Dragonknights do have a support issue, as they lack a support synergy, something every other class offers in some way. Our two synergies offer only damage, and an immobilization for the standard, but nothing that supports like other class abilities do

Our burst heal requires an enemy target within 15 meters, our aoe heal is significantly smaller than other aoe heals, our defensive abilities like wings became a lesser version of itself while other classes retain the old functionality. Dragonknight as a support just feels like the abilities were put there to tantalize players, but not let them actually play the role in an enjoyable manor

I agree with the OP. Last PTS I had MagDK plans on a build, when when I tried it in practice the sustain isn’t there.

There’s a massive sustain advantage right now for Templars, Wardens and Sorcs. I think it’s the primary reason they’re performing better then classes like MagDK and magblade.

Better sustain allows you to pump spell damage and not worry too much about sustain when making a build.

No class has great sustain, DK is probably the worse then probably both Nerco's seeing as how the tethers work or don't work most of the time. Socr is third I would say. Templar 4th, Wardens 5th then NB's.

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

No class has great sustain, DK is probably the worse then probably both Nerco's seeing as how the tethers work or don't work most of the time. Socr is third I would say. Templar 4th, Wardens 5th then NB's.

Not in pvp, for mag at least.

Sorc > Templar > Warden > Necro > NB > DK

That’s primary stat, DKs excel at hybriding and off-stat but their primary stat sustain isn’t good.

When I play my templar I cut out 600 mag regen off my build compared to NB. DKs... well I never really got past the design phase, when checking things out I realized it wouldn’t work so shelved it.

Magsorc is easily the best, anyone who complains about sustain is a noob. There’s a reason sorcs never use Ele drain, dark deal or heavy attack.

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you know what's my problem with people like you who complains about a class that barely knows? Everything is theory.

Sure, I can put 2 stronk dots on you and then start whipping, how many times, 3? 4 times? Because If I go full whipping I lose my magicka, that I use to CC you, to heal myself or to get some utility.

The potential dmg of the class has 0 problem, the problem is that you must build towards sustain, mobility, and extra mitigation, because, if you didn't know it, mitigation on a DK is worse than on a Warden or a templar, unless you run S/B or Ice staff (an ice staff in the flame based class... GENIUS!!)

So, what we really want is a class that can use attrition to win the fight, currently that's not possible. Templars have much better attrition with jab spamming than any DoT a DK applies since their jabs are not purgeable.

Fair?

NBrookus wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Is it that bad? I had a mDK build I wanted to try. Always fiund the class the most visually appealing class.

MagDK is not bad. It's just not particularly good at anything. Sustain is terrible and situational. And there is no magicka weapon that synergizes well with the class.

For builds with about the same damage, stamden has more sustain, burst, mobility and tankiness. Mag sorc has more sustain and mobility and better burst and heals. Magplar and stam/mag necros are tankier. Stamplar and stamblade have more burst. Virtually any class can disengage from a DK if they don't leave wait too long, but a DK doesn't have that option.

In a meta where not getting hit is the most effective form of mitigation, DK doesn't have the tools to utilize that; meanwhile 3 classes can purge their damage, in some cases for free.

The only reason mDK has a place in raid is really throwing out damage synergies for the bombblades and providing pressure between bombs. Otherwise sorcs are better at lockdowns -- even ice staff and bombard is better -- and wardens don't need a 225 cost ultimate to defile.

Which is not to say DK isn't fun or viable. It is. It's just not best at anything.

That sums it up well. But then again, no class in this game is unviable really. I think right now the biggest issue mDk or sDK doesn't feel unique is the fact that dots are countered so easily and there is no attrition playstyle. Both stam and magDK play to burst people, something the class is not specialized for. (notice how every other class has additional burst tools but DK has dots instead. These dots are what DK has instead of other class tools like assassin's bow, bound armaments,sub assault , blastbones etc. How would people react if the other things I listed here could be rendered useless with cleanse? Thats how I feel as Dk when my dots don't even get to tick two times before getting purged.)

mDk is all about hitting molten whips , sDK is all about onslaught. Dots are not strong enough for how easily they are purged, especially in group play, one button erasing all your dots and also healing your targets, is just frustrating.

jcm2606 wrote: »

Someone on the older combat team(s) got killed by a DK too many times and formed a grudge against them, and nobody on this new combat team plays DK and so isn't inclined to help it at all. That's why.

They have PTSD from dunmer vampire dks in 2014 completley melting everyone.

There is a problem with the forums in general which is that most players here are representing one part of ESO. I often hear MagDk is broken and too strong, it has too much dot pressure and the burst is crazy. I have only heard that from the dueling community though. MagDk is very strong in duels due to it's passive pressure and additional burst. You can put consistent pressure on your enemy and burst them down if you feel like it. In battlegrounds MagDk performs fairely well and it doesn't seem bad in PvE either. In openworld pvp though MagDk has suffered a lot. The class was designed to stand their ground and rely on block... which now is pretty much impossible with the high and frequent blockcost. Sorcerers have shields as their defense and good mobility, Templars have cleanse and passive heals like living dark... MagDk doesn't have that. It doesn't have reliable heals over time which makes it very hard to go offensive. They don't have the mobility to reposition in a fight. They don't have shields to protect their health and there is no cleanse to remove harmful effects which results in having defile on you very often and having dragonblood heal for 4k and I'm gonna mention this now because I know there will be people comming back at me with... ohhhh but you can run a restrostaff and use rapid regen as heal over time, you can use the lightarmor shield and there is purge in the support skillline from alliance war, you can run swift jewelry and race against time and you will be fast and to cover your sustain you just run lich and bright throat... People might even suggest to go full damage... This does show the problem though. Why does a Dk have to do all these things to keep up with other classes in openworld pvp? You get bad results with it because your passives are build around using sword and shield. You might feel good on it because you are having fun but I can garantee you that you will never reach the potential of a MagSorc or Magplar and so on.. (This is not a secret nerf Sorc thread, I play it myself). By dealing with all these issues you will give up damage and healing and in the end you have everything else but can't kill and heal, can't sustain or will be squishier than any other class.

I will probably make a list with changes needed for MagDk again and put it with explainations on the forum. It is very likely that it will be completely ignored again but I'll do it anyway.


ps. I'm comming back from a long break and the game has never felt worse as MagDk.

xylena wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

You can put consistent pressure on your enemy and burst them down if you feel like it...The class was designed to stand their ground and rely on block... which now is pretty much impossible with the high and frequent blockcost.

You really haven't played in a while. Pressure damage doesn't even exist anymore because DoTs and Defiles are a pathetic joke. SnB block healing is the most braindead easy and incredibly efficient defensive tactic in the game. I feel your frustration though, see my post above for why U24 has been particularly horrible for mDK.

I agree with making molten weapons useful but dots aren't as bad, they are just way too expensive for their damage dealt. Embers unbuffed does about 12-14k damage over 14 seconds but you shouldn't forgive that it applies burning as well which is a decent dot. Snb block healing is not useful if you have defile on you and do not have a cleanse. You receive 4k dragonblood heals and thats just not useful. Also you cannot block long. If you have a normal build with 81 Cp in blockcostreduction with snb and you block you lose about 4k stam every second. I agree though that the dots aren't effecient enough for their cost.

Mag DK has had notoriously bad sustain for quite a while at this point, but I don't think they are being 'punished' any more than any other class as ability costs have gone up across the board. It may be more pronounced in Mag DK's than most other classes, but saying that they are being punished is a little hyperbolic. Aside from sustain, the class is pretty strong right now.

Quoted post has been removed.

you know what's my problem with people like you who complains about a class that barely knows? Everything is theory.

Sure, I can put 2 stronk dots on you and then start whipping, how many times, 3? 4 times? Because If I go full whipping I lose my magicka, that I use to CC you, to heal myself or to get some utility.

The potential dmg of the class has 0 problem, the problem is that you must build towards sustain, mobility, and extra mitigation, because, if you didn't know it, mitigation on a DK is worse than on a Warden or a templar, unless you run S/B or Ice staff (an ice staff in the flame based class... GENIUS!!)

So, what we really want is a class that can use attrition to win the fight, currently that's not possible. Templars have much better attrition with jab spamming than any DoT a DK applies since their jabs are not purgeable.

Fair?[/quote]

My problem with people such as yourself is that whenever your class gets a little tough you start running to the forums instead of figuring out a way to work around it. Magblade is MagDK..without the DoTs..and without the heals we too have to build for sustain, mobility, and extra mitigation not to mention we are the kings of not being good at anything. Your class isn't bad and hasn't been bad since they added the flame dmg version of leap back in like homestead, it's just no longer God-tier since the wings change. In short work through it the same way stam sorcs, magdens, and us magblades have.

Kahnak wrote: »

Mag DK has had notoriously bad sustain for quite a while at this point, but I don't think they are being 'punished' any more than any other class as ability costs have gone up across the board. It may be more pronounced in Mag DK's than most other classes, but saying that they are being punished is a little hyperbolic. Aside from sustain, the class is pretty strong right now.

I don’t know about that. I think you could make an argument that the devs are punishing the class, likely because of the earthen heart passive.

A good example would be stonefist (though that’s stam). It costs 1k stam more than similar abilities for other classes. A lot of the abilities in that tree also cost a lot more then you’d expect for what they do.

To me it looks like ability costs have been tweaked because of the earthen heart passive stamina return, so you’re left with expensive abilities, no decent class sustain passive or ability, and a dead passive because ability costs have been tweaked around it. The passives are great if you want to turn mag into stam, it’s just not very efficient.