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Remove the Knockdown from Toppling Charge
nsmurfer
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THis is the one skill that is making magplar a overpowered class in the game.
You should not have Stun+Gap Close+off balance in one skill. It can jump through space and go straight up, even though other class gapclosers like Ambush was nerfed not to be able do that. It is ridiculous how overpowered this skill is right now. Every other class has use to three different skills for these three functions, which means triple the cost, 3xgcd as well two extra required skill slots. Half of the Sorc and NB skills got nerfed saying they did a lot more than the average power budget. Then why does magplar skills have to be the only exceptions?
Toppling Charge is the skill which makes it possible to just crutch on Jab-spam ever since the gap closers were made super fast and the minimum distance removed. Toppling Charge > Jabspam, if they last long enough repeat the same thing. They also have the luxury of having the only burst ultimate with no cast time or travel time, yet another exception.
Just revert buff to how it was when it only knockdown casting targets. Or give it a kiss curse to make up for doing more than another gap closer in the game.
And before anyone says just block, just the speed buff, it is not possible to block an incoming topling charge all of time. It works hardly 20% of the time and rest of the time, the game does not detect that you are blocking by the time the target knocks you back.
You should not have Stun+Gap Close+off balance in one skill. It can jump through space and go straight up, even though other class gapclosers like Ambush was nerfed not to be able do that. It is ridiculous how overpowered this skill is right now. Every other class has use to three different skills for these three functions, which means triple the cost, 3xgcd as well two extra required skill slots. Half of the Sorc and NB skills got nerfed saying they did a lot more than the average power budget. Then why does magplar skills have to be the only exceptions?
Toppling Charge is the skill which makes it possible to just crutch on Jab-spam ever since the gap closers were made super fast and the minimum distance removed. Toppling Charge > Jabspam, if they last long enough repeat the same thing. They also have the luxury of having the only burst ultimate with no cast time or travel time, yet another exception.
Just revert buff to how it was when it only knockdown casting targets. Or give it a kiss curse to make up for doing more than another gap closer in the game.
And before anyone says just block, just the speed buff, it is not possible to block an incoming topling charge all of time. It works hardly 20% of the time and rest of the time, the game does not detect that you are blocking by the time the target knocks you back.
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nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭Also before anyone claims PvE getting nerfed because of PvP, Toppling is a mostly PvP magplar skill and no real use in PvE what so ever.8
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BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭One of the few valid Templar complaints.Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.10 -
Stebarnz✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well put together complaint/nerf wish.
The skill is over performing and needs looking at I agree, just hope they don't do normal ZOS procedure and change it to make it a dead skill and of no use.
'Just revert buff to how it was when it only knockdown casting targets' Would be still a good skill and would still be on my bar.1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭A nightblade main (based on your previous post history) complaining about one of the few counters to the class.....
How convenient...18 -
Dovahmiim✭✭✭✭Lmao Magplar has been a balanced class since the DoT nerfs. To put your complaint in to perspective, you cite a skill doing these 3 things as being reason for a nerf: gap closer, stun, off balance. Most classes don't NEED a gap closer, as they have tools in their kit to control their enemy and keep them in range, fossilize on magDK for example. A stun being attached to a gap close only looks powerful because ZoS have gimped many of the other stronger forms of CC. As for the off-balance component, this is no longer very useful, as taking advantage of this 10% damage boost from CP requires inefficient CP investment (considering DoTs are weak now, and jabs scaled with direct damage). Generally speaking, only weaker players believe "jabspam" is effective, if you cannot use the opening as a means to counter, that is on you. Could we agree that limiting the off-balance application to casting targets only would be a fair compromise?
You bring up comparison to sorc/NB CC skills that got gutted, for the record I'd much prefer they were brought back up (ie. frag stun, fear not being trash).I'm better.10 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just stop, just stop right where you are at. Honestly, if you are complaining about the class that gets nerfed the most, its probably you not the class.12 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every person who asks for this to be nerfed should include which of their class cc or root skills they are willing to go without. Because the Templar is the only class without roots, and only has 2 cc skills, javelin which knocks enemies outside of your damage range, and toppling charge.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche11 -
nsmurfer✭✭✭✭✭@Reverb
I mainly play magsorc and magblade. Magsorc already lost their iconic stun from frags. Streak is nice though.
And Magblade? They had their primary CC handed to all classes as a better version. They has no AoE snare, no strong snare or any thing other classes cant give. They lost their own Lotus fan snare (as apparently CC on a gapcloser was too OP according to ZOS themselves), lost their bow proc snare, etc. If you are trying to imply that magplar has the worst CC kit, you have never played magblade.
Magplar has a *** of snares so you can't say they lack CC. Snares are also CC skills btw. Also that does not excuse Toppling being over budgeted.
ZOS should remove the knockback from Javelin and force magplars to use an extra gcd and skill slot. I mean they cited that exact reason for nerfed half of magblade skills.9 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also before anyone claims PvE getting nerfed because of PvP, Toppling is a mostly PvP magplar skill and no real use in PvE what so ever.
Combat in PvE is already too bland as it is. Stop asking to make things worse.
Bring back every stun, knock back, fear, reflect, or whatever that PvP has robbed from this game. Just acknowledge that abilities have them and deal with it.
Signed someone who does not play a templar.11 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭We don't need even more vamp drain spam, and that's exactly what you get when you remove one the few usable class cc skills left.Edited by Rianai on December 2, 2019 1:21AM4 -
Hexquisite✭✭✭✭I would just like to point out that "Jabs" are from Stamplars, not Magplars.PC NA~Ethereal Traders Union~~Spicy Economics~~Tropic Thunder~~Us Ghosts~3 -
tplink3r1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Are people really getting killed by charge+jabs spam alone?VR16 Templar
VR3 Sorcerer7 -
Ohtimbar✭✭✭✭✭
✭It wouldn’t be much of a toppling charge if didn’t topple the target.forever stuck in combat12 -
Ysbriel✭✭✭✭✭Yeah and whats next? remove the knockback of shield charge? honestly the idea of gap closers not knocking back enemies or stunning them is a very strange thought. Is like expecting never to get knocked down when getting tackled.3 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have a problem with the knock-down being a bit buggy to break. If the cc break was cleaner, like Shield Charge, it'd be fine. Templar needs this skill in their toolkit.1 -
barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Also before anyone claims PvE getting nerfed because of PvP, Toppling is a mostly PvP magplar skill and no real use in PvE what so ever.
Hmmm.... Gap closer / JabJabJab while healing self at the same time. No use in PvE.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
It's amazing how the complainants can always say how 'bad' things are while then saying 'Its no big deal, you won't even notice the nerf'.
If it's not a big deal, and no real use in PvE, I say it fine the way it is.
IMHO5 -
BRogueNZ✭✭✭✭✭2H gap closer is capable of the same acrobatic feats, but at least it freakin works now, it didn't for so long.
Edited by BRogueNZ on December 2, 2019 6:33AM0 -
Artorias24✭✭✭✭✭
✭The ambush from s&b is also a gap close and CC... Want to also nerf this?
Toppling is fine, its the only valid hard CC a magplar got. Javelin is useless if you shoot your target out of the range of your jabs...Edited by Artorias24 on December 2, 2019 8:24AM4 -
furiouslog✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭it's the one useful CC we get, and our dps and sustain suck compared to all other classes on top of it. I use it in vMA all of the time, so it's more than a PvP skill.
Either way, unless you are making a healer, I wouldn't roll a magplar in this environment for PvP or PvE. Toppling is the only thing that lets me be viable in PvP if I actually have to fight, not just heal.3 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭@Reverb
I mainly play magsorc and magblade. Magsorc already lost their iconic stun from frags. Streak is nice though.
And Magblade? They had their primary CC handed to all classes as a better version. They has no AoE snare, no strong snare or any thing other classes cant give. They lost their own Lotus fan snare (as apparently CC on a gapcloser was too OP according to ZOS themselves), lost their bow proc snare, etc. If you are trying to imply that magplar has the worst CC kit, you have never played magblade.
Magplar has a *** of snares so you can't say they lack CC. Snares are also CC skills btw. Also that does not excuse Toppling being over budgeted.
ZOS should remove the knockback from Javelin and force magplars to use an extra gcd and skill slot. I mean they cited that exact reason for nerfed half of magblade skills.
NB has a fear,an immobilizer, a one button remove all damage, and teleport when in trouble. Do you want to trade NB CC skills and escape skills for the templar's?2 -
Abyssmol✭✭✭✭✭Hexquisite wrote: »I would just like to point out that "Jabs" are from Stamplars, not Magplars.
He doesn't know the difference because he doesn't play the class. He also doesn't know that toppling charge misses every time when you play against a runner because of the lag (Xbox)6 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Compare Toppling charge to Empowering chains
Stun, interrupt and off-balance vs 2 uses of empower and major expedition for same cost. Balance of abilities is alright in this game. Leap and Cloak justify that majority of other class abilities of DK and NB are under-powered. /s1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Every person who asks for this to be nerfed should include which of their class cc or root skills they are willing to go without. Because the Templar is the only class without roots, and only has 2 cc skills, javelin which knocks enemies outside of your damage range, and toppling charge.
Eclipse/Unstable Core have a root component.. On top of that templar have very high amount of abilities that have snares as secondary effects.
Edited by Juhasow on December 2, 2019 9:54AM3
