing the ability to block or dodge directly after an ability was cast would make the game much more frustrating and unresponsive.
5) Furthermore, there are certain skills that can be bashed. Now you would sacrifice an entire GCD, where you cant deal real damage or heal, just to interrupt a dark dealing sorc or a templar casting radiant destruction for example, further reducing skilled gameplay.
6) As mentioned above, certain skills and sets would instantly become useless.
7) If block cancelling was removed, I guess block casting must be removed as well, otherwise the system would be pretty weird. This would destroy PvE tanking in general.Edited by HankTwo on January 16, 2020 3:32PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭To people talking about how the pro-LA weaving side wins the poll:
People on the forums who have the strongest opinions tend to be the people who play the game the most. So among active players it's those who are most invested in the status quo, because they spent the most time getting accustomed to the various quirks. That's the same reason why back when 2h weapons counted as 1 set piece most people in the thread I made about it were against changing it because of "build diversity". Now nobody wants to go back because the new way is simply cleaner and more elegant. The same will be true if LA weaving goes away.
I don't know people who genuinely stayed because of LA weaving specifically, but I know people who quit specifically because of it. And I also know plenty of people who avoid vet content because of this oversight by devs that they decided to call a "mechanic" because it would be cheaper than fixing the problem.
For most supporters of LA weaving it's an acquired taste, and they would have played the game anyways without it. The detractors are those who still play the game for other reasons, despite LA weaving, but those who quit the game because of it you don't see reflected in this poll, even if it was reflective of the the actual player base. That's players that could have become active customers, but didn't because of this mistake.Edited by ZeroXFF on January 16, 2020 3:33PM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭(1) Those are class defining skills.
Not yet relevant.
IF there were a change to Light Attack mechanics, THEN the skills that depend on it would have to be re-examined.
A basic mechanic should not be dictated by a specific skill that depends on it. It should be the other way around.
Decide on Light Attack first, THEN use it in skill design.Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 16, 2020 4:00PM1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭like this is necessary if we want fluid and responsive combat.
I'd prefer a game where I can actually see the fancy animations happening.
If you don't even care to see animations in a power fantasy game... you're playing the wrong game. You want a tap-clicker. Just click fast and you win.0
This discussion has been closed.