You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.
Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.
I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.
This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.
This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.
As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.
When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.
JumpmanLane wrote: »You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.
Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.
I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.
This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.
This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.
As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.
When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.
Oh yeah, THAT. Well...they were 1vXing until they died. THEN they got zerged down lol.
People out there trying to protect their fragile little egos.
GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
JumpmanLane wrote: »You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.
Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.
I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.
This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.
This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.
As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.
When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.
Oh yeah, THAT. Well...they were 1vXing until they died. THEN they got zerged down lol.
People out there trying to protect their fragile little egos.
Are small scalers or 1vX primarily blue and red? I am an equal opportunity killer and attack anyone who isn’t on my faction, but I see blue and red not fight each other all the time. I’ve also never met someone in game who’s against faction locks as an AD on PC-NA, but lots of people complain about it on the forums.
As a guess, are people who dislike faction locks and 1vX mainly people who like jumping between red and blue... on PC-NA?
It’s hard to tell because maybe other factions see AD do the same things, but I’m not one of them.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.
You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.
1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.
You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.
1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.
In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.
I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.
You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.
1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.
In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.
I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.
I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.
Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.
The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.
Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.
I didn't play according to any specific label, but I did play completely solo most of the time. I generally felt that when I died trying to make a play against group, I was outplayed; literally. I think attempting a play against anyone and failing means one was outplayed. It doesn't matter if one is outplayed by themselves by attempting a 1v100 fight.khajiitNPC wrote: »My question to the 1vXer, if you get xv1 do you qq about it? Personally I don’t because I know they outplayed me.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.
You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.
1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.
In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.
I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.
I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.
Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.
The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.
Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.
Yup, that makes sense.
Things that help small scale vs larger groups :
- vicious death (randoms Zerg surfing proc this on groups all the time)
Things that help larger scale:
- cleanse
- hasty prayer (or the other morph)
Those are the main things I see. Things like time stop, aoe stuns, etc... work both way so don’t really benefit one group or the other. They could tweak balance between the two by tweaking these abilities, or adding more mechanics like them.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.
You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.
1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.
In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.
I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.
I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.
Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.
The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.
Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.
Yup, that makes sense.
Things that help small scale vs larger groups :
- vicious death (randoms Zerg surfing proc this on groups all the time)
Things that help larger scale:
- cleanse
- hasty prayer (or the other morph)
Those are the main things I see. Things like time stop, aoe stuns, etc... work both way so don’t really benefit one group or the other. They could tweak balance between the two by tweaking these abilities, or adding more mechanics like them.
I think making death more meaningful would be a step in the right direction, making an ambush or flank or that kind of manuever more encouraged and mor effective despite what your numbers might be.
But with how the current dev team handles issues, I don't trust them to actually make the death/resurrection system punishing without making it broken in some way.(Sorry for bashing devs on every opportunity however the way they handled class identity really killed my hope in them, currently I can't feel any other way about it) Death should be meaningful from AvA perspective but not too frustrating from a casual perspective. Maybe giving camps a limit of how many people can spawn at a time could be a good start, forcing bigger groups to surround the keep and put up more camps. if that 40 man zerg wants to revive, they're now separated all over the place and have to group up which exposes them to danger, which is punishment for failing with such a large number.
Or if a person gets combat ressed way too many times in a row he gets resurrection sickness which gives him a massive debuff that can't be cleansed for a few minutes, allowing him to disengage but making sure he's out of the fight for a while , punishing him for being careless. This state resets after a few minutes without death to make sure you don't get resurrection sickness just because you played for too long. Just food for thought really.
That would be my way of ''nerfing'' zergs, without actually nerfing the combat or grouping aspect itself. I don't know how people would react to this kind of change however I feel like change is needed to the way Alliance War works currently. I'm all in for people making smart use of grouping up, make organized plays but chaotic and disorganized 50 man zergs shouldn't be as effective as they are currently.
khajiitNPC wrote: »I feel pretty confident with almost all 18 of my characters, some are built for “1vXing”, but I find that most of those I successfully 1vX are the same people over and over again. Typically it’s groups of no more than 5. But I know if I try to 1vX even two or three competent players, it’s not going to happen. I might kill one, but outside that I know I’m going to have to take my lumps.
Now when I watch a lot of 1vXing montages, I sort of see the same thing, 1vXer hitting the same groups or the group they are hitting are obvious potatoes just from how they play.
My question to the 1vXer, if you get xv1 do you qq about it? Personally I don’t because I know they outplayed me.
This!If teammates need help, I usually will regardless of numbers because that's what my ethics dictate. I would rather run over an opponent than let down a teammate.
Here is someone showing the typical disdain for people from another bubble, whose thought process they don't even care to understand.Trancestor wrote: »I'm just attracted to challenge and i don't give a crap about alliances or sides in this game, none of them are better than each other in the end the faction that night caps the most will always win. If i see someone getting attacked, unless it's someone annoying i hate i wont attack him, because theres no challenge or fun in it whatsoever and im not some monkey that has the thought process of "hur dur wrong color bad man hur dur must die".
Alienoutlaw wrote: »some of the 1vX vids are staged with friends so it looks "cool"