Undaunted Event - Cancelled Permanently?
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »FrancisCrawford wrote: »Is the problem still the Groupfinder, or is it some inexplicable barrier to scaling out dungeon instances themselves?
If there's anything that should have linear or near-linear scalability, it should be dungeons and arenas ...
You mean, scale to the number of people in an encounter? You give up a lot of fine control over encounter design when you do that.
No, I meant that in the technological sense. If you do 10X the computing work, you'd like it to require only 10X the computing resources. When that happens, you are said to have achieved "linear scability", which is pretty much the ideal case.
If ZoS could get near-linear scalability, there would be no legitimate business excuse for capacity problems. By way of contrast, if some element of the system is designed badly enough to, for n users, to require on the order of n^2 resources, it's commercially reasonable for them to limit service until they fix the bottleneck technologically.
Of the first few guys I can think of who used to be top writers about the area, the one going strongest at the moment appears to be Mark Callaghan, as in http://smalldatum.blogspot.com/ Or if you don't want to jump straight into the deep water, a good example for thinking about all this is sort algorithms, as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorting_algorithm
Yeah, sorry, the Arena thing threw me off. From what little I know, my suspicion is this really is an issue with the groupfinder getting flaky. That said, it seems likely that the GF itself is chewing up way more resources than it should.0 -
OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭starkerealm wrote: »
Or just slow down. The event schedule has been pretty unrelenting this year.
And it is exceedingly unlikely to slow down. A relentless barrage of limited-time events is a textbook example of escalating monetization, as it means people feel like they need to be playing constantly or risk missing out on cool stuff, and that means more chances for people to open their wallets. And if, in the frantic rush of constant events, you miss out on some cool stuff? Well... you can always get it from the Crown Store.
Given that all Zenimax Media-owned properties have been taking a sharp turn into increasingly predatory and mobile game-like tactics in the last couple years, I suspect that A.) this is a directive from on high and B.) it will not stop until at least one property is run into the ground and milked for every penny. It'll probably be Fallout first (pun only somewhat intended), and hopefully that'll be where it ends... but it's not a good sign for the longevity of any entry in the Zenimax Media portfolio, Elder Scrolls included.Edited by OrdoHermetica on November 15, 2019 8:39AM14 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kuramas9tails wrote: »
No one is rushing them. ZOS is doing this themselves.Dusk_Coven wrote: »Don't rush them.
I think rushing them is what got us here to begin with.
Honestly I'd like to see them clear the slate till New Life. Which they can't possibly screw up because it ran smoothly last year.
You notice how every time they add a new DLC, they add an anniversary to it? That’s adding 2 more anniversary events a year. This isn’t including the events they did in the past like mid year mayhem, new life festival, etc.
All ZOS is doing is adding more on their own plate while most players would rather them slow down and focus on fixing issues.
This is because they want to give us more reasons to login and don't actually care about fixing issues.
Why people still pay or even play this game is beyond me.
You'd think they would be happy with "10 million" players the exact same way Riot Games is with their actual 8 million concurrent players. Weird how the company with 1 game at 8 million seems to weigh more than the other.Edited by Vhozek on November 15, 2019 7:00AM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.0 -
Ankael07✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Don't rush them.
I think rushing them is what got us here to begin with.
Honestly I'd like to see them clear the slate till New Life. Which they can't possibly screw up because it ran smoothly last year.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/448458/undaunted-celebration-event-follow-up/p1
This apology is from 2018. It even says the year before that was plagued with similar activity finder issues.
Now in 2019 we cant even log into the game let alone doing dungeons. I dont think rushing them has anything to do at this pointIf you want me to reply to your comment type @Ankael07 in it.7 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
Or just slow down. The event schedule has been pretty unrelenting this year.
And it is exceedingly unlikely to slow down.
Oh, I know. I'm saying what I've been saying for months. The events were really good when they existed on their own and had time to breathe. This is a mess.8 -
Alphawolf01A✭✭✭✭✭PossumPrince wrote: »Good evening everyone,
From reading the message, does this mean 2019's Undaunted Event is cancelled permanently? Or, are we not sure of yet?
No where does it say anything about "permanently" cancelling the event. I love how people read too much into things and blow it out of proportion. Way to jump to conclusions without proper information.1 -
OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alphawolf01A wrote: »PossumPrince wrote: »Good evening everyone,
From reading the message, does this mean 2019's Undaunted Event is cancelled permanently? Or, are we not sure of yet?
No where does it say anything about "permanently" cancelling the event. I love how people read too much into things and blow it out of proportion. Way to jump to conclusions without proper information.
From Gina's pinned post:
"We know that the loss of this event is disappointing and frustrating, and we have begun discussing what to do in its place." (emphasis added)
So... yeah. Sounds pretty clear that it's been cancelled permanently for 2019. Which, notably, is not the same thing as saying it's cancelled for all time going forward, but then, no one suggested that.6 -
MajBludd✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's a good thing zos learns from their mistakes and listens to customer feedback.
That's a lie, but imagine if they did.2 -
ThePedge✭✭✭✭✭I'm certain the influx in events is to entice players to stay or keep coming back to this dying game. But all they do is create more outrage and highlight glaring infrastructure issues.
They're all rubbish too. Luckily I don't care for the Opal stuff or Indriks (the noise they make is unbearable) so just don't take part.
I mainly PvP, while I would like the double AP, I'm not entirely bothered about Midyear Mayhem as it makes the lag even worse, queue times worse, and BGs aren't even doable right now so god knows how broken it will be with more players.
Stop trying to get more players when the ones that are left aren't even able to play the game or use its features.
Fix the *** things, then get players to come and they might stay around.3 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ForzaRammer wrote: »
Every event without that group finder works just fine. Every event with the finder server goes complete ***.
Except for that pesky Witches Event.... which had to be extended because, guess what, the PC EU server could not cope with the player demands.
Group Finder is a problem
It’s not the only problem
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Hallothiel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From someone who has admittedly limited understanding of programming, I am curious as to what exactly could be the issue here? What is it about GF that is not working?
And why does it seem so hard to fix?
Have never actually used it in 5 years of playing as always run dungeons with guildmates. Or if desperate for trials post in zone chat.
(And would appreciate sensible answers, not the usual ‘Zo$ don’t care about anything but the $$$’ etc etc posts. 🙂)0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hallothiel wrote: »From someone who has admittedly limited understanding of programming, I am curious as to what exactly could be the issue here? What is it about GF that is not working?
And why does it seem so hard to fix?
Have never actually used it in 5 years of playing as always run dungeons with guildmates. Or if desperate for trials post in zone chat.
(And would appreciate sensible answers, not the usual ‘Zo$ don’t care about anything but the $$$’ etc etc posts. 🙂)
My guess would be that running a lot of instances activity strains it, rather than having everyone in one place, everyone is divided into 50. It seems like the servers cant handle the number of instances, not so much the group finder itself. But during these events, there are many more instances going on and each requires its own processing2 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hallothiel wrote: »
There is a detailed and complex answer... but simply
If I was going to fix it, I wouldn’t start here.
A legacy system, built almost a decade ago, facing demand it was probably never developed for. Now maintained and run by people who probably did not develop it, with no institutional knowledge of the intricacies of its construction and workings.
To fix the servers you need to completely understand their architecture and that of the underlying game programme, develop a plan to fix it that was rational, achievable and resulted in almost zero downtime, budget that plan, get the finance, build a team capable of delivering the plan and implement it.
And that’s the very basic level of what “fix the server” actually means.
No wonder ZOS are still cowering under their desks breathing hard into paper bags and trying to pretend that nothing has happened.2 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sucks because those Opal sets were, like, really cool...and I was looking forward to getting some motif chapters for my crafter. :,(
@Snipress Those pages are added to your collection (available account wide). If you want to use them, you just need to use an outfit station.Edited by redlink1979 on November 15, 2019 11:03AM"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
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- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
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Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Until they fix the 'Group Finder'
and given the number of fails at that, assume permanently“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy2 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As other said, the whole event galore makes no sense. Having 4-5 events yearly, each going for 7-10 days, like we had in the first few years is OK, but when 1/3 or 1/2 of the year is just back to back events it's just boring and tiring. An event should be something special, you look forward to, and you can remember in a pleasurable way for months. Most of the newer "events" are just boring and lazy coding, like putting in modifiers for XP, replacing/augmenting loot tables, or some generic, boring, kill-fetch-turn in type of quests. On top of that they're attracting more people to a server that's struggling even during the weekday evening peak hours or in the week-end, outside those events. The best option would be to simply cut everything but Witches, New Life, Jester/Jubilee (they could consolidate those two) and Mayhem. Then plan carefully for them, capacity wise, so they don't have this kind of bottlenecks. I remember last year during Jubilee they had 2 days when the EU-PC server was completely dead.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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Hoolielulu✭✭✭✭✭The event was only going to be four days. So if they come out and say "Hey, we fixed it, event back on!" don't believe them. If they couldn't fix this thing in four years it ain't gonna be.1 -
Drako_Ei✭✭✭✭✭I was getting angry anyway... typical zos charging a lot for premium features like flamming weapons, then giving them away to everyone months later...1
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JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Until ZOS invests real money into real hardware server upgrades/replacement the game is going to suffer. It simply cannot deal with the amount of people playing the game.
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AlienSlof✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The finder has never worked right. The old code (likely written by someone who is no longer employed there) needs to be entirely stripped out and rewritten from scratch, rather than just sticking a bandaid over bad code. A coder friend of mine once told me it's much easier to write new code than try to fix old, buggy code written by someone else.RIP Atherton, my beautiful little gentle friend, my Shining Light. I will miss you forever. Without you I am a hollow shell.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The finder has never worked right. The old code (likely written by someone who is no longer employed there) needs to be entirely stripped out and rewritten from scratch, rather than just sticking a bandaid over bad code. A coder friend of mine once told me it's much easier to write new code than try to fix old, buggy code written by someone else.
In point of fact, the group finder was just scrapped and rewritten. So, clearly, something's not working exactly as planned.1 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭StabbityDoom wrote: »Hire. More. People. Stop being cheap, management.
Hire. Better. Programmers.
It’s not about numbers, it’s all about quality and ambition.2 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭PossumPrince wrote: »Good evening everyone,
From reading the message, does this mean 2019's Undaunted Event is cancelled permanently? Or, are we not sure of yet?
Not sure. As long as there are sufficient events/opportunity for me to get the berries I need for the snowy Indirik, I am happy. ASAP preferably, or my frosty characters are stuck with the furry camel I have lol.1 -
ruff✭✭Man we told them for so many years, pump the breaks on new content and fix your ***. Now they can’t even run a simple event. I can’t believe people still spend money on this game.
sorry but who told whom? As far as I can see (in the guild rosters) everyone (except me) is in Elsewhere - so everyone bought new content. I don't want to pay for new content until old content is fixed but I do pay for plus because I understand no one will be fixing it for free.
And I do understand that as long as people are paying for new content instead of old - it will never be fixed because it's a second priority.0 -
FierceSam✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My guess would be that unless they are 100% sure they know what failed and have 100% certainty that they can/have resolved it, they will cancel the Undaunted event. There’s another event coming next Tuesday and they can’t afford to have this one train wreck into it. If it was me, I’d bite the bullet, cancel/postpone the event, wait until I knew for sure the group finder would actually work before thinking of redoing it and move on. My main focus would be to make a billion percent sure that nothing went wrong with the next event over Thanksgiving holiday on PC NA.
I am sure that whatever they do, they will ensure that everyone gets the necessary berries/tickets/mcguffins they would have got had the event worked out. That would be the sensible move, will keep everyone happy and ready them for the next failure point/event next Tuesday.
Not sure what they will do with the opal reward motifs... but again, the point of having them in the event is so everyone who is vaguely serious about getting them can get them... so I’m sure they’ll do something that makes them available...
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wolfbone✭✭✭✭✭judging my the mssage, I think the only even we have this year now is new life because it's not involving the activity finder. getting stupid now it is.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How many mmo's have a non functioning grp finder?
I can remember a few, ironically. Though most of those have to do with the frequency of players using said finders.
Hell, even stuff like League has issues with matchmaking in the higher tiers.
It's easy to say, "oh, this should be so simple," but the actual execution is less so.0
