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Fear attacks should require magicka to break free from.
Langeston
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I never understood why physical stamina was required to break free from fear (a magical/psychological attack). Most of the other stuns/CC's make sense to me, as they're all physical attacks — but since fear attacks your mind & requires mental fortitude to overcome, (and Major Intellect relates to magicka recovery,) I feel like it would make more sense if you had to use magicka to break free from it.
Not only would it be more logical, [in my opinion] but it would have the added benefit of evening the playing field a bit between magicka & stamina characters. (Stamina toons would continue to have the advantage with regard to CCs as the vast majority of them would still require stamina.)
Agree or disagree?
[edit] Copied & pasted from a later post for further clarification:
Edited by Langeston on November 20, 2019 6:53PM Not only would it be more logical, [in my opinion] but it would have the added benefit of evening the playing field a bit between magicka & stamina characters. (Stamina toons would continue to have the advantage with regard to CCs as the vast majority of them would still require stamina.)
Agree or disagree?
[edit] Copied & pasted from a later post for further clarification:
1. CCs & stuns currently only pose a [serious] threat to magicka classes, as it targets their weakest link — i.e. their stamina pool.
2. In my opinion: the CC mechanic would be more well-rounded if some of the skills could be more strongly weaponized against stamina classes by attacking their weakest link — i.e. their magicka pool. (I also think it would make combat more interesting.)
3. Most CCs (such as Stun, Knock Back/Knock Down, Off-Balance, Pull, & in most cases Disorient) make sense to require stamina to break free from as they are physical attacks.
4. Since in ESO "Major Intellect" increases magicka recovery, if you attack someone's mind/intellect (as you are with Fear) you are attacking their magicka.
5. Since Aspect of Terror is a magicka based skill that attacks an enemies psyche, requiring magicka to break free from it makes far more sense than physical stamina.
6. If you attack a person's stamina to the point that their stamina pool is depleted, they become physically exhausted & incredibly vulnerable. Attacking your opponent's magicka to the point that their magicka pool is depleted should cause them to become mentally/psychically exhausted (i.e. momentarily insane) & thus equally vulnerable.
7. This tweak to the CC mechanic would require all classes to take a more holistic approach to resource management, rather than allowing stamina based classes to completely ignore their magicka pool.
Fear attacks should require magicka to break free from. 135 votes
Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.
63%
86 votes
Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.
36%
49 votes
6
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MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.Yeah, why not, looks like interesting change.6 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.2 -
leeux✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.Hm, yeah... I think it'd be a good compensation for Stamina builds basically laughing at Negates atm.PC/NA - Proud old member of the Antique Ordinatus Populus
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Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
I don't follow your logic. It would be a direct buff to fear against stamina toons.
On my stamblade, fear isn't much of a concern since I always have enough stamina to break free. If it required magicka though, it would be a much different story since I have much less of that.
Literally every CC in the game (and there are a lot of them) attacks your stamina — meaning magicka users are at a tremendous disadvantage in that regard. Personally, I think fear would be much more useful if it attacked magicka.8 -
CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.I never understood why physical stamina was required to break free from fear (a magical/psychological attack). Most of the other stuns/CC's make sense to me, as they're all physical attacks — but since fear attacks your mind & requires mental fortitude to overcome, (and Major Intellect relates to magicka recovery,) I feel like it would make more sense if you had to use magicka to break free from it.
Not only would it be more logical, [in my opinion] but it would have the added benefit of evening the playing field a bit between magicka & stamina characters. (Stamina toons would continue to have the advantage with regard to CCs as the vast majority of them would still require stamina.)
Agree or disagree?
Strongly agree.
I would add silence to that as well. If I am a mag class that spent a little bit to much stam blocking and dodging attacks and get silenced, it shouldn't take my physical ressources but mental ressources (magicka) to get out of it.4 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.There is another solution - remove fear from Turn Evil and replace it with regular stun. Hard CC should have some downsides. For example DK lacks easy accessible burst, NB's fear can be countered by countering cloak, sorc's unblockable stuns have their downsides as well - one informs you about incoming stun and second requires some aim and correct positioning. Turn evil doesn't have any downsides other then if target will move out of circle before fear will proc.0 -
CleymenZero✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
I understand the issue. It would be a sort of balance to the fact that fear is unlockable. Then you'd have to worry about fossilize and other unlockable stuns...
I find that the nightblade incap silence should be dealt with with magicka regardless.0 -
Araneae6537✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.I also think fear attacks should be more like a stun, make you cower or something rather than turn and run. It would feel better to me, like whatever effect has just overwhelmed and paralyzed you, rather than my character turning and jogging away. Plus, it’s annoying and can get you stuck within walls and other objects.
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
I don't follow your logic. It would be a direct buff to fear against stamina toons.
On my stamblade, fear isn't much of a concern since I always have enough stamina to break free. If it required magicka though, it would be a much different story since I have much less of that.
Literally every CC in the game (and there are a lot of them) attacks your stamina — meaning magicka users are at a tremendous disadvantage in that regard. Personally, I think fear would be much more useful if it attacked magicka.
What you're suggesting would make some mag builds completely Broken in a dual against someone using fear as their primary CC because they wouldn't have to worry about their Stam pool at all. Your argument is one sided against Stam builds. There's a reason the Stam pool exists and thats so you are forced to manage it in a fight and if you don't you're dead.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.And my reply is as someone who plays magicka most of the time.
A proper build helps ensure we have stamina for break free and dodge roll. Player skill also plays a role.4 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
I don't follow your logic. It would be a direct buff to fear against stamina toons.
On my stamblade, fear isn't much of a concern since I always have enough stamina to break free. If it required magicka though, it would be a much different story since I have much less of that.
Literally every CC in the game (and there are a lot of them) attacks your stamina — meaning magicka users are at a tremendous disadvantage in that regard. Personally, I think fear would be much more useful if it attacked magicka.
What you're suggesting would make some mag builds completely Broken in a dual against someone using fear as their primary CC because they wouldn't have to worry about their Stam pool at all. Your argument is one sided against Stam builds. There's a reason the Stam pool exists and thats so you are forced to manage it in a fight and if you don't you're dead.
As opposed to stam toons never worrying about their mag pool?5 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
Uh dude... missing the point, not like Mag builds dont run out of magicka, just as stamina builds run out of stamina if they CC break constantly.
Mag builds can break stamina stuns with their off resource, Stam builds can break mag CC with their off resource.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade5 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.[And my reply is as someone who plays magicka most of the time.
A proper build helps ensure we have stamina for break free and dodge roll. Player skill also plays a role.
If fear required magicka to break free, the only thing that would change about the above sentence is that it would look like this:
"A proper build helps ensure we have stamina/magicka for break free and dodge roll."
It would require all classes to balance their builds, rather than just magicka toons. As it stands now, stamina classes can simply dump everything into stamina without consequence.
As far as "player skill" playing a role in breaking free, I'm not sure what you're talking about — you press a button & you either have the resources to break free or you don't. If you dump all your stats into stamina you're more likely to have the resources to break free than someone who has to balance magicka with stamina. That's not "player skill," that's simply how allocation of finite resources works.8 -
5cript✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.I would actually like that.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.No because that would be a direct nerf to Fear specially the nightblade fear since mag builds can essentially have a free CC break without worrying about managing their Stam pool and Stam builds could easily use some of their Mag pool to CC break.
I don't follow your logic. It would be a direct buff to fear against stamina toons.
On my stamblade, fear isn't much of a concern since I always have enough stamina to break free. If it required magicka though, it would be a much different story since I have much less of that.
Literally every CC in the game (and there are a lot of them) attacks your stamina — meaning magicka users are at a tremendous disadvantage in that regard. Personally, I think fear would be much more useful if it attacked magicka.
What you're suggesting would make some mag builds completely Broken in a dual against someone using fear as their primary CC because they wouldn't have to worry about their Stam pool at all. Your argument is one sided against Stam builds. There's a reason the Stam pool exists and thats so you are forced to manage it in a fight and if you don't you're dead.
Huh? Stamina builds are already "broken" with regard to CCs. My Bosmer stamblade with 40k stamina & 2.2k stam regen suffered zero consequences from completely ignoring the magicka pool & concentrating on stamina — CCs were a complete non-issue. My suggestion would simply require all builds to have to be more careful with their resource management.5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.[And my reply is as someone who plays magicka most of the time.
A proper build helps ensure we have stamina for break free and dodge roll. Player skill also plays a role.
If fear required magicka to break free, the only thing that would change about the above sentence is that it would look like this:
"A proper build helps ensure we have stamina/magicka for break free and dodge roll."
It would require all classes to balance their builds, rather than just magicka toons. As it stands now, stamina classes can simply dump everything into stamina without consequence.
As far as "player skill" playing a role in breaking free, I'm not sure what you're talking about — you press a button & you either have the resources to break free or you don't. If you dump all your stats into stamina you're more likely to have the resources to break free than someone who has to balance magicka with stamina. That's not "player skill," that's simply how allocation of finite resources works.
The history of these forums is filled with "if" and most of it is nothing more than I do not like the way the game works to change it to my liking. If Zos listened to some of them we would have one resource for everything one quarter and 3 resources split among different things another quarter. We should also have several more stats in the game.
If is not a reason to change anything is my point.
Further, classes would not have to make any changes to their build because fear required magicak to break free. On my stamina characters I would laugh at the change. It would just make things easier for magicka based characters.
The logic behind the idea is flawed like most "if" or I want it different types of request.0 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.yeah why not I like my khatblade op...also NERF SORC!Edited by xenowarrior92eb17_ESO on November 20, 2019 12:48AM0 -
Valykc✭✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.0 -
phermitgb✭✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.as many poll posts, you didn't even come close to my actual opinion, so I just voted disagree in general. I don't feel that break free, or block, or dodge, or roll - all the fundamental defensive maneuvers - should HAVE to be stamina or magicka, in the world of Elder Scrolls. Bound shields (magicka) are a thing. Short range teleportation can easily be a thing. I'm not quite sure what a magicka based break free would look like, but I have no idea why it couldn't be a thing. And so on.
My personal fairy-granted wish is that ALL skills and ALL defensive maneuvers could be assigned to draw from stamina or magicka as the player desires. My personal fairy granted wish also includes setting base damage value on something OTHER than stamina or magicka, but that's a 2nd wish, and I'd settle for just the first."There is no correct resolution; It's a test of character."
James T. Kirk1 -
Goregrinder✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.
Well right now stam builds don't have to worry about ANY form of CC. Magicka builds have to. If you run only 10k stam on a mag build, good luck breaking free from any CC.2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Whilst I am of the opinion that the proliferation of CC is a cancer in the game, this isn't a terrible suggestion.
As long as breaking free of any form of CC grants complete CC immunity for >=6 seconds.0 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.[And my reply is as someone who plays magicka most of the time.
A proper build helps ensure we have stamina for break free and dodge roll. Player skill also plays a role.
If fear required magicka to break free, the only thing that would change about the above sentence is that it would look like this:
"A proper build helps ensure we have stamina/magicka for break free and dodge roll."
It would require all classes to balance their builds, rather than just magicka toons. As it stands now, stamina classes can simply dump everything into stamina without consequence.
As far as "player skill" playing a role in breaking free, I'm not sure what you're talking about — you press a button & you either have the resources to break free or you don't. If you dump all your stats into stamina you're more likely to have the resources to break free than someone who has to balance magicka with stamina. That's not "player skill," that's simply how allocation of finite resources works.
The history of these forums is filled with "if" and most of it is nothing more than I do not like the way the game works to change it to my liking. If Zos listened to some of them we would have one resource for everything one quarter and 3 resources split among different things another quarter. We should also have several more stats in the game.
If is not a reason to change anything is my point.
Further, classes would not have to make any changes to their build because fear required magicak to break free. On my stamina characters I would laugh at the change. It would just make things easier for magicka based characters.
The logic behind the idea is flawed like most "if" or I want it different types of request.
That's quite a word salad you've got there — however you still haven't explained how the "logic is flawed." In fact, when you state:
you're actually illustrating my point: breaking free is already trivially easy for stamina toons — making fear attack magicka instead of stamina would lighten the burden on magicka users. And I can't speak for all classes, but I know that my stamblade wouldn't "laugh at the change," seeing as magicka is necessary for several vital skills, such as Cloak, Shade & [ironically enough:] Aspect of Terror. Yes, the skill that requires stamina to break free from is a magicka ability.It would just make things easier for magicka based characters
This is now the third time I've seen you completely dismiss someone else's opinion as being "flawed" simply because you don't understand their rationale. I'd suggest at least making an attempt to think critically before posting your knee-jerk disagreement, unless coming across as a troll is actually your goal.Edited by Langeston on November 20, 2019 2:05AM6 -
Valykc✭✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.Goregrinder wrote: »I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.
Well right now stam builds don't have to worry about ANY form of CC. Magicka builds have to. If you run only 10k stam on a mag build, good luck breaking free from any CC.
I agree but if you don’t manage stam that takes away from your healing and other skills too. Having it all in stam can be a double edged sword if you don’t manage it well. But like I said, I can agree with this change as I understand the point of the discussion, I’m just saying it may make people harder to kill if they have a semi balanced stat pool0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.Fear is a reaction based on any number of triggers. Most triggers are (in today's world) responses to things we've read, or seen on media.
Magicka is a counter that makes perfect sense. We don't have "mental stiffness" in this game - but we do have magicka. And its the logical counter to fear.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.Goregrinder wrote: »I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.
Well right now stam builds don't have to worry about ANY form of CC. Magicka builds have to. If you run only 10k stam on a mag build, good luck breaking free from any CC.
That's your choice and your problem, similar to how stam builds cannot reliably purify without investing in a set or getting more mag.
With the game as unbalanced as it is, I don't think adding more complexity to cater to certain builds is a good thing now or in the future.
At some point you play the game, you make your character, and you have to take the downsides to the build or don't build that way in the first place.
Not to mention that sustaining stamina is one of, if not the only true weakness mag chars have in the game.0 -
Vizirith✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.Goregrinder wrote: »I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.
Well right now stam builds don't have to worry about ANY form of CC. Magicka builds have to. If you run only 10k stam on a mag build, good luck breaking free from any CC.
That's your choice and your problem, similar to how stam builds cannot reliably purify without investing in a set or getting more mag.
With the game as unbalanced as it is, I don't think adding more complexity to cater to certain builds is a good thing now or in the future.
At some point you play the game, you make your character, and you have to take the downsides to the build or don't build that way in the first place.
Not to mention that sustaining stamina is one of, if not the only true weakness mag chars have in the game.
What? First the issue is that magicka toons have to invest in tristat food or glyphs or both for extra stam while stamina toons rarely do for magicka. On my stamnecro the only magicka skills I use are intensive mender and summoners armor and have yet to have less than 1/3 of my mag at any point and thats if I ise both at the same time, while around 60% of the time I sit at 100% in combat. On stamplar I only have ritual. The only issues that this change would effect negatively would be stamdks using wings and frag shield and stamblades with cloak, but neither have to worry about going out of magicka as much as magicka toons running out of stamina.
As for the stam toons not having a reliable purify... both stamplars and stamdens have reliable purifies without needing to do anything so with the magicka equivalents. Nbs have cloak for dot suppression. Necro has a health based purge which works the same for both mag and stam. Dks and Sorcs dont have anything. Curse eater isnt that popular and rarely worth it. Efficient purge should never be run on any toons except healers or purge bots. I worry less about using ritual on my stamplar than I do my magplar. I have my whole mag and mag regen just using that one skill. What happens if I run out of mag? Well then I just cant purge for another few secs, oh well.
As for your ending comment, clearly you are biased against mag toons and probably nothing will convince you otherwise.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Disagree — fear based attacks should require physical stamina to break free from.I don't think we need to add the complexity of multiple cc types.0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭graybeardII wrote: »Like I don't have enough sustain problems lets add brake free too
so NO
Because you can't manage your primary resource already? No in block capitals because of that too, lul.Goregrinder wrote: »I’m saying no because the stuns, Snares, roots all help drain stamina and if the person doesn’t manage their stam well then you can get a guaranteed kill. Splitting stuns between mag and stam will make it harder to drain resources.
That being said, yes, your thought process absolutely makes more sense and I could get behind the ide. I just think draining stam is an important PvP mechanic. If you had an option for in between, I would have selected that.
Well right now stam builds don't have to worry about ANY form of CC. Magicka builds have to. If you run only 10k stam on a mag build, good luck breaking free from any CC.
That's your choice and your problem, similar to how stam builds cannot reliably purify without investing in a set or getting more mag.
With the game as unbalanced as it is, I don't think adding more complexity to cater to certain builds is a good thing now or in the future.
At some point you play the game, you make your character, and you have to take the downsides to the build or don't build that way in the first place.
Not to mention that sustaining stamina is one of, if not the only true weakness mag chars have in the game.
How are you comparing purify and CC? Only Templar can consistently purify, other classes have no chance with the cost of Purge -Every stamina class can break free at will.
Also, this isn't overly complex at all, I assume they already check you're breaking free so another if statement to check the type wouldn't be much to add.
What's a stamina true weakness? What about damage, mobility etc on Magicka? Are you a stamina main?
I don't think this would be a bad addition but can you imagine the backlash from average stamina mains who would have to manage their magicka pool the same way we have to manage stamina? Imagine a stamina character not being able to break free, that would be a fun day.vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree — fear based attacks should require a more mystical defense.That's... actually pretty brilliant.0