Maintenance for the week of September 8:
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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
IMPORTANT: Heads up for all you who post videos on YouTube!
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regime211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »I personally have marked all my videos as "not targeted towards kids". If I get served I am happy to show them my analytics page, which has 99.5% of my traffic as being 18 years or older.
If they would like to argue that my channel is "kid-targeted" while my viewers are comprised of less than 1% people aged 13 or younger, they are free to do so; they are also free to admit they are following no conceivable form of logic.
Money talks they will still sue0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ydrisselle wrote: »This should be pinned.
I agree it is important but it is not directly ESO related.
Also, ESO is rated Mature (17+) in USA and Adult (18+) in EU which make be an issue when streaming gameplay. IDK but as SJ stated on the first page they mark all their vids as not targeted towards kids.0 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭You have some strange laws there on the other side of the ocean. If you are looking for good food or freedom, we have it in Europe. You're welcome here, but the servers not so good though.
Also, thanks for sharing this. It's shocking a law like this become reality in a small part of the western world. It fits a totalitarian state.5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just read your mails guys, it really doesn't hurt, YouTube was sending this info.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saucy_Jack wrote: »If they would like to argue that my channel is "kid-targeted" while my viewers are comprised of less than 1% people aged 13 or younger, they are free to do so; they are also free to admit they are following no conceivable form of logic.
That never stopped them before.
Like many laws and regulations, the big sticking point here is who gets to define what, which more often than not ultimately comes down to some faceless bureaucrat's whim. Many content creators have faced this problem already where their videos or channels have actions taken against them. The creator petitions Youtube and specifically asks what was wrong with it and many times they just get some vague non-answer. Or in some instances, full and complete acknowledgement that the creator didn't violate any rules at all, but somebody didn't like what they said so the punishment stands.
In the case of COPPA, I don't think it's going to be at all surprising to see many instances where channels and videos, especially those about video games, are going to be labeled as kid targeted by the powers that be regardless of the game rating."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭so, guys. GUYS. marking your videos as "not for children" will NOT protect you. on the contrary - it will potentially get you into MORE trouble. because its not up to YOU to decide whether your content is ultimately child directed - its up to FTC, so if they decide that your video game videos are child appealing? they therefore are child directed and you are in violation.
THIS is why current wording of COPPA is so terrifying and why so many channels are extremely concerned and its not just gaming. vast VAST majority of crafting channels and a good chunk of art community on youtube as well as just about every family friendly channel is concerned and for a good reason.
i personaly made all of my videos private. not unlisted. private. for now. the specific wording that people right now are trying to get FTC to change (because there is still in theory time to change it) is the wording that states that child appealing content is the same as child directed content. and youtube/google is not some blameless entity that people think it is, with big bad FTC bullying it.
1. THEY are the ones that flagrantly violated COPPA law for years, before getting caught. and
2. instead of creating a system that actualy allows people to tag their content for general audience, but NOT directed at children and adding an age gate that requires you to be logged in to watch a video (kinda like the age gate ESO website has, in case you ever tried to open any news articles without being logged in, you would see what it looks like) - they instead washed their hands of any responsibility despite being the ones and NOT the creators that are gathering data, and shifted responsibility on video creators. despite you know being the ones gathering data.
so why are people asking FTC to change the law rather then going after youtube? because the phrasing in the law is what makes these shenanigans possible and that phrasing is WHY youtube is going for such drasting flaging measure to save their ..behinds.
but anyways, you could in theory protect yourself by adding some curse words or something to your videos and making them not child friendly that way, but then you become a subject to youtube's handling of adult oriented content (rather then general audience algorithm stuffs) basicaly right now - its a catch 22 for content creators. no matter what you do? you are SoL
why is twitch not under the same kind of hot water? cause twitch added age gate.
P.S. do not think that you are not subject to this law just because you don't live in USA. you may not be getting sued by FTC depending on your country's law, but you are losing your youtube channel if you violate COPPA all the same. you are also not safe if your channel is not monetized. because cookies are still being collected all the same and someone watching your channel can be use by algorithm to give people recommendations for other channels that ARE monetized. and to summarize, its not about your actual videos its what youtube does as far as data collection goes.Edited by Linaleah on November 26, 2019 5:42AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭the video in the op is terrible, this one is so much better-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuScIN4emyo 3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For a brief history: The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA)) was enacted by Congress in 1998 to address concerns about children's access to obscene or harmful content over the Internet. For a long time, YouTube avoided being fined because Youtube's tried to use the excuse that all its content was for children over 13 years old and that there was a disclaimer stating as such. Unfortunately, YouTube was sued by many groups who were upset that many of the advertisements on the Youtube videos were targeting children under 13 years of age. In short, Google, the owner of Youtube, lost the lawsuit earlier this year and had to pay out a multi-million-dollar settlement, and is obligated to enforce the COPPA regulations starting on Jan 1, 2020.
On January 1, 2020, The FCC will also be enforcing the COPPA regulations on YouTube creators. In short, if the FCC decides that your video is not appropriate for children under 13 years old you could be fined $42,000 per video. YouTube has provided an option to tag your video for children over 13 years old, and you can do this either to your entire channel, or per video. Many of us in the forums post videos of tutorials, and other fun stuff we do in ESO, but the COPPA regulations are strict in that just using a word that is inappropriate for a child under 13 could land you a $42,000 fine, if the video is not tag for children over 13 years of age.. I included a link to a YouTube video which explains this in more detail:
And this is one (of many) reasons the internet needs to be deemed a free speech zone. Now people can't even make videos from fear they may offend some 13 year old and get sued.
Pretty ______ stupid.4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For a brief history: The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA)) was enacted by Congress in 1998 to address concerns about children's access to obscene or harmful content over the Internet. For a long time, YouTube avoided being fined because Youtube's tried to use the excuse that all its content was for children over 13 years old and that there was a disclaimer stating as such. Unfortunately, YouTube was sued by many groups who were upset that many of the advertisements on the Youtube videos were targeting children under 13 years of age. In short, Google, the owner of Youtube, lost the lawsuit earlier this year and had to pay out a multi-million-dollar settlement, and is obligated to enforce the COPPA regulations starting on Jan 1, 2020.
On January 1, 2020, The FCC will also be enforcing the COPPA regulations on YouTube creators. In short, if the FCC decides that your video is not appropriate for children under 13 years old you could be fined $42,000 per video. YouTube has provided an option to tag your video for children over 13 years old, and you can do this either to your entire channel, or per video. Many of us in the forums post videos of tutorials, and other fun stuff we do in ESO, but the COPPA regulations are strict in that just using a word that is inappropriate for a child under 13 could land you a $42,000 fine, if the video is not tag for children over 13 years of age.. I included a link to a YouTube video which explains this in more detail:
And this is one (of many) reasons the internet needs to be deemed a free speech zone. Now people can't even make videos from fear they may offend some 13 year old and get sued.
Pretty ______ stupid.
this has NOTHING to do with free speech and everything to do with data collection and targeted advertisement, watch the video above from folding ideas, pleasedirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
Spartycuss✭✭✭Went ahead set my channel to private until I figure out whats going on. Probably will have to delete it. Does this apply only to youtube or everywhere else on the internet?0
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Weisstag✭✭✭okay so in the conclusion, what can we do to not get yoinked by 42k$ lawsuit?Iam an EU player...so Iam pretty used to suffering1 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Spartycuss wrote: »Went ahead set my channel to private until I figure out whats going on. Probably will have to delete it. Does this apply only to youtube or everywhere else on the internet?
COPPA applies everywhere and has for a long time. But the problem right now is Youtube violated the act and got caught, and now they're trying to push all future responsibility onto the content creators while at the same time short handing them on the tools to do anything about it. So basically you're on the hook now because of something Youtube shouldn't have been doing in the first place.Edited by Glurin on November 26, 2019 7:18AM"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."3 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭okay so in the conclusion, what can we do to not get yoinked by 42k$ lawsuit?
That's the rub.
You could decide to play it safe and flag all your channels and videos as kids stuff, but then you will see a dramatic decrease in revenue, loss of a number of features for your videos, and be subject to any rules regarding inappropriate content being flagged as something for children.
On the other hand, you could say that your videos are intended for 13+ and things pretty much stay the same. That is unless some bureaucrat or the almighty computer algorithm decides that you lied because you've got an animated character in there somewhere. In which case you face the $42k fine, loss of your channel, legal fees, etc."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."1 -
vibeborn✭✭✭✭✭This is what happens when parents get lazy and stop monitoring what their kids watchEdited by vibeborn on November 26, 2019 7:18AM3
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Nova Sky✭✭✭✭✭The OP and subsequent posters deserve thanks for posting this topic — it's quite interesting. All that said, I cannot help but think that there's going to be hell to pay in 2020 at the ballot box if the enforcement of this statute becomes as draconian as some folks think it might get."Wheresoever you go, go with all of your heart."0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The OP and subsequent posters deserve thanks for posting this topic — it's quite interesting. All that said, I cannot help but think that there's going to be hell to pay in 2020 at the ballot box if the enforcement of this statute becomes as draconian as some folks think it might get.
Probably. Unfortunately that rage will be misdirected (unsurprisingly), as COPPA was passed way back in '98. This is not some new legislation rammed down our throats that the FTC is using to extort money from people who make Youtube videos. In fact it's only a problem now because Youtube deliberately violated it."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."2 -
Saucy_Jack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Some relevant text taken from the FTC's own website, specifically in regards to Youtube channel owners:
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How channel owners can determine if their content is directed to children
Under COPPA, there is no one-size-fits-all answer about what makes a site directed to children, but we can offer some guidance. To be clear, your content isn’t considered “directed to children” just because some children may see it. However, if your intended audience is kids under 13, you’re covered by COPPA and have to honor the Rule’s requirements.
The Rule sets out additional factors the FTC will consider in determining whether your content is child-directed:
the subject matter,
visual content,
the use of animated characters or child-oriented activities and incentives,
the kind of music or other audio content,
the age of models,
the presence of child celebrities or celebrities who appeal to children,
language or other characteristics of the site,
whether advertising that promotes or appears on the site is directed to children, and
competent and reliable empirical evidence about the age of the audience. (bolded for emphasis)
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That bolded one is why I think I'm ok. Any person who takes a look at my analytics page can immediately see that the general age range for my viewership is decidedly NOT on the "kiddie" end of the spectrum.
ALL HAIL SNUGGLORR THE MAGNIFICENT, KING OF THE RNG AND NIRN'S ONE TRUE GOD! Also, become a Scrub-scriber! SJ Scrubs: Playing games badly to make you feel better about yourself.1 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »Dottzgaming wrote: »This is a good share that all content creators need to look at who make content on YT.
Specifically for ESO, we theoretically should be fine, since ESO fundamentally is targeted at people 16+, the FTC would have a hard time proving that we are making videos that are targeted to kids under 13.
This is not true. Google/YouTube themselves tried to use this same line of defense in this case and lost.
Since I am a nice person, I am going to share what I have learned and save all of you a lot of money and headache. My Best Friend (since we were 5 years old) owns a law office, and has 2 lawyers who work under him. I went to him a few weeks ago when i heard about this.
(This case was actually settled on September 4th, Google has just recently put controls in place)
After a few weeks, he gave me a call, I sat down with him, and this is the expert legal advice I was told by 3 fully qualified lawyers:- All video game related YouTube channels that are monetized are certainly in violation of COPPA the way the law is currently written. (unless marked for kids)
- The Federal courts opinion(the only one that matters) sees the video game industry as largely marketed towards kids, and even the ERSB will agree with this assessment. For this reason, if you are sued by the FTC over your video game channel, the odds are very very very very slim you could win with the way the law is currently written. Especially when your content is centered on a subject matter that is largely marketed towards children.
- This won't be something you can contest via YouTube like a Copyright claim, the FTC will actually serve you, probably via certified mail, an actual lawsuit you will be required to show up in Federal Court. In the time between your court date they will probably offer to settle with you for a substantial amount of money (20grand per video or so)
- Depending on your location it will cost you between 5-7k dollars to get an attorney to respond to this suit, and then ongoing fees there after. If you lose your case it could cost you over 100,000 dollars in court and legal fees.
- The way the law is written it is simply against the law to show any advertisements, monetize videos contextually, and to mine user data(in this case Google) to kids under 13. Again, Since the courts see video games as largely marketed towards children, you don't want to be on the wrong side of these FTC lawsuits.
- The FTC is on record stating they are going after YouTube creators AGGRESSIVELY in January. They are not going to watch every single YouTube video they flag, they are going to flag it, and then send you a letter to settle for a large amount of money and remove your stuff, you refuse, they sue you. What they flag will be what they see as kid targeted, not what we think, big difference, and it will be up to you to prove otherwise. Remember, in civil cases, they only have to prove a "Preponderance of Evidence" not "beyond a reasonable doubt" its much easier for them to win a civil lawsuit than a criminal case.
- The FTC has given examples which I will show below, but the key point is :On the other hand, if your content includes traditional children’s pastimes or activities, it may be child-directed. Video games have been traditionally a childrens past time and activity. Even though Adults play them too, kids do just as well. This is where video game channels are in hot water. I
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/business-blog/2019/11/youtube-channel-owners-your-content-directed-children
Simply put, if you are a video gaming directed channel, and primarily post videos about video games, you would be wise to mark your channel and your videos as "content directed towards kids" Failing to do so, you do at your own peril. As soon as the FTC is done going after the BIG money makers on YouTube, they will then be coming after you. That lawyer that posted that video from is from California(most liberal state in the nation) He obviously has nothing to worry about because his channel is focused on business and legal advice, but he wasn't focusing his advice on video gaming channels. He touches on it very briefly and warns he is "worried" about certain YouTube Channels with gaming being one of the ones he was most concerned with.
I was advised by my legal counsel to remove all of my videos from YouTube and to pull out now. Its simply not worth the legal ramifications of 6 figures worth of fines and debt. I have all my videos on my hard drive, if the law changes, i can put them back. For now, as the law stands now, you run the real risk of being sued out of existence.
The only sure way to stay out of legal trouble with the FTC after January as a video game related channel is to mark all your videos as content directed towards kids. You will lose most of YouTube features, comments, and monetization, but the alternative is being sued in Federal Court or fined.
It;s very doubtful you could convince a Federal judge that your video gaming channel is not kid targeted content when the entire video game industry is marketed to kids. Thats a very slippery slope to try and walk up on. Unless you have spare 200,000 dollars laying around to fight this in court for years, you would be wise to mark the videos as "kids content" or simply stop uploading to Youtube and find another platform. As the law stands now, it is illegal to monetize personalized contexual ads to kids in videos that kids are the targeted audience, and video games is predominant marketed to kids even though adults play them.
Take care
I normally wouldn’t say this, but I feel this is a classic example of government regulation out of control. Really the only people that should be sued are the parents who don’t take the time to monitor their children’s access to the internet and what they watch. If the FTC imposed heavy fines on them, I could almost guarantee the problems would cease in a short amount of time.
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about music videos? If you upload a song with explicit lyrics to your channel, can you get fined for that, too?0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What about music videos? If you upload a song with explicit lyrics to your channel, can you get fined for that, too?
Depends on the whims of the bureaucracy. On the face of it, probably not. But things like logic and reason and even basic math don't come easily to these people. In fact they've been outright rejecting such notions as outdated and racist lately. So there's no guarantees."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
Weisstag✭✭✭Hey now that's funny, can't seem to find an option to make my channel kid unfriendly... guess iam getting sued 🤷♀️Iam an EU player...so Iam pretty used to suffering0
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Canned_Apples✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mountains out of mole hills.
Simply tag your video you channel for "not suitable." problem solved.0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What about music videos? If you upload a song with explicit lyrics to your channel, can you get fined for that, too?
no, becasue this is not what COPPA is about. its not about sensirship - its about protecting the children from their information being collected by third parties like youtube and then SELLING THAT INFO TO ADVERTISERS. you will however most likely get your video demonetized IF you monetize them in a first place.
to the post above you.
you can dispute false positives, you can get the wrongly placed for children tag removed, but its time consuming AND potentially expensive even if you win the dispute.
some people here keep making it all be FTC fault, or parents fault, etc, and yes, they are in part to blame. but ONLY in part. we wouldn't be in this trouble if youtube didn't break the law in a first place, and then washed their hands off it, shifting any further responsibility onto the shoulders of its users instead.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***0 -
RSram✭✭✭✭✭The thing that sucks about all this is even if you are innocent, you will still wind up playing thousands of dollars in lawyer fees just to respond to a FCC subpoena.0 -
Glurin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Canned_Apples wrote: »Mountains out of mole hills.
Simply tag your video you channel for "not suitable." problem solved.
Actually that could lead to even more problems for you. That big fine is for saying your videos are not suitable for kids and then having someone in authority decide that your videos actually are for kids.
Well, actually the fine is for what transpires with regards to data collection between the two types of videos. But in practical terms, it's for saying your videos are not for kids when you have an animated character in your video, which is obviously kids stuff."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."0 -
BackAndAngry✭✭✭Can I sue youtubers? I'm all about monetizing.PSA - Crown items paid for cash have a chance to soon be obtainable in game for free
Not my quote "It took a while to sink in that we’re killing it right now..."
Dragonhold - "...updated Activity Finder for dungeons and Battlegrounds, and also focuses heavily on the first part of the performance improvements for ESO..." ^^0 -
Zypheran✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Guys stop tin-hatting and scare mongering. The FTC isn't out to get people uploading eso videos.
Have a look at the both the FTC guidance on mixed audience content and also the actual ruling against YouTube and Google
https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/cases/172_3083_youtube_revised_complaint.pdf
It's quite clear that this is a fair approach taken by the FTC against material clearly targeted at children.
The FTC's guidelines on their own website also show clearly that they recognise that mixed interest content exists and that just because content isn't deemed as mature, that doesn't make it targeted at kids.
Also, on the 42k fine. The FTC also state that this is a maximum fine and that the FTC will take into account the impact of the fine on the businesses financial capacity.
The law is indeed serious and no doubt will be enforced and rightly so but it is very clear to anybody that reads the FTC guidelines that they really are targeting people that specifically target children with their content.
I think people are reading too many scary theories into this.All my housing builds are available on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3oJ_cxuu01HmWZJZ6KK6g?view_as=subscriber
I am happy to share the EHT save files for most of my builds.6
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwDrHOe43EThis discussion has been closed.