Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.
Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.
Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.
Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.
Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.
Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.
Exactly my point. As you sad. speculation about if Zos intended it or not is meaningless which is exactly my point. Glad you agree since your first post in this thread seemed to indicate otherwise.
Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I am pretty sure main reason for creating the gifting was to let people sell the gold for crowns so ZoS will be able to make even more money from crown store.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »wtlonewolf20 wrote: »SirLeeMinion wrote: »Yes, we have Tamriel Crown Exchange and World Crown Exchange. Both those player-run organizations maintain a list of known scammers, because there still is no secure way to exchange crown items for gold. Trying to find a buyer or seller and then also trying to find a third party mediator / guarantor is cumbersome even with these organizations. While ZOS have proven to be good about refunding scammed gold etc..., filing and processing support tickets is time consuming for us, and presumably for ZOS as well. The gifting system never should have launched without a secure exchange method. It seems unlikely that ZOS was so short-sighted to think that gifting functionality would not also be used for selling crowns. Even if that were the case, once they clarified that selling crowns for gold was acceptable, a secure system should have been implemented. Much time has passed, and it seems worth raising the issue again.
To be quite honest if the selling of crowns for in game currencies gets to cumbersome to ZOS I fully expect that they will just make the practice bannable rather than developing tools to make trades more secure.
At least then people would stop making forum posts about it, since we'd have a concrete answer.
We have a concrete answer to Zos permitting trading crowns for gold. Gina has said it is permitted without issue when someone trades a crown store items for gold. That is really all that matters and it is very concrete.Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »CassandraGemini wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I don't know about that. I mean, they made Crowns giftable, didn't they? Why would you just gift a random person something that you bought with real money, unless they're a really good real life friend? I find that highly unlikely and I'm pretty sure ZoS must have thought along those lines as well.
So yes, a secure exchange method that prevents you from being scammed one way or the other seems like a reasonable request to me, even though I personally don't participate in the Crown/Gold exchange.
Yes, so people could "Gift" them....like give for free.....which is what a gift is. Exchanging gold for a crown store item would be a transaction, not a gift. And player to player crown store transactions are not what they intended...but so far tolerate and do not discourage them.
Er... did you even read the rest of my post, past the very first sentence?
Yes, your post is based on how things "seemed" to you, rather than actual inside knowledge of what ZOS originally intended when they first thought to bring "gifts" to the crown store. My post is also based on how things "seem" to me, due to the fact that if they wanted players to exchange "gifts" for gold, they would have already implemented this feature, and definitely not called it "gifting". There would have been a different option added in addition to the "gift" option, probably called "Trade" or "exchange" or some other verb that explains trading something of value for something else of value.
Well, yes, obviously my post is based on how things seem to me, since none of us have "actual inside knowledge" of what ZoS intended, as you put it. That doesn't make my point less valid though, does it? I mean, how many times have you actually 'gifted' other players items from the Crown Store without expecting anything in return? Because I sure haven't done that and wouldn't do it ever, and I imagine most other players feel the same way. So I have to wonder, if ZoS really thought people would do this for whatever reason I cannot fathom, or if it doesn't make more sense that they expected some form of exchange to happen.
Of course that does leave the point of why they wouldn't facilitate a trade in a better, more secure way. I really don't have a clue, but if the conclusion to that should really be that they actually implemented the gifting, believing people would do just that - gift Crown Store items to others for free... well, let's just say, that would be more than a little naive to me.
Quite a few times, especially to friends. I do it in a lot of games, I gift them WoW mounts, maybe a skin or two, etc. Anytime I give someone a "gift", I expect nothing in return. If I want something in return, I don't give them a "Gift", I sell or trade them.
Oh, to friends you say? Why, look, that's exactly what I said I might do too in my very first post. Which just might be the difference between us, since none of my real life friends play ESO, and I surely wouldn't gift a Crown Store item to just a random person. In-game items to help them out, sure (and yes, those are "gifts" then, too), but stuff from the Crown Store that basically equals real money? Nope. Not ashamed to admit that I wouldn't to that for a complete stranger I met in a MMO.
But since you're obviously really intent on just picking one aspect of a post to answer to while completely ignoring the rest of what is being said, I'm going to end this conversation now. It's getting tiresome.
But you won't be "gifting" them.....you will be SELLING them to your friends, since you expect gold back. That is not a gift, that is a transaction.
Okay, you're very obviously a troll. Nice knowing you.
Ok buh-bye! ZOS still never intended players to trade crowns directly for gold...otherwise they'd let you add crowns in the trade window or the trade window would let you open up the crown store and select an Item.
Your suggestion here lacks a foundation or logic as Zos has had some items that cannot be gifted. Therefore gifting crowns direct as you suggest would not make sense.
Which could be one of the multiple variables on why they STILL don't allow....but might not be one of the ORIGINAL variables when they first thought up the system when they conceived the idea.
It merely means Zos did not intend for those items to be gifted. We can read a lot info that but it is meaningless to do so as I am pretty sure none of us can read their minds.
I agree, none of us can read there minds, so how things "appear" to us personally is meaningless. I definitely agree.
Yes. What we do know if gifting crown items for gold is acceptable behavior. Which means speculation that Zos never intended trading crown items for gold is meaningless. Glad you agree with that.
Yup speculation of whether it was intend or not is definitely meaningless, I definitely do agree with that.
Exactly my point. As you sad. speculation about if Zos intended it or not is meaningless which is exactly my point. Glad you agree since your first post in this thread seemed to indicate otherwise.
No, it seemed to indicate that if it was on their white board of "Things the Gifting Crown Items System Should Include", transactions between players exchanging crowns or crown items for gold were probably not written on their. But yes, it is meaningless to speculate on any aspect of this considering we have no data on that.
The data we do have, is that ZOS doesn't mind that players gift, then their buddy trades them gold. But they have yet to add that as a built in feature however many years later, even for the items that CAN be sold via transaction. So occam's razor seems to apply here.
Goregrinder wrote: »Goregrinder wrote: »I am pretty sure ZOS never intended for people to exchange Crowns for In game gold, but noticed that people do it so they don't ban you for doing it, but also don't plan on facilitating it themselves.
I am pretty sure main reason for creating the gifting was to let people sell the gold for crowns so ZoS will be able to make even more money from crown store.
Source?