FierceSam wrote: »

Hey dude,

You are confusing 'bad' with 'fake', which might both end up having the same negative effects, but is not helpful in the context of the OP's post

People who queue as DDs and do damage are fulfilling the role they stated irrespective of their quality. 5k damage is not 'fake' damage. It's not good, but it's still damage. If you do any damage you cannot be a 'fake' DD.😞

People who queue for PUGs as Tanks or Healers but don't fulfil the requirements of tanking/healing are cheating their group and deserve nothing but contempt. Their only reason for cheating is that they want to do a dungeon fast and they don't give a toss for other players or those players' enjoyment.

If they want to do a dungeon fast, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends.

Again. The roles are "tank", "healer" and "damage dealer". If the roles were "tank damage dealer", "healer damage dealer" and "no role damage dealer", i would agree with you. For normals and vet non dlc you actually might be correct, their damage doesnt matter to finishing the dungeon. It will be completed eventually.
But I am talking vDLC dungeons. Where there is damage requirement. If they cant kill time based adds that spawn, they dont have enough damage, using your words, they are not "fulfilling the role they stated". Therefore are cheaters. They queue for the dungeon expecting to be carried.

Your argument is basically that they deal damage therefore damage dealers. it is like saying that EVERYONE are tanks because they tank the damage that is thrown on them. No mate. Tanks require to agro things that dds cant handle. Dds are required to kill things tanks cant kill.

Again, i aint saying 5k damage aren't damage dealers, they are damage dealers for normal dungeons.but if they queue for a vet dlc expecting carry, they are fake damage dealers. Because their damage DOESN'T hit the requirements the DUNGEON MECHANICS needs to be passed.

If they want to do the dungeon, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

You write as if people queue for vet dlc dungeons as fake tanks. I've never seen that happen.

I would beg to differ....

RaveRaveRaveRave wrote: »

This isn't even a question. Fake tanks are a million times worse than a fake healer. I welcome fake healers. I never play with healers...would much rather have 3 DPS. Most vet dungeons are impossible with a fake tank though.

Wrong. Lol. Only the dlc dungeons are impossible with a fake tank, and not even all of them.

When I run with my friends, we routinely 3 dps/1 heals a dungeon or straight up three-man the dungeons.

FierceSam wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Hey dude,

You are confusing 'bad' with 'fake', which might both end up having the same negative effects, but is not helpful in the context of the OP's post

People who queue as DDs and do damage are fulfilling the role they stated irrespective of their quality. 5k damage is not 'fake' damage. It's not good, but it's still damage. If you do any damage you cannot be a 'fake' DD.😞

People who queue for PUGs as Tanks or Healers but don't fulfil the requirements of tanking/healing are cheating their group and deserve nothing but contempt. Their only reason for cheating is that they want to do a dungeon fast and they don't give a toss for other players or those players' enjoyment.

If they want to do a dungeon fast, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends.

Again. The roles are tank, healer damage dealer. If the roles were tank damage dealer, healer damage dealer and no role damage dealer, i would agree with you. For normals and vet non dlc you actually might be correct, their damage doesnt matter to finishing the dungeon. It will be completed eventually.
But I am talking vDLC dungeons. Where there is damage requirement. If they cant kill time based adds that spawn, they dont have enough damage, using your words, they are not "fulfilling the role they stated". Therefore are cheaters. They queue for the dungeon expecting to be carried.

Your argument is basically that they deal damage therefore damage dealers. it is like saying that EVERYONE are tanks because they tank the damage that is thrown on them. No mate. Tanks require to agro things that dds cant handle. Dds are required to kill things tanks cant kill.

Again, i aint saying 5k damage aren't damage dealers, they are damage dealers for normal dungeons.but if they queue for a vet dlc expecting carry, they are fake damage dealers. Because their damage DOESN'T hit the requirements the DUNGEON MECHANICS needs to be passed.

If they want to do the dungeon, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends

Very drole Dude, well played. (Although I’d argue that bad dps can get better with practice whereas a fake tank is an arsehat forever).

You can’t random PUG queue just for vDLC (which is a whole different issue that should be addressed). So the likelihood is that any fake tanks/bad DDs you get there probably didn’t want to be there in the first place.

But a DD queuing for a random vet dungeon doesn’t need a dps check. They don’t even need skills. They just need to be able to do damage. And everyone can do damage. Their dps might be rubbish as a result but they are still a DD. And yes, they and you will be shite out of luck if you end up in a DLC dungeon together. But they’ve not deliberately cheated when they wanted vFG1 and got vDoM, they’re just out of their depth through no fault of their own (except for probably having an ESO+ subscription).

A tank queuing for any random dungeon must have some kind of taunt or they can’t function as a tank. And that is a binary thing. You can’t have half a taunt. Or be ‘really really bad at having a taunt’. You’ve either got it or you haven’t. That is what fake tanking is all about. They’re only doing it because they don’t want to wait as a DD. And they are cheating their fellow players because they are refusing to play the role they have selected.

Right back at you mate, i can hold agro on bosses with soft taunt and damage alone, how is that for half taunt for you? Exists. Is it fake tanking? 100% yes. See, not binary. it is 1/4 of a taunt. Not a 0. To be honest, i am pretty sure that if i use skills that has cc implemented in them (for example being a dk and using chains) they have higher agro priority, so i can probably buff it up to 1/2 taunt.

But you have dug your own grave. Dds that only light attack and not use any skills are fake dds, by your argument, because they are required to use damage skills, or is it only tank that is required to use a skill to fulfill his role?

Unless you imply that people function as tanks just by taking damage, then my previous argument is of course, invalid.

With a completely random group both are equally as bad and there really is no justification. People should vote kick them and move on.

zvavi wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Hey dude,

You are confusing 'bad' with 'fake', which might both end up having the same negative effects, but is not helpful in the context of the OP's post

People who queue as DDs and do damage are fulfilling the role they stated irrespective of their quality. 5k damage is not 'fake' damage. It's not good, but it's still damage. If you do any damage you cannot be a 'fake' DD.😞

People who queue for PUGs as Tanks or Healers but don't fulfil the requirements of tanking/healing are cheating their group and deserve nothing but contempt. Their only reason for cheating is that they want to do a dungeon fast and they don't give a toss for other players or those players' enjoyment.

If they want to do a dungeon fast, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends.

Again. The roles are tank, healer damage dealer. If the roles were tank damage dealer, healer damage dealer and no role damage dealer, i would agree with you. For normals and vet non dlc you actually might be correct, their damage doesnt matter to finishing the dungeon. It will be completed eventually.
But I am talking vDLC dungeons. Where there is damage requirement. If they cant kill time based adds that spawn, they dont have enough damage, using your words, they are not "fulfilling the role they stated". Therefore are cheaters. They queue for the dungeon expecting to be carried.

Your argument is basically that they deal damage therefore damage dealers. it is like saying that EVERYONE are tanks because they tank the damage that is thrown on them. No mate. Tanks require to agro things that dds cant handle. Dds are required to kill things tanks cant kill.

Again, i aint saying 5k damage aren't damage dealers, they are damage dealers for normal dungeons.but if they queue for a vet dlc expecting carry, they are fake damage dealers. Because their damage DOESN'T hit the requirements the DUNGEON MECHANICS needs to be passed.

If they want to do the dungeon, they should simply find 3 friends and do it their way and then everyone's happy. Their issue is they don't have 3 friends and they'd rather cheat you than make friends

Very drole Dude, well played. (Although I’d argue that bad dps can get better with practice whereas a fake tank is an arsehat forever).

You can’t random PUG queue just for vDLC (which is a whole different issue that should be addressed). So the likelihood is that any fake tanks/bad DDs you get there probably didn’t want to be there in the first place.

But a DD queuing for a random vet dungeon doesn’t need a dps check. They don’t even need skills. They just need to be able to do damage. And everyone can do damage. Their dps might be rubbish as a result but they are still a DD. And yes, they and you will be shite out of luck if you end up in a DLC dungeon together. But they’ve not deliberately cheated when they wanted vFG1 and got vDoM, they’re just out of their depth through no fault of their own (except for probably having an ESO+ subscription).

A tank queuing for any random dungeon must have some kind of taunt or they can’t function as a tank. And that is a binary thing. You can’t have half a taunt. Or be ‘really really bad at having a taunt’. You’ve either got it or you haven’t. That is what fake tanking is all about. They’re only doing it because they don’t want to wait as a DD. And they are cheating their fellow players because they are refusing to play the role they have selected.

Right back at you mate, i can hold agro on bosses with soft taunt and damage alone, how is that for half taunt for you? Exists. Is it fake tanking? 100% yes. See, not binary. it is 1/4 of a taunt. Not a 0. To be honest, i am pretty sure that if i use skills that has cc implemented in them (for example being a dk and using chains) they have higher agro priority, so i can probably buff it up to 1/2 taunt.

But you have dug your own grave. Dds that only light attack and not use any skills are fake dds, by your argument, because they are required to use damage skills, or is it only tank that is required to use a skill to fulfill his role?

Unless you imply that people function as tanks just by taking damage, then my previous argument is of course, invalid.

Very ingenious, but AFAIK, there isn't a 'soft' taunt. There's a taunt. It's a specific game condition, not an abstract concept like aggro. Only one player can taunt an enemy at a time. So you technically can't have half of it. Holding 'aggro' isn't the same thing (although it may result in a similar effect).

There are only a few skills (and one chaotic f up) that provide a taunt, Puncture and Inner Fire being two. Taunting guarantees that the enemy will target you specifically for 15 seconds. Nothing else does this. And that's the basis of tanking.

Fake tanks won't have a taunt and 99% of them won't even be interested in trying to tank the boss.

You guys are immensely mistaken. You decide, yes, decide that healers and tanks have specific things they HAVE to do, while damage dealers, by your standards of damage, can just come in, put a godamn book on their mouse, and heavy attack the boss the whole fight, and still say "they are damage dealers". It is being hypothetical. You push *** tons of responsibility on healers and tanks. This is the exact reason people that just don't fulfill ANY role, go as damage dealers, and think it is fine. If you are not ready for GROUP content, go ask for help, in the MMO, and if you dont plan on fulfilling the role, where the group needs you to do it, be it heal damage or tank, dont queue.

zvavi wrote: »

You guys are immensely mistaken. You decide, yes, decide that healers and tanks have specific things they HAVE to do, while damage dealers, by your standards of damage, can just come in, put a godamn book on their mouse, and heavy attack the boss the whole fight, and still say "they are damage dealers". It is being hypothetical. You push *** tons of responsibility on healers and tanks. This is the exact reason people that just don't fulfill ANY role, go as damage dealers, and think it is fine. If you are not ready for GROUP content, go ask for help, in the MMO, and if you dont plan on fulfilling the role, where the group needs you to do it, be it heal damage or tank, dont queue.

That is technically, exactly correct.

The assumption is that 'everyone' is a DD, but that being a Tank or a Healer requires certain extra skills (and talent) to play effectively. The Tank role, in particular, is more defined by ZOS and the gameplay than by players. Because of this far, far fewer players play as either a Tank or a Healer.

This means that DDs invariably have to wait longer in random dungeon queues.

Hence some arsehats try to cheat the group finder random dungeon function by pretending they are fulfilling the roles of Tank or Healer, knowing they have no intention or capability of doing so. They do this to try to get a shorter queue time. That's called being a cheating arsehat.

And that's what this thread is about.

(There's also a separate, very strong argument that says players should be able to be selective about the range of random dungeons they could get, especially with random vet dungeons. Players who are more than capable of playing vFG1 may not be capable of doing any vDLC content, yet they could be thrown in there... with potentially catastrophic results. Interesting discussion, but not really what this thread is about).

FierceSam wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

You guys are immensely mistaken. You decide, yes, decide that healers and tanks have specific things they HAVE to do, while damage dealers, by your standards of damage, can just come in, put a godamn book on their mouse, and heavy attack the boss the whole fight, and still say "they are damage dealers". It is being hypothetical. You push *** tons of responsibility on healers and tanks. This is the exact reason people that just don't fulfill ANY role, go as damage dealers, and think it is fine. If you are not ready for GROUP content, go ask for help, in the MMO, and if you dont plan on fulfilling the role, where the group needs you to do it, be it heal damage or tank, dont queue.

That is technically, exactly correct.

The assumption is that 'everyone' is a DD, but that being a Tank or a Healer requires certain extra skills (and talent) to play effectively. The Tank role, in particular, is more defined by ZOS and the gameplay than by players. Because of this far, far fewer players play as either a Tank or a Healer.

This means that DDs invariably have to wait longer in random dungeon queues.

Hence some arsehats try to cheat the group finder random dungeon function by pretending they are fulfilling the roles of Tank or Healer, knowing they have no intention or capability of doing so. They do this to try to get a shorter queue time. That's called being a cheating arsehat.

And that's what this thread is about.

(There's also a separate, very strong argument that says players should be able to be selective about the range of random dungeons they could get, especially with random vet dungeons. Players who are more than capable of playing vFG1 may not be capable of doing any vDLC content, yet they could be thrown in there... with potentially catastrophic results. Interesting discussion, but not really what this thread is about).

At least you agree with me that you are being hypothetical :eye_roll:
I mean, ye, sure, i will queue to a dungeon as a dd, light attack the first mob every mob pack. Light attack every boss once, then sit out the whole dungeon, i hit the requirements of being a damage dealer...