Why Zaan do so much dmg??

zyk · January 2020

Because ZOS likes to enable very bad players. That's not to say everyone who uses it isn't good at ESO, but that's the purpose of sets like that.

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

zyk wrote: »

Because ZOS likes to enable very bad players. That's not to say everyone who uses it isn't good at ESO, but that's the purpose of sets like that.

Tbh, it is times more comfortable (=easy) to run bloodspawn/balorgh etc with a thought that you won't kill some tanky players, then run zaan with a thought that you might kill almost anybody if you line up your burst perfectly.

Zaan requires:
- self-control on light attacks, you should always think when to weave and not to weave, one spontaneous light attack from distance and you are on cooldown for another 18 seconds. And visual cue is so abrupt and short that you might even don't know if proc already wasted
- this is magicka set but should be used in point blank range, i.e. not 5 meters, but 1-2 meters, so opponent won't get away with one roll-dodge
- preferably you must have cc-immunity (recently break free)
- your target must be not cc-immune (so when you run zaan you can't just spam cc waiting for burst opening)
- you must have gap closer + speed buffs up

Overall, zaan alone won't kill anybody with proper build and it has trash 1-piece bonus. So you sacrifice a lot and zaan's proper use complicates things a lot. I don't see how all of that makes it good for "bad" player and bad for good player.

Canned_Apples · January 2020

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

Pauls · January 2020

Random proc, longest cd of dmg sets and breakable beam makes Zaan balanced for its damage.

pieratsos · January 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Because ZOS likes to enable very bad players. That's not to say everyone who uses it isn't good at ESO, but that's the purpose of sets like that.

Tbh, it is times more comfortable (=easy) to run bloodspawn/balorgh etc with a thought that you won't kill some tanky players, then run zaan with a thought that you might kill almost anybody if you line up your burst perfectly.

Zaan requires:
- self-control on light attacks, you should always think when to weave and not to weave, one spontaneous light attack from distance and you are on cooldown for another 18 seconds. And visual cue is so abrupt and short that you might even don't know if proc already wasted
- this is magicka set but should be used in point blank range, i.e. not 5 meters, but 1-2 meters, so opponent won't get away with one roll-dodge
- preferably you must have cc-immunity (recently break free)
- your target must be not cc-immune (so when you run zaan you can't just spam cc waiting for burst opening)
- you must have gap closer + speed buffs up

Overall, zaan alone won't kill anybody with proper build and it has trash 1-piece bonus. So you sacrifice a lot and zaan's proper use complicates things a lot. I don't see how all of that makes it good for "bad" player and bad for good player.

Because it can Proc from a light attack and do insane dmg. Simple as that. "complexity" and "conditions" doesn't change the design of the set which is horrible. It doesn't need a nerf. It needs a complete redesign just like every Proc set which has the capabilities of being used as a reliable source of damage. Players should play the game, not their sets.

pieratsos · January 2020

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No it's not. Ult generation and resists need player input to get the most out of them. Burst heals and free damage do not. They do it passively for you

O_LYKOS · January 2020

Why in your opinion do you feel it does too much damage?

TheFM · January 2020

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No, it isn't. Ulti gen will not automatically kill someone, proc sets do. Proc sets have been a cancer on this game for a long time and still are. They are a huge crutch imo

Haquor · January 2020

CleymenZero wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

There is no reason for somuch dmg

Move 8m away from enemy and it breaks the tether...

If you stand next to him and expect to be able to soak up the zaan damage plus wtv enemy is throwing at you then it is L2P.

I started using Zaan after getting burned a few times by this mag blade.

It's very simple, that monster set applies so much pressure on the enemy so that you force him into a defensive/evasive position. Your heals over time can top you up in the meantime and you can just go all out on the enemy.

I don't even need the Zaan damage to kill, I just need it to force the enemy to switch from all out attack to healing himself.

THIS IS NOT working he/she was able to keep Zaan on me evenI use 2 streaks .. still get zaan but my question is quite diffrenet why the set has to much dmg..

Single target dps from a difficult dungeon. Must be used in melee and can easily be broken. High risk high reward. Even then ive seen a lot of people just shrug it off. Since youre a sorc, just spam your ward or block mitigate it.

Yeah, honestly, I just shrug it off on magdk and magsorc. Not wasting stam on running away.

I love the whole 'just move away' argument for counter play. I seem to recall every time zaan procs my feet still work as i chase the target. Unless CCd.

Ysbriel · January 2020

It hits good very very good, i don’t use it on PvP bit have been hit by it. the “get away from it” argument is one of those “gee why didn’t i think of that” silly arguments, however keeping a shield up is the key.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · January 2020

My problem is Zaan is that you dont usually know you've been affected by it till the death recap. The 'beam' or whatever can easily get lost in all the other effects.

Varana · January 2020

"I got killed by X, nerf X!!!11!11!!", 32978th edition, 438845th re-print.

ThePhantomThorn · January 2020

because it can be countered insanely easily.

brandonv516 · January 2020

It's 2020 and people are still complaining about proc sets. You really think they're going away?

Oh and as far as proc sets go, Zaan is very balanced right now.

Canned_Apples · January 2020

pieratsos wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No it's not. Ult generation and resists need player input to get the most out of them. Burst heals and free damage do not. They do it passively for you

They all require the same amount of "player input." Ult+Resist--->Get hit by any ability Heal--->apply a hot Damage--->apply x type of damage to proc.

Crixus8000 · January 2020

Up to 20k damage that goes through block and all objects so you can't block or line of sight it lol. And people defend it by saying it's easy to counter. For some it is yes and you can just move away, but that implies your opponent is a potato, because once it procs they can just follow you or cc you.

I don't struggle against zaan since I have streak, but I'm not going to call it fine just because I can counter it. Against many builds this thing does way too much free damage imo.

If they made it blockable and actually fixed it so you could line of sight it like other beam attacks then it would be alot better, but atm counterplay is lacking for something that hits so hard.

And my idea would not nerf it's damage at all, it would just give more options to defend against it. Or you could even call it a fix because it should not go through walls and ignore block.

ayu_fever · January 2020

i just wish the cat lady would sell zaans so i can have it!

aint no way i am suffering for 6 hours in vet scalecaller and never beat it.

i can wait for her to sell it.
she has it soon i hope!

MartiniDaniels · January 2020

pieratsos wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

Because ZOS likes to enable very bad players. That's not to say everyone who uses it isn't good at ESO, but that's the purpose of sets like that.

Tbh, it is times more comfortable (=easy) to run bloodspawn/balorgh etc with a thought that you won't kill some tanky players, then run zaan with a thought that you might kill almost anybody if you line up your burst perfectly.

Zaan requires:
- self-control on light attacks, you should always think when to weave and not to weave, one spontaneous light attack from distance and you are on cooldown for another 18 seconds. And visual cue is so abrupt and short that you might even don't know if proc already wasted
- this is magicka set but should be used in point blank range, i.e. not 5 meters, but 1-2 meters, so opponent won't get away with one roll-dodge
- preferably you must have cc-immunity (recently break free)
- your target must be not cc-immune (so when you run zaan you can't just spam cc waiting for burst opening)
- you must have gap closer + speed buffs up

Overall, zaan alone won't kill anybody with proper build and it has trash 1-piece bonus. So you sacrifice a lot and zaan's proper use complicates things a lot. I don't see how all of that makes it good for "bad" player and bad for good player.

Because it can Proc from a light attack and do insane dmg. Simple as that. "complexity" and "conditions" doesn't change the design of the set which is horrible. It doesn't need a nerf. It needs a complete redesign just like every Proc set which has the capabilities of being used as a reliable source of damage. Players should play the game, not their sets.

Bloodspawn procs from light attacks (and any external damage with exception of fall damage and self-inflicted), gives 9% extra resistance randomly plus ultimate. Let's say you have 25k HP and your opponents burst is 25k over 3 GCD over fear etc... bloodspawn procs on his first light attack and you survive on 2k HP due to extra ressitance, which maybe enough to drink pot/block-heal/use protective ultimate etc. The only difference is that first piece of bloodspawn is useful for any build, and you don't need to control your weaving, distance etc.
I agree that Zaan impact maybe too high, and ZOS can reduce damage (and reduce cooldown to compensate), but saying that it is easy set for "bad" players, no. Cheesy - yes, easy - no.

BalticBlues · January 2020

Zaan it is a Magicka set that only works in melee mode. Ask yourself: Do MagPlayers want to go melee in PvP? Certainly not. Therefore, in PvP I rather see this as a defense set than an offense set for MagPlayers. Moreover, Zaan only works on one player and does only "so much dmg" to poor players who do not realize how easy it is to counter. In NoCP BGs with just one or two opponents it is useful, but in Cyrodiil CP PvP with usually many opponents, I find it hardly useful.

xxthir13enxx · January 2020

Karmanorway · January 2020

Purge / Cloak / Streak / Or run, and pray he is not as fast as u 👍

precambria · January 2020

Lol @ all the "procz not skill man I only ONSLAUGHT JABS, REAL SKILL" the most broken things in this game by far right now are =/= procs it's harmony and penetration scaling lol

Honestly running a proc set does take more skill because you have to play off of the proc and adjust to randomness instead of just spam rotations, because if you don't your proc will be wasted and basically that 5 pc set bonus is wasted, spirggans ect requires 0 adjustment of play style IT"S NOT FREE DMG IT COMES AT THE COST OF A SET BONUS half the procs can be blocked or dodged OR require excessive adjustment of builds to make them even work EG: Azureblight, Zaans.

Proc sets are OP for killing people who are unaware of how they work or how to counter things in PVP they are mostly garbage, if the "skill ceiling" for magsorcs and stamplars (the classes that never run procs huh) got lowered any more in this game there would be nowhere for them to even stand.

TheFM · January 2020

Canned_Apples wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No it's not. Ult generation and resists need player input to get the most out of them. Burst heals and free damage do not. They do it passively for you

They all require the same amount of "player input." Ult+Resist--->Get hit by any ability Heal--->apply a hot Damage--->apply x type of damage to proc.

Except no one ever dies from ulti generation itself, it has to be used intelligently. Sets like calurians legacy are just free damage that do the work fro you. No planning required.

TheFM · January 2020

precambria wrote: »

Lol @ all the "procz not skill man I only ONSLAUGHT JABS, REAL SKILL" the most broken things in this game by far right now are =/= procs it's harmony and penetration scaling lol

Honestly running a proc set does take more skill because you have to play off of the proc and adjust to randomness instead of just spam rotations, because if you don't your proc will be wasted and basically that 5 pc set bonus is wasted, spirggans ect requires 0 adjustment of play style IT"S NOT FREE DMG IT COMES AT THE COST OF A SET BONUS half the procs can be blocked or dodged OR require excessive adjustment of builds to make them even work EG: Azureblight, Zaans.

Proc sets are OP for killing people who are unaware of how they work or how to counter things in PVP they are mostly garbage, if the "skill ceiling" for magsorcs and stamplars (the classes that never run procs huh) got lowered any more in this game there would be nowhere for them to even stand.

Timed burst isnt as skillful as rng free damage? Okay.

Rianai · January 2020

BalticBlues wrote: »

Zaan it is a Magicka set that only works in melee mode. Ask yourself: Do MagPlayers want to go melee in PvP? Certainly not. Therefore, in PvP I rather see this as a defense set than an offense set for MagPlayers. Moreover, Zaan only works on one player and does only "so much dmg" to poor players who do not realize how easy it is to counter. In NoCP BGs with just one or two opponents it is useful, but in Cyrodiil CP PvP with usually many opponents, I find it hardly useful.

There are plenty of reasons for mag players to go into melee range. It is easier to land than it is to counter (except vs NB). Yes, it is only single target and therefore won't kill an entire zerg, but that doesn't mean it is balanced against a single target.

The dmg Zaan can deal is ridiculous and it is super easy to proc. There isn't a single other set that gets anywhere close to that amount of additional dmg. The only set that can come close is Balorgh - but only when combined with an aoe burst combo and with way less uptime/frequency.

pieratsos · January 2020

Canned_Apples wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No it's not. Ult generation and resists need player input to get the most out of them. Burst heals and free damage do not. They do it passively for you

They all require the same amount of "player input." Ult+Resist--->Get hit by any ability Heal--->apply a hot Damage--->apply x type of damage to proc.

No they dont. We are talking about player input as in actually requiring the player to play the game effectively. You get ult but that aint gonna do anything for you if you dont know how to use it. Still needs a proper build and proper combo to be used effectively meaning that it still requires the player to play the game effectively. While on the other hand you have a set that doesnt give a damn about whether you have an actual proper build, can play effectively, do combos, keep ur buffs up etc. You just "light attack" people and the set essentially does the rest. Literally does the rest.

Casul · January 2020

Only thing I hate about Zaan is sometimes LoS doesn't break it. Like I'll run around a wall and the beam will be going right through wall full strength. But that's more likely a lag issue.

brandonv516 · January 2020

pieratsos wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Canned_Apples wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Proc sets are a bad design.

Old instant proc sets with no counter were bad.
Zaan is actually great design.

Not really, Zaan is currently one of the few top-tier (offensive) proc sets in this game along with Caluurion and Velidreth. A magdk can stun you when Zaan procs, Caluurion is very effective for magblades, and Velidreth doesn't have an apparent visual cue.

-Auroran's Thunder and Grothdarr are good in No-CP.

Selene works about 25% of the time- when the opponent is out of stamina, Nerien'eth looks good for Lich build but never hits, Stormfist never gets off it's second (burst) hit, Tremorscale does garbage damage and is attached to a horrible/heavily nerfed killl (on top of being easy to avoid,) Skoria has a big visual cue- similar to Meteor (garbage ult unless you're a sorc,)
-I'm not even going to bother with the rest. Point is, most (offensive) proc sets are now completely useless in fights, and one of the reasons why almost everyone uses Bloodspawn/Troll King.

They need to reduce the "build up" time by 50% for them to be even close to viable.

No, free damage is a terrible design. No one should get free damage from proc sets. If it were up to me I would change them entirely. Proc sets just lower the skill ceiling in this game.

how's that any different from free ult generation + resists? or burst heals... etc... it's the same only in reverse.

No it's not. Ult generation and resists need player input to get the most out of them. Burst heals and free damage do not. They do it passively for you

They all require the same amount of "player input." Ult+Resist--->Get hit by any ability Heal--->apply a hot Damage--->apply x type of damage to proc.

No they dont. We are talking about player input as in actually requiring the player to play the game effectively. You get ult but that aint gonna do anything for you if you dont know how to use it. Still needs a proper build and proper combo to be used effectively meaning that it still requires the player to play the game effectively. While on the other hand you have a set that doesnt give a damn about whether you have an actual proper build, can play effectively, do combos, keep ur buffs up etc. You just "light attack" people and the set essentially does the rest. Literally does the rest.

Essentially you exaggerate.

Since it was nerfed, I've yet to see someone die to Zaan when there wasn't a proper combo lined up or they weren't already headed for death (i.e. multiple players chasing them).

Crixus8000 · January 2020

BuildMan wrote: »

Only thing I hate about Zaan is sometimes LoS doesn't break it. Like I'll run around a wall and the beam will be going right through wall full strength. But that's more likely a lag issue.

Since zaan was released I have never broken it with line of sight. I have been in tower fights where I jump down the stairs and it's hitting me through the roof. I have had it go through a wall and a tree at the same time. And liek I said, it also ignores block.

I don't think zaan should be as strong as it is for how easy it is but I think they should at least give it more counterplay by making it blockable, and affected by line of sight, so it actually breaks when you move behined objects, just like other beam attacks.

brandonv516 · January 2020

Crixus8000 wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

Only thing I hate about Zaan is sometimes LoS doesn't break it. Like I'll run around a wall and the beam will be going right through wall full strength. But that's more likely a lag issue.

Since zaan was released I have never broken it with line of sight. I have been in tower fights where I jump down the stairs and it's hitting me through the roof. I have had it go through a wall and a tree at the same time. And liek I said, it also ignores block.

I don't think zaan should be as strong as it is for how easy it is but I think they should at least give it more counterplay by making it blockable, and affected by line of sight, so it actually breaks when you move behined objects, just like other beam attacks.

You can't block the proc itself but you can mitigate the damage by blocking.

Fun Fact:
Did you know there's another proc set that has a much easier requisite, a shorter cooldown, can go through walls, and can even travel the length of a BGs map?