Stone Giant

Davadin · December 2019

Again. yes. lets talk about the poop fist once more.

Again and again I've been playing with this skill. Somehow i just want this to work, perhaps. Something with my previous life or whatever. I tried PvE, PvP, medium, heavy, SNB/2H, DW, Bow, Dungeons, Trials, vetDLC, BG, Cyro, Imp City, etc..........

While it's not a bad skill in my PvE rotation, (everybody benefits the 3-stagger stacked, cool), i can't find any usage for this in PvP.

why would anyone want this when you have the Fighter Guild's crossbow with cheaper, harder hitting, adds 3% damage? the stun? really?

So, I'm done asking for cost reduction, ZOS seems to turn a blind eye on it...

So here's my next proposal (yes others have brought it up too): make it the same cone/range as Nox breath.

perhaps not all enemy gets the same damage, make it 100% on main target and 60~80% on others in the cone, sure.
perhaps remove the stun.

but make it cone, shorter range, makes it a true melee skill with the same stagger stack (which is the only good thing about it), and keep the same ridicolous cost.

maybe.

what do you think, ZOS?

Freakin_Hytte · December 2019

I would be much happier if they just made an entirely new animation, making it into a melee. Maybe making your hand into a big stone fist, which you can pound into an enemy's ugly face.

The current animation and the fact that it's a range spammable just makes it feeling sooooo clunky.

nesakinter · December 2019

Stone Giant deals 11% more damage than Silver Shards and costs less on Medium Armor if you take into account the Helping Hands passives. On a regular build, you will be lucky to push beyond 10k on Silver Shards tooltip(not in build editor, where as you can add tons of damage boosts, which are not realistic). Essentially the only class that can push high enough damage to make Silver Shards worthwhile is stamblade.

Making it AoE will make it OP in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, mainly because it's effective cost is still lesser than single target skills and far lesser than AoE skills and it will affect multiple targets, which is a huge thing in score raids. In PvP, because it will now become undodgeable too.

I don't you understand the high cost was very intentional by devs to make sure it costs the same as a regular spammable after Helping Hands and actually lesser with cost reduction passives of medium armor.

BTW, I am a stamDK main and I will admit that it is not the best spammable for PvP but it is still decent. I feel it is only added to give a constant position to stamDK in PvE raids as its only purpose and devs intend stamDKs to keep using weapon skill spammables in PvP. Otherwise they would have merged the two current Whip morphs into one and added a stam morph for Whip, which was the logical thing to do if they intended to allow stamDKs to use it in PvP. Think about how none of the new classes' spammables makes sense in PvP outside of use as buffs/debuffs. It is 100% intended. They want Stamplar and Stamblade to be the only classes using class spammables for majority builds. They did mention on ESO live and that they just want class setups to be viable not optimal, which is exactly the category skills like Venom Skull, Cliff Racer, Stone Giant fall in. They are viable not optimal.

Also, think about Surprise Attack. Ever since the Major Fracture removal, it is a rather mediocre spammable. While stamNBs have big tooltips with it, it is only due to the high damage setups stamNBs run and otherwise, it has the exact same scaling as Stone Giant. This means that if Surprise Attack was a StamDK spammable, you would have same damage as Stone Giant, lesser range, weaker debuff. On paper, Stone Giant may seem weak but that is only because stamDK can not run the huge damage of stamNB and essentially require tankier builds to survive.

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

I think making it AoE is the only way to make the stagger effect be worth anything in PvP. Its really a win-win for everyone involved, PvE stamDK gets to have their class flavor trial utility, PvP stamDK gets potential AoE stun off of their spammable which gives them much needed group utility. Everybody wins.

Edit: And yes, definitely a new animation is neccessary aswell since this is a fantasy mmorpg game, If I wanted to realistically throw rocks at people like a peasant I would probably play mordhau or something.

Davadin · December 2019

nesakinter wrote: »

Stone Giant deals 11% more damage than Silver Shards and costs less on Medium Armor if you take into account the Helping Hands passives. On a regular build, you will be lucky to push beyond 10k on Silver Shards tooltip(not in build editor, where as you can add tons of damage boosts, which are not realistic). Essentially the only class that can push high enough damage to make Silver Shards worthwhile is stamblade.

im about 9k silver shard and it hits more than 1 enemy, and it costs ~2k stamina.

its worthwhile for any stam class who wants ranged/ranged AoE damage.

end of discussion.

Making it AoE will make it OP in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, mainly because it's effective cost is still lesser than single target skills and far lesser than AoE skills and it will affect multiple targets, which is a huge thing in score raids. In PvP, because it will now become undodgeable too.

look at Noxious breath. is it OP?

If ZOS take my proposal, Nox will costs less (yes even with the passive, it's still less initial cost when ur stamina is completely drained) has bleed, has breach.

SG adds... 135 damage?

PvE it won't be less OP than Carve with a Master Weapon, or Nox breath if you're stamDK.

I don't you understand the high cost was very intentional by devs to make sure it costs the same as a regular spammable after Helping Hands and actually lesser with cost reduction passives of medium armor.

perhaps. but not for the single-target-only ~9k on average build spammable. (Stagger is useless unless ur in a end-game trial/vetDungeon, and nobody cares for the stun. nobody. ever.)

BTW, I am a stamDK main and I will admit that it is not the best spammable for PvP but it is still decent. I feel it is only added to give a constant position to stamDK in PvE raids as its only purpose and devs intend stamDKs to keep using weapon skill spammables in PvP. Otherwise they would have merged the two current Whip morphs into one and added a stam morph for Whip, which was the logical thing to do if they intended to allow stamDKs to use it in PvP. Think about how none of the new classes' spammables makes sense in PvP outside of use as buffs/debuffs. It is 100% intended. They want Stamplar and Stamblade to be the only classes using class spammables for majority builds. They did mention on ESO live and that they just want class setups to be viable not optimal, which is exactly the category skills like Venom Skull, Cliff Racer, Stone Giant fall in. They are viable not optimal.

i agree its not all sucky, its in my PvE rotation. but decent? god, not even. dont even compare to Venom Skull or Cliff Racer unless you play those classes. they are not even on the same class, especially in PvP.

Also, think about Surprise Attack. Ever since the Major Fracture removal, it is a rather mediocre spammable. While stamNBs have big tooltips with it, it is only due to the high damage setups stamNBs run and otherwise, it has the exact same scaling as Stone Giant. This means that if Surprise Attack was a StamDK spammable, you would have same damage as Stone Giant, lesser range, weaker debuff. On paper, Stone Giant may seem weak but that is only because stamDK can not run the huge damage of stamNB and essentially require tankier builds to survive.

thats NB's problem lol.... but as a stamDK it's not even a decent spammable.

I can only wish one day ZOS can come out with the stats on how many people are actually using this skill.

3 months in the future: "Hey guys, due to the unpopular usage of this skill, we're going to plan to discuss to think to imagine.... to do something with this skill. ok?"

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

nesakinter wrote: »

Stone Giant deals 11% more damage than Silver Shards and costs less on Medium Armor if you take into account the Helping Hands passives. On a regular build, you will be lucky to push beyond 10k on Silver Shards tooltip(not in build editor, where as you can add tons of damage boosts, which are not realistic). Essentially the only class that can push high enough damage to make Silver Shards worthwhile is stamblade.

Making it AoE will make it OP in both PvE and PvP. In PvE, mainly because it's effective cost is still lesser than single target skills and far lesser than AoE skills and it will affect multiple targets, which is a huge thing in score raids. In PvP, because it will now become undodgeable too.

I don't you understand the high cost was very intentional by devs to make sure it costs the same as a regular spammable after Helping Hands and actually lesser with cost reduction passives of medium armor.

BTW, I am a stamDK main and I will admit that it is not the best spammable for PvP but it is still decent. I feel it is only added to give a constant position to stamDK in PvE raids as its only purpose and devs intend stamDKs to keep using weapon skill spammables in PvP. Otherwise they would have merged the two current Whip morphs into one and added a stam morph for Whip, which was the logical thing to do if they intended to allow stamDKs to use it in PvP. Think about how none of the new classes' spammables makes sense in PvP outside of use as buffs/debuffs. It is 100% intended. They want Stamplar and Stamblade to be the only classes using class spammables for majority builds. They did mention on ESO live and that they just want class setups to be viable not optimal, which is exactly the category skills like Venom Skull, Cliff Racer, Stone Giant fall in. They are viable not optimal.

Also, think about Surprise Attack. Ever since the Major Fracture removal, it is a rather mediocre spammable. While stamNBs have big tooltips with it, it is only due to the high damage setups stamNBs run and otherwise, it has the exact same scaling as Stone Giant. This means that if Surprise Attack was a StamDK spammable, you would have same damage as Stone Giant, lesser range, weaker debuff. On paper, Stone Giant may seem weak but that is only because stamDK can not run the huge damage of stamNB and essentially require tankier builds to survive.

I was about to quote you on just how wrong and ignorant you are about this, but Davadin already did so.

Your reasoning lacks context. deep slash is an AoE spammable. Whirling blades is AoE. Steel nado is AoE. Noxious breath is AoE. Sub assault is AoE. blastbones is AoE. None of these strike you as overpowered but the idea of stonefist is?

How would it be overpowered in trial score runs? You won't see 8 stamDks in trials because you only need one stamDK to keep high uptimate, having multiple stamDks doesn't change crap and the stagger debuff is REALLY WEAK unless the whole raid is hitting the same target. So Its pretty much used for boss cheese.

As for PvP , you don't even seem to realize the fact that the real strong part of AoE stonefist would be the ability to have AoE stuns after three successful casts, as a part of a spammable that would be strong and definitely class defining, but not overpowered since it takes three casts, you have PLENTY of time to react to it and it would be strong as an attrition tool rather than burst, in fact its wouldn't even be burst. There is however plenty of counterplay, purging or blocking the effect denies the stagger stun.

If you think the idea of an AoE stun is overpowered because the way you talk suggests that you do, thats literally what FG fear does, but its unblockable and undodgeable, so yeah. Even if it was AoE stonefist would still be somewhat inferior in 1v1 situations and stagger effect and its stun holds little value so it would make sense to make it into an AoE stun, I don't see you coming up with a better solution other than ''hurr durr just use weapon spammables''.

Sure, lets remove sub assault and blastbones while at it, and ask those classes to also just use weapon spammables, I'm sure they'll feel great about it.

MartiniDaniels · December 2019

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

Xvorg · December 2019

hello

an AoE group of shards coming from EARTH, as it is an EARTHen heart skill?

Even something like tremorscales effect (Saddest part, the guy who plays with animals, flowers and ice have EARTHquake based skills, and not the one with an entre line dedicated to EARTH magic)

Davadin · December 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

yes on all bases. If only ZOS read this thread though............

Xvorg wrote: »

hello

an AoE group of shards coming from EARTH, as it is an EARTHen heart skill?

Even something like tremorscales effect (Saddest part, the guy who plays with animals, flowers and ice have EARTHquake based skills, and not the one with an entre line dedicated to EARTH magic)

yknow I had the Domihaus monster set lately, it's actually pretty neat. use it on PvP and its OK. not better than Bloodspawn and could be as useful as Valkyn.

but yknow what i love?

the rock effect.

Ariades_swe · December 2019

Apart from the horrible animation I like the skill when I play on console where dizzy is harder to land vs non potatoes or in laggy situations.
My stonefist got a 13 k tooltip which is decent and gives me back ult without having to spam ignious every six secs.
Now in an optimal situation dizzy is better but in a console environment against competent players I've found stonefist to be more consistent after I got used to the ugly animation.
If it's gonna become an aoe to use as spammable it will need to have the same damage as jabs or it will be *** against people with major evasion and totally worthless against dw brp users since it lets them stack evasion and major protection from a single skill use.
On pc use dizzy though.

Davadin · December 2019

how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

Xvorg wrote: »

hello

an AoE group of shards coming from EARTH, as it is an EARTHen heart skill?

Even something like tremorscales effect (Saddest part, the guy who plays with animals, flowers and ice have EARTHquake based skills, and not the one with an entre line dedicated to EARTH magic)

The 2h stampede ability also has some nice earth effects that makes you wonder why fragmented shield doesn't do something similar. As for how useful a ground dot is, up to debate. A lot of people think of stampede dot as garbage but I value its synergy with vMA 2H a lot.

Davadin wrote: »

how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?

Even in no-cp Its not that difficult to get d.swing around 10k tooltip, so 13k on a CP high weapon damage build seems very normal to me. Also keep in mind d.swing will have around %17-20 higher tooltip than stonefist.

Ariades_swe · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?

13 k tooltip stone giant I meant

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

Xvorg · December 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

oXI_Viper_IXo · December 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

Davadin · December 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

truth.

kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

how did u get 13k tooltip dizzy? after major/minor brutality buff?

Even in no-cp Its not that difficult to get d.swing around 10k tooltip, so 13k on a CP high weapon damage build seems very normal to me. Also keep in mind d.swing will have around %17-20 higher tooltip than stonefist.

bro. i meant stone giant. i max out 12.5k with brutality. with weapon proc it'll break 13k i suppose.

dswing at 15k at that point.

but i still will choose the xbow at 11k tooltip but it hits everyone 5m radius AND it's freakin 28m range.

I've been playing with it in Cyro last couple of nights and i really felt like a cowboy goes bang bang bang..... but stone giant? uuuugh....... projectile looks like it's in slow motion, the animation (btw it's the same animation with the soul shard ranged DoT thing) is clunky, stun barely ever land, nobody cares about 135 cut in half in cyrodiil.

again, that xbow nice as at 11k and 2k stam cost. fast animation and projectile flew fast from 28m away.

ooh and 3% extra damage.

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

truth.

kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.

I'm just tired of criticizing the dev team in an often insulting tone, or try to give them feedback or insight. They had an opportunity to win me over and they blew it up in the most insulting way possible. Not much else to say really.

Honestly If I had the option I would like to have the old wings, corrosive and fossilize back. That was plenty of class identity in my opinion, and thinking back on it, where does fixing stonefist even leave us? Sure we got a class spammable now. But we already have tons of weapon spammables what would a melee stonefist do that dizzying swing does not?

You still don't have any class defining abilities so what good would it be really?

Do you hear stam wardens or necros complain about using d.swing? You don't have to have a good class spammable , to have a good , fun , unique class.

Davadin · December 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

truth.

kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.

I'm just tired of criticizing the dev team in an often insulting tone, or try to give them feedback or insight. They had an opportunity to win me over and they blew it up in the most insulting way possible. Not much else to say really.

Honestly If I had the option I would like to have the old wings, corrosive and fossilize back. That was plenty of class identity in my opinion, and thinking back on it, where does fixing stonefist even leave us? Sure we got a class spammable now. But we already have tons of weapon spammables what would a melee stonefist do that dizzying swing does not?

You still don't have any class defining abilities so what good would it be really?

Do you hear stam wardens or necros complain about using d.swing? You don't have to have a good class spammable , to have a good , fun , unique class.

ive been here since BETA maining DK, from stam to mag to stam.

my expectation bar is already really low. threads such as this are less feedback/insight/critics, more "shower thoughts".

i'm also a big fan of the 80/20 rule in life.

so i put the chance ZOS actually heard my complaint and change it exactly the way i want it at 20% chance.

back on thread, yes, i dont need spammables for class identity. of course, absolutely, a solid spammable can bring a lot to a class' identity, but i'm fine with the old wing and corrosive too.

sure, they pick the skill that no one uses, so that gives us Stone Fist, so i commend their initiative at least. so now it's the refinement phase, is all. and stone giant needs a LOT of refinement.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

In no cp PvP, stone Poop is doing more than fine. Stam Dks are dishing out mad damage in BGs.

So if you’re struggling, it’s a learn2play issue.

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I think it should be remade into pure melee obsidian blade with short cool animation like puncture/SA. Instead of stacks of stagger it should apply stacks of bleed, which stack and renew each other to a certain limit. Basically stamDK is most melee class in the game, it should have increasing advantage for time he manages to stay in melee.

As for stone fist I enjoyed it on my PVE tank.. for PVP it just looks stupid. Who am I? Magma poop thrower? Slinger? David vs Goliath? So far ZOS can live ability as it is for PVE, but for PVP give to stamDK something cool, like bound armaments of stamsorc. There is another useless morph of fossilize, why not overhaul it?

Guess what, every stamsorc I see uses those armaments with their distinctive sound. StamDKs are all dizzying... ok, I heard some people use stonefist and even saw them in video, but didn't met in person...

I was supporting Gilliam and new team up untill this point but honestly their actions are proof that they really do not care and Gilliam is even worse than Wrobel when it comes to preserving class identity.

He removed projectile absorbtion from Dks but kept it for wardens and even gave it to sorcerers on BoL skill.
He removed Corrosive's dot synergy and gave the full penetration to onslaught skill, allowing everyone else to have a better version of what they had.

Practically two biggest class defining strengths of stamDk, stripped away with literally no compensation. Now you're just a weak ass stam warden that throws rocks at people. Oh and stamden also has two dots and a purge , wanna complain? Too bad. Should have played a DLC class

And what do we get when we say we want this garbage ass rock thing to be strong? Nope, that would be %11 stronger than a generic fighter's guild spammable. We can't have that.

truth.

kinda wish they hear us to make this aoe cone though. that'll be a simple buff that kinda touch on the whole melee identity. but oh well.

I'm just tired of criticizing the dev team in an often insulting tone, or try to give them feedback or insight. They had an opportunity to win me over and they blew it up in the most insulting way possible. Not much else to say really.

Honestly If I had the option I would like to have the old wings, corrosive and fossilize back. That was plenty of class identity in my opinion, and thinking back on it, where does fixing stonefist even leave us? Sure we got a class spammable now. But we already have tons of weapon spammables what would a melee stonefist do that dizzying swing does not?

You still don't have any class defining abilities so what good would it be really?

Do you hear stam wardens or necros complain about using d.swing? You don't have to have a good class spammable , to have a good , fun , unique class.

ive been here since BETA maining DK, from stam to mag to stam.

my expectation bar is already really low. threads such as this are less feedback/insight/critics, more "shower thoughts".

i'm also a big fan of the 80/20 rule in life.

so i put the chance ZOS actually heard my complaint and change it exactly the way i want it at 20% chance.

back on thread, yes, i dont need spammables for class identity. of course, absolutely, a solid spammable can bring a lot to a class' identity, but i'm fine with the old wing and corrosive too.

sure, they pick the skill that no one uses, so that gives us Stone Fist, so i commend their initiative at least. so now it's the refinement phase, is all. and stone giant needs a LOT of refinement.

I see. That is a good mindset to have then.

Ragnarock41 · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

In no cp PvP, stone Poop is doing more than fine. Stam Dks are dishing out mad damage in BGs.

So if you’re struggling, it’s a learn2play issue.

Op stamDK era was about 3 patches ago buddy.

Then again you believe stam warden and stamblade as weak classes so that tells me a lot about your expertise honestly.

ChunkyCat · December 2019

Guess you don’t play the B of Gs.

And I never said they were weak. But you, yeah, you definitely are tho.

ThePhantomThorn · December 2019

Ill just say...
why is the stam spammable ranged?

the dots are melee / close ranged, but the spammable ranged?
like why?

it should be a stone fist.
not a projectile of poop.

make it melee. a punch animation, then it would be like the dks identity.

MartiniDaniels · December 2019

ChunkyCat wrote: »

In no cp PvP, stone Poop is doing more than fine. Stam Dks are dishing out mad damage in BGs.

So if you’re struggling, it’s a learn2play issue.

In smallscale groups maybe, given that stagger increases damage from all people. But solo... damage is alright but cost of stonefist is completely out of place. It should have 2700 base cost like all ranged spammables. Then with helping hands it will be awesome.
But for unknown reason devs added helping hands stamina return to stam fist cost... while they didn't subtracted burning light damage from jabs&shards... didn't subtracted 5% from all sorcs damaging abilities etc. It's not an absurd nerf attempt, it is just an example of double standarts where DK class abilities are "compensated" for DK passives. Stamfist and wings are brightest examples.
For me it looks like current combat team doesn't like stamDKs, and so overhauled for class identity stamplar, stamden and stamsorc are awesome and stamDK is mediocre.

Dragonredux · December 2019

Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...

My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.

There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.

I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.

Davadin · December 2019

Dragonredux wrote: »

Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...

My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.

There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.

I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.

amazing. we are the choir. come join.

also....

hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.

will be the summary of this thread.

MartiniDaniels · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

Dragonredux wrote: »

Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...

My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.

There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.

I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.

amazing. we are the choir. come join.

also....

hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.

will be the summary of this thread.

We need create an open letter signed by all stamDKs.

Like
-"we don't want ability which is balanced like ranged one, has all the downsides of the ranged one (slow projectile) and which doesn't synergizes with none of DK builds in terms of range",
- "we don't want PVE raid buff feature to be attached to long desired stamDK PVP ST spammable",
- "we want fast and effective melee spammable which will fit into range of claw and noxious breath and class aesthetics. Bleed type of damage looks fitting for stamina dragon"

juhislihis19 · December 2019

Well it should be 5m melee spammable IMO. This would be buffed by the passive that increases the range by 2m.

Should it be Poison Damage? Therefore it would be affected by the World in Ruin passive and decrease the cost. This would bring the cost to around 2600. Make it that Helping Hands won't effect this so it wouldn't get too cheap. Or increase the initial cost, then the passive would reduce the cost to something like 2800-3000, and Hands will decrease the cost to ~2k or a bit more.

The damage taken is quite useless in PVP, and the stun on 3rd cast is somewhat unreliable. Kind of like the Venom Skull's 3rd spam damage boost.

Davadin · December 2019

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

Dragonredux wrote: »

Well I'm a casual so my word probably won't mean much and I'm probably preaching to the choir here but...

My main problem with Stonefist/Stone Giant is that it doesn't feel good use or look at.

There is a reason why i use Dizzying Swing over Stone Giant. I don't give a crap if Stone Giant adds 1-5% to overall group dps. My huge character hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy. Also the awkwardness of using a ranged ability on a class full of close in your face abilities.

I'll take your suggestion of making it a cone effect in front you and make the animation like your character slamming their fist or weapon on the ground. Then have the attack animation itself looks like a quake on the ground which helps the whole stagger and stun mechanic since you know its a QUAKE.

amazing. we are the choir. come join.

also....

hitting people with a heavy blade feels more like a DRAGONknight than me throwing taco bell at the enemy.

will be the summary of this thread.

We need create an open letter signed by all stamDKs.

Like
-"we don't want ability which is balanced like ranged one, has all the downsides of the ranged one (slow projectile) and which doesn't synergizes with none of DK builds in terms of range",
- "we don't want PVE raid buff feature to be attached to long desired stamDK PVP ST spammable",
- "we want fast and effective melee spammable which will fit into range of claw and noxious breath and class aesthetics. Bleed type of damage looks fitting for stamina dragon"

TLDR; Stone Giant should be conal, poison-based damage with a lower cost and a bleed.

xylena · December 2019

Davadin wrote: »

TLDR; Stone Giant should be conal, poison-based damage with a lower cost and a bleed.

Stone Giant should be Nox Breath?

I really don't like how the fiery melee warrior I signed up for is now a Toilet Mage. Throw flaming turds. Vomit poison. Squat and grunt to buff. RIP Unstable Flame