im about 9k silver shard and it hits more than 1 enemy, and it costs ~2k stamina.nesakinter wrote: »Stone Giant deals 11% more damage than Silver Shards and costs less on Medium Armor if you take into account the Helping Hands passives. On a regular build, you will be lucky to push beyond 10k on Silver Shards tooltip(not in build editor, where as you can add tons of damage boosts, which are not realistic). Essentially the only class that can push high enough damage to make Silver Shards worthwhile is stamblade.
Making it AoE will make it OP in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, mainly because it's effective cost is still lesser than single target skills and far lesser than AoE skills and it will affect multiple targets, which is a huge thing in score raids. In PvP, because it will now become undodgeable too.
perhaps. but not for the single-target-only ~9k on average build spammable. (Stagger is useless unless ur in a end-game trial/vetDungeon, and nobody cares for the stun. nobody. ever.)I don't you understand the high cost was very intentional by devs to make sure it costs the same as a regular spammable after Helping Hands and actually lesser with cost reduction passives of medium armor.
i agree its not all sucky, its in my PvE rotation. but decent? god, not even. dont even compare to Venom Skull or Cliff Racer unless you play those classes. they are not even on the same class, especially in PvP.BTW, I am a stamDK main and I will admit that it is not the best spammable for PvP but it is still decent. I feel it is only added to give a constant position to stamDK in PvE raids as its only purpose and devs intend stamDKs to keep using weapon skill spammables in PvP. Otherwise they would have merged the two current Whip morphs into one and added a stam morph for Whip, which was the logical thing to do if they intended to allow stamDKs to use it in PvP. Think about how none of the new classes' spammables makes sense in PvP outside of use as buffs/debuffs. It is 100% intended. They want Stamplar and Stamblade to be the only classes using class spammables for majority builds. They did mention on ESO live and that they just want class setups to be viable not optimal, which is exactly the category skills like Venom Skull, Cliff Racer, Stone Giant fall in. They are viable not optimal.
Also, think about Surprise Attack. Ever since the Major Fracture removal, it is a rather mediocre spammable. While stamNBs have big tooltips with it, it is only due to the high damage setups stamNBs run and otherwise, it has the exact same scaling as Stone Giant. This means that if Surprise Attack was a StamDK spammable, you would have same damage as Stone Giant, lesser range, weaker debuff. On paper, Stone Giant may seem weak but that is only because stamDK can not run the huge damage of stamNB and essentially require tankier builds to survive.
nesakinter wrote: »Stone Giant deals 11% more damage than Silver Shards and costs less on Medium Armor if you take into account the Helping Hands passives. On a regular build, you will be lucky to push beyond 10k on Silver Shards tooltip(not in build editor, where as you can add tons of damage boosts, which are not realistic). Essentially the only class that can push high enough damage to make Silver Shards worthwhile is stamblade.
Making it AoE will make it OP in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, mainly because it's effective cost is still lesser than single target skills and far lesser than AoE skills and it will affect multiple targets, which is a huge thing in score raids. In PvP, because it will now become undodgeable too.
I don't you understand the high cost was very intentional by devs to make sure it costs the same as a regular spammable after Helping Hands and actually lesser with cost reduction passives of medium armor.
BTW, I am a stamDK main and I will admit that it is not the best spammable for PvP but it is still decent. I feel it is only added to give a constant position to stamDK in PvE raids as its only purpose and devs intend stamDKs to keep using weapon skill spammables in PvP. Otherwise they would have merged the two current Whip morphs into one and added a stam morph for Whip, which was the logical thing to do if they intended to allow stamDKs to use it in PvP. Think about how none of the new classes' spammables makes sense in PvP outside of use as buffs/debuffs. It is 100% intended. They want Stamplar and Stamblade to be the only classes using class spammables for majority builds. They did mention on ESO live and that they just want class setups to be viable not optimal, which is exactly the category skills like Venom Skull, Cliff Racer, Stone Giant fall in. They are viable not optimal.
Also, think about Surprise Attack. Ever since the Major Fracture removal, it is a rather mediocre spammable. While stamNBs have big tooltips with it, it is only due to the high damage setups stamNBs run and otherwise, it has the exact same scaling as Stone Giant. This means that if Surprise Attack was a StamDK spammable, you would have same damage as Stone Giant, lesser range, weaker debuff. On paper, Stone Giant may seem weak but that is only because stamDK can not run the huge damage of stamNB and essentially require tankier builds to survive.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
hello
an AoE group of shards coming from EARTH, as it is an EARTHen heart skill?
Even something like tremorscales effect (Saddest part, the guy who plays with animals, flowers and ice have EARTHquake based skills, and not the one with an entre line dedicated to EARTH magic)
hello
an AoE group of shards coming from EARTH, as it is an EARTHen heart skill?
Even something like tremorscales effect (Saddest part, the guy who plays with animals, flowers and ice have EARTHquake based skills, and not the one with an entre line dedicated to EARTH magic)
how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?
MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?
Even in no-cp Its not that difficult to get d.swing around 10k tooltip, so 13k on a CP high weapon damage build seems very normal to me. Also keep in mind d.swing will have around %17-20 higher tooltip than stonefist.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
truth.
kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
truth.
kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.
I'm just tired of criticizing the dev team in an often insulting tone, or try to give them feedback or insight. They had an opportunity to win me over and they blew it up in the most insulting way possible. Not much else to say really.
Honestly If I had the option I would like to have the old wings, corrosive and fossilize back. That was plenty of class identity in my opinion, and thinking back on it, where does fixing stonefist even leave us? Sure we got a class spammable now. But we already have tons of weapon spammables what would a melee stonefist do that dizzying swing does not?
You still don't have any class defining abilities so what good would it be really?
Do you hear stam wardens or necros complain about using d.swing? You don't have to have a good class spammable , to have a good , fun , unique class.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.
As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?
Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...
I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.
He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.
Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class
And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.
truth.
kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.
I'm just tired of criticizing the dev team in an often insulting tone, or try to give them feedback or insight. They had an opportunity to win me over and they blew it up in the most insulting way possible. Not much else to say really.
Honestly If I had the option I would like to have the old wings, corrosive and fossilize back. That was plenty of class identity in my opinion, and thinking back on it, where does fixing stonefist even leave us? Sure we got a class spammable now. But we already have tons of weapon spammables what would a melee stonefist do that dizzying swing does not?
You still don't have any class defining abilities so what good would it be really?
Do you hear stam wardens or necros complain about using d.swing? You don't have to have a good class spammable , to have a good , fun , unique class.
ive been here since BETA maining DK, from stam to mag to stam.
my expectation bar is already really low. threads such as this are less feedback/insight/critics, more "shower thoughts".
i'm also a big fan of the 80/20 rule in life.
so i put the chance ZOS actually heard my complaint and change it exactly the way i want it at 20% chance.
back on thread, yes, i dont need spammables for class identity. of course, absolutely, a solid spammable can bring a lot to a class' identity, but i'm fine with the old wing and corrosive too.
sure, they pick the skill that no one uses, so that gives us Stone Fist, so i commend their initiative at least. so now it's the refinement phase, is all. and stone giant needs a LOT of refinement.
In no cp PvP, stone Poop is doing more than fine. Stam Dks are dishing out mad damage in BGs.
So if you’re struggling, it’s a learn2play issue.
In no cp PvP, stone Poop is doing more than fine. Stam Dks are dishing out mad damage in BGs.
So if you’re struggling, it’s a learn2play issue.
Dragonredux wrote: »Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...
My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.
There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.
I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.
hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.
Dragonredux wrote: »Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...
My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.
There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.
I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.
amazing. we are the choir. come join.
also....hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.
will be the summary of this thread.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Dragonredux wrote: »Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...
My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.
There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.
I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.
amazing. we are the choir. come join.
also....hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.
will be the summary of this thread.
We need create an open letter signed by all stamDKs.
Like
-"we don't want ability which is balanced like ranged one, has all the downsides of the ranged one (slow projectile) and which doesn't synergizes with none of DK builds in terms of range",
- "we don't want PVE raid buff feature to be attached to long desired stamDK PVP ST spammable",
- "we want fast and effective melee spammable which will fit into range of claw and noxious breath and class aesthetics. Bleed type of damage looks fitting for stamina dragon"
TLDR; Stone Giant should be conal, poison-based damage with a lower cost and a bleed.