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The Magblade Problem
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Healthy offering is one of if not the strongest burst heal in the game currently for reasons outside of the tooltip. Anyone saying otherwise isnt worth listening to.
For sure, that’s why there’s tons of magblade healers in pvp. It all makes sense!
Dont be daft, a single burst heal does not make a healer.
The issue remains that it's the only burst heal in the game that doesn't heal the caster, and as such in practical use on a non-healer build it's a terrible skill.
It was workable before the cast time on ults. Soul Siphon was like a reset to your health bar for when the stacks got too high.
A 1 second cast time on a healing ultimate broke the class. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting the Ult off in pvp without it getting interrupted.
Before anyone pipes up... if I do it all the time... I’m talking against good opponents. The way to tell if you’re fighting good opponents? If you’re half health and don’t get hit with a bunch of DK leaps and other ultimates you’re fighting potatoes.
Well said!1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Healthy offering is one of if not the strongest burst heal in the game currently for reasons outside of the tooltip. Anyone saying otherwise isnt worth listening to.
For sure, that’s why there’s tons of magblade healers in pvp. It all makes sense!
Dont be daft, a single burst heal does not make a healer.
The issue remains that it's the only burst heal in the game that doesn't heal the caster, and as such in practical use on a non-healer build it's a terrible skill.
It was workable before the cast time on ults. Soul Siphon was like a reset to your health bar for when the stacks got too high.
A 1 second cast time on a healing ultimate broke the class. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting the Ult off in pvp without it getting interrupted.
Before anyone pipes up... if I do it all the time... I’m talking against good opponents. The way to tell if you’re fighting good opponents? If you’re half health and don’t get hit with a bunch of DK leaps and other ultimates you’re fighting potatoes.
Well said!
There has to be some magblade buff in the works. I wouldn’t sweat it.
I just changed factions and made another magblade. Even in lowby BGs they’re undertuned. Someone would have to be completely clueless to not see they’re underpowered at this point.
Just play other classes until the devs get around to buffing it again. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you’ve stuck with magblade or can do okay, you’ll dominate with another class. From playing a magblade you’ll be used to struggling and rip players you’ve struggled with.Edited by Iskiab on December 13, 2019 12:47AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭when you are talking about the cast times being removed from ultimates i disagree, why?
because your asking to be able to instantly kill people without allowing other people the time to be able to react and even defend themselves. just instant death in pvp, no ability to survive.
and to quote the developers:
"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."
is really awesome that they cared enough to add cast times on certain ultimates so we dont instantly die now when we didnt even know we were even in a fight, just BAM Dead, never even had the ability to defend against the attack nor even knew we were in a fight.
i know there is a version of the soul siphen that is only healing, but im referring to the other morph:
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for any damage caused. Damage listed is base damage of a CP 160 with zero CP spent, zero Attribute Points used and zero Skills taken at Rank IV.
was that morph removed?
it still shows this as a damage morph on the wiki unless it was removed and its not showing the updated version.
and that damage kills people instantly and even groups of people if done properly.
it simply too much damage output and its instant.
i hope they never remove the cast times and allow it to be the way it used to be.
Edited by Gilvoth on December 13, 2019 1:00AM0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@Iskiab You know whats funny, people who don't or barely play magblade telling you the class is fine and actually one of the strongest, if ... (wait wait! here it comes) "YoU bUiLd It RiGhT".brandonv516 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Healthy offering is one of if not the strongest burst heal in the game currently for reasons outside of the tooltip. Anyone saying otherwise isnt worth listening to.
For sure, that’s why there’s tons of magblade healers in pvp. It all makes sense!
Dont be daft, a single burst heal does not make a healer.
The issue remains that it's the only burst heal in the game that doesn't heal the caster, and as such in practical use on a non-healer build it's a terrible skill.
It was workable before the cast time on ults. Soul Siphon was like a reset to your health bar for when the stacks got too high.
A 1 second cast time on a healing ultimate broke the class. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting the Ult off in pvp without it getting interrupted.
Before anyone pipes up... if I do it all the time... I’m talking against good opponents. The way to tell if you’re fighting good opponents? If you’re half health and don’t get hit with a bunch of DK leaps and other ultimates you’re fighting potatoes.
Well said!
There has to be some magblade buff in the works. I wouldn’t sweat it.
I just changed factions and made another magblade. Even in lowby BGs they’re undertuned. Someone would have to be completely clueless to not see they’re underpowered at this point.
Just play other classes until the devs get around to buffing it again. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you’ve stuck with magblade or can do okay, you’ll dominate with another class. From playing a magblade you’ll be used to struggling and rip players you’ve struggled with.
Im so tired of that crap lol.0 -
KCC11✭when you are talking about the cast times being removed from ultimates i disagree, why?
because your asking to be able to instantly kill people without allowing other people the time to be able to react and even defend themselves. just instant death in pvp, no ability to survive.
and to quote the developers:
"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."
is really awesome that they cared enough to add cast times on certain ultimates so we dont instantly die now when we didnt even know we were even in a fight, just BAM Dead, never even had the ability to defend against the attack nor even knew we were in a fight.
i know there is a version of the soul siphen that is only healing, but im referring to the other morph:
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for any damage caused. Damage listed is base damage of a CP 160 with zero CP spent, zero Attribute Points used and zero Skills taken at Rank IV.
was that morph removed?
it still shows this as a damage morph on the wiki unless it was removed and its not showing the updated version.
and that damage kills people instantly and even groups of people if done properly.
it simply too much damage output and its instant.
i hope they never remove the cast times and allow it to be the way it used to be.
Once again I would agree with you..if ALL ULTIMATES received a cast time such as Leap, or Crescent Sweep these are not only Ultimates that hit hard but they can't be dodged either so there's already limited counter play to them as it is (you can only block). If you're dying to a naked Incap..you are built incorrectly this comes from a 5 Light Magblade and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've been hit with a 10k Incap, or DboS (If you're not a Vamp). You're talking about reacting and I'm saying that the experience/skill in this game (what's left of it) should help you PREDICT when your enemy is about to burst. You should be thinking ahead and seeing what they're doing. Soul Tether doesn't even hit that hard it was mainly used in a group to combo with other Ultimates but when solo most magblades almost never slotted it over Soul Harvest. Also this shows how out of touch the Devs can be some times..people are so damn tanky that the only way to kill them is by having 2-4 abilities hit in quick succession..like who is out here dying to LA+Skill spam? Templars hit you with multiple attacks with Gap close stun>Jabs>Sweep>PoTL goes off..Sorcs Curse>Frag>Execute..DKs Whip>Fossilize>Leap>Whip..Wardens Dizzy>Med/HA>DBoS>Bugs>Execute..so what exactly are you talking about this is a common occurrence across all classes. People in this game have to get over the fact that the Dmg class ie Nightblades are going to be able to do Dmg coincidentally enough my easiest fights are against Nightblades since they're defenses are so low. Everything in your post gives off that you're just lacking in awareness in PvP and you're happy that the game is easier for you, but if we are to assume your premise then I'll say it again let's add cast times to ALL ULTIMATES so that it's a truly even playing field and we can all enjoy this "skillful gameplay" together.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭when you are talking about the cast times being removed from ultimates i disagree, why?
because your asking to be able to instantly kill people without allowing other people the time to be able to react and even defend themselves. just instant death in pvp, no ability to survive.
and to quote the developers:
"We added cast times so there is counter play; we felt that having 3-4 abilities hitting you at once, including an Ultimate, is just too much."
is really awesome that they cared enough to add cast times on certain ultimates so we dont instantly die now when we didnt even know we were even in a fight, just BAM Dead, never even had the ability to defend against the attack nor even knew we were in a fight.
i know there is a version of the soul siphen that is only healing, but im referring to the other morph:
An ally can target a nearby enemy and activate the Soul Leech synergy dealing 1104 Magic Damage to them and healing for any damage caused. Damage listed is base damage of a CP 160 with zero CP spent, zero Attribute Points used and zero Skills taken at Rank IV.
was that morph removed?
it still shows this as a damage morph on the wiki unless it was removed and its not showing the updated version.
and that damage kills people instantly and even groups of people if done properly.
it simply too much damage output and its instant.
i hope they never remove the cast times and allow it to be the way it used to be.
Once again I would agree with you..if ALL ULTIMATES received a cast time such as Leap, or Crescent Sweep these are not only Ultimates that hit hard but they can't be dodged either so there's already limited counter play to them as it is (you can only block). If you're dying to a naked Incap..you are built incorrectly this comes from a 5 Light Magblade and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've been hit with a 10k Incap, or DboS (If you're not a Vamp). You're talking about reacting and I'm saying that the experience/skill in this game (what's left of it) should help you PREDICT when your enemy is about to burst. You should be thinking ahead and seeing what they're doing. Soul Tether doesn't even hit that hard it was mainly used in a group to combo with other Ultimates but when solo most magblades almost never slotted it over Soul Harvest. Also this shows how out of touch the Devs can be some times..people are so damn tanky that the only way to kill them is by having 2-4 abilities hit in quick succession..like who is out here dying to LA+Skill spam? Templars hit you with multiple attacks with Gap close stun>Jabs>Sweep>PoTL goes off..Sorcs Curse>Frag>Execute..DKs Whip>Fossilize>Leap>Whip..Wardens Dizzy>Med/HA>DBoS>Bugs>Execute..so what exactly are you talking about this is a common occurrence across all classes. People in this game have to get over the fact that the Dmg class ie Nightblades are going to be able to do Dmg coincidentally enough my easiest fights are against Nightblades since they're defenses are so low. Everything in your post gives off that you're just lacking in awareness in PvP and you're happy that the game is easier for you, but if we are to assume your premise then I'll say it again let's add cast times to ALL ULTIMATES so that it's a truly even playing field and we can all enjoy this "skillful gameplay" together.
Funilly enough the only class I can kill easily by spamming one ability are NBs. Spam sweeps: you’ll be healing for more then the NB can self heal and doing more damage then the NB can do. It’s the only class with such poor self healing that you can take one out with one button.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭This is flat out wrong. Unless they changed it recently, which I doubt, healthy Offering will not proc any damage taken sets.
Healthy Offering makes it much easier to proc Nightflame more frequently. I know that's not what is being discussed, but it is another advantage to Healthy Offering. Nightflame on or near on CD is extremely powerful in any content.
To the topic, didn't read the whole thread admittedly, but do know that Bolstering Darkness is one of the more powerful ults in the game in PvE due to the loooong duration, and if it cost less than 200 (146 IIRC with Dragonguard and Potentates, w Bloodspawn and vamp drain/minor heroism that's -permanent- major protection for the whole team) it would be OP. If in an organized pvp team very powerful also. If they reduced the cost, they would surely reduce the duration as well, prefer the duration.
IMO Grim Focus needs a complete rework, would love to hear from people who think it's "fun" to use in pve or pvp, not effective or powerful, fun. IMO it's just not fun to need to babysit a skill to that degree. A near mandatory class skill should not be that cumbersome. If they reworked just that skill, I'd have no problem with the class.
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KCC11✭This is flat out wrong. Unless they changed it recently, which I doubt, healthy Offering will not proc any damage taken sets.
Healthy Offering makes it much easier to proc Nightflame more frequently. I know that's not what is being discussed, but it is another advantage to Healthy Offering. Nightflame on or near on CD is extremely powerful in any content.
To the topic, didn't read the whole thread admittedly, but do know that Bolstering Darkness is one of the more powerful ults in the game in PvE due to the loooong duration, and if it cost less than 200 (146 IIRC with Dragonguard and Potentates, w Bloodspawn and vamp drain/minor heroism that's -permanent- major protection for the whole team) it would be OP. If in an organized pvp team very powerful also. If they reduced the cost, they would surely reduce the duration as well, prefer the duration.
IMO Grim Focus needs a complete rework, would love to hear from people who think it's "fun" to use in pve or pvp, not effective or powerful, fun. IMO it's just not fun to need to babysit a skill to that degree. A near mandatory class skill should not be that cumbersome. If they reworked just that skill, I'd have no problem with the class.
I am coming from a PvP perspective as I don't PvE and have no interest in doing so. Bolstering just costs too much for a Nightblade to consider slotting the skill as the class just doesn't do well being defensive outside of using cloak. Now you can make anything work with coordination in an organized group but I'm more speaking to the general class. Now your feelings about grim focus is basically the feeling about the whole class..it's cumbersome to have to micro-manage so many things at the same time just to achieve some level of burst isn't fun or balanced same way with my Dark Cloak comparison to the Warden skill "Ice Fortress" both skill cost the same, basically do the same thing but one lasts for 8sec and the other for 24sec ...so we're back to the idea that you have to "babysit a skill". The issue with the cast time on Soul Harvest is that the skill can 1.Be dodged 2. Be blocked 3. Be interrupted before you get the cast off because there's no CC attached to it to protect you 4.Force you to spend a considerable amt of time trying to get it off because the class is slow and the range is short (5m) and you have to stay within the 5m range for the entirety of the cast time, but if your opponent moves the skill doesn't go off because once you cast the skill your toon stops moving. All of that is too cumbersome for a SINGLE TARGET Ultimate no matter how strong it's perceived to be. I'm not for making magblade stronger as I am to reducing the load management on the class.0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭They were really fun. And very easy to play a couple of years ago. A perfect "solo player" class, even more so than Stamblade IMHO. I never got the grip again, after multiple nerfs that affected Magblade; most notoriously the resto staff ones.
I tried making one of them like 60k magicka shield stackers, but I felt "No. This isn't fun. This isn't me." and retired him, like so many other characters.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is flat out wrong. Unless they changed it recently, which I doubt, healthy Offering will not proc any damage taken sets.
Healthy Offering makes it much easier to proc Nightflame more frequently. I know that's not what is being discussed, but it is another advantage to Healthy Offering. Nightflame on or near on CD is extremely powerful in any content.
To the topic, didn't read the whole thread admittedly, but do know that Bolstering Darkness is one of the more powerful ults in the game in PvE due to the loooong duration, and if it cost less than 200 (146 IIRC with Dragonguard and Potentates, w Bloodspawn and vamp drain/minor heroism that's -permanent- major protection for the whole team) it would be OP. If in an organized pvp team very powerful also. If they reduced the cost, they would surely reduce the duration as well, prefer the duration.
IMO Grim Focus needs a complete rework, would love to hear from people who think it's "fun" to use in pve or pvp, not effective or powerful, fun. IMO it's just not fun to need to babysit a skill to that degree. A near mandatory class skill should not be that cumbersome. If they reworked just that skill, I'd have no problem with the class.
I mainly pvp’d as a healer/tank so have a different perspective then most.
As a healer Grim focus isn’t too bad as a defensive buff. A flat 10% damage reduction from a skill makes it decent. I had issues using it that way though, in stealth or cloak you could lose your stacks because it breaks combat.
As a dps in pvp the issue is moreso the light attack mechanic. Building stacks light attacking is an extra hurdle compared to say sorcs who just have to cast any ability.
Bolstering can be good in pvp, but it’s one of those niche abilities. IF people stack yea, major protection is good, but that just isn’t going to happen often. I’ve seen people use bolstering, IDK if I’ve ever seen the synergy.
I think the class’ issues are sustain and self healing related. For example magblades in pvp usually build with about 700 more mag regen than other classes. The utility abilities just cost too much for the effect, if magblades didn’t need so much they could have 700 more spell damage and hit harder,
Self healing is another issue. In any group setting like battlegrounds you can’t guarantee you’ll get any resto heal you cast. It’s one of the main reasons stam make better melee than mag. As say a templar you can break melee and face away from your group to honour the dead to recover half your life. A magblade will cycle between 3 different hots to try and recover and be unable.
I also think there are issues with all 3 base abilities in the NB trees. I felt weaker as a nooby magNB at level 10 than any other class. Swallow soul, concealed weapon and impale - they’re undertuned.Edited by Iskiab on December 14, 2019 1:21PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
EdTerra✭✭✭I also think there are issues with all 3 base abilities in the NB trees. I felt weaker as a nooby magNB at level 10 than any other class. Swallow soul, concealed weapon and impale - they’re undertuned.
elemental weapon is even stronger than swallow soul, it's the same damage tooltip but dealing all damage in one attack is way better, also give burning/concussion/chilled, you can use the combo : ele wp > LA > assassin's will and damages will be deadly especially if you use flame/shock on infused weapon.
concealed weapon give nothing to dark cloak users, it's just damage and it's melee not even worth using,
if ele weapon is dodged you recover most of it's magicka cost, everything is better on this skill than both MagNB main damage skills imo
[EU] AD - Erdril v16 N(oo)B | AR40
[NA] EP - Erdril NB
Still a solo player in this zergfest
Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXPJv3O6DC5ZYECfF3-rQ-Q1 -
rabidmyers✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »exeeter702 wrote: »Healthy offering is one of if not the strongest burst heal in the game currently for reasons outside of the tooltip. Anyone saying otherwise isnt worth listening to.
For sure, that’s why there’s tons of magblade healers in pvp. It all makes sense!
Dont be daft, a single burst heal does not make a healer.
The issue remains that it's the only burst heal in the game that doesn't heal the caster, and as such in practical use on a non-healer build it's a terrible skill.
It was workable before the cast time on ults. Soul Siphon was like a reset to your health bar for when the stacks got too high.
A 1 second cast time on a healing ultimate broke the class. You have about a 50/50 chance of getting the Ult off in pvp without it getting interrupted.
Before anyone pipes up... if I do it all the time... I’m talking against good opponents. The way to tell if you’re fighting good opponents? If you’re half health and don’t get hit with a bunch of DK leaps and other ultimates you’re fighting potatoes.
Well said!
There has to be some magblade buff in the works. I wouldn’t sweat it.
I just changed factions and made another magblade. Even in lowby BGs they’re undertuned. Someone would have to be completely clueless to not see they’re underpowered at this point.
Just play other classes until the devs get around to buffing it again. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you’ve stuck with magblade or can do okay, you’ll dominate with another class. From playing a magblade you’ll be used to struggling and rip players you’ve struggled with.
which faction did u change to, hahaat a place nobody knows0 -
KCC11✭I also think there are issues with all 3 base abilities in the NB trees. I felt weaker as a nooby magNB at level 10 than any other class. Swallow soul, concealed weapon and impale - they’re undertuned.
elemental weapon is even stronger than swallow soul, it's the same damage tooltip but dealing all damage in one attack is way better, also give burning/concussion/chilled, you can use the combo : ele wp > LA > assassin's will and damages will be deadly especially if you use flame/shock on infused weapon.
concealed weapon give nothing to dark cloak users, it's just damage and it's melee not even worth using,
if ele weapon is dodged you recover most of it's magicka cost, everything is better on this skill than both MagNB main damage skills imo
For the most part I agree with you, the issue is you generally need swallow soul for the extra 8% max magicka not to mention the fact that swallow soul heals you for a good amount makes it valuable as a spammable since that's what the class severely lacks. If not for those two reasons there'd be no reason to slot swallow soul and for some magblades those reasons aren't enough to make them slot the skill but personally that's why I keep it.0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I also think there are issues with all 3 base abilities in the NB trees. I felt weaker as a nooby magNB at level 10 than any other class. Swallow soul, concealed weapon and impale - they’re undertuned.
elemental weapon is even stronger than swallow soul, it's the same damage tooltip but dealing all damage in one attack is way better, also give burning/concussion/chilled, you can use the combo : ele wp > LA > assassin's will and damages will be deadly especially if you use flame/shock on infused weapon.
concealed weapon give nothing to dark cloak users, it's just damage and it's melee not even worth using,
if ele weapon is dodged you recover most of it's magicka cost, everything is better on this skill than both MagNB main damage skills imo
So’s force pulse. It’s a weapon ability so will proc enchants plus has the destro passive for 10% extra pen.
When I played my magNB I always found you add class skills for passives, then try to use as many non-class skills as possible.
People disagreed but I still think funnel health is the worst spammable in the game, followed by swallow soul. Impale is okay and hits hard, but it’s difficult to get the under 20% health condition. I had the most success with it as a healer kill stealing. Concealed is only good for the speed buff and on ganking builds for a stun.Edited by Iskiab on December 15, 2019 1:00PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0