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PvP mindset and 1vXing

khajiitNPC
khajiitNPC
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I feel pretty confident with almost all 18 of my characters, some are built for “1vXing”, but I find that most of those I successfully 1vX are the same people over and over again. Typically it’s groups of no more than 5. But I know if I try to 1vX even two or three competent players, it’s not going to happen. I might kill one, but outside that I know I’m going to have to take my lumps.

Now when I watch a lot of 1vXing montages, I sort of see the same thing, 1vXer hitting the same groups or the group they are hitting are obvious potatoes just from how they play.

My question to the 1vXer, if you get xv1 do you qq about it? Personally I don’t because I know they outplayed me.
  • BaiterOfZergs
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    I don’t really like titles , just consider myself as someone who likes to fight outnumbered, preferably by myself. Although 1-4 is fine in my book. If I’m by myself I don’t complain simply because someone killed me or I tried to kill people that I already knew would kill me. I complain about mechanics/skills not working, 15 players all with 30k plus health, healbots Etc. it’s never about simply dying.
    Zerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.
  • Kikazaru
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    No, qq are reserved for ZOS and their half baked servers and performance. Let’s not forget the long standing bugs in this game. Not the players that kill me when I’m alone.
    Mizaru


    “Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
  • NBrookus
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    Competent players on their class generally do not get 1vX'd unless they get caught in a group build. If you are looking to outfight multiple average+ players solo, you will likely be disappointed. It's more possible in a group v group scenario.

    Remember, highlight videos are highlights. Not the 30 other times that day that they were fighting and had an extra dozen players (friend or foe) butt in. It's just the reality of going out and looking for outnumbered fights or getting away from the herd. Those fights only exist in the first place because of the dynamics of open world and it doesn't always work out for you.
  • Alienoutlaw
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    some of the 1vX vids are staged with friends so it looks "cool"
  • raasdal
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    1vX has always been about finding several players that are very inferior to you in either skill or gear, and beat them.

    Logically, if you try to fight just two people with whom you would normally have a prolonged 30 sec + long duel with, before finishing, you have zero chance at winning that 1v2 fight.

    There is then the odd thing about gear. If you manage to pack enough cheese, you may be able to do a 1vX with players of same skill - because your gear is elevating you to a higher bracket.

    But basically equal skill and equal gear means that you can take on only one enemy. End of story.

    ——

    Oh right, and for the question;

    No i would never QQ. I could rage a bit to myself if the loss was due to lag or something like that. But being killed in 1vX scenarios happens all the time. Even when you die, it is often still a small victory, because maybe you managed to take out 3 of the 6 opponents before taking an unlucky ulti combo or something. For a 1vX’er there can be victory even in death.
    PC - EU
    Gromag Gro-Molag - Sorcerer - EP
    Dexion Velus - Dragonknight - AD
    Chalaux Erissa - Nightblade - AD
    Firiel Erissa - Templar - AD
  • fred4
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    You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.

    Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.

    I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.

    This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.

    This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.

    As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.

    When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Demra
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    Fred4, you put it really well and it confirms my observation and explains them well.
  • JumpmanLane
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    fred4 wrote: »
    You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.

    Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.

    I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.

    This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.

    This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.

    As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.

    When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.

    Oh yeah, THAT. Well...they were 1vXing until they died. THEN they got zerged down lol.

    People out there trying to protect their fragile little egos.
  • Dr_Ganknstein
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    I love hearing them complain when they get sniped. Most the people they "X", arent running high damage builds. Then comes along a ganker running a 100% FU build...
    It's all part of the eso eco system.
    Edited by Dr_Ganknstein on November 11, 2019 12:34AM
  • Iskiab
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    fred4 wrote: »
    You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.

    Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.

    I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.

    This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.

    This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.

    As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.

    When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.

    Oh yeah, THAT. Well...they were 1vXing until they died. THEN they got zerged down lol.

    People out there trying to protect their fragile little egos.

    Are small scalers or 1vX primarily blue and red? I am an equal opportunity killer and attack anyone who isn’t on my faction, but I see blue and red not fight each other all the time. I’ve also never met someone in game who’s against faction locks as an AD on PC-NA, but lots of people complain about it on the forums.

    As a guess, are people who dislike faction locks and 1vX mainly people who like jumping between red and blue... on PC-NA?

    It’s hard to tell because maybe other factions see AD do the same things, but I’m not one of them.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 11, 2019 12:39AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • GeorgeBlack
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    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.
  • Ragnarock41
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    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 11, 2019 1:18AM
  • JumpmanLane
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    fred4 wrote: »
    You only need to watch a live stream or longer video from some small-scalers / 1vXers, for example Khyleo, to see him vehemently QQ about it. Of course, in his mind, he doesn't view it that way. What he says is: "Look at that player over there: He's zerging. So sad. He didn't use to do that. The culture in this game has really gone to s h * t." I am paraphrasing.

    Recently a player picked me up in IC and I had some great AvAs with him and his mate. After about an hour I was unceremoniously dumped from the group. I queried that. Apparently the main reason was that I attacked everyone, whereas they did not.

    I find YouTube montages very misleading. From my ingame perspective, I quite often see an unorganised zerg trying to kill a 1vXer or some small-scalers and failing miserably. In those cases I jump in and frequently end up scoring kills. I have no qualms about zerging. I play for my faction. I am the kind of person Khyleo would complain about, if I played on his server and he knew me.

    This game is divided into various cliques. There is what I would loosely call the small-scaler establishment. It isn't a single monolithic entity, but as in the above example some top players will not engage each other for various reasons, be it that they have cross-faction friends or a code of honor. That's fine, but people can get themselves into the mindset that the rules and norms from their social bubble should apply to the whole game and become rather toxic as a result.

    This is against the backdrop of fighting outnumbered being really hard. It's arguably only made possible by fighting relatively unskilled and unorganised players. Everyone admits that, I think. What is less talked about is that open-world encounters aren't entirely random, because the good players, who happen to be on the scene, may be in the 1vXers social bubble and, therefore, leave them alone. I think this may be a contributary factor to your observation that 1vXers only ever fight the same groups of unskilled or mediocre players - ones from a different bubble.

    As an aside, I main a cloaking nightblade. I think players who do that are perhaps outsiders by disposition and gravitated towards the class for that reason. I sure did. It's perhaps one more reason why "everyone" hates nightblades.

    When people QQ, when they tell you that you are a zergling and challenge you to a duel after they died, a part of that comes from their indignation that you have broken the rules of their bubble. 1vXing is hard, but it shouldn't be this hard, right? In my view, I am keeping them honest.

    Oh yeah, THAT. Well...they were 1vXing until they died. THEN they got zerged down lol.

    People out there trying to protect their fragile little egos.

    Are small scalers or 1vX primarily blue and red? I am an equal opportunity killer and attack anyone who isn’t on my faction, but I see blue and red not fight each other all the time. I’ve also never met someone in game who’s against faction locks as an AD on PC-NA, but lots of people complain about it on the forums.

    As a guess, are people who dislike faction locks and 1vX mainly people who like jumping between red and blue... on PC-NA?

    It’s hard to tell because maybe other factions see AD do the same things, but I’m not one of them.

    I think it’s more like the guy said before: the lil rule where you leave certain people alone. I think it started because folks don’t want to die. They want to happily hunt unskilled players and try to kill them outnumbered.

    I can count on my hand the number of players who can actually fight and kill skillful players solo, PCNA. The rest are purposely fighting potatoes.

    I agree with you. If you set foot in Cyro, be prepared to fight. If you run around Cyro completely solo looking to fight outnumbered, FIGHT OUTNUMBERED then. Don’t whine when you die!
    Edited by JumpmanLane on November 11, 2019 1:34AM
  • Iskiab
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    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.

    Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.

    In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.

    I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • Ragnarock41
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.

    Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.

    In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.

    I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.

    I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.

    Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.

    The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.

    Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 11, 2019 2:11AM
  • Iskiab
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.

    Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.

    In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.

    I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.

    I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.

    Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.

    The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.

    Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.

    Yup, that makes sense.

    Things that help small scale vs larger groups :
    - vicious death (randoms Zerg surfing proc this on groups all the time)

    Things that help larger scale:
    - cleanse
    - hasty prayer (or the other morph)

    Those are the main things I see. Things like time stop, aoe stuns, etc... work both way so don’t really benefit one group or the other. They could tweak balance between the two by tweaking these abilities, or adding more mechanics like them.
    Edited by Iskiab on November 11, 2019 3:29AM
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • zyk
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    khajiitNPC wrote: »
    My question to the 1vXer, if you get xv1 do you qq about it? Personally I don’t because I know they outplayed me.
    I didn't play according to any specific label, but I did play completely solo most of the time. I generally felt that when I died trying to make a play against group, I was outplayed; literally. I think attempting a play against anyone and failing means one was outplayed. It doesn't matter if one is outplayed by themselves by attempting a 1v100 fight.

    I think it's cool that there's a community of players who choose to play according to a specific code, but I don't think they should be angry with others who aren't interested in that.

    If teammates need help, I usually will regardless of numbers because that's what my ethics dictate. I would rather run over an opponent than let down a teammate.
  • Ragnarock41
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.

    Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.

    In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.

    I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.

    I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.

    Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.

    The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.

    Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.

    Yup, that makes sense.

    Things that help small scale vs larger groups :
    - vicious death (randoms Zerg surfing proc this on groups all the time)

    Things that help larger scale:
    - cleanse
    - hasty prayer (or the other morph)

    Those are the main things I see. Things like time stop, aoe stuns, etc... work both way so don’t really benefit one group or the other. They could tweak balance between the two by tweaking these abilities, or adding more mechanics like them.

    I think making death more meaningful would be a step in the right direction, making an ambush or flank or that kind of manuever more encouraged and mor effective despite what your numbers might be.

    But with how the current dev team handles issues, I don't trust them to actually make the death/resurrection system punishing without making it broken in some way.(Sorry for bashing devs on every opportunity however the way they handled class identity really killed my hope in them, currently I can't feel any other way about it) Death should be meaningful from AvA perspective but not too frustrating from a casual perspective. Maybe giving camps a limit of how many people can spawn at a time could be a good start, forcing bigger groups to surround the keep and put up more camps. if that 40 man zerg wants to revive, they're now separated all over the place and have to group up which exposes them to danger, which is punishment for failing with such a large number.

    Or if a person gets combat ressed way too many times in a row he gets resurrection sickness which gives him a massive debuff that can't be cleansed for a few minutes, allowing him to disengage but making sure he's out of the fight for a while , punishing him for being careless. This state resets after a few minutes without death to make sure you don't get resurrection sickness just because you played for too long. Just food for thought really.

    That would be my way of ''nerfing'' zergs, without actually nerfing the combat or grouping aspect itself. I don't know how people would react to this kind of change however I feel like change is needed to the way Alliance War works currently. I'm all in for people making smart use of grouping up, make organized plays but chaotic and disorganized 50 man zergs shouldn't be as effective as they are currently.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 11, 2019 4:14AM
  • GhostofDatthaw
    GhostofDatthaw
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    Fred put it very well.

    The anti "zerg" culture is a joke and has rooted itsself in eso culture. All the solo players (I'm a solo player) need to realize the "don't hit me" and the "I can hit you, don't hit me" thing needs to go away.

    The sad thing is though. I know at least on my part, well I don't play anymore, but when I did lol, I soloed to get away from everything, try to find lag free play, feel alot of people go the solo route for that reason also.
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    Like many players, sometimes I group, sometimes I solo, sometimes I zerg surf. I think all playstyles should be supported equally. I feel like 1v1 and 1vX is reasonably balanced, as is group v group. Like Ragnarock, though, I think the uncoordinated mob is way too successful for what it is. I would like there to be specific strategic advantage to small groups for some things, while preserving objectives that favor large scale assaults. But as it stands, there's NEVER any situation where it's not advantageous to just show up with the whole faction. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see that level of strategy or finesse in this game.

    To fred's comments: It's not so much a secret club, as it is that if you are a player that looks for outnumbered fights and see an enemy that's already fighting outnumbered, you generally tend not to pile on, even if they aren't a friend. (Generally, because if said enemy usually goes out of their way to zerg people down... they reap what they sow.) But you might fight each other after if they win. At least, that's how I view it. If there is some secret top tier 1vX club, I don't qualify anyway. :#

    But on the flip side, when you do successfully 1vX, the hates tells after are half the fun, as you are most certainly a cheater macro hacker and should be slitting your wrists. And it's usually not the noobs that send nasty whispers. There's absolutely. more than one bubble.

    @Iskiab I've played all 3 factions. They are largely the same. We're always outnumbered, that other faction just zergs, we are always double teamed. No one ever shows up with siege, no one defends a home keep, and they have fixations on objectives that aren't home keeps. Anything you've seen one faction do, all three do it. So yes, yellow and red sometimes don't fight and blue and yellow sometimes don't. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is your friend... for a while.
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
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    Iskiab wrote: »
    Iskiab wrote: »
    In no other mmorpg you will find the notion that one character can fight and win alone against more than 2-3 enemies.

    Thats wrong, but thats not the point. If presented the opportunity one should be able to beat the odds. MMORPGs are a dying genre and lack of skill expression is a big part as to why.

    You can ''1vX'' in shooters, battle royales or all sorts of other PvP games, and you can definitely 1vX in mmorpgs even though its much harder due to the nature of those games enforcing ''by the numbers'' type of gameplay.

    1vX'ing shouldn't be encouraged or discouraged in games. Games with PvP as their focus, simply should not punish or reward people for grouping up. It should be optional, not a requirement. If I want to play solo, I should be able to, and while that doesn't mean the game should reward me for playing solo, it at least should not punish me further for it.

    Rewarding people for grouping up is the foundation of MMOs. Trying to make a MMO reward solo play seems backwards to me.

    In early MMOs most PvE content couldn’t even be done solo. You had to have certain classes to do certain content (puller, slower, healer, tank, etc..) and it wasn’t fast leveling.

    I understand markets change and games improve so things are better now, I have nothing against 1vXers. What I don’t understand is where the entitlement comes from to ask for the game to cater to that playstyle, or complaints come from that an MMO shouldn’t reward grouping. I see a lot of complaints about people being able to heal other people and so on, I just don’t get them in the context of an MMO.

    I have nothing against ball groups or zergs either. I only wanted to say that developers shouldn't be actively trying to discourage or encourage players for grouping or not grouping up.

    Having the option to diversify synergies, item sets and roles in a group already plenty of reward for grouping up. And the number advantage goes without saying.The game already very heavily favours zerging up. High range smart heals that seek the lowest hp teammate, synergies, cleanse for the whole group , or simply combat ressing are some examples that I can tell from the top of my mind that favour having higher numbers, and discourage small scale / solo players from actually trying to fight the zerg.

    The result? If there is no other zerg to stop our ''encouraged'' zerg, they keep PvDooring, and our small scale group ? They also go PvDoor if they care for the map, or simply go to a bridge or tower and farm low skill players there. Thats not great gameplay but zerg v zerg is not very enjoyable in its current state.

    Would it be better if a small scale group could CONSISTENTLY wipe out a massive zerg? Obviously not. However there should be ways for solo / small scale players to hurt massive zergs and chip away their strength, which simply do not exist as of right now due to how this whole system works.

    Yup, that makes sense.

    Things that help small scale vs larger groups :
    - vicious death (randoms Zerg surfing proc this on groups all the time)

    Things that help larger scale:
    - cleanse
    - hasty prayer (or the other morph)

    Those are the main things I see. Things like time stop, aoe stuns, etc... work both way so don’t really benefit one group or the other. They could tweak balance between the two by tweaking these abilities, or adding more mechanics like them.

    I think making death more meaningful would be a step in the right direction, making an ambush or flank or that kind of manuever more encouraged and mor effective despite what your numbers might be.

    But with how the current dev team handles issues, I don't trust them to actually make the death/resurrection system punishing without making it broken in some way.(Sorry for bashing devs on every opportunity however the way they handled class identity really killed my hope in them, currently I can't feel any other way about it) Death should be meaningful from AvA perspective but not too frustrating from a casual perspective. Maybe giving camps a limit of how many people can spawn at a time could be a good start, forcing bigger groups to surround the keep and put up more camps. if that 40 man zerg wants to revive, they're now separated all over the place and have to group up which exposes them to danger, which is punishment for failing with such a large number.

    Or if a person gets combat ressed way too many times in a row he gets resurrection sickness which gives him a massive debuff that can't be cleansed for a few minutes, allowing him to disengage but making sure he's out of the fight for a while , punishing him for being careless. This state resets after a few minutes without death to make sure you don't get resurrection sickness just because you played for too long. Just food for thought really.

    That would be my way of ''nerfing'' zergs, without actually nerfing the combat or grouping aspect itself. I don't know how people would react to this kind of change however I feel like change is needed to the way Alliance War works currently. I'm all in for people making smart use of grouping up, make organized plays but chaotic and disorganized 50 man zergs shouldn't be as effective as they are currently.

    I don’t think disorganized 50 person groups are really effective though.

    For example I play in Homicide and we’re typically 24 people (sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less). Real threats come from organized groups, especially if you get sidelined or whatever while already engaged.

    Smaller groups do play a large role though. Say we’re fighting one guild in front, but there could be multiple other groups attacking from all directions. It’s possible to get overwhelmed but it takes a lot of people, maybe three times that number or more. Otherwise it’s typically the one group that’s the real threat.

    That’s not to diminish what PUGs can do. They help in larger battles a lot but usually through pressure or siege. The death blow is always from an organized group.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • EtTuBrutus
    EtTuBrutus
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    Pvdoor is boring and overrun with lag. It's not even challenging.

    Outnumbered game play is really the only exciting thing, mainly due to the odds. Maintaining awareness of the flow of the fight, managing it and manipulating it to come out on top is a challenge.

    Fix the gd lag zos, your game performs like hot garbage.
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    khajiitNPC wrote: »
    I feel pretty confident with almost all 18 of my characters, some are built for “1vXing”, but I find that most of those I successfully 1vX are the same people over and over again. Typically it’s groups of no more than 5. But I know if I try to 1vX even two or three competent players, it’s not going to happen. I might kill one, but outside that I know I’m going to have to take my lumps.

    Now when I watch a lot of 1vXing montages, I sort of see the same thing, 1vXer hitting the same groups or the group they are hitting are obvious potatoes just from how they play.

    My question to the 1vXer, if you get xv1 do you qq about it? Personally I don’t because I know they outplayed me.

    I only QQ when I have 10 people chasing me because that means they have no respect for my time as it's mostly a waste of theirs.

    I also QQ when there is a spontaneous 1v1 and people interupt.
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • juhislihis19
    juhislihis19
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    Good players RARELY play against each other in open world. That's why players head to enemy's homekeep resources or the furthest outpost.

    In my opinion, there are 2 types of vX'ers:

    First are the really great players who can take on several enemies at once, every now and then LoS'in them but still taking on them all in quite open.

    Then there are the good players who take on several enemies, but they run around so long that the few of the chasing enemies just give up and leaves, and those who are left, they take on 1vs1 and kill the potato right before the next chaser arrives.


    A great player will never win against 2-3 good, cordinated players. At least I've never seen this scenario. Key word to vX'ing: potatoes. You need to have at least one or 2 there - easy set procs (Fury etc.), free ultimate from the kill, free resources from HA's.

  • Trancestor
    Trancestor
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    I'm just attracted to challenge and i don't give a crap about alliances or sides in this game, none of them are better than each other in the end the faction that night caps the most will always win. If i see someone getting attacked, unless it's someone annoying i hate i wont attack him, because theres no challenge or fun in it whatsoever and im not some monkey that has the thought process of "hur dur wrong color bad man hur dur must die".
    Edited by Trancestor on November 11, 2019 8:07AM
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    I do, but only for trolling and comedic purposes. I only use experimental builds so its not a big deal if I die, and I also find it very comedic when I die instantly since I only run the base amount of resistance for added fun.

    Can't really enjoy the game if you don't die...At least that is how I feel.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    zyk wrote: »
    If teammates need help, I usually will regardless of numbers because that's what my ethics dictate. I would rather run over an opponent than let down a teammate.
    This!
    Edited by fred4 on November 11, 2019 10:38AM
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Trancestor wrote: »
    I'm just attracted to challenge and i don't give a crap about alliances or sides in this game, none of them are better than each other in the end the faction that night caps the most will always win. If i see someone getting attacked, unless it's someone annoying i hate i wont attack him, because theres no challenge or fun in it whatsoever and im not some monkey that has the thought process of "hur dur wrong color bad man hur dur must die".
    Here is someone showing the typical disdain for people from another bubble, whose thought process they don't even care to understand.

    Let's say you're a small-scaler, squatting on a resource. Fine. If that's all that's happening around the keep, I might leave you alone. However, if you get bored and start taking all the resources or you put the keep under fire and cut off the transit, then I have no issue zerging you down whatsoever.

    To be honest, I do different things at different times, but sometimes that's what my thought process is.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Moonsorrow
    Moonsorrow
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    1vX for me always been just about aggressive playstyle, positioning & movement and not caring if i am against 1 or more, just trying to finish as many of them as can, and then heading to troll siege the next keep alone or helping on some defense by baiting some of the attackers to chase you to a good location.

    Yes, there are friends of course from dueling/small scale scene that when see doing 1vs1 i do not go mess with it, i leave them do it. Only really salty people can after they lost whine about why not came to help them. Never understood why it can be so tough to just take a defeat even on a fair 1vs1?

    Heh, i admit it can be annoying if someone then Snipe spams me when i am doing some similar 1vs1 against someone else, but it`s all fair in love and war - so not QQ about it except in my own head, but since such "code of honor" is voluntarily, i do not except anyone to follow it. Atleast they make me work for the fight haha.

    Funny thing is, i feel more bad if someone comes to gank the target i was fighting with than someone coming to make it 2vs1 against me.

    While it is natural to us by nature, friends tend to avoid fighting friends, i am on most dueling and small scale discords (i have different name in game, 2 accounts, and not a single character named "moonsorrow" or any such, i`ve been on ballgroups and their discords too obviously, been a healer and the "sap essence spammer + destro ulti" type of player years ago already)..

    Not many admit it outloud, but in the end that is harmful for the pvp community, when the casuals/pugs feel like they just are there to get farmed and see some different alliance friends not attacking each others but to almost taking turns on farming them on resource towers and coming to help different alliance at keep fights if there is some uncoordinated pug groups to have fun with.

    So the last year been just attacking anyone i see unless they are on a legit 1vs1, and yes- can occasionally get some message from someone like "why u with zerglings now??!". Well, hard to find action outside emp ring anymore so sort of end up at the hot spots and if you are enemy color prepare to dance! ;)

    Also to continue with the honesty and as i`ve said before too: It is way easier to fight a unorganized group than against 1 good enemy. Because at uncoordinated groups they keep giving me (or other 1vXr) CC immunity at full hp and so on so i can then easily burst people without interruptions at my own plan, positioning and rhythm, also many of them have low damage dots that just keep procs up with minimal damage/effort ratio. So, it is actually easier than having a deadly 1 opponent who gonna use CC at right time with burst combo.

    So to the OP, yes.. there is a reason you see most streamers do 1vX against same or same kind of people, people that keep giving CC immunity at wrong times, low dmg that can passively soak and be on offensive most times, and people who get baited to choke points for aoe/ulti melting or VD proc fireworks.
  • KillsAllElves
    KillsAllElves
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    some of the 1vX vids are staged with friends so it looks "cool"

    I saw this multiple times on PC and ps4.
    A day later a video was uploaded to youtube, i went on the comment section and exposed 3 of them, the uploader disabled the video.

    This seems to be popular near bloodmayne and faregyl.
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