WoppaBoem wrote: »

I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.

Thank you.

Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him

Xvorg wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.

Thank you.

Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him

You can block cancel drain easily for just the stun and some damage. Or in reaction to someone casting something at you.

My guess is OP is complaining about BGs and no-CP, where the damage is a little bit high. Otherwise it's honestly not a big deal.

Rahar wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.

Thank you.

Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him

You can block cancel drain easily for just the stun and some damage. Or in reaction to someone casting something at you.

My guess is OP is complaining about BGs and no-CP, where the damage is a little bit high. Otherwise it's honestly not a big deal.

The damage isnt high in No cp apart from proc sets dealing a larger % of your health. The mitigation is simply lower because CP offers an insane amount of mitigation with all the extra points you have access to. Your damage is obviously much higher in CP, where you have similar modifiers boosting your offensive capabilities.

The vamp drain is a bit overpowered. It got a huge buff with the increase in dot damage two patches ago, then was not brought down alongside the rest of the dots in the following patch. It seems every time I've been outnumbered lately, someone has dedicated themselves solely to spamming this ability on me.

The ability is meant as a stun, it shouldn't also be a strong DOT. Granted there is adequate counterplay to the ability, but things like CC immunity and simply being outnumbered diminish this counterplay rapidly.

The ability is also buggy when used on a rolling target as others have said, often causing the break free to take several tries before firing.

Bullseyebudx wrote: »

The stun is very good and for several reasons but keep in mind how significant the draw backs are just on the ability itself. It’s a channel ability #1 not a dot, it’s got a range of 13 meters, and it’s interruptible. What makes it OP are the 0.7 second ticks, spamming it on anyone with a large damage/effect que (people in Cyrodiil or someone getting zerged down) amplifies how effective a stun is.

Please also keep in mind though being able to use this ability comes with several major draw backs -major vulnerability to fire damage with 100% up time, 50% lower health recovery 100% up time, and you’re vulnerable to off effects that deal increased damage directly to vampires. You do eventually get damage reduction but only if you go below 50% health.

The damage is the problem, that its buggy sucks the most actually but I have no hopes that will be fixed when asking ZOS. But the damage is to high. I have many recaps now it does around 70% all damage in the recap and stuns. I think it was a clear decision of ZOS to disconnect all heavy damage and stuns. For this skill its not the case. The damage needs to be brought down.

NBrookus wrote: »

I think the range is a little OP for the overall damage and utility, but what do you expect magwardens to use? Their options are limited.

I very much got that and I am oke with all the utility it offers, they can have a nice thing if its up to me. But that damage is overkill. I know now from this the stun I got from rolling was the issue it took ages to break free and during that time my health was just drained so much that it killed me. This happened in Cyro CP and Bg's No CP.

Xvorg wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.

Thank you.

Vampire drain is the easiest skill to counter, just break free and the vamp will stay in the animation. Then you can just stun him

uhh.. block cancel into another stun, repeat until target has no stamina left. Use stamina draining poison to speed up the process.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

WoppaBoem wrote: »

I thought high damage stun where out of the game. Now every magwarden I encounter around 70% of all damage in my recap is from the vampire drain stun and the cherry on the cake that stun sometime just does not break. Really address the damage of this skill and how is interacts with break free. This skill is auto win in small scale situation and it should not be.

Thank you.

The 'break free' quirkyness should be fixed but the damage should stay. It's a channeled ability; the vampire is trading the ability to execute or unleash an ultimate on an incapacitated foe, for a decent DOT basically.

Sneakers wrote: »

It is a channeled DoT guys. It has to do damage equal or compareable to a spammable or else people will simply never let it run its damage component.

My necro (with 15% class dot dmg + 10% from thaurma tool) tip unbuffed is like 6k at 0.7s.

DPS is then ~ 7800
12 meter range
channeled
fears for 3s

In comparison my Force pulse hits for 11k
My richochte skull 9k
My elemental weapon 9k + LA dmg (13k?)

The damage is not OP at all. It is considering things balanced.

Basically only wardens and necros use it since they lack a class CC worth its name.
Give them a class CC to pick over vamp drain and the problem is solved, without nerfing or ZOS trying to solve the server -> client de synchs in Cyro (never gonna happen game is basically 1 threaded and de synchs will happen with netcode in such an environment/engine).

Sorry I don't care so much about all those things. It was really happens not what is written in some numbers. 70% of the damage in recap coming from that skill that is so buggy I cannot break free. Currently I find the game in terms of balance in a great place. It seems all has it place on the moment. until you come across that drain stun, its broken, its the same feeling when you where fight against spin to win with 9m radius and execute. You feel it is not right, it is out of line with the rest. And it sucks. Love this game and don't want to see taken over my server. Recent days I come across more and more using it.

The damage needs to go.

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Every patch, there’s one mechanic, or combo, that is pretty lethal in BGs.

Remember ice staff?

Anyway, this patch, it’s Vamp Drain. To be fair tho, if you died to it, you were probably going to die anyway.

This.

This skill is in that tiny sliver of balance where it can be very effective or very detrimental to the caster situationally, some people slot it but there are lots of other good options for that slot, and occasionally it shows up on your death recap. All skills should be like that.

Papachico wrote: »

Sneakers wrote: »

It is a channeled DoT guys. It has to do damage equal or compareable to a spammable or else people will simply never let it run its damage component.

My necro (with 15% class dot dmg + 10% from thaurma tool) tip unbuffed is like 6k at 0.7s.

DPS is then ~ 7800
12 meter range
channeled
fears for 3s

In comparison my Force pulse hits for 11k
My richochte skull 9k
My elemental weapon 9k + LA dmg (13k?)

The damage is not OP at all. It is considering things balanced.

Basically only wardens and necros use it since they lack a class CC worth its name.
Give them a class CC to pick over vamp drain and the problem is solved, without nerfing or ZOS trying to solve the server -> client de synchs in Cyro (never gonna happen game is basically 1 threaded and de synchs will happen with netcode in such an environment/engine).

Let me correct you there. The drain hits 5x in a duration of 3 seconds, just check your combat reports or in most cases your death recap. This means that the damage of the drain with a 6k tooltip = 5 x 6k = 30k. This means 30k damage over 3 seconds = 10k DPS. Taking into account that this skills also stuns you on the initial hit and is buggy to break free we can conclude that it is overperforming. But hey during the DoT meta dot's weren't overperforming aswell right.

As others already mentioned it hits 4 times in its channel. But sure we can count it as total dmg diveded by time, wich makes it more difficult to put in relation but sure.

6k times 4, is 24000 dmg raw dmg before resists and mitigation / dmg cuts from battlespirit etc.

Force pulse, 11k tool tip, 0.9s GCD -> 11k -> 3.3333 spells in 3 seconds. Lets be fair and only count 33% of that last hit.

11k +11k +11k +33% of 11k = 33k + 3666 (33% of 11k) = 36666 unmitigated damage.

24k vs 36,6k.

Thats a 34.54% dmg difference from the cookie cutter spam attack (with my necros stats behind it). To me it seems balanced. But I am as I said baised since I play necro.

Best option would be to fix the break free so it doesnt hold ppl in CC when it shouldnt.
But if that isn't possible a fair solution isnt to just reduce the damage so its useless from a dmg pov. Remember magicka necro and warden do not have any other good CC.

Some other poster mentioned he uses toppling charge on his stamtemplar..I mean that comparison is almost insulting. One cannot compare the *** totem to toppling charge and keep a straight face

Sneakers wrote: »

Papachico wrote: »

Sneakers wrote: »

It is a channeled DoT guys. It has to do damage equal or compareable to a spammable or else people will simply never let it run its damage component.

My necro (with 15% class dot dmg + 10% from thaurma tool) tip unbuffed is like 6k at 0.7s.

DPS is then ~ 7800
12 meter range
channeled
fears for 3s

In comparison my Force pulse hits for 11k
My richochte skull 9k
My elemental weapon 9k + LA dmg (13k?)

The damage is not OP at all. It is considering things balanced.

Basically only wardens and necros use it since they lack a class CC worth its name.
Give them a class CC to pick over vamp drain and the problem is solved, without nerfing or ZOS trying to solve the server -> client de synchs in Cyro (never gonna happen game is basically 1 threaded and de synchs will happen with netcode in such an environment/engine).

Let me correct you there. The drain hits 5x in a duration of 3 seconds, just check your combat reports or in most cases your death recap. This means that the damage of the drain with a 6k tooltip = 5 x 6k = 30k. This means 30k damage over 3 seconds = 10k DPS. Taking into account that this skills also stuns you on the initial hit and is buggy to break free we can conclude that it is overperforming. But hey during the DoT meta dot's weren't overperforming aswell right.

As others already mentioned it hits 4 times in its channel. But sure we can count it as total dmg diveded by time, wich makes it more difficult to put in relation but sure.

6k times 4, is 24000 dmg raw dmg before resists and mitigation / dmg cuts from battlespirit etc.

Force pulse, 11k tool tip, 0.9s GCD -> 11k -> 3.3333 spells in 3 seconds. Lets be fair and only count 33% of that last hit.

11k +11k +11k +33% of 11k = 33k + 3666 (33% of 11k) = 36666 unmitigated damage.

24k vs 36,6k.

Thats a 34.54% dmg difference from the cookie cutter spam attack (with my necros stats behind it). To me it seems balanced. But I am as I said baised since I play necro.

Best option would be to fix the break free so it doesnt hold ppl in CC when it shouldnt.
But if that isn't possible a fair solution isnt to just reduce the damage so its useless from a dmg pov. Remember magicka necro and warden do not have any other good CC.

Some other poster mentioned he uses toppling charge on his stamtemplar..I mean that comparison is almost insulting. One cannot compare the *** totem to toppling charge and keep a straight face

What you guys all about force pulse lol (agreed talking point by abusers of skill) that only stuns when someone is casting. There not even in the same category pulse is a spammable damage attack. So oke it make sense you are compering these two and it makes my point, this Stun does to much damage, to cheap, to much utility.

Because lets compare it with force pulse lol, it does damage and can stun someone if you interrupt, drain heals, stun (guaranteed if on cooldown), cheap, damages, gives minor expedition if these skills where really in the same category and let for the sake of argument accept that, drain needs a huge costs increase it now is less expensive than pulse it needs to at least twice the costs of current pulse because it provide so much utility.

They butchered the costs of fossilze, compare fossilze utility, damage with drain. Every angle shows this skill it out of order.