What's Worse? Fake Tank or Fake Healer.
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FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.AgaTheGreat wrote: »AgaTheGreat wrote: »
Hey dude,
You are confusing 'bad' with 'fake', which might both end up having the same negative effects, but is not helpful in the context of the OP's post
People who queue as DDs and do damage are fulfilling the role they stated irrespective of their quality. 5k damage is not 'fake' damage. It's not good, but it's still damage. If you do any damage you cannot be a 'fake' DD.😞
People who queue for PUGs as Tanks or Healers but don't fulfil the requirements of tanking/healing are cheating their group and deserve nothing but contempt. Their only reason for cheating is that they want to do a dungeon fast and they don't give a toss for other players or those players' enjoyment.
If they want to do a dungeon fast, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends.
Again. The roles are tank, healer damage dealer. If the roles were tank damage dealer, healer damage dealer and no role damage dealer, i would agree with you. For normals and vet non dlc you actually might be correct, their damage doesnt matter to finishing the dungeon. It will be completed eventually.
But I am talking vDLC dungeons. Where there is damage requirement. If they cant kill time based adds that spawn, they dont have enough damage, using your words, they are not "fulfilling the role they stated". Therefore are cheaters. They queue for the dungeon expecting to be carried.
Your argument is basically that they deal damage therefore damage dealers. it is like saying that EVERYONE are tanks because they tank the damage that is thrown on them. No mate. Tanks require to agro things that dds cant handle. Dds are required to kill things tanks cant kill.
Again, i aint saying 5k damage aren't damage dealers, they are damage dealers for normal dungeons.but if they queue for a vet dlc expecting carry, they are fake damage dealers. Because their damage DOESN'T hit the requirements the DUNGEON MECHANICS needs to be passed.
If they want to do the dungeon, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends
Very drole Dude, well played. (Although I’d argue that bad dps can get better with practice whereas a fake tank is an arsehat forever).
You can’t random PUG queue just for vDLC (which is a whole different issue that should be addressed). So the likelihood is that any fake tanks/bad DDs you get there probably didn’t want to be there in the first place.
But a DD queuing for a random vet dungeon doesn’t need a dps check. They don’t even need skills. They just need to be able to do damage. And everyone can do damage. Their dps might be rubbish as a result but they are still a DD. And yes, they and you will be shite out of luck if you end up in a DLC dungeon together. But they’ve not deliberately cheated when they wanted vFG1 and got vDoM, they’re just out of their depth through no fault of their own (except for probably having an ESO+ subscription).
A tank queuing for any random dungeon must have some kind of taunt or they can’t function as a tank. And that is a binary thing. You can’t have half a taunt. Or be ‘really really bad at having a taunt’. You’ve either got it or you haven’t. That is what fake tanking is all about. They’re only doing it because they don’t want to wait as a DD. And they are cheating their fellow players because they are refusing to play the role they have selected.
Right back at you mate, i can hold agro on bosses with soft taunt and damage alone, how is that for half taunt for you? Exists. Is it fake tanking? 100% yes. See, not binary. it is 1/4 of a taunt. Not a 0. To be honest, i am pretty sure that if i use skills that has cc implemented in them (for example being a dk and using chains) they have higher agro priority, so i can probably buff it up to 1/2 taunt.
But you have dug your own grave. Dds that only light attack and not use any skills are fake dds, by your argument, because they are required to use damage skills, or is it only tank that is required to use a skill to fulfill his role?
Unless you imply that people function as tanks just by taking damage, then my previous argument is of course, invalid.
Very ingenious, but AFAIK, there isn't a 'soft' taunt. There's a taunt. It's a specific game condition, not an abstract concept like aggro. Only one player can taunt an enemy at a time. So you technically can't have half of it. Holding 'aggro' isn't the same thing (although it may result in a similar effect).
There are only a few skills (and one chaotic f up) that provide a taunt, Puncture and Inner Fire being two. Taunting guarantees that the enemy will target you specifically for 15 seconds. Nothing else does this. And that's the basis of tanking.
Fake tanks won't have a taunt and 99% of them won't even be interested in trying to tank the boss.
DK chains is a soft taunt, or even healing. Look it up on YouTube.
DK chains does not apply the Taunt debuff.... hence not a taunt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49snx_a5ww
2:13 - there are 3 universal taunts available through skill lines.
These are the only things that apply the taunt debuff
so everything else is window dressing and not taunting.
Their effects may be similar to taunting, but they aren't taunting.
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svendf✭✭✭✭Fake TankingSalvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trollsEdited by svendf on November 28, 2019 4:51PM1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingNothing is fake tank, as long as you tank damage once, as long as a mob tapped you once or you stood in stupid, you are a full fledge tank. :Sarcasm:Edited by zvavi on November 28, 2019 4:59PM2 -
AgaTheGreat✭✭✭✭✭
✭@FierceSam you specifically said there's no such thing as soft taunt so I just showed you that there is. That's it.
Very ingenious, but AFAIK, there isn't a 'soft' taunt.Edited by AgaTheGreat on November 28, 2019 6:28PMPS4 EU Aga_The_Grey - retired | PC EU AgaTheGreat0 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingAgaTheGreat wrote: »AgaTheGreat wrote: »
Hey dude,
You are confusing 'bad' with 'fake', which might both end up having the same negative effects, but is not helpful in the context of the OP's post
People who queue as DDs and do damage are fulfilling the role they stated irrespective of their quality. 5k damage is not 'fake' damage. It's not good, but it's still damage. If you do any damage you cannot be a 'fake' DD.😞
People who queue for PUGs as Tanks or Healers but don't fulfil the requirements of tanking/healing are cheating their group and deserve nothing but contempt. Their only reason for cheating is that they want to do a dungeon fast and they don't give a toss for other players or those players' enjoyment.
If they want to do a dungeon fast, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends.
Again. The roles are tank, healer damage dealer. If the roles were tank damage dealer, healer damage dealer and no role damage dealer, i would agree with you. For normals and vet non dlc you actually might be correct, their damage doesnt matter to finishing the dungeon. It will be completed eventually.
But I am talking vDLC dungeons. Where there is damage requirement. If they cant kill time based adds that spawn, they dont have enough damage, using your words, they are not "fulfilling the role they stated". Therefore are cheaters. They queue for the dungeon expecting to be carried.
Your argument is basically that they deal damage therefore damage dealers. it is like saying that EVERYONE are tanks because they tank the damage that is thrown on them. No mate. Tanks require to agro things that dds cant handle. Dds are required to kill things tanks cant kill.
Again, i aint saying 5k damage aren't damage dealers, they are damage dealers for normal dungeons.but if they queue for a vet dlc expecting carry, they are fake damage dealers. Because their damage DOESN'T hit the requirements the DUNGEON MECHANICS needs to be passed.
If they want to do the dungeon, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends
Very drole Dude, well played. (Although I’d argue that bad dps can get better with practice whereas a fake tank is an arsehat forever).
You can’t random PUG queue just for vDLC (which is a whole different issue that should be addressed). So the likelihood is that any fake tanks/bad DDs you get there probably didn’t want to be there in the first place.
But a DD queuing for a random vet dungeon doesn’t need a dps check. They don’t even need skills. They just need to be able to do damage. And everyone can do damage. Their dps might be rubbish as a result but they are still a DD. And yes, they and you will be shite out of luck if you end up in a DLC dungeon together. But they’ve not deliberately cheated when they wanted vFG1 and got vDoM, they’re just out of their depth through no fault of their own (except for probably having an ESO+ subscription).
A tank queuing for any random dungeon must have some kind of taunt or they can’t function as a tank. And that is a binary thing. You can’t have half a taunt. Or be ‘really really bad at having a taunt’. You’ve either got it or you haven’t. That is what fake tanking is all about. They’re only doing it because they don’t want to wait as a DD. And they are cheating their fellow players because they are refusing to play the role they have selected.
Right back at you mate, i can hold agro on bosses with soft taunt and damage alone, how is that for half taunt for you? Exists. Is it fake tanking? 100% yes. See, not binary. it is 1/4 of a taunt. Not a 0. To be honest, i am pretty sure that if i use skills that has cc implemented in them (for example being a dk and using chains) they have higher agro priority, so i can probably buff it up to 1/2 taunt.
But you have dug your own grave. Dds that only light attack and not use any skills are fake dds, by your argument, because they are required to use damage skills, or is it only tank that is required to use a skill to fulfill his role?
Unless you imply that people function as tanks just by taking damage, then my previous argument is of course, invalid.
Very ingenious, but AFAIK, there isn't a 'soft' taunt. There's a taunt. It's a specific game condition, not an abstract concept like aggro. Only one player can taunt an enemy at a time. So you technically can't have half of it. Holding 'aggro' isn't the same thing (although it may result in a similar effect).
There are only a few skills (and one chaotic f up) that provide a taunt, Puncture and Inner Fire being two. Taunting guarantees that the enemy will target you specifically for 15 seconds. Nothing else does this. And that's the basis of tanking.
Fake tanks won't have a taunt and 99% of them won't even be interested in trying to tank the boss.
DK chains is a soft taunt, or even healing. Look it up on YouTube.
DK chains does not apply the Taunt debuff.... hence not a taunthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q49snx_a5ww
2:13 - there are 3 universal taunts available through skill lines.
These are the only things that apply the taunt debuff
so everything else is window dressing and not taunting.
Their effects may be similar to taunting, but they aren't taunting.
To add to this discussion: The problem with soft tanking in ESO is that there's no guarantee to it, as ESO does not have a clear threat system. Are there things that have a tendency to get you aggro? Of course. Sometimes it's healing, most often it's highest (initial) damage output -- which is why dropping a ground DOT into trash is a valid tanking strategy. But it's not a system that can be consistently controlled by the player -- only influenced.2 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.2 -
Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.
DLC dungeons even on normal need. Try Depths of Malatar or Moon Hunter Keep, without one.juhislihis19 wrote: »
Normal dungeons don't need tanks to be honest. I always queu with a fake tank for normal randoms, and never had any problems because as a fake tank, I also heal myself and others and usually do more dps than the "noob dps's". So everyone stays alive and burns the Boss in relative quick fashion.Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
No such thing.
I never fake tank a veteran dungeon though. That's just silly.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingSailor_Palutena wrote: »
DLC dungeons even on normal need. Try Depths of Malatar or Moon Hunter Keep, without one.juhislihis19 wrote: »
Normal dungeons don't need tanks to be honest. I always queu with a fake tank for normal randoms, and never had any problems because as a fake tank, I also heal myself and others and usually do more dps than the "noob dps's". So everyone stays alive and burns the Boss in relative quick fashion.Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
No such thing.
I never fake tank a veteran dungeon though. That's just silly.
@Sailor_Palutena vDoM 4 dd run is possible. Been there done that0 -
Sailor_Palutena✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.Actually I also done it, but the group were all over 600cp. Now try with a fake tank and only you having more than 300CP.0
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Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingSalvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.Edited by Raisin on November 28, 2019 5:20PM4 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.Sailor_Palutena wrote: »
DLC dungeons even on normal need. Try Depths of Malatar or Moon Hunter Keep, without one.juhislihis19 wrote: »
Normal dungeons don't need tanks to be honest. I always queu with a fake tank for normal randoms, and never had any problems because as a fake tank, I also heal myself and others and usually do more dps than the "noob dps's". So everyone stays alive and burns the Boss in relative quick fashion.Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
No such thing.
I never fake tank a veteran dungeon though. That's just silly.
@Sailor_Palutena vDoM 4 dd run is possible. Been there done that
But to clarify, we're talking about random vet PUGs, where a tank might not strictly be necessary, but it is expected.1 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭They as both as bad as each other.Nothing is fake tank, as long as you tank damage once, as long as a mob tapped you once or you stood in stupid, you are a full fledge tank. :Sarcasm:
Anyone who doesn't come equipped with at least one taunt and gear fit for absorbing lots of damage is a "fake tank". I know you're referring to the fake DDs here, but you really have to differentiate there. There are people who just don't know better, they might be casuals who never really do group content and they just kind of end up in a dungeon, trying out the group finder tool, with no real idea what they're in for, or they're simply new. But of course it's highly unlikely then that these people would be queueing for a vet dungeon, so if you get grouped with DDs there that do absolutely no noteworthy damage... well, that's a bit of a different situation. It still applies, though, that there are two groups these people could fall into: They could either just be inexperienced or maybe even plain bad, badly equipped, etc., and don't have anyone to ask for advice or don't want to speak up in chat. These people exist, believe me.
On the other hand they could also just fall into the category of people who don't want to listen and don't really care about their teammates. Those are bad, definitely, no argument about that. But they're also the only group I'd want to label as "fake DDs", since the others could always improve, if someone told them how, or maybe they won't even come back because they realized vet dungeons aren't their thing. They're not "fake", though, whatsoever.This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!0 -
Curious_Death✭✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.JusticeForJilarga wrote: »This One is curious which one people think is worse, which one is more likely to prevent any success.
This One doesn't promote fake tank or fake healing, unless its a 4 person group you put together and everyone is OK with it.
FAKE DD's doing 10k each one ! THEY RE WORSE !1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingIf you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tataCassandraGemini wrote: »Nothing is fake tank, as long as you tank damage once, as long as a mob tapped you once or you stood in stupid, you are a full fledge tank. :Sarcasm:
Anyone who doesn't come equipped with at least one taunt and gear fit for absorbing lots of damage is a "fake tank". I know you're referring to the fake DDs here, but you really have to differentiate there. There are people who just don't know better, they might be casuals who never really do group content and they just kind of end up in a dungeon, trying out the group finder tool, with no real idea what they're in for, or they're simply new. But of course it's highly unlikely then that these people would be queueing for a vet dungeon, so if you get grouped with DDs there that do absolutely no noteworthy damage... well, that's a bit of a different situation. It still applies, though, that there are two groups these people could fall into: They could either just be inexperienced or maybe even plain bad, badly equipped, etc., and don't have anyone to ask for advice or don't want to speak up in chat. These people exist, believe me.
On the other hand they could also just fall into the category of people who don't want to listen and don't really care about their teammates. Those are bad, definitely, no argument about that. But they're also the only group I'd want to label as "fake DDs", since the others could always improve, if someone told them how, or maybe they won't even come back because they realized vet dungeons aren't their thing. They're not "fake", though, whatsoever.
I had a friend that queued as tank because she was taking damage while being a stamina dd in melee range. She just did know better. Does it make her a non fake tank? Neh mate. It was fake tanking, breaking the law while not knowing it doesn't make you not break it.
Again guys, you are being hypothetical, tell me why, why you have requirements for healers and tanks, while damage dealers must "exist" in order to not being fake damage dealers.0 -
CassandraGemini✭✭✭✭✭
✭They as both as bad as each other.If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tataCassandraGemini wrote: »Nothing is fake tank, as long as you tank damage once, as long as a mob tapped you once or you stood in stupid, you are a full fledge tank. :Sarcasm:
Anyone who doesn't come equipped with at least one taunt and gear fit for absorbing lots of damage is a "fake tank". I know you're referring to the fake DDs here, but you really have to differentiate there. There are people who just don't know better, they might be casuals who never really do group content and they just kind of end up in a dungeon, trying out the group finder tool, with no real idea what they're in for, or they're simply new. But of course it's highly unlikely then that these people would be queueing for a vet dungeon, so if you get grouped with DDs there that do absolutely no noteworthy damage... well, that's a bit of a different situation. It still applies, though, that there are two groups these people could fall into: They could either just be inexperienced or maybe even plain bad, badly equipped, etc., and don't have anyone to ask for advice or don't want to speak up in chat. These people exist, believe me.
On the other hand they could also just fall into the category of people who don't want to listen and don't really care about their teammates. Those are bad, definitely, no argument about that. But they're also the only group I'd want to label as "fake DDs", since the others could always improve, if someone told them how, or maybe they won't even come back because they realized vet dungeons aren't their thing. They're not "fake", though, whatsoever.
Again guys, you are being hypothetical, tell me why, why you have requirements for healers and tanks, while damage dealers must "exist" in order to not being fake damage dealers.
Mostly because when you just use the group finder tool without really knowing what that's all about, you'll automatically queue as a dd, it's the predetermined setup. But queueing as tank or heal is always a choice.This poor little Bosmer stealth passive had passionate friends and a big loving family!1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
Even tanks and healers do some "guaranteed damage" just by playing their intended role. Around 4-5k for tanks and 10k or so for healers. If a DD is not able to break 5k he can be replaced by another tank with no detriment to the group (he does the same damage but brings more survivability to the field). This is definitely a fake DD.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingCassandraGemini wrote: »If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tataCassandraGemini wrote: »Nothing is fake tank, as long as you tank damage once, as long as a mob tapped you once or you stood in stupid, you are a full fledge tank. :Sarcasm:
Anyone who doesn't come equipped with at least one taunt and gear fit for absorbing lots of damage is a "fake tank". I know you're referring to the fake DDs here, but you really have to differentiate there. There are people who just don't know better, they might be casuals who never really do group content and they just kind of end up in a dungeon, trying out the group finder tool, with no real idea what they're in for, or they're simply new. But of course it's highly unlikely then that these people would be queueing for a vet dungeon, so if you get grouped with DDs there that do absolutely no noteworthy damage... well, that's a bit of a different situation. It still applies, though, that there are two groups these people could fall into: They could either just be inexperienced or maybe even plain bad, badly equipped, etc., and don't have anyone to ask for advice or don't want to speak up in chat. These people exist, believe me.
On the other hand they could also just fall into the category of people who don't want to listen and don't really care about their teammates. Those are bad, definitely, no argument about that. But they're also the only group I'd want to label as "fake DDs", since the others could always improve, if someone told them how, or maybe they won't even come back because they realized vet dungeons aren't their thing. They're not "fake", though, whatsoever.
Again guys, you are being hypothetical, tell me why, why you have requirements for healers and tanks, while damage dealers must "exist" in order to not being fake damage dealers.
Mostly because when you just use the group finder tool without really knowing what that's all about, you'll automatically queue as a dd, it's the predetermined setup. But queueing as tank or heal is always a choice.
Neh mate, queuing at ALL is a choice. YOU CHOSE TO QUEUE as a damage dealer if you dont change role. If there were more tanks than damage dealers, default for queue would have been tanks.1 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Fake TankingThere are few if any nomal dungeons where you need a proper tank so a DD with a taunt that can shield and/or heal can serve as a tank of sorts. All 4 man content is doable w/o healer but no veteran DLC dungeon or 4 man arena is doable without a tank. So the answer is pretty obvious. Normal trials are perfectly doable with 1 tank 1 healer and 10 DDs. vHRC and vAA as well, the latter even HM.
Actually if I PUG a dungeon I'd rather have a DD queued as healer since most people who queue as DDs can barely get 20K. In some DLC 70-80K group DPS is required to pass certain mechanics but 50K will get you only wipe after wipe. I usually try to stay healer when I queue as such but it that happens I will swap to DD setup and keep only 1-2 heals on my bar. There is nothing that prevents you from healing quite well with DD attribute & CP setup so I just change the gear straight away.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingIf you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tata
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just on edge because s lot of people are disagreeing with you, and that you didn't really mean to be purposefully obtuse. Please don't be passive aggressive @ me when we both know you're completely misconstruing what I said to suit your own agenda.
Anyway I said that a DD who neglects focusing on their duty to do damage to heal instead would be a fake DD. Of course if you're saying your tank neglects to tank to heal, you're a fake tank? And if your healer neglects their duty to heal and does damage instead, they are a fake heal. If your main chooses to heal over doing damage despite queuing as DD, it's a fake DD. It's not very difficult. If you do not fulfill your own role and do another one instead, you queued as a 'fake (role)'.
(Just in case it needs to be said, this also addresses your last point. I didn't say 'barely attacking makes you a fake DD', I said 'barely attacking because you're focusing on healing instead makes you a fake DD'.)2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They as both as bad as each other.Both are equally ____ moves in my opinion.
Yeah, some groups don't need healers. But some groups don't need tanks either. So that's a non sequitur.
You should play as the role you queued up for. Simple as that. Lying about what your combat role is to speed up your queue times by cutting in front of others is stingy. It's also not fair to the group - which signed on under the premise an actual healer or tank would be on board.
Players who want to form their own unique party set ups should just make their own groups.5 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingSalvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
Even tanks and healers do some "guaranteed damage" just by playing their intended role. Around 4-5k for tanks and 10k or so for healers. If a DD is not able to break 5k he can be replaced by another tank with no detriment to the group (he does the same damage but brings more survivability to the field). This is definitely a fake DD.
You're missing the point. It's a *** DD, not a fake. Their intentions is to do damage. They did not queue themselves into the wrong role (just shouldn't have queued at all).They know what role they chose and are trying to do exactly that. They are really bad at it. The fact that 90% of players of any role could do it better than them doesn't change that.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingThere are few if any nomal dungeons where you need a proper tank so a DD with a taunt that can shield and/or heal can serve as a tank of sorts. All 4 man content is doable w/o healer but no veteran DLC dungeon or 4 man arena is doable without a tank. So the answer is pretty obvious. Normal trials are perfectly doable with 1 tank 1 healer and 10 DDs. vHRC and vAA as well, the latter even HM.
Actually if I PUG a dungeon I'd rather have a DD queued as healer since most people who queue as DDs can barely get 20K. In some DLC 70-80K group DPS is required to pass certain mechanics but 50K will get you only wipe after wipe. I usually try to stay healer when I queue as such but it that happens I will swap to DD setup and keep only 1-2 heals on my bar. There is nothing that prevents you from healing quite well with DD attribute & CP setup so I just change the gear straight away.
Wrong on all accounts, vet dlc can be done with 4 dds. Other than that, all of them can be passed with 50k group dps. Dont mislead people.If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tata
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just on edge because s lot of people are disagreeing with you, and that you didn't really mean to be purposefully obtuse. Please don't be passive aggressive @ me when we both know you're completely misconstruing what I said to suit your own agenda.
Anyway I said that a DD who neglects focusing on their duty to do damage to heal instead would be a fake DD. Of course if you're saying your tank neglects to tank to heal, you're a fake tank? And if your healer neglects their duty to heal and does damage instead, they are a fake heal. If your main chooses to heal over doing damage despite queuing as DD, it's a fake DD. It's not very difficult. If you do not fulfill your own role and do another one instead, you queued as a 'fake (role)'.
(Just in case it needs to be said, this also addresses your last point. I didn't say 'barely attacking makes you a fake DD', I said 'barely attacking because you're focusing on healing instead makes you a fake DD'.)
So to get your point, you are saying that as long as you try to fulfill your role, you are not a fake?0 -
Waynerx8✭✭✭✭Tanks or so called one's that run around pulling everything away from my DOT's I have just put down, drives me mad.1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
Even tanks and healers do some "guaranteed damage" just by playing their intended role. Around 4-5k for tanks and 10k or so for healers. If a DD is not able to break 5k he can be replaced by another tank with no detriment to the group (he does the same damage but brings more survivability to the field). This is definitely a fake DD.
You're missing the point. It's a *** DD, not a fake. Their intentions is to do damage. They did not queue themselves into the wrong role (just shouldn't have queued at all).They know what role they chose and are trying to do exactly that. They are really bad at it. The fact that 90% of players of any role could do it better than them doesn't change that.
To me their intent is irrelevant. They are not performing their role, thus they are a "fake".2 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingIf you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tata
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just on edge because s lot of people are disagreeing with you, and that you didn't really mean to be purposefully obtuse. Please don't be passive aggressive @ me when we both know you're completely misconstruing what I said to suit your own agenda.
Anyway I said that a DD who neglects focusing on their duty to do damage to heal instead would be a fake DD. Of course if you're saying your tank neglects to tank to heal, you're a fake tank? And if your healer neglects their duty to heal and does damage instead, they are a fake heal. If your main chooses to heal over doing damage despite queuing as DD, it's a fake DD. It's not very difficult. If you do not fulfill your own role and do another one instead, you queued as a 'fake (role)'.
(Just in case it needs to be said, this also addresses your last point. I didn't say 'barely attacking makes you a fake DD', I said 'barely attacking because you're focusing on healing instead makes you a fake DD'.)
So to get your point, you are saying that as long as you try to fulfill your role, you are not a fake?
Pretty much, yes, with the caveat that they also have to know what their role entails. So 'I thought DPS means I heal people and light attack and that's what I'm doing' or 'I thought having heavy armor and high health but I'm not taunting anything is tanking and I'm trying really hard to do this', while not the same as straight-up queuing as the wrong role on purpose, are still things that would qualify as fake to me. Fake comes with the connotation of deception, and being something else instead. A bad DD, if they're not fulfilling another role, isn't something else.
In the end, it's difficult to compare the roles on this because they function differently. DPS has a much, much higher ceiling to hit. A tank and heal will much sooner fulfill the bare minimum requirement... But technically, the only bare minimum for a DD is that it's their job to kill the thing. The fact that they can kill it much faster is a concept you can't apply to tanking and healing. If a healer does the bare minimum and keeps you alive, that's it.2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Fake TankingIf you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
you just called all my tanks fake tanks because they heal, and my healers fake healers cause they deal damage, and my main(up till nerfweyr), which is a dd, fake dd because he heals. Also you agreed that "barely attacking" makes you unqualified as a damage dealer, tata
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're just on edge because s lot of people are disagreeing with you, and that you didn't really mean to be purposefully obtuse. Please don't be passive aggressive @ me when we both know you're completely misconstruing what I said to suit your own agenda.
Anyway I said that a DD who neglects focusing on their duty to do damage to heal instead would be a fake DD. Of course if you're saying your tank neglects to tank to heal, you're a fake tank? And if your healer neglects their duty to heal and does damage instead, they are a fake heal. If your main chooses to heal over doing damage despite queuing as DD, it's a fake DD. It's not very difficult. If you do not fulfill your own role and do another one instead, you queued as a 'fake (role)'.
(Just in case it needs to be said, this also addresses your last point. I didn't say 'barely attacking makes you a fake DD', I said 'barely attacking because you're focusing on healing instead makes you a fake DD'.)
So to get your point, you are saying that as long as you try to fulfill your role, you are not a fake?
Pretty much, yes, with the caveat that they also have to know what their role entails. So 'I thought DPS means I heal people and light attack and that's what I'm doing' or 'I thought having heavy armor and high health but I'm not taunting anything is tanking and I'm trying really hard to do this', while not the same as straight-up queuing as the wrong role on purpose, are still things that would qualify as fake to me. Fake comes with the connotation of deception, and being something else instead. A bad DD, if they're not fulfilling another role, isn't something else.
In the end, it's difficult to compare the roles on this because they function differently. DPS has a much, much higher ceiling to hit. A tank and heal will much sooner fulfill the bare minimum requirement... But technically, the only bare minimum for a DD is that it's their job to kill the thing. The fact that they can kill it much faster is a concept you can't apply to tanking and healing. If a healer does the bare minimum and keeps you alive, that's it.
Uh, so you agree that they have to be able to kill things. What about vet dlc dungeons, where there are dps checks? Dds that dont qualify damage wise are not fake? They have bare minimum damage they need tp provide so the group wont wipe.Edited by zvavi on November 28, 2019 6:07PM1 -
Raisin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fake TankingSalvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
Even tanks and healers do some "guaranteed damage" just by playing their intended role. Around 4-5k for tanks and 10k or so for healers. If a DD is not able to break 5k he can be replaced by another tank with no detriment to the group (he does the same damage but brings more survivability to the field). This is definitely a fake DD.
You're missing the point. It's a *** DD, not a fake. Their intentions is to do damage. They did not queue themselves into the wrong role (just shouldn't have queued at all).They know what role they chose and are trying to do exactly that. They are really bad at it. The fact that 90% of players of any role could do it better than them doesn't change that.
To me their intent is irrelevant. They are not performing their role, thus they are a "fake".
Exactly! A fake DD would be one that doesn't perform their job, which is to deal damage. And a bad DD is still fulfilling their role, as they're doing damage to enemies to kill them. Slowly. Painstakingly, for the rest of the group.
The only situations where this does not apply is in a fight that is a legitimate DPS check, which ESO has very few of. And at that point, given that a DD can be capable of clearing any other content and this is a specific challenge that the game has not demanded them to fulfill in most content, it can't really apply to their general status as a DD. 1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Salvas_Aren wrote: »How about two fake DDs?
Especially when my tank+heal teamup is not fake.
Nothing is fake dd, it do not exist only in the head of a "fake tank". DD=damage dealer. So! Mr Eienstein if a player deals 200 dps it`s still damage.
You choose to enter que as a tank and not a dd as you should. Bad attitude rude against other player`s and = to trolls
Cool, I'll slot Inner Fire and use it once on the first trash pack. See, now I'm not a fake tank. I just wasn't made aware that you have to taunt more than once.
If you legitimately run into DDs that only attack the first enemy once and then wait, then sure. They are fake DDs. Hell let's be generous, you run into a DD that only attacks any enemy once and you may call them a fake DD. But if they continuously attack anything, no matter how low the dps, to kill it, then they are only comparable to you also continuing to taunt things.
They're horrible DDs and no one expects you to tolerate them, but they are not the same as a DD purposefully queuing as Tank or Heal to skip queue wait. They're also not the same as someone who somehow doesn't understand what the purpose of a tank is and comes in as a DD for that reason, because they understand that their job is to kill the thing. They just can't kill the thing.
A fake DD for me would be someone that doesn't understand that it's not their role to tank or heal. So a DD with a resto staff using several resto skills (or just generally feeling responsible to flash heal anyone who takes minor damage) and barely attacking would qualify. Or a DD in sword and board using puncture. Obviously a tank or heal purposefully queuing as DD qualifies too, but I don't think that's very common.
Even tanks and healers do some "guaranteed damage" just by playing their intended role. Around 4-5k for tanks and 10k or so for healers. If a DD is not able to break 5k he can be replaced by another tank with no detriment to the group (he does the same damage but brings more survivability to the field). This is definitely a fake DD.
You're missing the point. It's a *** DD, not a fake. Their intentions is to do damage. They did not queue themselves into the wrong role (just shouldn't have queued at all).They know what role they chose and are trying to do exactly that. They are really bad at it. The fact that 90% of players of any role could do it better than them doesn't change that.
To me their intent is irrelevant. They are not performing their role, thus they are a "fake".
Exactly! A fake DD would be one that doesn't perform their job, which is to deal damage. And a bad DD is still fulfilling their role, as they're doing damage to enemies to kill them. Slowly. Painstakingly, for the rest of the group. The only situations where this does not apply is in a fight that is a legitimate DPS check, which ESO has very few of. And at that point, given that a DD can be capable of clearing any other content and this is a specific challenge that the game has not demanded them to fulfill in most content, it can't really apply to their general status as a DD.
We are going in circles now. If a player of a different role deals more damage than a "DD" while performing their intended role, the "DD" is not actually performing theirs.1 -
Salvas_Aren✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rasande_Robin wrote: »Fake DD is the worst...
No such thing.. everyone who attacks does damage. There is no dps requirement. The role just requires damage.
You mean ‘low dps’? Why don’t you just say so?
Because we can.
When a DD does less damage than full tank and full heal, he is fake, since DDs are expected to do more damage than full tanks and full heals.
Or try to keep it this way: It's a failed DD, since burning down the boss in reasonable time is the requirement. No difference to a tank who fails at debuffing the boss, keeping his attention or stop him from moving.
See? No fake tanks at all, just failed tanks.
1