NyassaV wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't you the AD zergling that just tried to parse everyone with heavy attacks and grothdarr. Also used to use knightsalyer and other uncounterable BS.

katorga wrote: »

But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.

Yep. Can confirm.

When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

Very subtle.

• Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
• Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
• Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
• Ward - self explanatory,
• Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

• Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
• Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
• Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
• Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
• Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.

Yep. Can confirm.

When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

Very subtle.

"Better" is a relative term, of course.
I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

Back to the original discussion:
If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:

• Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
• Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
• Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
• Ward - self explanatory,
• Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

So, what are the alternatives?

• Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
• Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
• Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
• Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
• Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.

Koensol wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.

Yep. Can confirm.

When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

Very subtle.

"Better" is a relative term, of course.
I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

Back to the original discussion:
If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:

• Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
• Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
• Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
• Ward - self explanatory,
• Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

So, what are the alternatives?

• Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
• Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
• Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
• Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
• Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.

A bit unrelated to this thread though, but if this is your general stance, why do you create nerf threads? Like, you literally admit to not building optimally, yet feel entitled to ask ZOS to do something about templars?

Luede wrote: »

its rly simple, if u have fun with ur gameplay and build, then play whatever u want to play. but you have no fun, because then you would not have written here. its common to have only a few dmg abilitys on both bars, all other skills are meant to support and survive

ArchMikem wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.

Yep. Can confirm.

When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

Very subtle.

"Better" is a relative term, of course.
I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

Back to the original discussion:
If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:

• Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
• Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
• Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
• Ward - self explanatory,
• Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

So, what are the alternatives?

• Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
• Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
• Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
• Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
• Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.

A bit unrelated to this thread though, but if this is your general stance, why do you create nerf threads? Like, you literally admit to not building optimally, yet feel entitled to ask ZOS to do something about templars?

I made a nerf thread. And yes, everyone is "entitled" to ask something, whether they get the answer they want or not. Just because I'm not running a shield stacking meta chasing Sorc doesn't mean I'm not qualified to realize Templars are being abused these days in PvP, and I haven't been the only person complaining. Even if I spammed Ward and Streak Templars would still wreck cause spamming Jabs outplays spamming ward.

Luede wrote: »

its rly simple, if u have fun with ur gameplay and build, then play whatever u want to play. but you have no fun, because then you would not have written here. its common to have only a few dmg abilitys on both bars, all other skills are meant to support and survive

So people only make threads when they're not having fun? Kay.