Nice Bait and Switch, now fix it

Inupis · April 2014

Ah you had to enter cc info when you created your WoW account.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · April 2014

Filodendron wrote: »

Put in your card info and cancel sub right after.

He doesn't have one and i don't think it's specified anywhere you need one in order to play the game.

edit: Actually it says "Valid payment method or paid game time card for subscription and persistent internet connection required"

So if someone wants to pay with time cards i don't see why they shouldn't be able to play without credit card information. (which btw a payment is issued instantly)

actually a payment is not issued instantly a verification charge is entered as a pending charge and is removed a few days latter just to make sure it is a valid card. Your own posting states a person must have a valid payment method or a time card. Seems pretty clear.

snowmanflvb14_ESO · April 2014

Goibot wrote: »

I agree with the OP. This is a bait and switch. Even one of their VP's stated that no subscription would be required to play the included (not free) 30 days.

I believe one of the suits changed the policy just before launch and changed the TOS to reflect the decision. And decided to do the authorizations at full charge instead of the common $1 or .01

The result of this shady decision has been a tremendous burden on their CS and has created a lot of disgruntled gamers. You will reap (or not in this case) what you sow.

There was no change in policy nor any shady decisions. It clearly states on the box that a valid payment method is required to set up a subscription. They stated last year that this was a sub based game. As they have stated you have to set up the subscription ( which even they have stated you can cancel right off if you want to) or use one of the alternative payment methods such as a paid time card. They even went through the trouble of setting up alternate payment methods for people who do not have or do not wish to use their CC to set up a recurring subscription. Also, when it became clear that some people using the alternative methods were having issues they stepped up and offered refunds on a case by case biases.
"Even though we made clear how the non-recurring payment option worked, despite our caution, some didn't understand or were confused. Because this non-recurring payment option has caused some confusion, on a case by case basis, customers who have already made a subscription payment using GiroPay, WebMoney, iDeal or Paysafe prior to 11th April, and who are still playing Elder Scrolls Online within the 30 days of game time included with the initial purchase, may contact our customer support team and request a return of funds for the amount of the subscription payment."

By the way OP you misused the term "bait and switch."

Shaie · April 2014

Paypal does NOT require a credit card to set up, only a valid bank account.

I think people are mixing up test charges (anywhere from .01 to 1.00) with subscription authorization requests. Test charges are small amounts that are either charged (as with credit cards) or deposited (as with bank accounts) for verification purposes; they are made to verify that the account being used is open, and in good standing prior to linking it to a payment source (such as PayPal) or a recurring charge (such as a mortgage, loan or utility payment).

I'd assume that any type of recurring charge would use a test amount, but it would not surprise me to discover that when the charge is significant ($72.99 vs $15.99) the company in question would verify that those funds are available at the time the arrangement is undertaken.

OP, you've stated that you do not have a credit card, but do you have a valid checking account? If so, do you have a VISA check card? If so, your problem is solved. Input that number & if you decide you don't want to keep playing, just cancel prior to 30 days from today & your checking account will not be charged. If you do not, do you have access to a vehicle & do you live in or near to at least a small town? (I'm not being a smartass here, I know from beta posts that there are players who live WAY out in the boonies, with questionable at best internet & over an hour away from a retail outlet.) If so, head on over to your nearest Wal-Mart & buy a prepaid VISA card. Put $20 on it & then use that number to create your account.

You can also try calling customer service for help, as has been mentioned. You seem to really want to be playing, so why are you sitting in the forums just watching your clock tick? You've been given lots of suggestions, it's time for you to help yourself. Hope to see you ingame!

snowmanflvb14_ESO · April 2014

[/quote]

Actually most MMO companies do NOT do this. Ive played over 10 games over the last 15 years, and this is the very first time ive been gated from included time by a "required" immediate transaction.

[/quote]

I do not know one single sub based MMO that does not require this. I can only assume that if you played 10 games that were MMO's over the last 15 years they were all F2P ones. Since the time of EQ every single sub based MMO has required you to set up a subscription prior to receiving your free 30 days play. EQ, DAOC, Shadowbane, COH/COV, EQ2, WoW, DDO (when it was subbased, LOTRO (when it was sub based), STO ( when it was subbased) SWTOR (when it was subbased) to name just a few of the subbased games, all of which required a subscription prior to play, that have come out in the past 15 years.

Baratan · April 2014

It was 1996? I bought Everquest. Needed a credit card to create an account.

Shaie · April 2014

I started playing sub-based MMORPG's in October 2005, every one that I have played has required a credit card or other way to pay the sub prior to creating an account. Mine was WoW & I had to input the 10-day free game codes (they were applied as game time cards) when I created my account & prior to being allowed to use the 10 days of free game time.

epoling · April 2014

Every MMO with a subscription requires a payment and pre-authorization up front. Don't call people liars when you are wrong. WoW, which many people bring up, only stopped requiring this when they started the "free to level 20" thing. SWTOR, EQ,EQ2, etc, all did the same until they added F2P options. It's standard, drop it.

Allarick · April 2014

Stop with the blanket statements... Not all MMO's require cc/subs up front... Some do, some don't... WOW, and LOTRO didn't require it from me, but I purchased from them direct (digital copies)... Maybe they were sensible and realized that if I bought from them with a cc that completed the game purchase, my card was valid, and let me play the free time before setting up a sub... I think the issue most people are having is that they've paid for the game, they should be allowed to actually play, prior to having to pay anything else. And to those that say it's only a pre-auth, yes and no. It is a charge. Period. it shows up on your card/statement.... That it reverses later... (1,2,3 days, or 2-3 weeks later doesn't matter....) it IS a charge on your card until reversed.

Just to bring it into the realm of the absurd... Would you not be annoyed if you bought and PAID for a new car, and the dealership told you, you couldn't drive it off the lot until they pre-authorized you the first service charge....?

Calaban · April 2014

Inupis wrote: »

30 days unlimited game play included with purchase. Valid Payment method or paid game time card for subscription and persistent Internet connection required

Valid Payment method or paid game time card is listed as a requirement. I am failing to understand why reading comprehension is a problem here.

Agreed. I can't believe this is still a 'thing'.

Kemono · April 2014

Bansheedragon wrote: »

Kemono wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To make matters worse, one of the payment options "game time cards" arent even available in the US right now.

Time cards are avaible WORLDWIDE -at online keyshops

Rylana wrote: »

I dont have a credit card, Zenimax, fix it. And id better be in game tonight.

Then borrow one from your family or friend. Or buy one of prepaid debit card, they sell them everywhere
After autorization you can cancel the sub and nothing more will be charged from that card

This argument is probably the stupidest I have seen on this issue.
So because he dont have a CC he should borrow one from others?
You make it sound as if borrowing other peoples CC is as natural as borrowing their car or bike.
And what if these people are not willing or able to help him with that, then what?

As for game time card, why should he pay for an additional 60 days of game play just to be allowed to play for the 30 days he already paid for?

he may find out that he dont want to continue to play before the 30 days are up, which means he would have wasted money on 60 days of gametime for nothing.

I dont care if you like my "arguments" or not.
Im not came here to discuss with you, i came to propose a solution. And one that is easy to execute. Belive it or not but i am "problem solver"

So you saying me that your own family will not help YOU with such small matter?

When i have a problem with one of my card -im asking one of my brothers (by phone) to pay from their card, and we later sort it out.its seriously no big deal.
Borowing bike is way bigger issue
And in this case it is a ZERO cost operation (money will be drawn from account and return bit later)

Yeah -you can all just weep here for customer suport, i dont care.
But dont think this will be sorted anytime soon
(esp not "toonight")

Bansheedragon · April 2014

snowmanflvb14_ESO wrote: »

Filodendron wrote: »

Put in your card info and cancel sub right after.

He doesn't have one and i don't think it's specified anywhere you need one in order to play the game.

edit: Actually it says "Valid payment method or paid game time card for subscription and persistent internet connection required"

So if someone wants to pay with time cards i don't see why they shouldn't be able to play without credit card information. (which btw a payment is issued instantly)

actually a payment is not issued instantly a verification charge is entered as a pending charge and is removed a few days latter just to make sure it is a valid card. Your own posting states a person must have a valid payment method or a time card. Seems pretty clear.

Must have a valid payment method or game time card for the subscription yes, but nowhere does it say you must set up a subscription plan or add a game time card to be allowed to play for 30 days you already paid for.

They are literally denying you for the 30 days they said was free unless you submit to a subscription plan of some sort first.

Its like buying a candy bar and then have them tell you that they must make sure you have money now to pay for another one later on in case you might want another one later on.
It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Bansheedragon · April 2014

Kemono wrote: »

Bansheedragon wrote: »

Kemono wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To make matters worse, one of the payment options "game time cards" arent even available in the US right now.

Time cards are avaible WORLDWIDE -at online keyshops

Rylana wrote: »

I dont have a credit card, Zenimax, fix it. And id better be in game tonight.

Then borrow one from your family or friend. Or buy one of prepaid debit card, they sell them everywhere
After autorization you can cancel the sub and nothing more will be charged from that card

This argument is probably the stupidest I have seen on this issue.
So because he dont have a CC he should borrow one from others?
You make it sound as if borrowing other peoples CC is as natural as borrowing their car or bike.
And what if these people are not willing or able to help him with that, then what?

As for game time card, why should he pay for an additional 60 days of game play just to be allowed to play for the 30 days he already paid for?

he may find out that he dont want to continue to play before the 30 days are up, which means he would have wasted money on 60 days of gametime for nothing.

So you saying me that your own family will not help YOU with such small matter?

As a matter of fact yes.
It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone has a family willing to help you with things like this.
If I asked for help of anyone in my family for a game subscription they would just tell me no and to find other ways to get the money.

If it was a real issue like me needing food or not being able to pay a bill then it would not be a problem to have them help me, but gaming is something they would not help with no matter what.

They look down on gaming as if its something bad, and they think I should find other things to do than gaming.

Rylana · April 2014

So six hours after submitting ticket to speak to a CSR, still no response.

Some support.

Harkrider · April 2014

Bansheedragon wrote: »

Kemono wrote: »

Bansheedragon wrote: »

Kemono wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

To make matters worse, one of the payment options "game time cards" arent even available in the US right now.

Time cards are avaible WORLDWIDE -at online keyshops

Rylana wrote: »

I dont have a credit card, Zenimax, fix it. And id better be in game tonight.

Then borrow one from your family or friend. Or buy one of prepaid debit card, they sell them everywhere
After autorization you can cancel the sub and nothing more will be charged from that card

This argument is probably the stupidest I have seen on this issue.
So because he dont have a CC he should borrow one from others?
You make it sound as if borrowing other peoples CC is as natural as borrowing their car or bike.
And what if these people are not willing or able to help him with that, then what?

As for game time card, why should he pay for an additional 60 days of game play just to be allowed to play for the 30 days he already paid for?

he may find out that he dont want to continue to play before the 30 days are up, which means he would have wasted money on 60 days of gametime for nothing.

So you saying me that your own family will not help YOU with such small matter?

As a matter of fact yes.
It may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone has a family willing to help you with things like this.
If I asked for help of anyone in my family for a game subscription they would just tell me no and to find other ways to get the money.

If it was a real issue like me needing food or not being able to pay a bill then it would not be a problem to have them help me, but gaming is something they would not help with no matter what.

They look down on gaming as if its something bad, and they think I should find other things to do than gaming.

You're not alone in that regard.

Filodendron · April 2014

actually a payment is not issued instantly a verification charge is entered as a pending charge and is removed a few days latter just to make sure it is a valid card. Your own posting states a person must have a valid payment method or a time card. Seems pretty clear.

it's 13 euro, i know they are returned after few days but they still take it ... instantly, which is quite irrelevant cause maybe i won't have them a month from now

Still you missed the point, the key word with my post is "time card". If i choose to use this method of payment (mainly because i don't have a credit card) i don't buy it now, or i don't use that code now because that's not returnable.
Maybe i don't like the game and i don't want to continue after 30 days, time cards don't work that way.
If they allow this method of payment it makes no sense to require you to submit a cred card or have a bank account.

Valid Payment method or paid game time card is listed as a requirement. I am failing to understand why reading comprehension is a problem here.

Just to be on the same page, you do know what a game time card is and how it's used right?

Bansheedragon · April 2014

Rylana wrote: »

So six hours after submitting ticket to speak to a CSR, still no response.

Some support.

You can expect to wait for days.
Only if you are really lucky will you be able to talk to someone who can and will help you.
Most likely you will get someone who has no idea what they are doing and give you some cookie cutter response that has nothing to do with your issue.
Worst case they will send you a mail saying your issue has been resolved without even talking to you, which actually happens quite frequently it seems.

Rylana · April 2014

Any other game box I have purchased over the last decade, id have already been playing the game for the last six hours.

But no, I have to sit here and hope they might call me and actually activate my 30 days I already paid for. Not a good first impression of their customer service. Ive read they have been doing this for others, giving them a one day pass just to activate what has already been purchased, cause you know there are people out there that dont use digital money, like me.

Utildai · April 2014

Pretty sure it says, valid payment method required.... If you didn't read that, your fault...

MysticAura · April 2014

...How do you think they would see if you had a valid payment if you did not subscribe and provide the info? ESP?

It's perfectly simple. You get a free 30 days when you sub and provide a valid payment method. If you don't want to pay, cancel before your 30 free days is up. Period. There is nothing unclear or wrong going on.

Noth · April 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Any other game box I have purchased over the last decade, id have already been playing the game for the last six hours.

But no, I have to sit here and hope they might call me and actually activate my 30 days I already paid for. Not a good first impression of their customer service. Ive read they have been doing this for others, giving them a one day pass just to activate what has already been purchased, cause you know there are people out there that dont use digital money, like me.

If you would had just set up a paypal account like was suggested (you do not need a credit card for it), you could have been playing for almost 6 hours. In essence, at this point the only thing preventing you from playing is your own stubborness.

Rylana · April 2014

I would like to thank CSR "Diana" for her wonderful call and bubbly personality as she resolved my issue.

This thread is now unneeded and I feel way better ^____^

See you in game!!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2014

Im proud of the CSRs in this game. Even when insulted and accused of fraud they smile and fix the problem anyways. I think apologies are in order.

Jariath · April 2014

He won't apologize. He blames his lack of literacy on others.

Filodendron · April 2014

He won't apologize. He blames his lack of literacy on others.

I believe you're the one who should be going back to school but it seems that game time card is an alien concept in this community.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · April 2014

Filodendron wrote: »

He won't apologize. He blames his lack of literacy on others.

I believe you're the one who should be going back to school but it seems that game time card is an alien concept in this community.

We knew before launch there were no gametime cards available. Regardless the problem was obviously fixed because you do not need a credit card to use your free 30 days. It was not a bait and switch as the title says.

TicToc · April 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Your entire post is a bald faced lie. None of them charged up front while also offering 30 days game time in a boxed edition.

You always got your time up front, THEN had to sub to continue.

Not true, pretty much all subscription based games have worked the same way. You have to setup the subscription at the beginning. You do actually get you time up front, because you are not actually charged until the 30 days are up.

This is not new to this game. And most of those were not as up front as this one. It clearly states on the box that you need a "valid payment method or paid time card". Based on what you are saying, you do not have a valid payment method. There was no bait and switch on their part. You bought a subscription based game with, apparently, no means of paying the subscription fee. It seems that you are the one being deceptive.

liquid_wolf · April 2014

Rylana wrote: »

I would like to thank CSR "Diana" for her wonderful call and bubbly personality as she resolved my issue.

This thread is now unneeded and I feel way better ^____^

See you in game!!

Awesome!

I'm glad you got in. I've been enjoying myself a great deal. Have fun!

KerinKor · April 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Slammed immediately with a demand to enter credit card information.

Um no, this was not listed as a requirement on the box, and while I have no problem paying later for a subscription based game, that is up to me to decide after the 30 days are over, not now.

Um, yes it is .. reading comprehension is your friend both on the box ("valid payment method", the VOIDED CHARGE validates your payment method) and on these forums:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/comment/649191

Monsoon · April 2014

Daverios wrote: »

Use paypal. If you did not set it up prior to deciding to purchase a su scrption based game well you just learned a valuable lesson I guess.

friends do NOT let friends use paypal...you should know this by now