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Global auction house verses limited traders
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Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »
Bull. Just because you can't see every single available item up for sale in real time doesn't mean that there is no competition. There's hundreds of guild traders out there, each with potentially hundreds of sellers, and both the seller and the guild want you to buy from them. What incentive is there for them to dramatically overprice their goods when you can simply *gasp* go to a different trader?Drachenfier wrote: »People will only undercut until they can no longer make a profit, at which point a price will stabilize.
In other words, they undercut until the item is worthless. Thanks for acknowledging that.
The guild traders by their diversified nature allow you to price items for what you think is a fair price. Not at the lowest possible price in the entire world. While at the same time you pray someone buys it before you yourself are undercut and can no longer make even the smallest profit.
You need to step out of the AH mentality that you're being ripped off if you can't buy something at the absolute rock bottom of the market at any given time.
It's not bull. That's how supply and demand works. When supply exceeds demand, value bottoms out, and has been a thing since caveman bartering. The only way to keep your value high on common goods is by artificially limiting the supply, which is why you are in favor of the current trading system, because that's exactly what it does.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »
Wut? They were not even talking about gouging. lol
Oddly, they were talking about one of the very reasons that Zos said they wanted this current system and pretty sure they can see how you twisted the comments. Regardless, the guild traders are what they are and are here to stay for a long time.
Cheers and enjoy the game.1 -
Marolf✭✭✭What trading guilds have you joined that require a 150k fee per week? That is laughable, I've been playing ESO for years on PC/ Console and I've never seen a guild with a fee that high lol.3 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
But exploiting crafters to the point where they can only sell their wares below cost is ok, right?
That's what happens with 99% of the crafted stuff in GW2.
Also, there are several items in ESO that you can only sell at guild traders for below the price you would get by vendoring them.
If the market is flooded, you can't expect to charge more than it's worth, that's just the way the world works. Only in fragmented and isolated markets like ESO can you sell your wares for more than they're worth, which is why so many of the ESO 'traders' don't want an AH.
The markets are fragmented to prevent flooding though which is why it rarely happens in ESO.
"Only in fragmented and isolated markets like ESO can you sell your wares for more than they're worth"
Supply and Demand? It seems weird you understand this when it comes to gAH and market flooding but not when you take the exact same system and break it up a little bit. It's still the same system you just have to actually use it. If they're selling more more then they're worth, you don't get to dictate the prices but you can blame them on guild traders as a boogey man.
"which is why so many of the ESO 'traders' don't want an AH."
True, I do like selling my wares at actual market value and not significantly lower like with a gAH. I also like new players being able to use it the traders and how actually easy it is to get into a guild with a trader which they won't be able to have with an AH.2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
But exploiting crafters to the point where they can only sell their wares below cost is ok, right?
That's what happens with 99% of the crafted stuff in GW2.
Also, there are several items in ESO that you can only sell at guild traders for below the price you would get by vendoring them.
If the market is flooded, you can't expect to charge more than it's worth, that's just the way the world works. Only in fragmented and isolated markets like ESO can you sell your wares for more than they're worth, which is why so many of the ESO 'traders' don't want an AH.
I know that. What I'm saying is that the market in ESO is already flooded with common stuff and nobody is selling them for more than what they are worth (if they try, it most likely won't sell). I mean, look at the style pages from the last event. They started off high and now you can barely give them away.
So in that sense, the economy is fine (and remember that you can trade outside of guild traders, which is not the case in all games with a central market).Didn't read thread, but can tell what's in it without reading it. Insincere armchair jr. college economists are posting moronic, out of context claims of "AH bad" that -always- posture in bad faith against a full unregulated, uncapped AH instead of a limited one and also omit necessary context such as the fact that the game publisher has 100% control of the amount of game currency, 100% control of loot tables and item drop rates, or attempt to introduce red herrings ala "but in that other game..."
These people would be idiots if they were sincere, but they aren't. They are protecting their "angle" of flipping items for gain that sane people refuse to spend time in a game doing for play money. Not idiots, just plain dishonest.
Also, probably some stale "beating dead horse" memes in the thread at this point, if not there will be soon.
ESO trading functionality is complete ***. Load screen after load after load, zoning, the traders themselves with their own load screens. The unaugmented search functionality sucks out loud.
The system is the way it is for publisher benefit, not player benefit. Gives the illusion of more activity in the game, creates yet another time sink MMOs are famous for to keep you in the store longer, indirectly promotes crown store purchases by players who get fed up with using the broken *** system to get the things they need and just buy them with real $$.
One of the beauties of ESO is that you can get everything yourself if you don't like the prices people are selling things for.
That's what I did when I saw what people were charging for a staff I needed for a build. Just went and played the game for a bit until I got it.
If you are suggesting that drop rates should be lowered with the introduction of an AH so that people are forced to buy things from farmers, I respectfully disagree.
If you are suggesting that an AH should have a 35% tax rate like BDO does, then we can start talking.
The Moot Councillor0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
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Bots already drove the price of mats down. But people still play the game and apparently buy enough from them to keep them profitable enough to continue.Anotherone773 wrote: »Global auction houses are like Walmart and Amazon. They drive down prices to the point where everyone quits but Walmart and Amazon. Except in this case they quit the game.
Of course you wouldn't. You'd be in a guild for, you know, SOCIAL reasons. Like trying to get help with putting together a DLC dungeon run. Or getting help with raids with a progression guild. Or being with other players who share your interests like Housing and Roleplaying.Anotherone773 wrote: »No with a single trader you are limited to everyone on the server. Why would you be in a trading guild without a trader? Thats silly.
Instead of access to guild stores being such a priority.Edited by Dusk_Coven on November 15, 2019 6:30PM1 -
buttaface✭✭✭✭✭Contaminate wrote: »easily botted
And right on schedule, with nothing left, they start spouting utter absurdities. ROFL "easily botted" ...my sides. Arguendo, even bots add liquidity, and there is a very strong, tough to rebut presumption in markets that more liquidity is good for all participants. This simple FACT of markets 101 is always and will continue to be ignored by the flippers and other play money trough feeders. Arguendo 2, anyone trying to "bot" a game AH with the steep carry costs in ESO will swiftly go broke. Black boxes IRL can only function in a low commission/fee environment that doesn't exist in games, and certainly doesn't exist in ESO.Contaminate wrote: »Make it a free for all where rare items are easily rounded up for flipping and profit. Flood common items into it where nothing common has value beyond vendor pricing, making entry into trading difficult where it’s currently extremely easy.
And even after having their perpetual fallacies (rationalizations) pointed out over and over, they KEEP ON posturing against the straw man of a totally unregulated, uncapped, unlimited AH and not an item capped, time limited central trading function.Contaminate wrote: »The same people in favor of a removal of the decentralized system don’t outcry against bots “because they keep prices low”, never mind that they are unfeasible competition for people who actually farm mats to make their gold.
One of these things is not like the other. Bots that pick nodes or follow one live player attacking mobs are a far cry from bots that could somehow profit from a universal, central, LIMITED trading function with the types of HIGH carry costs in ESO. DO tell exactly how such would work and be sure to include the algorithms used for this "botting." LOL.Contaminate wrote: »The anti-trader crowd still hasn’t presented any reasonable alternative gold sink to the billions removed from the game each week via guild trader bids. You still haven’t presented a global system that 1) can’t be botted easily and 2) could actually function with the horrendous software design that crashes the game when more than 1000 people try to use the LFG tool . Until you can do that, you have no leg to stand on.
1. To REPEAT, a limited central function need not displace the trading guild system.
2. To REPEAT, ZOS has complete control over the amount of gold in circulation, the loot tables, and trading fees. '
3. A central trading functionality that HUNDREDS of games manage without performance issues would somehow *** performance? And the current broke-ass system full of loading screens and unnecessary travel and character loading doesn't affect performance at all I suppose? LOL.
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ZOS_RogerJ✭✭✭✭Greetings! We've removed some posts from this thread. Be sure when posting to keep the forums a civil and constructive platform for the game and it's community as a whole.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site3 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭"wtlonewolf20 wrote: »I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
Well since the company has absolute 100% control over the amount of game currency, the drop tables, and all fees in the game at the drop of a hat whenever they want, what's your REAL reason? Because you haven't posted a credible one.
And in your response you essentially nailed the credible reasons why it wont change. But to spell it out. To avoid all of the downsides of a Global Trade Store ZOS would have to do a revamp of the whole economy. Change all of the loot tables, all of the drop rates etc. Then they would have to address the issue of all of the gold and items that can be converted into gold that are currently in game. There are players out there that have millions in gold in their craft bags.
Then they would have to come up with a very effective gold sink.
Then they would have to build servers able to catalog and allow searching for a lot more transactions. Zos has proven that their servers cant handle peak traffic for current tools.
So we are not just talking about a single change in values here. There are real costs involved and in the end I dont think that ZOS is going to see the value unless All trading just stops or there is complete economic stagnation.
Even then IMO i dont think a swap in system will make the end result much different. We will be trading zone infinite load screens for infinite search screens. Trade guilds will become elite clubs where only the rarest of items reside. Bots will be everywhere on the store.
either way people like me will make tons of gold. The one key difference is that right now I drop about 50 to 60 percent of the gold I earn out of the economy because I like my guilds and I like my traders. I like the guild wars and the competition. Remove the competition between the guilds and what do I do with my gold? It will still accumulate and it will not be removed from the game. And since the direct competition is gone as well as the group identity I have no incentive to remove gold from the game beyond the minimum requirements.3 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »"wtlonewolf20 wrote: »I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
Well since the company has absolute 100% control over the amount of game currency, the drop tables, and all fees in the game at the drop of a hat whenever they want, what's your REAL reason? Because you haven't posted a credible one.
And in your response you essentially nailed the credible reasons why it wont change. But to spell it out. To avoid all of the downsides of a Global Trade Store ZOS would have to do a revamp of the whole economy. Change all of the loot tables, all of the drop rates etc. Then they would have to address the issue of all of the gold and items that can be converted into gold that are currently in game. There are players out there that have millions in gold in their craft bags.
Then they would have to come up with a very effective gold sink.
Then they would have to build servers able to catalog and allow searching for a lot more transactions. Zos has proven that their servers cant handle peak traffic for current tools.
So we are not just talking about a single change in values here. There are real costs involved and in the end I dont think that ZOS is going to see the value unless All trading just stops or there is complete economic stagnation.
Even then IMO i dont think a swap in system will make the end result much different. We will be trading zone infinite load screens for infinite search screens. Trade guilds will become elite clubs where only the rarest of items reside. Bots will be everywhere on the store.
either way people like me will make tons of gold. The one key difference is that right now I drop about 50 to 60 percent of the gold I earn out of the economy because I like my guilds and I like my traders. I like the guild wars and the competition. Remove the competition between the guilds and what do I do with my gold? It will still accumulate and it will not be removed from the game. And since the direct competition is gone as well as the group identity I have no incentive to remove gold from the game beyond the minimum requirements.
Gotta add like it or not the in game economy is very healthy with the system we have now. No real stagnation nor is there any run away inflation.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."4 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wtlonewolf20 wrote: »"wtlonewolf20 wrote: »I dont defend the existing system because of addons. I defend it because it provides a massive gold sink to the economy, a global trader would be a drain on the servers (until improved), and it would require an economic reset to implement.
Well since the company has absolute 100% control over the amount of game currency, the drop tables, and all fees in the game at the drop of a hat whenever they want, what's your REAL reason? Because you haven't posted a credible one.
And in your response you essentially nailed the credible reasons why it wont change. But to spell it out. To avoid all of the downsides of a Global Trade Store ZOS would have to do a revamp of the whole economy. Change all of the loot tables, all of the drop rates etc. Then they would have to address the issue of all of the gold and items that can be converted into gold that are currently in game. There are players out there that have millions in gold in their craft bags.
Then they would have to come up with a very effective gold sink.
Then they would have to build servers able to catalog and allow searching for a lot more transactions. Zos has proven that their servers cant handle peak traffic for current tools.
So we are not just talking about a single change in values here. There are real costs involved and in the end I dont think that ZOS is going to see the value unless All trading just stops or there is complete economic stagnation.
Even then IMO i dont think a swap in system will make the end result much different. We will be trading zone infinite load screens for infinite search screens. Trade guilds will become elite clubs where only the rarest of items reside. Bots will be everywhere on the store.
either way people like me will make tons of gold. The one key difference is that right now I drop about 50 to 60 percent of the gold I earn out of the economy because I like my guilds and I like my traders. I like the guild wars and the competition. Remove the competition between the guilds and what do I do with my gold? It will still accumulate and it will not be removed from the game. And since the direct competition is gone as well as the group identity I have no incentive to remove gold from the game beyond the minimum requirements.
Gotta add like it or not the in game economy is very healthy with the system we have now. No real stagnation nor is there any run away inflation.
Yep. I absolutely hated wow's economy, although you could make some gold if you could craft high enough level gear. It was filled with bot farmed goods, shady listing tactics, cornered markets on items. I'll say it may of changed, I left wow after MoP.
I didn't even participate in eso's trading until about 3 months ago and am in a very cheap dues, very stable guild that has zero pressure. I've probably made over 2 million (not sure because I spend it almost as quick as I make it) in those 3 months mostly dumping excess mats from my surveys.
This system is only as difficult as the individual makes it."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard3 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
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And right on schedule, with nothing left, they start spouting utter absurdities. ROFL "easily botted" ...my sides. Arguendo, even bots add liquidity, and there is a very strong, tough to rebut presumption in markets that more liquidity is good for all participants. This simple FACT of markets 101 is always and will continue to be ignored by the flippers and other play money trough feeders. Arguendo 2, anyone trying to "bot" a game AH with the steep carry costs in ESO will swiftly go broke. Black boxes IRL can only function in a low commission/fee environment that doesn't exist in games, and certainly doesn't exist in ESO.
I've literally never flipped a single item and I have 5.5million gold from selling mats I gathered myself, motifs I earned myself, items i crafted myself, weapons I earned myself. Your idealized system directly hurts people who make their gold by selling things they earn. You've directly said you support a flooded market under the guise of "more liquidity".
You dare to say "gathering bots are good" and you expect me to even humor the rest of the nonsense you wrote? No, you've made it abundantly clear you want things cheap and easy no matter how much negativity it brings with it. God forbid it takes five minutes to find something rare.
People have already gone over how they've set up market manipulation gimmicks in other games with a global AH that made it incredibly easy, in this thread and in the many other pointless global ah threads that pop up. Some even mentioned they did use market bots to keep things running.
And regardless, like I said before, until you have a viable alternative to the billions of gold sunk from the game every week, the major sink that's kept inflation from ever being a real problem in ESO, then I have nothing left to say to you. I've heard one suggestion for a comparable gold sink, and it summed up to "screw the entire rest of the playerbase, make everything cost much more to repair, for outfit changes, for housing, cut gold payouts, reduce drop rates."
Even you farce of a suggestion boils down to "reduce drops rates on gold and good items, as long as I only have to look in one place for anything"Edited by Contaminate on November 16, 2019 7:37AM4 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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Did they? They are still profitable to me.Dusk_Coven wrote: »
Bots already drove the price of mats down. But people still play the game and apparently buy enough from them to keep them profitable enough to continue.Anotherone773 wrote: »Global auction houses are like Walmart and Amazon. They drive down prices to the point where everyone quits but Walmart and Amazon. Except in this case they quit the game.
I can be in 5 guilds and most guilds are multi functional. Even my trade guilds are multi functional, just trading is the primary feature. so the guild will spend more effort to get a decent trader.Of course you wouldn't. You'd be in a guild for, you know, SOCIAL reasons. Like trying to get help with putting together a DLC dungeon run. Or getting help with raids with a progression guild. Or being with other players who share your interests like Housing and Roleplaying.
Instead of access to guild stores being such a priority.
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »No. ESO's system makes trading and visiting places all over the Tamriel worthwhile.
What you suggest is just a dumb goodies exchange, this maybe more effective to buyer, but less profitable to seller, which means there will be less actual sellers and there will be ton of crap sold by everybody.
Thanks god, AH most probably will cause server meltdown, so we won't see this boring thingie in nearest time.
The only thing I can figure, based on your response, is that you have no idea how an actual AH works.
You want to make 'visiting places all over Tamriel' worthwhile? Complete Pathfinder achievements. Having to waste hours moving to the same 20 spots in zones all over the map is NOT ' visiting places all over Tamriel '.
The bottom line is - The GAH allows ALL players to sell whatever they want, whenever they want, quickly and efficiently. The Trader system does NOT allow all players to sell, is Not quick for the buyer to find what they are looking for, and is NOT efficient in any way.
The experience of using the Trader system to find something can be defined as - IMHO - ' A Frustrating Waste of Time and Effort '.
I played WoW and I highly disliked GAH. Even more, that GAH was one of the reasons why I quit. Again, what you propose turns fun and interesting trading system in ESO in "quick and efficient exchange". This is just another layer of simplification. Just look at how popular WoW Classic is. It's not only about nostalgia, it is about game which is not over-simplified to became tasteless.
Now, let's face truth. Trade guilds are always recruiting and there are ton of trading guilds which have laughably small fees/requirements. Like REALLY small. Something like 10k trading requirement per week, If somebody wants to trade he can easily join any of this guilds. Sell at least 1 roe or 1 hakeijo per week and you are good to go.
First off, a GAH is one reason why you quit a game? Seriously? What did the place where you can buy and sell anytime, without restriction, do to you that you didn't like? And why would I look at WoW classic? I looked at WoW when it originally came out years ago and said ' no thanks'. I have no interest in examining it again. You seem to make a lot of assumptions that you think are facts.
You say the current system is "fun and interesting". Except that is it NOT FUN for a large number of players. Just because something is 'Fun' for You, does not mean that it must therefore be 'Fun' for everyone.
The basic concept of ANY system is to give players a method of buying items they want and selling items they want. THAT is the Purpose of whatever system is put in place. The Purpose is not for 'Fun'. The Purpose is essentially a Game Mechanic. If your 'Fun' is basically messing around with the trader system, then you are missing a lot of what ESO has to offer.
Now let's face Real truth. Your belittling people for playing the game is insulting. Many players do NOT obtain a perfect roe every week. Neither do they find a hakejo to sell. The requirement that you Must join a trading guild and pay in order to be able to just sell stuff you happen to pick up while playing the game is unfair at the outset. Buying and selling should be a basic part of the game with no strings attached.
How about we apply the same point of view to PvP. Have the game deny players the right to PvP unless they join a PvP only Guild. And those guilds can set whatever level/dps/CP/etc requirements (as well as monetary requirements) or else the player is Not allowed into the PvP areas.
That's fair, right?
IMHO
Edited by barney2525 on November 16, 2019 11:22AM6 -
Milo✭✭✭Oh great another Auctionhouse thread. Awesome!
First off, MAYBE if you would have an auctionhouse at the start then PERHAPS, it would be better for the average player.
But to swtich now? This is just not possible. Not without a SIGNIFICANT goldsink.
But to be honest, i have never seen a more healthy economy than the ESO one. There is no inflation whatsoever, prices of some items do even deflate. And people literally PAY for the option to have a trader. Sure, some people make profit of the tradingguilds, but there are also guys, who just farm or trade or something, JUST to have a trader for their Guild.
ESO has a FULL community just for trading. Not to mention that if you would be thrown in the world, an auctionhouse wouldnt make sense (i know that some people ignore the roleplay part of the game, but for others its REALLY important)
Also, it helps to keep the cities "busy". You can think of it what you want. But the trading system is one of the reasons so many people run around in Eldenroot, Wayrest, Rawl etc.
Thats also the reason why we dont have the option to do crafting daylies in our house. The game would just be empty.
I know there will always be diffrent opnions. Some people like the system some don't.
But you cannot seriously think that you can just copy paste a auctionhouse in this game, without breaking the whole economy apart. Not to mention that you would KILL a whole "subcommunity", however small you think it is.
It's part of the game. You cannot just change it.5 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭barney2525 wrote: »How about we apply the same point of view to PvP. Have the game deny players the right to PvP unless they join a ... Guild. And those guilds can set whatever level/dps/CP/etc requirements (as well as monetary requirements) or else the player is Not allowed into the PvP areas.
That's fair, right?
To be honest, that doesn't sound inherently bad.
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TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
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Milo✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
Where is this conception coming from? You do not need to pay anyone. There are more than 200 Guilds with a trader on every server each week. Surely one of them doesnt need anything from you to sell stuff.3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.1 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
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Milo✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
Part of it goes to the guild but the actual point was that the players/guilds have no control over it. They cant increase or decrease the tax which is why they got creative with side games to generate revenue. As competition for traders increased because the number of players increased at a far greater rate than the number of traders, guilds had to come up with mini games to generate revenue.
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TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 16, 2019 4:10PM0 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
Part of it goes to the guild but the actual point was that the players/guilds have no control over it. They cant increase or decrease the tax which is why they got creative with side games to generate revenue. As competition for traders increased because the number of players increased at a far greater rate than the number of traders, guilds had to come up with mini games to generate revenue.
Understood. I also get that guild traders have to be paid for, but that is kind of my point. I’d be very surprised if there were zero profit guild leaders out there. I would rather my gold disappear into the system (like in wow if I recall) than line some stranger’s pockets.
Just my preference, people don’t have to like it.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 16, 2019 4:36PM2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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Guild leaders do keep varying portions of the money that is generated in their guild but that is from things like raffles and such in which you volunteer to put money into. A few will try to scam players by requiring high fees and having no trader or even any raffles/drawings for the money put into the guild. But most guild leaders tend to be legit.TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
Part of it goes to the guild but the actual point was that the players/guilds have no control over it. They cant increase or decrease the tax which is why they got creative with side games to generate revenue. As competition for traders increased because the number of players increased at a far greater rate than the number of traders, guilds had to come up with mini games to generate revenue.
Understood. I also get that guild traders have to be paid for, but that is kind of my point. I’d be very surprised if there were zero profit guild leaders out there. I would rather my gold disappear into the system (like in wow if I recall) than line some stranger’s pockets.
Just my preference, people don’t have to like it.
People complain about guild leaders and that they (can) get rich off running a guild. But this is the same as the CEO argument pay in real life. 95% of people do not have a clue at the amount of effort and time that are put into either of those. Its not all sitting back counting your income. I know executives in the corporate world and they are some of the hardest working people i have ever met. I also know guild leaders and have been one myself many times. It is a lot of work even with good trustworthy officers.
I no longer run guilds anymore because of the amount of work needed. When i did, to keep it running, i was constantly managing while everyone else was playing. I got to play maybe 10-20% of the time i was online and i had to multitask or ignore everyone to do that.
Guild leaders also invest a lot into attuned crafting stations. Id say most earn any income they personally get from running a guild. They give up a lot of time they could spend generating income like the rest of us to run the guilds. Just like in the corporate world though you always have the stereotypical bad ones that everyone remembers and uses as an example even though they are the exception not the rule. In fact a bad guild leader is was sparked this entire thread from my understanding.
No on is talking about the good one over there that is going to use his only play time this weekend to farm items for next weeks raffle because he didnt get enough donations and the trader cost 4 times more to keep than the guild makes in taxes. Or the one over there who invest all of her in game money in creating a useful guild hall for her guild. Only the G/L taking noobs to the cleaners is talked about.
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Milo✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
You really need to look at the fees when posting the next item. There are two different fees. A large fee goes to the black hole in the game as a gold sink. Another portion goes to the guild to help with bidding on guild traders, which in the end is another gold sink via that different mechanic.4 -
TheTwistedRune✭✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
Edited by TheTwistedRune on November 16, 2019 6:27PM0 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
It is recognized that an auction-house has listing fees and taxes. With a global or regional system there is an increase in the number of listings for this gold sink and is spread out more evenly. The current gold sink system in this game is highly imbalanced and needs some adjustments with some new means also created whether the system is changed or not.
Keeping a Regional trader bidding along with adding in a limited open listing to that regional market. This maintains the trader social structure while adding in open selling. I've listed the details several times in this thread already so go look at it. Using a regional market system reduces search times as well as balance trader selling locations in a region
You have said the market is healthy, it is not and again I have detailed that already. This hybrid approach allows to grant access to the occasional seller and still have the formal trader structure for those that desire a greater participation.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »TheTwistedRune wrote: »Global Auction House. Because why should I pay another player just so I can sell items I own?
3 trade guilds, zero paid to guild leaders outside of game set tax. I find you another dozen, manually running around, in less than 10 minutes that also have no mandatory fees.
Game set tax. Doesn’t that go to another player?
And where do you think does the tax go? So you want an auctionhouse without taxes? What kind of dreams are you having?
If you are going to get fresh, learn to write English properly.
Okay, im sorry. My entire point is done and dusted, because i made an error in my second language. I go hide in my cave! Thanks!
Who said anything about your point being negated? I simply replied in the manner i was addressed. Incidentally, to clarify, I simply prefer a system similar to WOW's, where other players are not involved directly in what you sell.
Now I will go back to my dreaming, and you can go back to your cave.
I had thought pretty much everything about WoW was in a cave.2