We are currently investigating issues some players are having logging into the European PC/Mac megaserver. We will update as new information becomes available.
There are players that struggle with the current overland difficulty...
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Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard2 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭
yeah against a single trash fodder unit, go do that to a delve boss and they'll probably floor you without any skills, CP, and just swinging. Or go try and fight any group of enemies that isn't a single trash fodder unit. Your video is pretty much the worst possible example of what new players experience. Heck up it a notch and go to Summerset, Morrowind or N. Elsweyr where enemies all have about 50% more HP just to make it worse for these players.
I have a friend who was CP 160 and needed my help with a delve because he was built so poorly he couldn't beat the boss even at that level. It was a bit sad, but not everybody is big brains with this MMO stuff.
Then imagine how these players feel stumbling across World Bosses they can never beat solo, and nobody ever shows up to because the zones are all dead. Yeah I can definitely see where their frustrations come form.
It's made even worse when ZOS constantly nerfs to lower the ceiling us vets are at, which hurts those newbies way more than it hurts us.
Same friend I mentioned above struggles with the idea of a rotation and weaving, he just cannot grasp that idea, and thus spams abilities and loses all his resources.
I've said many times in the past that I'd like SOME overland enemies to be as strong as a delve boss. Those enemies with special HP bars like giants, trolls, mammoths, daedroth.
Again, narrow it down to the lowest common denominator to make an argument. New players are the minority at this point in this game's life.
And wtf, I'm CP like 402 or something and I wouldn't even fight a WB solo. I'm not ready to ruin my experience knowing I can solo a damn WB.
A WORLD BOSS.
I don't know about your friend but I have a history of learning disability as a child and I know that bars gone = bad. I don't believe your claim. Imaginary friends are not real friends.
Makes up facts about new player numbers.
Calls someone else a liar.
M'kay.....3 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets.
If this is true then you're defending a company denying business 101.Edited by Vhozek on November 16, 2019 5:28AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭
yeah against a single trash fodder unit, go do that to a delve boss and they'll probably floor you without any skills, CP, and just swinging. Or go try and fight any group of enemies that isn't a single trash fodder unit. Your video is pretty much the worst possible example of what new players experience. Heck up it a notch and go to Summerset, Morrowind or N. Elsweyr where enemies all have about 50% more HP just to make it worse for these players.
I have a friend who was CP 160 and needed my help with a delve because he was built so poorly he couldn't beat the boss even at that level. It was a bit sad, but not everybody is big brains with this MMO stuff.
Then imagine how these players feel stumbling across World Bosses they can never beat solo, and nobody ever shows up to because the zones are all dead. Yeah I can definitely see where their frustrations come form.
It's made even worse when ZOS constantly nerfs to lower the ceiling us vets are at, which hurts those newbies way more than it hurts us.
Same friend I mentioned above struggles with the idea of a rotation and weaving, he just cannot grasp that idea, and thus spams abilities and loses all his resources.
I've said many times in the past that I'd like SOME overland enemies to be as strong as a delve boss. Those enemies with special HP bars like giants, trolls, mammoths, daedroth.
Again, narrow it down to the lowest common denominator to make an argument. New players are the minority at this point in this game's life.
And wtf, I'm CP like 402 or something and I wouldn't even fight a WB solo. I'm not ready to ruin my experience knowing I can solo a damn WB.
A WORLD BOSS.
I don't know about your friend but I have a history of learning disability as a child and I know that bars gone = bad. I don't believe your claim. Imaginary friends are not real friends.
Makes up facts about new player numbers.
Calls someone else a liar.
M'kay.....
Reading comprehension out the window.
This is how you get to talk with yourself for the rest of this thread.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets.
If this is true then you're defending a company defying business 101.
No you're denying business 101. Game developers almost all exclusively focus on new players versus retaining old ones. Because old ones already paid and are less likely to spend on extra stuff the longer they stay - new ones have yet to pay and are very likely to spend on MTX (things like mount speed, storage, etc.). It's actually a pretty simple concept.
.Edited by lagrue on November 16, 2019 5:14AM"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"3 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets.
If this is true then you're defending a company defying business 101.
Oh really? Customer churn has been a staple of many business for quite some time. In the gaming industry outside of single player titles you have eso's model of buy to play. That's a one time income for the developer. Since no sub is required, and I'd wager the sub numbers for ESO are smaller then you think, the levelling design post 1tam changed to get as many players to make that 1 time purchase as possible. They hope that their shinies sell from the crown store, but the money is still in new purchases bar none."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Is what I keep hearing. Who exactly is struggling with it? Do they pile up 50x enemies on top of themselves?
Sometimes it's a gatherer or bot who just wanted to run past the mob to grab a chest or node. That's why lots of them are sorcs with two pets to pull aggro. Once you are far enough away the pets teleport to you and the enemies lose aggro because you are suddenly too far. And when it doesn't work, they just stand still, die, and rez because it's less work than fighting.
I saw something similar in a delve -- the player ran up to a skyshard with a bunch of adds following, then just stood still and died. That caused the mobs to reset and leave, so they just rezzed and grabbed the skyshard.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on November 16, 2019 5:21AM1 -
SidraWillowsky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You picked perhaps the most unrealistic example out there; I'm not quite sure how you executed that successfully, actually...
I struggled immensely when I started playing and it continued up to the low CP 200s. One single enemy like the one in your video was never the problem. The fact that enemies like that tend to come in groups of at least two was what was killing me. What you're doing in your OP would get you killed if you tried it on mobs that actually reflect what's in game. Or find something that DOES appear alone and kill that- a bear or troll or something. Regardless, a scenario that we actually encounter regularly.
Also, you mention overland difficulty being low but also mention that you've yet to solo world bosses. Do those not count as overland content?
I'm mostly confused about why you're so confused that new people are confused and struggling. I play ESO for the Elder Scrolls part first; the MMO is secondary. This is the only MMO I've played, so maybe more are like this, but go watch footage of someone playing through Skyrim when they're in combat and compare it to ESO. While they're doing just fine with "Sword slash.... Sword slash.... Sword slash... Pause... Fire ball" people in ESO are over here with their "lightattackblockadeoffirelightattackweaponswaplightattackforcepulse". I would hope that one wouldn't pick up an entirely different game and assume that it'd have the same combat system,but even so, ESO's combat system has a learning curve and, perhaps the most detrimental, zero tutorials or in game help.Edited by SidraWillowsky on November 16, 2019 5:37AM4 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »You picked perhaps the most unrealistic example out there; I'm not actually sure how you executed that successfully, actually...
I struggled immensely when I started playing and actually up to the low CP 200s. One single enemy like the one in your video was never the problem. The fact that enemies like that tend to come in groups of at least two was what was killing me. What you're doing in your OP would get you killed if you tried it on mobs that actually reflect what's in game. Or find something that DOES appear alone and kill that- a bear or troll or something. Regardless, a scenario that we actually encounter regularly.
Also, you mention overland difficulty being low but also mention that you've yet to solo world bosses. Do those not count as overland content?
I'm mostly confused about why you're so confused that new people are confused and struggling. I play ESO for the Elder Scrolls part first; the MMO is secondary. This is the only MMO I've played, so maybe more are like this, but go watch footage of someone playing through Skyrim when they're in combat and compare it to ESO. While they're doing just fine with "Sword slash.... Sword slash.... Sword slash... Pause... Fire ball" people in ESO are over here with their "lightattackblockadeoffirelightattackweaponswaplightattackforcepulse". I would hope that one wouldn't pick up an entirely different game and assume that it'd have the same combat system,but even so, ESO's combat system has a learning curve and, perhaps the most detrimental, zero tutorials or in game help.
I know there's more that we could test but I wanted to show 1 enemy at a low level simply because it also doesn't make sense for a new character to simply pick up a sword from the dirt and kill a murdering machine like a goblin who is part of a faction with full armor and skills.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
nickl413✭✭✭✭To my knowledge Steam charts do not show new players. Can you link that for me?
yeah against a single trash fodder unit, go do that to a delve boss and they'll probably floor you without any skills, CP, and just swinging. Or go try and fight any group of enemies that isn't a single trash fodder unit. Your video is pretty much the worst possible example of what new players experience. Heck up it a notch and go to Summerset, Morrowind or N. Elsweyr where enemies all have about 50% more HP just to make it worse for these players.
I have a friend who was CP 160 and needed my help with a delve because he was built so poorly he couldn't beat the boss even at that level. It was a bit sad, but not everybody is big brains with this MMO stuff.
Then imagine how these players feel stumbling across World Bosses they can never beat solo, and nobody ever shows up to because the zones are all dead. Yeah I can definitely see where their frustrations come form.
It's made even worse when ZOS constantly nerfs to lower the ceiling us vets are at, which hurts those newbies way more than it hurts us.
Same friend I mentioned above struggles with the idea of a rotation and weaving, he just cannot grasp that idea, and thus spams abilities and loses all his resources.
I don't believe your claim.
Ya um you definitely called him a liar.
1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets.
If this is true then you're defending a company defying business 101.
No you're denying business 101. Game developers almost all exclusively focus on new players versus retaining old ones. Because old ones already paid - new ones have yet to pay. It's actually a pretty simple concept.
.
Oh god.
Hanlon's Razor.
Yes, it applies well to you.
Am I supposed to assume you have any experience with business?
You learn this part at any dumb sells job.
I actually am a game developer and sell games. I might know a thing or two more about this than you
Farming simulator is a very old trick.
I won't let eggplant measuring derail this thread.
You really have nothing substantiate to say huh? You just want to try to insult everybody who disagrees with you, calling people liars, stupid - and now taking jabs at their careers which are actually more relevant to this than anything you bring to the table.
You're pretty certain of your position so why did you come here to lambaste us all if you're so infallible and correct?
I just played 4D chess with you.
You proved to me that Hanlon's Razor applies.
I'm not calling you stupid just ignorant. It's not bad. It just means you could learn from others and sometimes you're wrong because of that.
You didn't play any 4D chess. You think you're some mastermind over there lmao
No but playing 4D chess with someone whos playing 2D chess is easy.
Please stop derailing this thread.
bruh you're the one who derailed this by bringing in Hanlon's Razor and calling me a liar. I was talking about the subject matter until you went off the rails. YOU DERAILED THIS THREAD.
Thankfully I just made a spot in my already full ignore list, just for you
later.
Nobody called you a liar, I'm just saying I won't play this game of leapfrog with you for the same reason you wouldn't trust anyone you don't know to hold your belongings while you tie your shoes.
You literally said "I don't believe your claim" which is the equivalent of saying I'm lying about my claim. If you go into an argument assuming everybody is lying to you, that's pretty closed minded, don't you think? If you're no even willing to give a shred of benefit of the doubt, then talking to you is as effective as talking to a box of rocks.
Lack of reading comprehension is how you end up talking to yourself in my threads.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you are a decent player.. then why would you even care about overland difficulty.. just go do some difficult content & leave the overland to the new players that are learning.
If you absolutely must do overland content but feel it's too easy.. stop wearing set pieces, remove your CP, use white unleveled weapons or your fists & don't heal.
Because quests, storylines, new DLCs all is overland and when it's so freaking easy I can't force my self to do it, I'm literally getting bored after few minutes. Dude on my second account where I had no gear, no CPs just one skill I could finish every god darn quest I wanted. This is the reason why many, many people doesn't enjoy questing anymore. I used to love it, I have 3 toons with Cadwells gold finished, but it all was when we had vet zones, when it actually meant something.I'm done with this game because of ZOS pushing us into Vengeance, because they don't know how to fix Cyrodiil.3 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »Long time ago it was easy to die in the starter areas of a mmorpg. Not anymore. My guess is Im old fashioned.
Most MMOs have mobs with set levels so certain enemies in a starting area can end up being significantly stronger than you which helps add challenge. This game all enemies scale to your level.
more like you scale down from the mobs level as you level. a level 1 player actually gets huge buffs to their stats. if you take a level 50+ player with no skill points/champion points spent, armor on, no food buff, no pots, etc, etc, that level 50+ player will be much weaker then a player at level 1. mobs dont change at all, they always have the same stats.
Yep. The hardest the game gets is from level 50cp1- 50cp160. You feel every bit of the mobs already being at cp160.
Overall it's probably designed this way so that for a brand new player it gets more challenging the further you level. Along the way you learn how to gain back that power loss through sets, item quality, enchants, pots, etc.
Bottom line, the levelling system is designed for brand spanking new players, not vets that are alt-oholics. I think it's actually one of the better design choices in the game, especially since player churn, not player retention seems to be priority. Gotta ease new players in if you are going to count on always having a high percentage of new players.
I'll quote myself only because it got buried there.
The whole levelling design is for churn. If it's not obvious by now, the game is focused on getting new players, not keeping vets.
If this is true then you're defending a company defying business 101.
No you're denying business 101. Game developers almost all exclusively focus on new players versus retaining old ones. Because old ones already paid - new ones have yet to pay. It's actually a pretty simple concept.
.
Oh god.
Hanlon's Razor.
Yes, it applies well to you.
Am I supposed to assume you have any experience with business?
You learn this part at any dumb sells job.
I actually am a game developer and sell games. I might know a thing or two more about this than you
Farming simulator is a very old trick.
I won't let eggplant measuring derail this thread.
You really have nothing substantiate to say huh? You just want to try to insult everybody who disagrees with you, calling people liars, stupid - and now taking jabs at their careers which are actually more relevant to this than anything you bring to the table.
You're pretty certain of your position so why did you come here to lambaste us all if you're so infallible and correct?
I just played 4D chess with you.
You proved to me that Hanlon's Razor applies.
I'm not calling you stupid just ignorant. It's not bad. It just means you could learn from others and sometimes you're wrong because of that.
You didn't play any 4D chess. You think you're some mastermind over there lmao
No but playing 4D chess with someone whos playing 2D chess is easy.
Please stop derailing this thread.
bruh you're the one who derailed this by bringing in Hanlon's Razor and calling me a liar. I was talking about the subject matter until you went off the rails. YOU DERAILED THIS THREAD.
Thankfully I just made a spot in my already full ignore list, just for you later.
Nobody called you a liar, I'm just saying I won't play this game of leapfrog with you for the same reason you wouldn't trust anyone you don't know to hold your belongings while you tie your shoes.
You literally said "I don't believe your claim" which is the equivalent of saying I'm lying about my claim. If you go into an argument assuming everybody is lying to you, that's pretty closed minded, don't you think? If you're no even willing to give a shred of benefit of the doubt, then talking to you is as effective as talking to a box of rocks.
Lack of reading comprehension is how you end up talking to yourself in my threads.
Trust me there's no lack of reading comprehension, just you trying to weasel out of responsibility for everything you've said."You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"3 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SidraWillowsky wrote: »You picked perhaps the most unrealistic example out there; I'm not actually sure how you executed that successfully, actually...
I struggled immensely when I started playing and actually up to the low CP 200s. One single enemy like the one in your video was never the problem. The fact that enemies like that tend to come in groups of at least two was what was killing me. What you're doing in your OP would get you killed if you tried it on mobs that actually reflect what's in game. Or find something that DOES appear alone and kill that- a bear or troll or something. Regardless, a scenario that we actually encounter regularly.
Also, you mention overland difficulty being low but also mention that you've yet to solo world bosses. Do those not count as overland content?
I'm mostly confused about why you're so confused that new people are confused and struggling. I play ESO for the Elder Scrolls part first; the MMO is secondary. This is the only MMO I've played, so maybe more are like this, but go watch footage of someone playing through Skyrim when they're in combat and compare it to ESO. While they're doing just fine with "Sword slash.... Sword slash.... Sword slash... Pause... Fire ball" people in ESO are over here with their "lightattackblockadeoffirelightattackweaponswaplightattackforcepulse". I would hope that one wouldn't pick up an entirely different game and assume that it'd have the same combat system,but even so, ESO's combat system has a learning curve and, perhaps the most detrimental, zero tutorials or in game help.
I know there's more that we could test but I wanted to show 1 enemy at a low level simply because it also doesn't make sense for a new character to simply pick up a sword from the dirt and kill a murdering machine like a goblin who is part of a faction with full armor and skills.
So you're on the "return to pre T1" bandwagon then?1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »SidraWillowsky wrote: »You picked perhaps the most unrealistic example out there; I'm not actually sure how you executed that successfully, actually...
I struggled immensely when I started playing and actually up to the low CP 200s. One single enemy like the one in your video was never the problem. The fact that enemies like that tend to come in groups of at least two was what was killing me. What you're doing in your OP would get you killed if you tried it on mobs that actually reflect what's in game. Or find something that DOES appear alone and kill that- a bear or troll or something. Regardless, a scenario that we actually encounter regularly.
Also, you mention overland difficulty being low but also mention that you've yet to solo world bosses. Do those not count as overland content?
I'm mostly confused about why you're so confused that new people are confused and struggling. I play ESO for the Elder Scrolls part first; the MMO is secondary. This is the only MMO I've played, so maybe more are like this, but go watch footage of someone playing through Skyrim when they're in combat and compare it to ESO. While they're doing just fine with "Sword slash.... Sword slash.... Sword slash... Pause... Fire ball" people in ESO are over here with their "lightattackblockadeoffirelightattackweaponswaplightattackforcepulse". I would hope that one wouldn't pick up an entirely different game and assume that it'd have the same combat system,but even so, ESO's combat system has a learning curve and, perhaps the most detrimental, zero tutorials or in game help.
I know there's more that we could test but I wanted to show 1 enemy at a low level simply because it also doesn't make sense for a new character to simply pick up a sword from the dirt and kill a murdering machine like a goblin who is part of a faction with full armor and skills.
So you're on the "return to pre T1" bandwagon then?
I don't know. I didn't play before One Tamriel but I did hear it was more difficult.
Wouldn't you agree that it would be silly for anyone to agree they got the formula absolutely perfect the FIRST time they tried it? Sure, One Tamriel was good because it got more people involved but there's no way it was perfect. It's easy to say business is good when your product is free. In this case, killing anything is free.Edited by Vhozek on November 16, 2019 5:43AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have played both WoW and RIFT - both of which back when I played had a "pre-1T" sort of setup. I dealt with it. It wasn't.... fun. Because you could (and I did, not having much previous experience, though by the time I left WoW and ended up in RIFT was less of an issue) wind up in areas where death was instantaneous.
I like 1T - because I can follow a storyline wherever it goes without worrying about dying. And with gimped internet, THAT is a major concern at all times.2 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I have played both WoW and RIFT - both of which back when I played had a "pre-1T" sort of setup. I dealt with it. It wasn't.... fun. Because you could (and I did, not having much previous experience, though by the time I left WoW and ended up in RIFT was less of an issue) wind up in areas where death was instantaneous.
I like 1T - because I can follow a storyline wherever it goes without worrying about dying. And with gimped internet, THAT is a major concern at all times.
Sure, but overland difficulty could still increase without having to pin players to anything.
They could add lifesteal enchants to the starter weapons they provide you and more starting armor with some enchants.
Whoever wants the game to actually be difficult will destroy those starting items.
It would be the same way it is today except removing gear would actually have an impact.Edited by Vhozek on November 16, 2019 5:55AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sylvermynx wrote: »I have played both WoW and RIFT - both of which back when I played had a "pre-1T" sort of setup. I dealt with it. It wasn't.... fun. Because you could (and I did, not having much previous experience, though by the time I left WoW and ended up in RIFT was less of an issue) wind up in areas where death was instantaneous.
I like 1T - because I can follow a storyline wherever it goes without worrying about dying. And with gimped internet, THAT is a major concern at all times.
Sure, but overland difficulty could still increase without having to pin players to anything.
They could add lifesteal enchants to the starter weapons they provide you and more starting armor with some enchants.
Whoever wants the game to actually be difficult will destroy those starting items.
It would be the same way it is today except removing gear would actually have an impact.
I'm not convinced that's a viable alternative. I'd have to see it in action. For me, the bottom line is ALWAYS going to be the gimped internet. I'm never (in what remains of my lifetime) going to have the sort of access the rest of the world has as a.... right.... I guess.0 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sylvermynx wrote: »Sylvermynx wrote: »I have played both WoW and RIFT - both of which back when I played had a "pre-1T" sort of setup. I dealt with it. It wasn't.... fun. Because you could (and I did, not having much previous experience, though by the time I left WoW and ended up in RIFT was less of an issue) wind up in areas where death was instantaneous.
I like 1T - because I can follow a storyline wherever it goes without worrying about dying. And with gimped internet, THAT is a major concern at all times.
Sure, but overland difficulty could still increase without having to pin players to anything.
They could add lifesteal enchants to the starter weapons they provide you and more starting armor with some enchants.
Whoever wants the game to actually be difficult will destroy those starting items.
It would be the same way it is today except removing gear would actually have an impact.
I'm not convinced that's a viable alternative. I'd have to see it in action. For me, the bottom line is ALWAYS going to be the gimped internet. I'm never (in what remains of my lifetime) going to have the sort of access the rest of the world has as a.... right.... I guess.
What's so bad about your internet?
Also, having good things is not a right. These are privileges.Edited by Vhozek on November 16, 2019 6:01AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ everyone responding to OP. Lesson number one on the internet, "DON'T FEED THE TROLL!"6 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's hughesnet satellite. Yes, it's better than wildblue which I had for years. I live in the back of beyond (eh.... 40 miles one way from REAL broadband) but "real broadband" is not coming to a place with less than 400 full time residents in what's left of my lifetime.... And.... I am not young. I probably will live another 3 or 4 decades (because I have many ancestors who were more than 100 when they died) but *shrug* - one doesn't know....0 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Neither side is right or wrong. There is no such thing as one solution/playstyle fits all. When i first started this game, i came into it with years of experience in the genre. I have even played TES 2-5. I also have a lot of experience in MMOs. While i wouldnt call the game difficult as a noob, I did die often. I still die pretty often but it was far more frustrating then that it is now.
Then i was learning how to just move around, how to fight, how to pull mobs, etc. I didnt know any game mechanics or classes or races or what did what. I looked up real quick a good race for the class i wanted to play but wanted to learn the rest on my own. I had to use soul trap to make more soul gems because i would die and running back to where i was from a shrine took forever. I had to buy potions and lockpicks( potions are horrible about dropping as a newbie but i get dozens on max characters where i just junk them.. its backwards). I didnt have any gear and no money. I remember thinking 100 gold was a lot. I was trying to learn a lot at a time and for it to be more difficult would have been more frustrating and would definitely up the number of people who quit.
My wife is one of those people. She isnt a big fan of the murdery parts as she calls them. She does it sometimes but she is a true carebear. She isnt even a gamer. This is first real video game she has ever played. She knows she will have to do some killing, but because she is not a gamer she struggled to the point i created a new character to level with her. Starting out, i did 90% or more of the damage. She would have never lasted if the game had been much harder even with my help. Today she has no issue doing overland solo(CP350). ZOS would have missed out on her sub money had the game been more difficult.
Today i can create a character, only assign a couple of hundred CP because boring and faceroll most overland in the same gear i would have used a few years ago. My wife can solo on a new character with CP but would struggle some. You see its not a one size fits all. For some it is going to be to hard and for others to easy. It is also going to change based on your knowledge of game play.
Of course someone who has enough game play experience to have 310 CP can easily whack down a mob. Hell, my wife was face punching harpies on a level 12 necro because she through it was funny. only a few pieces of gear, no weapon, no abilities no potions, green food buff though. And of course i can make a video of even my CP800 being owned by a small pull because im playing like im a 7 year old that just started 5 minutes ago. Both videos prove we can manipulate the game to satisfy our argument.
Traditional games made up for this because people who wanted easier contents would just run lower level stuff. People who wanted harder content would fight mobs a few levels above them. Everyone was happy because everyone could play their way. The 1T system doesnt allow that...
But it could. There is nothing saying that we couldnt incorporate a difficulty setting that the user can change. It could only apply to overland but id probably apply it to the whole game except pvp of course. Not everyone wants to play on hard mode. And many people would like to experience all of the content they paid for without dedicating their life to becoming experts at the game.
I would do 5 difficulty settings and bring trials dungeons and overland closer together in terms of hardness. right now you have super easy to insane. Bring them a little closer together. Make overland harder and end game so it doesnt scale like gear from XPacks in WoW.
One the new difficulty scale:
1) Beginner(default for first character): Overland is about 50% easier. Base and early DLC dungeons are about 150% easier. Early trials are 200% easier.
2) Experienced casual: Overland is what it is now. Base and early DLC dungeons are about 75% easier. Early trials are 100% easier.
3) Normal (default): Overland is about 100% harder. Base and early DLC dungeons and early trials are about what they are now.
4) Veteran: Overland is about 250% harder. Base and early DLC dungeons and early trials are 100% harder.
5) Elite: Overland is about 400% harder. Base and early DLC dungeons are about 250% harder. Early trials are 200% harder.
You would change your setting on the gameplay settings screen. The difficulty setting would adjust your interaction with the game world, rather than the actual NPCs. Basically like it is now where all the mobs are the same level, but you scale. You can still play with people on different difficulties just like a level 18 can run a dungeon with a CP810. Once the game world is readjusted the difficulty levels really only act as buff modifiers to the individual. NPC health would be scaled to Elite level( so quite high) and when a person in beginner mode attacked it the modifier would just multiple his damage to bring it in line with Elite.
Loot and XP would scale on based on difficulty. With normal being the current mix of loot. Beginner would be mostly trash drops and low XP. Elite would have a much better chance of higher quality and gold drops in some places. Motifs, more rare blueprints, and other special drops would drop more often at higher end difficulty and very rarely in beginner.
1 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭redgreensunset wrote: »@ everyone responding to OP. Lesson number one on the internet, "DON'T FEED THE TROLL!"
le troll cause you disagree with us and our weak arguments𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have seen players struggle in overland. Yes, it is sad but it is there. Zos has very sound business reasons to keep overland easy just as any major MMORPG of today's world has it.
It is why Zos has tiered difficulty in the various content from dungeons to vet dungeons to trials and so on. It does seem to be a small population that wants overland more challenging as many look to the content designed to be challenging when they want a workout.
Of course Zos should nerf our damage output to compensate for the huge power creep we have experienced over the past few years. Though we saw recently how well that would go over considering the large outcry with a small degree of nerfs.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you are a decent player.. then why would you even care about overland difficulty.. just go do some difficult content & leave the overland to the new players that are learning.
If you absolutely must do overland content but feel it's too easy.. stop wearing set pieces, remove your CP, use white unleveled weapons or your fists & don't heal.
What content? Dungeons, trials? Firstly, need a group which always isn't available, and secondly, there's maybe only a dozen or so, not including vet variants. Arenas? Same thing.
Group content alone isn't enough to sate the need for end game content. There needs to be something else that players can sink far more time into, without the content getting boring or losing value.Sylvermynx wrote: »Some of us struggle because we have sub-optimal connection. Satellite.... it's not "real broadband" - though I do have to say that HughesNet is MAGNITUDES better than wildblue.
I'm sorry, but your connection issues shouldn't impact how the rest of us play.Yes, lets start to narrow it down to the lowest common denominator so we can make a case against difficult overland content.
Think of the people with no arms.
There are actually legally blind people that play this game. While people with physical disabilites that limit their game performance may be in the extreme minority, they do exist. I have to wonder why you feel that they and everyone else should have no way of scaling down the difficulty, instead of keeping things how they are now where you can strap some level 1 gear on your 810cp toon, disable cp, blind fold your self, play with the touch pad, or whatever you gotta do to make things more difficult?
Minorities are minorities for a reason. What they've got, and/or what happened to them sucks, it really does, but it shouldn't impact how the rest of us play.
yeah against a single trash fodder unit, go do that to a delve boss and they'll probably floor you without any skills, CP, and just swinging. Or go try and fight any group of enemies that isn't a single trash fodder unit. Your video is pretty much the worst possible example of what new players experience.
I have a friend who was CP 160 and needed my help with a delve because he was built so poorly he couldn't beat the boss even at that level. It was a bit sad, but not everybody is big brains with this MMO stuff. Some players make nonsensical hybrid decisions and have no idea how to specialize or maximize their builds.
Then imagine how these players feel stumbling across World Bosses they can never beat solo, and nobody ever shows up to because the zones are all dead. Yeah I can definitely see where their frustrations come from.
It's made even worse when ZOS constantly nerfs to lower the ceiling us vets are at, which hurts those newbies way more than it hurts us.
Same friend I mentioned above struggles with the idea of a rotation and weaving, he just cannot grasp that idea, and thus spams abilities and loses all his resources. If I was new at this point in time, I wouldn't be having a good time either and sustain is the number 1 reason for that, it's absolute garbage now compared to when we all started playing.
.
That's just a natural part of learning to play, though. We all started at that point, fumbling our key presses and dropping inputs left and right each time we tried to follow even a loose rotation.
Just because newer players naturally struggle, doesn't mean the vast majority of the game should cater to them. That's just called coddling, and makes their experience so much worse when they want to transition to end game.
The game should be gradually easing them into the style of play necessary for end game content. Tweaking the difficulty of overland is a necessary step towards that goal, and must happen if we want newer players to actually learn how to play.If you are a decent player.. then why would you even care about overland difficulty.. just go do some difficult content & leave the overland to the new players that are learning.
If you absolutely must do overland content but feel it's too easy.. stop wearing set pieces, remove your CP, use white unleveled weapons or your fists & don't heal.
Because quests, storylines, new DLCs all is overland and when it's so freaking easy I can't force my self to do it, I'm literally getting bored after few minutes. Dude on my second account where I had no gear, no CPs just one skill I could finish every god darn quest I wanted. This is the reason why many, many people doesn't enjoy questing anymore. I used to love it, I have 3 toons with Cadwells gold finished, but it all was when we had vet zones, when it actually meant something.
This guy gets it.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Play without CP and only trash gears you obtain when you level up. Make sure you also do some dungeons.
You will see it quite easily: ZOS has nerfed the classes base power and moved all of it to the CP system. Terrible idea because it makes new players terribly weak. I have leveled a tank from 1-50 this patch and I can tell you that it is probably the worst patch ever for a new player.1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Play without CP and only trash gears you obtain when you level up. Make sure you also do some dungeons.
You will see it quite easily: ZOS has nerfed the classes base power and moved all of it to the CP system. Terrible idea because it makes new players terribly weak. I have leveled a tank from 1-50 this patch and I can tell you that it is probably the worst patch ever for a new player.
1. I did that while leveling my Templar a few weeks ago, and while stuff took a little longer to die, and I did take more damage, it was still largely the same. Follow mechanics, or don't follow them, doesn't matter. I could let myself be stunned, sit in it the full duration, and come out with most of my health remaining.
2. The larger problem, it was like this anywhere I went. No progression, nothing. So not only was it fairly easy, it was fairly easy the entire time, which would naturally lull a newer player in my place into a false sense of security, making them think this way of playing was fine.
3. Dungeons are beside the point, because that's where mechanics and knowing how to play actually start mattering. IMO, dungeon progression is largely fine for newer players. It's entirely overland that I have a problem with.
EDIT: For reference, the entire time, I mostly spammed Sweeps, rotated Reflective Light and Blockade, and used Crescent Sweep off cooldown, all in dropped gear that was a mish mash of levels. I have a very specific way of leveling characters that kinda leaves me starving for skill slots (I try and slot 1 skill from each class line, plus 1 skill from each weapon line I want to use, so I maybe only have 1 or 2 slots that are of use to me). With the exception of how my slots were set up due to leveling, this'd basically be how a newer player would play once they figure out roughly how the skills work in ESO.Edited by jcm2606 on November 16, 2019 8:35AM0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Snip
This is a good idea, and this would ideally be how they'd address overland difficulty. I'd maybe overhaul certain mob mechanics, too, so mobs are a little more responsive to the player. If the player is late on breaking a stun, the mob may realise this, and start really laying into the player, letting their own guard down and maybe applying the off balance debuff on the mob, so the player can counter and retaliate.Edited by jcm2606 on November 16, 2019 8:39AM0 -
lagrue✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just because newer players naturally struggle, doesn't mean the vast majority of the game should cater to them. That's just called coddling, and makes their experience so much worse when they want to transition to end game.
I literally never remotely suggested it should. OP was trying to go on some tirade about how nobody should struggle or some nonsense (tbfh I still can't even tell the intent of this thread, just to crap on players who aren't as good?). I explained why some do struggle. I never once said anything bordering on the idea that the game should coddle them.
Please, no strawmans, I'm still reeling over OP's logical fallacies throughout the thread, we don't need more. This entire topic is one hot steaming pile of garbage.
.Edited by lagrue on November 16, 2019 8:54AM"You must defeat me every time. I need defeat you only once"3
This discussion has been closed.