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MagSorc gameplay without Ward, Streak etc

ArchMikem
ArchMikem
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Hardened Ward, Streak, and Mages Wrath are all staple stills on a PvP MagSorc's bars. But with the layout i want i just dont have room for any of them, so i took my Sorc in without, and it still wasnt half bad tonight. The ranged burst is amazing even without an execute, but not having a shield or the easy way to disengage has proven harmful. I havent even built for cyrodiil. No crit resist or heavy armor or high recovery. Straight PvE build.

Who else plays PvP on hard mode?
CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • tsaescishoeshiner
    tsaescishoeshiner
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    My no-CP, 53k Max Magicka ~NO impen~ Necropotence + Crafty Alfiq magsorc LOVES the high risk playstyle of the class. I mainly use Crystal Blast which just absolutely dunks people (AND groups) with that much max mag stacked. I much prefer Crystal Blast over the Crystal Frags + Rune Prison playstyle

    Gets a lot of kills in most battlegrounds (but dies almost as much in some matches). I use resto staff backbar for heals & Minor Berserk.

    Playing glass cannon has definitely taught me how to pick fights, line-of-sight, and know when to rush in. But it's extra embarrassing when it doesn't work : p

    Haunting Curse and Mage's Wrath seem like fun things to play around with, but I don't use them. The character is argonian, too, so playing Dunmer/Altmer/Khajiit sounds even more bursty. You don't really need the sustain if you have a jillion magicka lol

    Haven't tried it in Dragonhold, yet. What's your build?
    PC-NA
    in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Well, most probably you opponents don't know that you don't have shields or streak slotted. They just think: "Sorc... damn, I need to cut through 60k magicka of shields and he will just streak away in the middle of process... better I'll focus somebody else" ;)
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Luede wrote: »
    maybe this works if u have a zerg around u. Play this solo and look how it works :)

    I have actually. My very first fight of that night was a 1v1 with a MagKnight at a Kings resource.
    My no-CP, 53k Max Magicka ~NO impen~ Necropotence + Crafty Alfiq magsorc LOVES the high risk playstyle of the class. I mainly use Crystal Blast which just absolutely dunks people (AND groups) with that much max mag stacked. I much prefer Crystal Blast over the Crystal Frags + Rune Prison playstyle

    Gets a lot of kills in most battlegrounds (but dies almost as much in some matches). I use resto staff backbar for heals & Minor Berserk.

    Playing glass cannon has definitely taught me how to pick fights, line-of-sight, and know when to rush in. But it's extra embarrassing when it doesn't work : p

    Haunting Curse and Mage's Wrath seem like fun things to play around with, but I don't use them. The character is argonian, too, so playing Dunmer/Altmer/Khajiit sounds even more bursty. You don't really need the sustain if you have a jillion magicka lol

    Haven't tried it in Dragonhold, yet. What's your build?

    Khajiit Julianos and Mothers Sorrow with Ilambris. Straight PvE build, though i may try Zaans. I have 44k max magic but i need to rely on a few heavies to sustain. Still i can get off a couple bursts in the moment. Awesome for you too, way to stick it to the PvP meta.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • chrightt
    chrightt
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    This patch running without wards at all. Just popping matriarch heals in BGs and power surge is enough for the rest of my sustain. Cyrodiil with CP? Nah, too much lag so just BGs.
  • NyassaV
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    Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't you the AD zergling that just tried to parse everyone with heavy attacks and grothdarr. Also used to use knightsalyer and other uncounterable BS.
    Edited by NyassaV on November 21, 2019 12:43AM
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance Warlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA
    I record things for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    NyassaV wrote: »
    Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't you the AD zergling that just tried to parse everyone with heavy attacks and grothdarr. Also used to use knightsalyer and other uncounterable BS.

    Your sig says PC NA. I'm a Pact main on Xbox NA.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • katorga
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    susmitds wrote: »
    If you want to play magsorcs without shields, streak just play magblade.

    Umm magblade without cloak or shades teleport.

    Shields have not been worth using since they buffed healing two patches ago. The cost benefit is just better on heals right now. But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
  • Major_Lag
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    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.

    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • Major_Lag
    Major_Lag
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • GrigorijMalahevich
    GrigorijMalahevich
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    It is easy to play magsorc without ward, just do the following steps:

    1. Equip medium armor
    2. Equip two hand axe
    3. Slot hurricane
    4. Enjoy your magsorc
    PC/EU 800 CP.
    PvP MagSorc.
    Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
    Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
    Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
    Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq
  • ketsparrowhawk
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    I dunno.. I basically made a magSorc because of Streak and Fury..
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

    Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

    I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

    For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

    You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.
    Edited by pieratsos on November 27, 2019 9:53AM
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

    Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

    I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

    For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

    You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

    You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • Koensol
    Koensol
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

    Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

    I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

    For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

    You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

    You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.
    A bit unrelated to this thread though, but if this is your general stance, why do you create nerf threads? Like, you literally admit to not building optimally, yet feel entitled to ask ZOS to do something about templars?
  • Luede
    Luede
    ✭✭✭✭
    its rly simple, if u have fun with ur gameplay and build, then play whatever u want to play. but you have no fun, because then you would not have written here. its common to have only a few dmg abilitys on both bars, all other skills are meant to support and survive
  • ArchMikem
    ArchMikem
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Koensol wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

    Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

    I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

    For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

    You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

    You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.
    A bit unrelated to this thread though, but if this is your general stance, why do you create nerf threads? Like, you literally admit to not building optimally, yet feel entitled to ask ZOS to do something about templars?

    I made a nerf thread. And yes, everyone is "entitled" to ask something, whether they get the answer they want or not. Just because I'm not running a shield stacking meta chasing Sorc doesn't mean I'm not qualified to realize Templars are being abused these days in PvP, and I haven't been the only person complaining. Even if I spammed Ward and Streak Templars would still wreck cause spamming Jabs outplays spamming ward.
    Luede wrote: »
    its rly simple, if u have fun with ur gameplay and build, then play whatever u want to play. but you have no fun, because then you would not have written here. its common to have only a few dmg abilitys on both bars, all other skills are meant to support and survive

    So people only make threads when they're not having fun? Kay.
    CP1,300+ Master Explorer - AvA August Palatine - Console Peasant
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    NyassaV wrote: »
    Forgive me if I'm wrong but aren't you the AD zergling that just tried to parse everyone with heavy attacks and grothdarr. Also used to use knightsalyer and other uncounterable BS.

    Your sig says PC NA. I'm a Pact main on Xbox NA.

    Ahhhh, sorry then. Must be a similar name. Anyways there is guy who does that and doesn't use a ward and just spams blessing of protection whenever he is in trouble.
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance Warlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA
    I record things for fun and for info
    https://youtube.com/channel/UC0WuLVnsW177WKkKcvNuuYA
  • Luede
    Luede
    ✭✭✭✭
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    ArchMikem wrote: »
    Major_Lag wrote: »
    katorga wrote: »
    But it is crazy to not use core class skills, for any class. You gimp yourself for no reason.
    Yep. Can confirm.

    When I was new to PvP, I had the "bright" idea to not use Streak/BoL and Ward on my magsorc main, because some other abilities X and Y "looked better on paper".
    Spoiler alert: it went... very poorly.

    Now that I (better) know what I'm doing, I look back on that and realize how stupid that was.

    Nowadays, I'd be crazy to even go into PvP without at least slotting Streak/BoL and Dark Deal/Conversion (depending on role).
    As well as slotting some source of Major Expedition, can't open world PvP without that either.

    Very subtle.
    "Better" is a relative term, of course.
    I never claim/claimed anywhere to be a good player, does not matter if in PvP or PvE.
    Don't care about (nor even have the kind of time for) meta chasing or grinding AP for emp.

    Back to the original discussion:
    If there's any way to be at all successful at open-world PvP, on a magicka Sorc build, without kiting & LoS - then I have not found it, nor seen anyone else who has.

    Having said that, magsorc has, IMO, some of the best tools in the game for this:
    • Streak/BoL - mobility with an offensive/defensive component,
    • Boundless - Major Expedition on a resists buff, with free NB detection built in,
    • Dark Conversion/Deal - sustain tool with a burst heal attached,
    • Ward - self explanatory,
    • Pet(s) - portable source of LoS, and a strong instant (not interruptible) burst heal.

    So, what are the alternatives?
    • Streak/BoL: none, really... or play a magblade with Cloak? Even then, Cloak is not reliable as a reset/disengage tool and has a lot of counters.
    • Boundless: you could use RAT instead, and get armor buffs from elsewhere - but then you need to sacrifice a monster set, or other set bonuses, or run an armor pot.
    • Dark Conversion/Deal: Meditate? It locks you in place, and doesn't provide a lingering sustain buff.
    • Ward: use Harness instead? It used to be great, till it took a nerf to the knee (?). Also it won't protect your pet(s), if you use any.
    • Pets: use rocks and trees for LoS. Pick another burst heal.

    Sure, barspace is very tight on a magsorc, and sometimes sacrifices have to be made.
    But not using ANY class-defining abilities? Madness, I say.

    I do use Boundless and Conversion. The latter is a must to keep stamina up i agree, and the former is just carried over from my PvE setup. I just dont have room on "my" bar for things like ward, streak, and wrath/fury. It is hard, but a challenge is good in endgamers eyes yeh?

    It's not about challenge, it's about whether the build is viable or not. Playing without streak and ward while not having any other defence to compensate is just not viable. You simply cannot not have room for those. Those are pretty much the first 2 skills that should go on ur bar when u are trying to make a normal well rounded sorc build

    Boundless Storm and Bound Aegis gives defence in increased resistances as well as passive healing from crit surge. If i need emergency heals i can just LoS and Conversion. If none of that works, then it just wont work and i'll lose. Im not going to join the shield stacker meta.

    Well rounded builds relying on resistances and mitigating dmg in general are maximizing their resistances and crit resist and they also have other layers of defence in their build. You are well below that standard. Major and minor resolve won't do much in ur case.

    I'm not saying u should play the meta but ur build still needs to have some purpose. The sets and skills you are using need to have some sort of synergy.

    For example the othe guy isn't playing the meta either. But he is stacking magicka on a class that is built around max magicka with skills scaling off max magicka and he is incorporating dmg buffs in his build such as minor berserk to push his dmg even further complementing his glass cannon build. He is also getting sustain from that much magicka. So he is not actually playing a well rounded build either but there is a purpose and synergy in his build.

    You are essentially playing a high crit chance build in a game mode where crit multiplier is more important when it comes to dmg on a class that doesn't revolve around crit in general without using any of the core skills of ur class.

    You're coming from a stance of working and playing to win, winning fights in PvP being the only end goal. I personally just go into Cyrodiil to waste time, hence why my characters are PvE builds with very minor PvP tweaks like some Crit Resist or different sets on my Healer. I understand your position but it doesn't really apply to me as I have no drive to do a dedicated build for efficient curb stomping in Cyrodiil. Am I going to lose alot? Yes, I expect that. Am I going to win some? Yeah, I have like 13k defeated players last time I looked at my game stats. Were most of those either ganks, last second kill steals, or unprepared PvP casuals like myself? Most likely. But like I said, I just go into my Campaign to waste time. Also explains why so many have multiple 5 Stars while my Main is just a Prefect.
    A bit unrelated to this thread though, but if this is your general stance, why do you create nerf threads? Like, you literally admit to not building optimally, yet feel entitled to ask ZOS to do something about templars?

    I made a nerf thread. And yes, everyone is "entitled" to ask something, whether they get the answer they want or not. Just because I'm not running a shield stacking meta chasing Sorc doesn't mean I'm not qualified to realize Templars are being abused these days in PvP, and I haven't been the only person complaining. Even if I spammed Ward and Streak Templars would still wreck cause spamming Jabs outplays spamming ward.
    Luede wrote: »
    its rly simple, if u have fun with ur gameplay and build, then play whatever u want to play. but you have no fun, because then you would not have written here. its common to have only a few dmg abilitys on both bars, all other skills are meant to support and survive

    So people only make threads when they're not having fun? Kay.

    yes, ur thread is about the question if this setup is viabel and you would not ask this question if it were viabel, you would just play it.
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