Balancing PVP has made PVE SUCK!

Shantu · November 2019

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Coatmagic · November 2019

*drags out dead guar*
*shakes rake angrilly*

Disable certain skills/sets in PvP! Stop killing your game, ya idjits!

Demra · November 2019

I bet most of the changes you dislike are the new's team attempt at balancing pve rather than pvp.

Also, it's not like the pvp community enjoying the changes and praising the team while telling the pve community to suck it. The situation is that a lot of the pve and pvp community think the dev team is misguided.

I personally think that the changes are their way to do away with power creep and cp system while keeping horizontal progression. But i am not blaming the folks who were voicing their dislike with the current cp system and power creep. At the end, it's devs responsibillity to handle the situation carefully and keep the game going.

BlueRaven · November 2019

I am still upset that they gave bosmers a racial that is only used in PvP (hunters eye). Then made the skill both weak and actually a detriment in some scenarios.

StaticWave · November 2019

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

If i recall correctly, didn't ZOS's dev team nerf shields because they "removed the need for healers in PvE"? I mean if you read through all the patches you can at least find 1 or 2 PvE balance changes that affected PvP. It goes both ways imo, so i don't think you should blame PvP.

Katahdin · November 2019

Daus wrote: »

Making the difficulty too easy is what makes PvE suck.

So you have Griffon heart, immortal redeemer and godslayer because PvE is so easy according to you?

Trial groups have died like flies in a fog of Raid.

Overland is not the issue here, it's still easy for a max CP, fully geared character.

Katahdin · November 2019

agingerinohio wrote: »

I believe if you are a Dev and trying to balance combat in this game, you should be playing end game pve as well as PvP. That way you know how changes are going to affect either.
Currently the balancing is the sloppiest I have seen it in the entirety of this game. So many of my guild mates in my top pve end game guild have left the game entirely after this last patch due to all of their character's dps being nerfed so badly. I'm talking like a 15-25k dps drop which now removes them from core team trial runs if 40k min dps is required on the 3 mil.
I don't believe for a second that the PvP experience on here is what is selling this game. It's the Pve content. The strive for the achievements, skins, ect.....
If PVE continues to get nerfed for the sake of the ever dying PvP portion of this game, then ESO is doomed. There will be nothing but roleplayers, Skyrim fanboys and casuals left (which from my experience talking to quite a few players who are in that category) generally dont spend money on this game.
Seperate the balancing= Problem...probably?..solved.

QFT, bolded for emphasis

Jem_Kindheart · November 2019

Katahdin wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Making the difficulty too easy is what makes PvE suck.

So you have Griffon heart, immortal redeemer and godslayer because PvE is so easy according to you?

Trial groups have died like flies in a fog of Raid.

Overland is not the issue here, it's still easy for a max CP, fully geared character.

Why do ppl always ask if someone has godslayer as a test of if they're any legit or not lol... Knowing there's like 3 teams with that title and that they got it by stacking 12 necros, and that the title is essentially out of reach now for everyone. This is at least the tenth time I've seen it lol. I see you weren't calling it out like that but I see it a good bit in zone.

There are extremely good players in ESO who simply don't have access to 11 other extremely good players. I think you know this, as you know that many of the highly skilled raiders have been departing eso trial groups. About half the players on my current teams are extremely skilled, but some achievements will be out of reach for them not because of their skill, but because half the team is fills or mid-tier, which is fine...I guess lol.

Heck most of my dungeon HM/speedrun/no deaths were from repeatedly bashing my head against them with pugs until I got a lucky one. I'd love to be progressing the very top stuff, my healer certainly has the gear, skills, experience, and personal gaming skill, but finding 11 others doesn't look promising these days.

Was definitely different a couple years ago, I ran with some hardcore Aussies and we simply had zero low skilled players on the teams or in fills. Maybe there's been a bigger and longer skill exodus than I thought..

pod88kk · November 2019

dem0n1k wrote: »

Cost increases on ground based AOEs .... I don't think these nerfs were due to PVP...

• Monster Sets/Proc sets no longer critting
• Changes to burst heals
• Original shield changes
• The DOT nerf was all PVP, people were annoyed about having to either slot a purge or were annoyed that people were able to kill/seriously damage them from a distance which put stam users at a big disadvantage. I for one stayed out of PVP during the "Dot Meta" as I didn't enjoy it at all.

To be fair, Zos have done this perfectly because instead of us grouping together and being mad at them Pvers are blaming Pvp for the changes and vice versa

Rave the Histborn · November 2019

mocap wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I think it's sad that you blame pvp players instead of zos' ineptness.

where is he blame pvp players? Quote pls.

Read the title of the thread

KillsAllElves · November 2019

dem0n1k wrote: »

Cost increases on ground based AOEs .... I don't think these nerfs were due to PVP...

All nerfs and buffs are due to Zo$ using pvp as a basis for combat updates.

Since 2018 too many players cried about this notion of a power creep... Since nerfmire Zo$ has been on a role nerfing class and weapon abilitie to appease a certain group.

People whine for the dumbest of things and Zo$ bends over backwards to make a certain group happy. Further more this is the very reason Zo$ needs to learn how to differentiate between pvp and pve.= This game is a mess.

Hapexamendios · November 2019

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

As a strictly PvE player I will state the corollary is balancing PvE makes PvP suck. The problem will never be resolved until ZOS balances each environment separately. While it would take some work since the game segregates each style of play into their own areas it should be straight forward to have unique damage tables for each too.

This.

mague · November 2019

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

No. Its not the balance of game. Its the imbalance of certain players. Toxic *beeps* full of *beep* who think everyone else is just a sidekick NPC on their never ending journey to self-glorification. Its their parents and real environment who should have balanced them. It is not the duty of a gaming company to balance pychopath trainee.

As any airplane has a sky marshal there should be a online marshal in any PvP game in future to make sure certain psychos cant hijack games and take players as hostage for their pleasure.

Rowjoh · November 2019

PVP is NOT balanced.

Extreme tanky meta is the result of the latest round of changes and Volundrung continues to plague fair gameplay with its ridiculous destruction of balanced maps.

Olupajmibanan · November 2019

Ground AoEs are perfect way to partialy balance PvP and PvE separately.
Their use is extremely limited in PvP.
In PvE it's harder to use them than standard debuff dots and the chance of wasting their use is much higher.

That's why I believe ground AoEs should be stronger and cheaper than debuff dots. We could balance PvE around ground AoEs leaving debuff dots for PvP.

But whatever, let's them nerf altogether. And you know what? Let's nerf ground AoEs somewhat more so their use is a complete no-go. The prime example of combat team having no clue about real practice is Lightning Splash. It's damage is low and cost is extremely high and the synergy simply doesn't make for it. They should encourage use of abilities which have synergies attached and not discourage.

Grianasteri · November 2019

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

I think its an age old issue. Trying to balance the two by making actual changes to base skills, morphs, races, classes, for me personally, is not the answer - because pvp and pve are so drastically different in the build and skills required.

personally, as a laymen, it seems to me the way to go about this is to have some form of "Battle Spirit" for all pvp, that alters matters to make pvp more balanced and fair... without affecting pve.

Mayrael · November 2019

One Tamriel sustain nerfs was because of PvE, Shield nerfs (HP limit) was because of PvE, Bloodthirsty nerfs was because of PvE, AoE sustain nerfs was because of PvE. In general Magblades (Funnel Health, Strife and morphs cost increase, twisting path, siphoning strikes) was because of PvE... We can argue what have been nerf because of what, does it really matters?

Curious_Death · November 2019

Shantu wrote: »

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Yes, there's something new!

*joined vet SELENE to low 200-300 cp DD's and 400cp healer... i tanked boss for soo long (about 15 min) the boss reset itself and teleported us back high to the web - selene became spider again... THEY LOWER DMG that hard... that new players cannot pass basic VET having 200 cp! lol

they simply cannot kill vet boss in time (not even HM).
Casuals quit - not having fun - beeing useless in group! but... if they dont play with players... only on test servers... i am not suprised.

BNOC · November 2019

Curious_Death wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Yes, there's something new!

*joined vet SELENE to low 200-300 cp DD's and 400cp healer... i tanked boss for soo long (about 15 min) the boss reset itself and teleported us back high to the web - selene became spider again... THEY LOWER DMG that hard... that new players cannot pass basic VET having 200 cp! lol they simply cannot kill vet boss in time (not even HM).
Casuals quit - not having fun - beeing useless in group! but... if they dont play with players... only on test servers... i am not suprised.

Good, too much has been handed to them on a plate - They don't need any more and if they're quitting because they're not able to compete only pressing 3 buttons then good riddance.

Kesstryl · November 2019

BNOC wrote: »

Curious_Death wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Yes, there's something new!

*joined vet SELENE to low 200-300 cp DD's and 400cp healer... i tanked boss for soo long (about 15 min) the boss reset itself and teleported us back high to the web - selene became spider again... THEY LOWER DMG that hard... that new players cannot pass basic VET having 200 cp! lol they simply cannot kill vet boss in time (not even HM).
Casuals quit - not having fun - beeing useless in group! but... if they dont play with players... only on test servers... i am not suprised.

Good, too much has been handed to them on a plate - They don't need any more and if they're quitting because they're not able to compete only pressing 3 buttons then good riddance.

They can't learn how to do it right if the content is too hard. Those dungeons are designed for low CP, and players at that level should be able to do it with average skill. I'm tired of elitists like you thinking everyone has to be on par with your 24/7 daily practice and play. Many of us work and don't have that kind of time to put in. I've also tanked low CP dungeons with low CP playerrs who could not complete the dungeons. They really tried hard. I gave advice and saw them work hard to do the right things, and we just had to quit. This is not okay.

Somber97866 · November 2019

Let's take the Magnecro. The slow lobbing skulls ( easier to dodge) Blastbones ( they were even nerfed to better fit PVP but it made it too clunky) The Bone Colossus ( the bash was nerfed fro PVP) and the list goes on!
Dizzing swings...........
Monster helm and proc sets being able to crit........
Should I keep going?
The list is huge!
Should we talk about the Sorcs? You don't want to go there! Lol
Let's look at the Warden and the way it's skills were designed?
Northern Storm..........
Ulti cast times!.........
Keep going?
I can for days. But the thing I wonder? What has been nerfed in PVP bc of PVE?
Overall damage .......like twice?

Valykc · November 2019

Here we go again... 🙄

Valykc · November 2019

Blaming PvP players when ZOS is the one who refuses to balance them separately... yeah, ok..

Marcus684 · November 2019

What effect does PvP changes have on PvE? Bosses take maybe 20% longer to burn down so you have to actually deal with some mechanics you got to avoid before? Not a huge issue IMHO.

Tsar_Gekkou · November 2019

BNOC wrote: »

Curious_Death wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Yes, there's something new!

*joined vet SELENE to low 200-300 cp DD's and 400cp healer... i tanked boss for soo long (about 15 min) the boss reset itself and teleported us back high to the web - selene became spider again... THEY LOWER DMG that hard... that new players cannot pass basic VET having 200 cp! lol they simply cannot kill vet boss in time (not even HM).
Casuals quit - not having fun - beeing useless in group! but... if they dont play with players... only on test servers... i am not suprised.

Good, too much has been handed to them on a plate - They don't need any more and if they're quitting because they're not able to compete only pressing 3 buttons then good riddance.

Lol how has anything been handed to them on a plate? The average dps has been garbage for a long time now. Zos just made it worse by lowering damage and killing sustain. This is why finding tanks and actual good healers in the dungeon finder gets harder and harder: Because we don't want to sit in a vet Fungal Grotto 2 for 50 minutes. Good players just stick to playing with other good players while the few noobs who want to get better just get matched with trashcans that do nothing but light attack and stand in stupid, causing them to eventually lose interest in the game.

Jaraal · November 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

Can you tell us which PvP nerfs annoyed you most? Cause the latest major combat changes were not PvP related. The nerf of the dots, the main reason was that PvE players didnt like the new rotations.

Lol, werewolves were gutted and made irrelevant because a few crying BG scrubs wouldn’t take the time to learn how to counter us. Now we are garbage in PvE, as well as PvP. Hardly anybody but RPers play the subclass any more. All because of PvP “balancing”.

cyclonus11 · November 2019

Bashev wrote: »

Can you tell us which PvP nerfs annoyed you most?

For me, it was the removal of knock backs and stuns from just about everything that had them (especially while letting NPCs keep them).

Bashev · November 2019

Jaraal wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

Can you tell us which PvP nerfs annoyed you most? Cause the latest major combat changes were not PvP related. The nerf of the dots, the main reason was that PvE players didnt like the new rotations.

Lol, werewolves were gutted and made irrelevant because a few crying BG scrubs wouldn’t take the time to learn how to counter us. Now we are garbage in PvE, as well as PvP. Hardly anybody but RPers play the subclass any more. All because of PvP “balancing”.

Everything that happened to WWs is because of PvE and not because of PvP. First ZoS buffed the enchants to be triggered by single dots. That change was PvE related not PvP. Then of course that change hit PvP really bad and a nerf came.

The second nerf for WWs was the DoT standardization. That change was strictly PvE oriented and not PvP. The new team homogenize all damage skills, so it is easier for them to balance the classes.

Toc de Malsvi · November 2019

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Curious_Death wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

PVP...PVE...who cares anymore? Just another crop of combat devs that don't have a clue. What else is new?

Yes, there's something new!

*joined vet SELENE to low 200-300 cp DD's and 400cp healer... i tanked boss for soo long (about 15 min) the boss reset itself and teleported us back high to the web - selene became spider again... THEY LOWER DMG that hard... that new players cannot pass basic VET having 200 cp! lol they simply cannot kill vet boss in time (not even HM).
Casuals quit - not having fun - beeing useless in group! but... if they dont play with players... only on test servers... i am not suprised.

Good, too much has been handed to them on a plate - They don't need any more and if they're quitting because they're not able to compete only pressing 3 buttons then good riddance.

Lol how has anything been handed to them on a plate? The average dps has been garbage for a long time now. Zos just made it worse by lowering damage and killing sustain. This is why finding tanks and actual good healers in the dungeon finder gets harder and harder: Because we don't want to sit in a vet Fungal Grotto 2 for 50 minutes. Good players just stick to playing with other good players while the few noobs who want to get better just get matched with trashcans that do nothing but light attack and stand in stupid, causing them to eventually lose interest in the game.

Yup.

The reality is that catering to hardcore kills your game. Hardcore players know the game better and are better at it. But hardcore players do not often grasp how to fulfill the needs of casuals. Bettering the game for a hardcore player can and has ruined it for a casual. Even with hardcore players big financial investment they are drastically outweighed by the sheer number of casuals.

You want games with depth so that as a players skill grows there is more to enjoyment. However, you need the game to also have some simplicity that gives enjoyment for casual players to keep them invested. A lot of casual players are not looking for a second job, they are not looking for a new internship. A lot of casual players log into to escape to a fantasy world where they can feel powerful and have adventures. There is always some necessary character development in MMOs, ESO has risked making that development too costly for the casual player.

Ilision · November 2019

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Somber97866 wrote: »

Disclaimer : This is my opinion. This is not a representation of the beliefs of ZOS or affiliates. This is only my belief..........
Tell me I'm wrong!

I think it's sad that you blame pvp players instead of zos' ineptness.

Maybe I am wrong but his statement reference PVP balancing has nothing to do with the PVP players. He is simply stating that balancing PVP mechanics may have broken PVE ones. Since we all use the same set of PVE skills for PVP with a few PVP skills added to the action bar, I can see why this is a great argument. You cant fix PVP by changing stats on skills used in PVE.

It will be like giving someone short the walking stick that is too big for them, then him/her cutting it in half to fit them and then returning both parts back to you, expecting you to work with it broken.

Do not allow the use of PVE skills in PVP and ZOS can do whatever they want with the PVP skills.

Just a thought...I know I am an ars.