Dumb fun idea with the justice system, make it pvp?

Jdray · January 2020

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

redgreensunset · January 2020

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

Thevampirenight · January 2020

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Justice
Upon the introduction of the Justice System, a planned 'Part Two' was scheduled for a future update. This update would have introduced a PvP Enforcer system, whereby players could hunt down and attack criminals with bounties while in a PvE zone. The system was ultimately scrapped.

This is the one thing they have put on hold and officially canned some time back. So its not happening. We are more likely to see spellcrafting then a pvp enforcer system. Like I said above. This was something they had planned on doing but they scrapped it.

Royaji · January 2020

Ah, so you are here to propose the exact same thing ZOS has considered since the very begging but at the end decided not to follow through with due to its general clunkiness and possibility of leading to a very one-sided un-fun experience?

Good job!

bmnoble · January 2020

Would only support it for players that have a bounty of over 100K and to prevent exploiting, the player that kills the player with the bounty would only get a reward for the worthy, not a single gold coin and the stolen items vanish just like when a guard catches them.

When the bounty drops below 100K they can't be touched again like normal.

I say this due to those idiots that run around towns slaughtering NPC's like zombies in the Alikir for no good reason.

Any other time no, due to the amount of quests in the gold coast and Hews bane that cause a player to get a bounty when they are just doing the quests and not actually going out of their way to steal.

As for normal thieves it would be too easy to grief people just by waiting along the way to the outlaw dens.

Sure we have the fence assistant but that can't launder, a lot of people make gold by laundering motifs and furniture plans, you can just imagine, the posts on the forum if someone lost an extremely valuable one of those to some idiot sitting outside an outlaw den just their to kill everyone that tries to enter.

myskyrim26 · January 2020

If you see a criminal, whisper him - Stop right there, criminal scum, and offer him a duel.

technohic · January 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

If PVPers get any kind of content, PVEers claim they're forcing PVP on them. Even if its just a double AP event.

Tandor · January 2020

"We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is."

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/news/post/25563

MattT1988 · January 2020

This idea should of died long ago.

Strider__Roshin · January 2020

That was literally the original intention behind the Justice system. It was introduced with the original developers Paul Sage and Nick Konkle, but they left shortly after console launch, and the devs that took over decided not to go through with it. They also wanted to bring in spell crafting.

Mr_Walker · January 2020

People are still desperate to get that open world pvp going, arent they. No. Any form of it is a terrible idea. The zones aren't set up for it, and players in general are too immature and idiotic to be trusted with anything like it.

redgreensunset wrote: »

There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out.

I played all the PvE content bar some vet stuff before gravitating (as I always end up doing) to PvP, and not once did I have pvp forced on me. I am pretty sure I could play for months without having to do pvp were I to choose to do so.

TheFM · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

They couldve just done it for cyro and Ic.

EdoKeledus · January 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

I didn't have to wait long to find this year's funniest and dumbest statement, I'll always be impressed by how creative some people are at telling *** without batting an eyelid.

redgreensunset · January 2020

EdoKeledus wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

I didn't have to wait long to find this year's funniest and dumbest statement, I'll always be impressed by how creative some people are at telling *** without batting an eyelid.

And on the year's second day to boot.

Alright everyone go home, I win the forum this year. No more posts needed.

jircris11 · January 2020

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

I would not mind it IF the pvp is optional. Otherwise I can see it being MASSIVELY exploited.

idk · January 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

Pretty much this. Bring PvP into PvE zones for a game that was designed to be mostly PvE is not a great idea unless a good opt in/out system is build and the best method for doing so is something Zos found was not ideal before the game even launched.

TheShadowScout · January 2020

It has all been said.

They had plans, found numerous issues during conceptual stage, scrapped those plans and made a big fat "NOPE" on the whole idea.
Half the playerbase who were eager to gank those hapless questers who follow TG and DB stories sighed in disappointment... and the other half cheered in the knowledge they won't get ganked unless they actually go into cyrodil or other PvPlaces.

And until and unless the poweers that be change their mind on this... its hardly worth discussing.

redgreensunset · January 2020

EdoKeledus wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

I didn't have to wait long to find this year's funniest and dumbest statement, I'll always be impressed by how creative some people are at telling *** without batting an eyelid.

And on the year's second day to boot.

Alright everyone go home, I win the forum this year. No more posts needed.

JKorr · January 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

When was pvp forced on pve players?

I loathe dealing with the [generalizing from past personal experience trying to use the crafting stations in IC] hyper competitive gottafightnomatterwhat less than mature pvp players. I abhor pvp and avoid it like its weaponized ebola and anthrax mixed together. Except when, before attunable crafting stations, I had to go to IC to craft gear for guildies, I've never touched pvp. I didn't actually touch pvp then, either; I tried to go to the crafting station and let people kill me as often as they wanted on the way there. One player killed my character at least 6 times in a row before they got bored and let me get into the crafting station. Nothing the game ever required "forced" me to do pvp. Nothing. If there was an event that involved it, no one from ZOS showed up in my house and held me at gunpoint, forcing me to do pvp. The game never forcibly ported me to Cyrodill or IC and forced me to only play pvp in those 2 zones.

By the way, before the rapid maneuver/whatever other skill is involved is brought up, guess what. Since the log-in rewards, I have all of the "forced to do pvp stuff to get the skill" skills, and I DO NOT pvp at all.

TheFM · January 2020

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

Pretty much this. Bring PvP into PvE zones for a game that was designed to be mostly PvE is not a great idea unless a good opt in/out system is build and the best method for doing so is something Zos found was not ideal before the game even launched.

This games main focus at first was pvp, it was the main selling point of the game originally, so this is false.

TheFM · January 2020

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It has all been said.

They had plans, found numerous issues during conceptual stage, scrapped those plans and made a big fat "NOPE" on the whole idea.
Half the playerbase who were eager to gank those hapless questers who follow TG and DB stories sighed in disappointment... and the other half cheered in the knowledge they won't get ganked unless they actually go into cyrodil or other PvPlaces.

And until and unless the poweers that be change their mind on this... its hardly worth discussing.

If youre a good thief and assassin you shouldnt even have a bounty. All it did was take away all the danger from being a criminal. Which is sad tbh, completely gutted the depth of the game. They could have at least implemented it in cyrodiil or ic.

JKorr · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It has all been said.

They had plans, found numerous issues during conceptual stage, scrapped those plans and made a big fat "NOPE" on the whole idea.
Half the playerbase who were eager to gank those hapless questers who follow TG and DB stories sighed in disappointment... and the other half cheered in the knowledge they won't get ganked unless they actually go into cyrodil or other PvPlaces.

And until and unless the poweers that be change their mind on this... its hardly worth discussing.

If youre a good thief and assassin you shouldnt even have a bounty. All it did was take away all the danger from being a criminal. Which is sad tbh, completely gutted the depth of the game. They could have at least implemented it in cyrodiil or ic.

Unfortunately in some storylines that are pve only, you will probably get a bounty, no matter what class you're playing. Doing pve stories in Morrowind I ended up with a LOT of bounties on my dk, sorcerer, templar, and even the nb who is supposed to be stealthy. Why should I have hyper pvp players trying to kill my character for doing pve stories? Sneaking around to free slaves isn't thieving or assassination, but trespassing and getting noticed does get a bounty.

There is also the problem of players exploiting the daylights out of a bounty system, and griefing other players. I'm satisfied the devs realized the issues and decided to not go with the full justice system.

Bouldercleave · January 2020

technohic wrote: »

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

If PVPers get any kind of content, PVEers claim they're forcing PVP on them. Even if its just a double AP event.

Forcing PvP on to people in PvE zones is NOT content. It's an invitation to griefing other players. I agree PvP desperately needs new and fresh content, but this isn't the way.

TheFM · January 2020

JKorr wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

It has all been said.

They had plans, found numerous issues during conceptual stage, scrapped those plans and made a big fat "NOPE" on the whole idea.
Half the playerbase who were eager to gank those hapless questers who follow TG and DB stories sighed in disappointment... and the other half cheered in the knowledge they won't get ganked unless they actually go into cyrodil or other PvPlaces.

And until and unless the poweers that be change their mind on this... its hardly worth discussing.

If youre a good thief and assassin you shouldnt even have a bounty. All it did was take away all the danger from being a criminal. Which is sad tbh, completely gutted the depth of the game. They could have at least implemented it in cyrodiil or ic.

Unfortunately in some storylines that are pve only, you will probably get a bounty, no matter what class you're playing. Doing pve stories in Morrowind I ended up with a LOT of bounties on my dk, sorcerer, templar, and even the nb who is supposed to be stealthy. Why should I have hyper pvp players trying to kill my character for doing pve stories? Sneaking around to free slaves isn't thieving or assassination, but trespassing and getting noticed does get a bounty.

There is also the problem of players exploiting the daylights out of a bounty system, and griefing other players. I'm satisfied the devs realized the issues and decided to not go with the full justice system.

I dont think the bounties should be for petty amounts, only for an exorbitant amount, then people would have enough time to pay their bounties at said guilds and be done with it. The canning of the justice system was pure laziness, nothing more, they could have adressed all the issues the players had by tweaking the system here and there, instead, they just said hek it. It would have added a HUGE amount of depth to the fighters guild, could have lead to interesting conflicts between guilds, added for interesting player choices, and we lost all that because of laziness.

Megatto · January 2020

Here's an idea. ZOS gets a sepparate server for PVP only and turn Cyrodiil into a PVE zone on the main servers

Bouldercleave · January 2020

Megatto wrote: »

Here's an idea. ZOS gets a sepparate server for PVP only and turn Cyrodiil into a PVE zone on the main servers

BOOM! This guy gets it.

idk · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

Pretty much this. Bring PvP into PvE zones for a game that was designed to be mostly PvE is not a great idea unless a good opt in/out system is build and the best method for doing so is something Zos found was not ideal before the game even launched.

This games main focus at first was pvp, it was the main selling point of the game originally, so this is false.

@TheFM The only false statement is that the games main focus was PvP. Considering that obvious fact that most of the game at launch was PvE and the first two expansions were purely PvE it is a huge stretch of the truth to suggest otherwise.

Olauron wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

This games main focus at first was pvp, it was the main selling point of the game originally, so this is false.

No developer (publisher) in a right mind would create 1 PvP zone and 21 PvE zones (with voice acting all the quests, including well known actors) and then claim that PvP is the main focus.

Edit: I had to add the quote Olauron posted below my post here as it provides the sound logic that demonstrates how small of a focus PvP was in this game at launch (and every day since).

jcm2606 · January 2020

redgreensunset wrote: »

No. There's already too many cases where pvp is forced on pve players with no opt out. And as pointed out above the possibilities for griefing are legio. If you want to pvp go to Cyrodiil or IC. Or be original at least just a tiny bit original and ask for a new pvp expansion rather than try to force pvp on players that don't want to pvp.
Of course pvpers are not exactly known for their creativity so perhaps I am asking for the impossible here.

...? Literally the only useful PvE things you need to participate in PvP to access would be Vigor, Barrier and Warhorn, maybe Purge. Everything else is either useless, or outclassed by other tools.

Bouldercleave · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Jdray wrote: »

I cant wait to get flamed for this one.... buttt I can't help but feel the justice system in eso is rather dull for a mmo. Wouldn't it be cool? to spice things up where if you refuse to pay the bounty other players maybe those with a (bounty hunter skill line/ perk whatever) can initiate a forced duel.

They were going to do that but given the nature of it and how easily it could be abused and player feed back taking they canned it officially. Since that very suggestion was going to be stage two of the justice system which is now officially canned well it wasn't a forced duel but you could collect bounties from players and stolen items. It was going to be something like an enforcer skill line and pvp to the justice system. So sorry to burst your pvp justice dreams you can consider this as not ever happening because Zenimax was going to do it and they changed their minds. The issues with it is players could ambush anyone with the bounty system. Plus lurk in wait outside outlaws refuges to gank players and other issues.

Pretty much this. Bring PvP into PvE zones for a game that was designed to be mostly PvE is not a great idea unless a good opt in/out system is build and the best method for doing so is something Zos found was not ideal before the game even launched.

This games main focus at first was pvp, it was the main selling point of the game originally, so this is false.

While they did advertise a great and original PvP system (AvAvA), PvP was not the main focus of this game. Just look at the amount of PvP vs PvE content at launch and how many PvP vs PvE expansion content there is. Your statement is not only false, it's ridiculous.

Olauron · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

This games main focus at first was pvp, it was the main selling point of the game originally, so this is false.

No developer (publisher) in a right mind would create 1 PvP zone and 21 PvE zones (with voice acting all the quests, including well known actors) and then claim that PvP is the main focus.