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Drain Stun Vampire OP
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the devs decide Vamp Drain is "overperforming", then they need to go over every single Werewolf ability with a fine toothed comb.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »If the devs decide Vamp Drain is "overperforming", then they need to go over every single Werewolf ability with a fine toothed comb.
Imagine complaining about werewolf after Scalebreaker. ZOS ruined werewolf´s completely with that patch and if you died to a werewolf you should really reconsider what you´re doing (unless you were unlucky to get zerged by a group of werewolfs.....).
But I agree, werewolfs needs to get looked at and buff their abilities and features again.6 -
DRTE✭✭✭✭vamp drain is not OP simple its just a minor annoyance. maybe in bg's it does more damage sure but that's because you're not being carried defensively by CP.DRAGON SPAWN
Tyrion septim. Stam DK
Agneyastra. Mag DK
Evil Buu. Mag Sorc
Super Evil Buu. Stam Sorc
Carmala Jabspammer. Magplar
Get some help. Stamplar
Plebby Longstockings. Stamblade
Nightbot. Magblade
Unslaad Krosis. Magden
Dirty lich. Magcro3 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.2 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.
also this might be me, sorry
adding a bit to this: if any other skill in the nb kit had a reliable stun, damage or not, I'd use that, because vamp drain doesn't really do that much damage in one tick block cancelled.Edited by Rahar on December 20, 2019 4:00PMNeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭It is a channeled DoT guys. It has to do damage equal or compareable to a spammable or else people will simply never let it run its damage component.
My necro (with 15% class dot dmg + 10% from thaurma tool) tip unbuffed is like 6k at 0.7s.
DPS is then ~ 7800
12 meter range
channeled
fears for 3s
In comparison my Force pulse hits for 11k
My richochte skull 9k
My elemental weapon 9k + LA dmg (13k?)
The damage is not OP at all. It is considering things balanced.
Basically only wardens and necros use it since they lack a class CC worth its name.
Give them a class CC to pick over vamp drain and the problem is solved, without nerfing or ZOS trying to solve the server -> client de synchs in Cyro (never gonna happen game is basically 1 threaded and de synchs will happen with netcode in such an environment/engine).
Let me correct you there. The drain hits 5x in a duration of 3 seconds, just check your combat reports or in most cases your death recap. This means that the damage of the drain with a 6k tooltip = 5 x 6k = 30k. This means 30k damage over 3 seconds = 10k DPS. Taking into account that this skills also stuns you on the initial hit and is buggy to break free we can conclude that it is overperforming. But hey during the DoT meta dot's weren't overperforming aswell right.
Do you have any idea how hard a 6k tooltip is to reach on vamp drain? I've got a ~11k effective spell power nb gank build in CP that can only reach 5.2k fully buffed; the guy you replied to must have specced hard for it. Then you're not even taking battle spirit into account, which reduces damage taken by 50%. On top of that you have to then factor in mitigation, and even then you haven't mentioned that only one morph of the skill will hit 4 times in 3 seconds, not 5.
As this is a PvP thread, let's reduce the topic to PvP only and stop the outright lying in order to make your point look stronger.
Mongolian ever heard of morphing a skills? it hits 5 times in 3 secs.
I'm just gonna let you figure out your mistake here. Read the morph effects and the base skill.
EDIT: I might actually be wrong if there's a hidden first tick. I'm not able to test right now. Regardless, "30k total damage" is an obvious exaggeration.Edited by Rahar on December 20, 2019 4:21PMNeRf MaGsOrC1 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭So I just got killed many times in BG because of a Frozen character much fun.
But even in Cyro I have the following recap
Soul Harvest 6.2K
Caluurion 6.1K
Accelerating Drain 5x 12K
Accelerating Drain 3x 6.4K
Lol if even magica NB ganking because a thing with this skill of course this skill is in perfect working OP condition. Just freeze your opponent and win and feel good about yourself. Working as intended.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.
also this might be me, sorry
adding a bit to this: if any other skill in the nb kit had a reliable stun, damage or not, I'd use that, because vamp drain doesn't really do that much damage in one tick block cancelled.
Haha, my man in CP PvP this skill deals 7-8k in 2 ticks (less than one second of the channel). And this is against builds with 25kish resists. It hits even harder following Soul Harvest. That's pretty significant.1 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭Why does this game always have to have a broken element...... pppffffXbox EU & NA - PVP Only1
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Bullseyebudx✭✭✭Why does this game always have to have a broken element...... pppffff
Here it is.
Look regardless of where you stand on Vamp Drain I do think there’s one universal complaint that many of the forum posts revolve around and that’s the poor functionality of the permission mechanics tied to CC’s in the game; specifically mechanics like the Break Free bug, immunity issues, costs ect. Even just in general the functionality of the game is an issue.
I genuinely believe across the last several patches a majority of the complaints that come to the forums are purely driven by frustration over the game not functioning properly, weather or not those complaining about a specific ability realize it or not, the root cause of many if not all of these issues comes from the fact that someone is being cheated out of playing the game because of bugs. I don’t blame people for posting it on the forums it frustrates me to no end too but focus on addressing the root cause of the issue.
Do you really think people stopped playing the game because abilities were out of balance for a patch? People stop using something when it doesn’t work. I can’t even stay in Cyrodiil for more than 2 hours without having an entire group of 10 people turn over three or four times from game freezes until I finally get hit with a freeze where it forces you off the server. Literally, I’m being dead serious too LITERALLY EVERY single night multiple times each night for 3 weeks straight until I said that’s it, I’m not going into Cyrodiil anymore. I’m on an Xbox One X NA server never had an issue like this until this patch.
This is where it starts, a forum like this, and it ends with people realizing that the real issue here isn’t an ability, it’s that the game isn’t functioning properly and what do they do? They leave.
You’ll always have a core customer base that comes with this game and they’ll probably play this game forever, because they played Morrowind, Oblivion, or Skyrim. Don’t mistake those players logging in every couple of months to play as a regular customer base, they’re logging in to check and see if you fixed your game and they’ll keep doing it until they see the population numbers continue to steadily decline month over month until they don’t want to check anymore.
No game will ever survive and succeed long term without these three things;
1. Functional & Enjoyable Content
2. Stable Economy (More applicable for MMOs)
3. Customer Base Growth & Retention
Right now, your content is not Functional and is therefore not Enjoyable either. Without Functional and Enjoyable content, you can’t retain and grow your customer base, which eventually leads to economic instability which in turn too makes content unenjoyable and inhibits customer retention.
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Rahar✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.
also this might be me, sorry
adding a bit to this: if any other skill in the nb kit had a reliable stun, damage or not, I'd use that, because vamp drain doesn't really do that much damage in one tick block cancelled.
Haha, my man in CP PvP this skill deals 7-8k in 2 ticks (less than one second of the channel). And this is against builds with 25kish resists. It hits even harder following Soul Harvest. That's pretty significant.
Is that so? That doesn't sound right. The most I'm getting out of it is 4k crits per tick (from memory), and spammables hit harder on a crit than that, as long as you're light attack cancelling.NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.
also this might be me, sorry
adding a bit to this: if any other skill in the nb kit had a reliable stun, damage or not, I'd use that, because vamp drain doesn't really do that much damage in one tick block cancelled.
Haha, my man in CP PvP this skill deals 7-8k in 2 ticks (less than one second of the channel). And this is against builds with 25kish resists. It hits even harder following Soul Harvest. That's pretty significant.
Is that so? That doesn't sound right. The most I'm getting out of it is 4k crits per tick (from memory), and spammables hit harder on a crit than that, as long as you're light attack cancelling.
Idk what you wear but I'm sure this guy is in something like New Moon + Balorgh + TBS full divines because I've never seen a proc.
It's super dirty. Sure, he's probably squishy af but it doesn't matter when you're only visible for 1-3 seconds at a time and almost guaranteed to get a kill during that window.0 -
Bullseyebudx✭✭✭
Ahh I suppose you're right. Anyway, I would decrease the range to about 7 meters, in line with other undodgable cc's. Then I would decrease the damage, in line with ZOS' vision on cc's not dealing high damage. To keep it an attractive option I would improve the health restore element by a bunch and make it linger even after broken, and give minor expedition as soon the skill is activated in stead of at the end. This would give the skill some defensive utility, in stead of mainly being an Xv1 lock down tool.
The cost is a tricky one, but I think a higher cost is definately warranted as it offers multiple effects and is an undodgable cc that can be cancelled to the point of having no animation. Most hard cc's that go through dodge cost close to or more than 4k. I don't buy into the argument that being a vamp warrants the lower cost, as being a vamp gives other great boons such as undeath and improved recoveries. Depending on the build these are very potent boons. On top of that, dawnbreaker isn't being used as often as it used to since it has an idiotic cast time and people jumped on the onslaught bandwagon. Vamp really isn't that much of a liability anymore as it used to be.
While I don't agree with your proposed changes I can accept that they're constructive and thoughtful. This change would likely enable more glass cannon type builds instead of what we're seeing in the current meta while retaining the functionality of the ability for the most part which I like.
Things to consider; the difference between 7m vs. 12m I believe is the distance you can dodge roll; which might explain why fossilize has the added immobilization. If we reduce the range then we should keep it comparable to fossilize by adding a snare after damage.
As long as the cost stays around 3K-4K before reductions and 2K-3K after I don't mind.
Onslaught and Dawnbreaker both have a cast time, and I haven't noticed one being favored over another. Both are excellent abilities vs. anyone with the added bonus of being very effect against vampire builds too.
The bonuses from being a vampire can be very good, there's no question, but as you said yourself it depends on the build. Meaning you have to design your build around being a vampire which comes at its own cost.
When i found out I was going to probably have to use vamp drain, my reaction wasn't; oh man I get to use vamp drain! It was FML...I'm going to have to come up with and play test vamp builds this patch...uhg.0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭The obvious solution is to change the morphs. One that deals damage + ancillary effect, and the other that heals + stuns.
This skill is currently overtuned in every way. Clearly some of you PCNA peeps haven't met that EP gankblade that opens with LA+Ele Weap + Soul Harvest > Vamp Drain. There is literally no counter to that, it's free kills all day long. Even if it happens to fail you just Cloak and try again in 10 seconds when Soul Harvest is ready again.
also this might be me, sorry
adding a bit to this: if any other skill in the nb kit had a reliable stun, damage or not, I'd use that, because vamp drain doesn't really do that much damage in one tick block cancelled.
Haha, my man in CP PvP this skill deals 7-8k in 2 ticks (less than one second of the channel). And this is against builds with 25kish resists. It hits even harder following Soul Harvest. That's pretty significant.
Is that so? That doesn't sound right. The most I'm getting out of it is 4k crits per tick (from memory), and spammables hit harder on a crit than that, as long as you're light attack cancelling.
Idk what you wear but I'm sure this guy is in something like New Moon + Balorgh + TBS full divines because I've never seen a proc.
It's super dirty. Sure, he's probably squishy af but it doesn't matter when you're only visible for 1-3 seconds at a time and almost guaranteed to get a kill during that window.
This is what I'm running when I use it: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=151215
As you can see, it's a very offensive build. I can test more later when I'm not away from the game, but I don't remember getting amazing damage with it. I only cancel it for the stun. If your magblade boogeyman is using divines, he's justifiably getting unreasonable damage numbers. My tooltip on that very offensive build doesn't even scrape 6k.Edited by Rahar on December 20, 2019 9:25PMNeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Bullseyebudx✭✭✭The only thing I don't completely agree with that you mentioned, specific numbers not included, is the healing you'd add to it to make it a good option. I'm not sure is adding healing would be a good idea, because then you've changed the skill from having one purpose and one clearly defined reason to push the button to multiple vague reasons, and then you get the warden arctic wind problem where it doesn't quite work well in either of the places it should be pressed. It's bad skill design.
Throwing around ideas here. Maybe take the damage and the range down a notch, bump up the cost, but make it do more damage under certain conditions? Whether that's a by a debuff (maybe even a vampire specific one?) or a factor multiplied per currently rolling DoT? Maybe if you get a killing blow with it or you hit an enemy under a certain percentage, it gives you a damage buff like minor berserk? Something to make it less brainless to use.
Healing also has some negative synergies with undeath but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
I like your idea about moving this ability towards a clearer identity, I think it's supposed to be an execute but its should have sum vampire flavor, Berserk on death or with damage while in execute range seems perfect to be honest, a little bit of blood lust rage to sure up kills.
Probably should be something like -dealing damage with this ability while your target is in execute range grants you Minor Berserk for 3 seconds, if an opponent damaged by this ability dies within 2 seconds you gain Major Berserk for 5 seconds.
I'm looking at Reaper's Mark btw.0 -
Rahar✭✭✭✭Bullseyebudx wrote: »The only thing I don't completely agree with that you mentioned, specific numbers not included, is the healing you'd add to it to make it a good option. I'm not sure is adding healing would be a good idea, because then you've changed the skill from having one purpose and one clearly defined reason to push the button to multiple vague reasons, and then you get the warden arctic wind problem where it doesn't quite work well in either of the places it should be pressed. It's bad skill design.
Throwing around ideas here. Maybe take the damage and the range down a notch, bump up the cost, but make it do more damage under certain conditions? Whether that's a by a debuff (maybe even a vampire specific one?) or a factor multiplied per currently rolling DoT? Maybe if you get a killing blow with it or you hit an enemy under a certain percentage, it gives you a damage buff like minor berserk? Something to make it less brainless to use.
Healing also has some negative synergies with undeath but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
I like your idea about moving this ability towards a clearer identity, I think it's supposed to be an execute but its should have sum vampire flavor, Berserk on death or with damage while in execute range seems perfect to be honest, a little bit of blood lust rage to sure up kills.
Probably should be something like -dealing damage with this ability while your target is in execute range grants you Minor Berserk for 3 seconds, if an opponent damaged by this ability dies within 2 seconds you gain Major Berserk for 5 seconds.
I'm looking at Reaper's Mark btw.
Yeah, you get the gist of what I'm trying to go for. I think we should stay away from giving major and minor berserk on one skill though, let alone one that does damage. Minor berserk or a damage boost per DoT on the target would fufill a spammable for DoT playstyles and really play up that draining feeling.NeRf MaGsOrC0 -
Bullseyebudx✭✭✭Bullseyebudx wrote: »
Healing also has some negative synergies with undeath but that's a whole other kettle of fish.
I like your idea about moving this ability towards a clearer identity, I think it's supposed to be an execute but its should have sum vampire flavor, Berserk on death or with damage while in execute range seems perfect to be honest, a little bit of blood lust rage to sure up kills.
Probably should be something like -dealing damage with this ability while your target is in execute range grants you Minor Berserk for 3 seconds, if an opponent damaged by this ability dies within 2 seconds you gain Major Berserk for 5 seconds.
I'm looking at Reaper's Mark btw.
Yeah, you get the gist of what I'm trying to go for. I think we should stay away from giving major and minor berserk on one skill though, let alone one that does damage. Minor berserk or a damage boost per DoT on the target would fufill a spammable for DoT playstyles and really play up that draining feeling.
Idk if minor would be enough but major during execute could be too much, but if it’s after death it might not be that impactful; you'd need another target.
You honestly could probably put the major berserk behind the drain completing, actually force people to interrupt it, but who knows but yah both on one ability could be a little too ambitious 😝0 -
Karmanorway✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. But i never call for nerfs, except for this one. There have to be a first time right? And i choose this one^
Imagine, accelerating drain - zaan procs (u are below 50% hp now) then the almighty jesusbeam Juuust when u break free and roll dodge into death....1 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.
Thank you.
Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him
Plus they’re VAMPIRES! After a couple a whips, you’re chasing a mist ball!
Some fool put drain on me I’m like “YUS! I’m running Succession lol! Hold still!”
I hit em with embers! Ain’t nothing like setting a vampire on fire. They ain’t ALL Dumner...tho they all ARE just dummies lol.Edited by JumpmanLane on December 23, 2019 12:12AM0 -
MizoreReyes✭✭✭JumpmanLane wrote: »I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.
Thank you.
Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him
Plus they’re VAMPIRES! After a couple a whips, you’re chasing a mist ball!
Some fool put drain on me I’m like “YUS! I’m running Succession lol! Hold still!”
I hit em with embers! Ain’t nothing like setting a vampire on fire. They ain’t ALL Dumner...tho they all ARE just dummies lol.
I'm running gold Succession gear (Inferno Staff & Accessories) and sometimes I would use Silks of the Sun/Burning Spell Weave gear +10% fire damage using Engulfing Flames to fight against Stage 4 Vampires and they're taking the damage well. Hopefully its not their vampire passive Undeath saving them from my flames and if we ever get a Vampire Skyrim themed expansion, I hope they don't buff them extremely. I've always thought Vampires were too good to begin with compared to Werewolf after it got nerfed hardcore. (R.I.P. My White Wolf)
Vampire drain even when I'm using heavy armour or defensive buffs, it is dealing the most damage in my death recaps (NON-CP). Alongside the damage it would sometimes be an invisible channel and I would see two vampire drains in my death recap by the same person. For a skill that acts like a hard cc, it limitations are small. From animation canceling to clunky break frees and so on. They did buff this skill before and it wasn't affected by the DoT changes. People defend this skill because of the continuous calls for nerfs, and they refuse to accept such a silly skill that hasn't been used by many to actually be strong.
Even though Wardens and Necromancers need this for a reliable stun/damage, it is unhealthy for PVP because everyone has access to this broken abomination like during the DoT era where everyone had access to Soul Trap and Entropy. What they should do for these two classes is actually give them a proper class stun. Making the choice for the betterment of PVP as a whole is all I care about. My alternative main character is a Magicka Necromancer and I know fully well that I could do more if I actually used Vampire Drain to complete my ideal combo in PVP.
My propositions on the solutions are: (They are mostly nerfs and I hate to say it but there aren't many options unless ZoS follows a route where they actually buff other things)
1. Fix the clunky break free
2. Decrease the range to fit around Fossilize CC range
3. Decrease the damage to be more utility focused because somehow players are able to spam this thing and deal crazy amounts of damage (in CP the damage is meh because CP is dumb broken too )
My least favourite option:
4. Increase the fire damage taken for Vampires to discourage them
(This would affect the PVE scene and it would be too drastic of a change)2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is a channeled DoT guys. It has to do damage equal or compareable to a spammable or else people will simply never let it run its damage component.
My necro (with 15% class dot dmg + 10% from thaurma tool) tip unbuffed is like 6k at 0.7s.
DPS is then ~ 7800
12 meter range
channeled
fears for 3s
In comparison my Force pulse hits for 11k
My richochte skull 9k
My elemental weapon 9k + LA dmg (13k?)
The damage is not OP at all. It is considering things balanced.
Basically only wardens and necros use it since they lack a class CC worth its name.
Give them a class CC to pick over vamp drain and the problem is solved, without nerfing or ZOS trying to solve the server -> client de synchs in Cyro (never gonna happen game is basically 1 threaded and de synchs will happen with netcode in such an environment/engine).
Let me correct you there. The drain hits 5x in a duration of 3 seconds, just check your combat reports or in most cases your death recap. This means that the damage of the drain with a 6k tooltip = 5 x 6k = 30k. This means 30k damage over 3 seconds = 10k DPS. Taking into account that this skills also stuns you on the initial hit and is buggy to break free we can conclude that it is overperforming. But hey during the DoT meta dot's weren't overperforming aswell right.
As others already mentioned it hits 4 times in its channel. But sure we can count it as total dmg diveded by time, wich makes it more difficult to put in relation but sure.
6k times 4, is 24000 dmg raw dmg before resists and mitigation / dmg cuts from battlespirit etc.
Force pulse, 11k tool tip, 0.9s GCD -> 11k -> 3.3333 spells in 3 seconds. Lets be fair and only count 33% of that last hit.
11k +11k +11k +33% of 11k = 33k + 3666 (33% of 11k) = 36666 unmitigated damage.
24k vs 36,6k.
Thats a 34.54% dmg difference from the cookie cutter spam attack (with my necros stats behind it). To me it seems balanced. But I am as I said baised since I play necro.
Best option would be to fix the break free so it doesnt hold ppl in CC when it shouldnt.
But if that isn't possible a fair solution isnt to just reduce the damage so its useless from a dmg pov. Remember magicka necro and warden do not have any other good CC.
Some other poster mentioned he uses toppling charge on his stamtemplar..I mean that comparison is almost insulting. One cannot compare the *** totem to toppling charge and keep a straight face
Lot of very incorrect and misguiding informations here. Firstly accelerating drain deals 5 ticks of damage during 3 seconds chanell duration because 1st tick happens instantly not after 0,7 sec from clicking it. Argument that "others have said it's 4 times" is not reliable argument. Go and check for Yourself how many ticks You'll get. Secondly it have higher damage then any other spammable withing 0,9 sec global cooldown interval. Your math @Sneakers is kinda rigged. If Your force pulse is reaching 11k tooltip and You're on necro then Your tooltip for accelerating drain will be more likely around 7k. For example on my magnecro with 66 points into master at arms and 37 points into thaumaturge when my force pulse is reaching 10k tooltip my accelerating drain is already at 6,7k.
Base scaling for each force pulse component is $1 = 0.0309701 Magicka + 0.324904 SD scaling for accelerating drain ticks is $1 = 0.0594602 Magicka + 0.623242 SD. Within 1 global cooldown interval we can get 3 ticks of force pulse and 2 ticks of elemental drain so we'll get ~0,09 Magicka + 0,97 SD for force pulse and ~0,12 Magicka + 1,24 SD for accelerating drain. That puts accelerating drain to be ~30% stronger ability to use as spammable then force pulse if we decide to use both as spammables and refresh every 0,9 sec. By block cancelling accelerating drain after 0,7 sec when 2nd tick is doing damage You're getting more damage out of it then any other spammable can give and You can still light attack weave inbetween although most of the people is choosing more simple approach and just keeps draining enemy because it's also highly effective. Your example of 3,3 force pulse casts vs 1 accelerating drain cast is also rigged. Realistically speaking it will be more likely 3 casts and accelerating drain is basically doing similar or even more damage in that situation. Applying my tooltips and even assuming well get that 3,3 damage of force pulse it would still be 3,3*10k=33k vs 6,7k*5=33,5k. The difference is that to perform those 3 casts (realistically 3,3 damage of spammable is 4 casts but whatever)of force pulse You would've spend ~6k magicka while accelerating drain costs You less then 2k and deals the same damage. Enemies could also roll dodge force pulse , something they cannot do against accelerating drain.
We need to also remember about other features of accelerating drain. It have undodgable stun , some slight healing and applies 20 second minor expedition buff which is not easy to get somewhere else. When ZoS removed stuns from, abilitities like dizzying swing or crystal fragments they were saying they dont want in game abilities that deals high damage while also stunning and frankly accelerating drain is ability like that.4 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imo, this skill should at the very least get a hefty cost increase. Its arguably too cheap for what it can potentially do. I just did some quick tests in shadowfen with accelerating drain on my magplar no CP PvP build wearing innate axiom (which doesn't boost this skill!) and bright troath. For me the skill does:
- 4.9k tooltip damage 5 times per cast = 24.5k tooltip (self buffed, without enchant proc tho). With crits I was able to realiably kill 31k health mobs with just one cast of this skill and nothing else.
- It heals for 16% of your max health 4 times per cast (dunno why its not 5 here) = 64% of my max health (I think the base skill without healing received modifiers would be 15/60%).
- It stuns through dodge roll at 12 meters range (fossilize for example only has 7 meters range). This applies on the first tick, so you can easily block cancel the skill and still get some damage, healing and the stun.
- It gives minor expedition for 20 seconds when the cast ends (full 3 seconds duration).
And all that for just 1679 magicka (in my case, vamp stage 4 and 5 pieces of light armor on altmer). Like wtf? For comparison, a single cast of crushing shock with the same stats would deal 2.4k * 3 = 7.2k damage for 2147 magicka. Therefore, 3 crushing shocks would deal 21.6k damage at a cost of 6441 magicka. Thats less damage than one cast of accelerating drain at almost 4 times the cost of magicka (yes, light attacks would increase the damage of crushing shock weaving significantly over accelerating drain, but the damage per cost argument still stands).
For what it does this skill should very well cost 4k+ magicka at stage 4 vampire, if not even more. A cost increase would also discourage players to just mindlessly spam this skill (though it would still be incredible cost efficient if you use it for the whole 3 seconds duration).
Sorry to say it but, all your calculactions are wrong.
It hits 4 (FOUR) times in its 3s channel. Just look at combat logs.
Also its damage is reasonable. And significantly lower then elemental weapon spam.
I personally only let it run on squishy ppl. If its a tankier target I block colossus + vamp drain block cancel into elemental weapon, way more dps.
Sorry to say but Your calculations are wrong because You dont fully know how combat log works @Sneakers . If You start fight with accelerating drain and that is only time You're using it then combat log will register only 4 ticks because 1st tick happens in "minus time" when log is not registering stuff yet. It's very common mistake for people who make tests and casts tested ability only once per test without knowledge of how combat log works. Go and try to hit target with something else and then hit it with accelerating drain and then You'll see that 5 ticks is happening. Here You have an example of what I am talking about
drain casted once instantly - 4 ticks beause 1st was not registered
drain casted after light attacks - 5 ticks because light attacks started the combat and log counting so all ticks of drain count
drain casted 2 times - 9 ticks because on 1st cast 1st tick was not counted but on 2nd cast it was counted
Edited by Juhasow on December 23, 2019 1:09PM6 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While, as everyone knows by now, i am generally against nerfs since those most often not nerf but just make skills totally useless instead.. in this case i could support the idea of it having 7m range as some suggested. But people would not settle for that for long.. so as addition:
Maybe something like this:
Invigorating Drain: Stun, Ultimate gain as it is now, 3 x heal ticks. Damage removed! "Pve tank morph"
Accelerating Drain: 4-5x dmg/heal ticks, Minor Expedition. Stun removed from this morph!
So would have to choose between the Stun version and the decent damage versions. I would imagine ZOS is already planning to do something like this to the skill at next Chapter.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭If you wanna make the stun deal no damage and even reduce the range, you better make it unblockable, too.1 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.
Why would you? Fear is better. Or Turn Undead. You could use Drain, but the vampire drawbacks are quite severe and not worth it if you have better alternatives.0 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.
Why would you? Fear is better. Or Turn Undead. You could use Drain, but the vampire drawbacks are quite severe and not worth it if you have better alternatives.
Magicka characters shouldnt be the only characters that can be vampires effectively. I hope they make 1 morph a stamina morph.
I have this feeling that the Skyrim chapter or the Q1 2020 dungeon DLC will include a vampire skill line remake.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.
Why would you? Fear is better. Or Turn Undead. You could use Drain, but the vampire drawbacks are quite severe and not worth it if you have better alternatives.
Magicka characters shouldnt be the only characters that can be vampires effectively. I hope they make 1 morph a stamina morph.
I have this feeling that the Skyrim chapter or the Q1 2020 dungeon DLC will include a vampire skill line remake.
Then shouldn't we have magicka werewolves? It's okay for vamp abilities to cost magicka. You could still go vamp on a stam character for the passives, but the drawbacks are too heavy. But the option is there.3 -
WoppaBoem✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.
Why would you? Fear is better. Or Turn Undead. You could use Drain, but the vampire drawbacks are quite severe and not worth it if you have better alternatives.
Magicka characters shouldnt be the only characters that can be vampires effectively. I hope they make 1 morph a stamina morph.
I have this feeling that the Skyrim chapter or the Q1 2020 dungeon DLC will include a vampire skill line remake.
The costs is so low you can does not matter you need to pay magica. On my stamplar I use toppeling charge its awesome.Xbox EU & NA - PVP Only2 -
LittlePinkDot✭✭✭✭✭LittlePinkDot wrote: »LittlePinkDot wrote: »Can vamp drain be used as a CC for a stamblade?
I'm against any cost increase which would make the skill useless for stamina characters.
Why would you? Fear is better. Or Turn Undead. You could use Drain, but the vampire drawbacks are quite severe and not worth it if you have better alternatives.
Magicka characters shouldnt be the only characters that can be vampires effectively. I hope they make 1 morph a stamina morph.
I have this feeling that the Skyrim chapter or the Q1 2020 dungeon DLC will include a vampire skill line remake.
Then shouldn't we have magicka werewolves? It's okay for vamp abilities to cost magicka. You could still go vamp on a stam character for the passives, but the drawbacks are too heavy. But the option is there.
I don't see why the drawbacks would be too heavy for Stam but not Magicka. My Dunmer NB is a vampire. She was a PVE mageblade, but has been sitting there naked and useless since the racial passive change and the mageblade nerfs. I'm switching her to heavy armour pvp stamblade.1