Some Suggestions to Clarify the Timeline for new Players (Questers)

Sylas_Orin · November 2019

(this topic has been edited a bit to make it more to the point. It's also been edited to reflect on some ideas of others in this thread)

TL;DR: HEY THE MAIN GAME STORYLINE CAN BE CONFUSING MAYBE WE SHOULD FIX THAT

I'll start off with an anecdote from when I started playing, which is on-topic with some thoughts on the game's storytelling and timeline, and how confusing it can be for new players (especially questers) to play ESO.

I joined the game back in early 2016. I played through all of AD and Coldharbour, and a little over two weeks later, I finished the main quest finale. To say I was hooked would be an understatement. I immediately fell in love with the game.

Next up was Cadwell's Silver, which took me to EP. At this point I was starting to see a pattern. Five zones for each alliance, each one with their own little story. And they all followed a main story. I played through Bleakrock Isle, then Bal Foyen, and then Stonefalls.

But in Stonefalls something happened. I played the story quests up until Fort Virak, and when I finished there, I couldn't find a quest leading me to the next place. Where did the road lead? Up to Skyrim, and me, having no clue where I was supposed to head went stumbling into The Rift.

But when I spotted the first enemy NPC, its CP had shot up! I could kill him, yes, but he was significantly harder to deal with. I wasn't sure if that was intended, so I decided to press on. I went on to Fullhelm Fort, where there was a quest! Finally, something to get into to get a sense of this zone's questline. But yet again, something was very... off. The quest giver, Sergeant Sjarakki, had some of the most spoiler-y and confusing dialogue I had seen so far. It didn't make sense, so I just tuned out for it, and decided to write it off as a particularly badly written quest. Surely it's fine, right? I move on with my exploration, to Forelhost. There I find another quest, which seems linked to the one before. The quest is a little less nonsensical, there's a brave Dunmer woman there soldiering through. I help her warm up, explore the ruin, kill a dragon priest. That was fun.

So two quests in that didn't make sense, I head down the road to Trollhetta. There's a Pact camp, here, and Jorunn the Skald-King is the quest-giver. And yet, he is oddly informal, for an enemy king. One might even think he knows the player well! Why? No idea, and there's no questions I can ask. The Worm Cult is here, and we need to act. I accept the quest, carve my way through the enemy forces, cutting down undead giants and cultists along the way, until I reach the final boss... a ghost giant named Sinmur!

But who IS he?!

I begin to realize that I've done something wrong. somehow. Did I miss a quest somewhere? Did I miss a book that explained? I think on that while I battle the ghost giant. And then, when I kill him with what I at the time thought was some great help from the NPCs, I am hit with this:

I have just played the final quest of EP with no context. Yay! I get kinda depressed having no idea where the zone's storyline started, so I push on exploring both The Rift and Eastmarch in the reverse order. Then after Windhelm I go back to Fort Virak, and there I'm able to pick up a quest I missed, which leads to Kragenmoor. From there I play all the way to Shadowfen until I get boated to Eastmarch again. To then explore the quests in the chronological order, I had to make an EP character specifically to do that. When I was able to play the story quests from start to finish I started to understand the questline a lot better, and it made a lot more sense.

REGARDING NEW QUESTERS:

TESO can be very hard to get into for questers, when it comes to its base-game's storytelling. Ever since the game went open-world, it's become very similar to the rest of the TES singleplayer games, which was a breath of fresh air. However the legacy of ESO is a railroad MMORPG. While I agree that to railroad players can be bad, I also think that it makes the storyline a cohesive whole. The storyline, whether it's written poorly or well, is a linear chain of events. Which is why we now have a problem. When One Tamriel came out, players could play through the main quest storyline without having to level up. While this meant you had to wait to finish it and level your soul magic, you were also encouraged to explore your alliance's zones and story, which logically made your character famous or renowned.

With the original tutorial you'd get an account from The Prophet, then, almost immediately next to you there was a quest giver offering an account of how you fell into the sea and got fished up, which leads you into your alliance quest line. However these days, you can do the Coldharbour starting quest, run between a cave and city a couple of times, helping a small band of people gather together, and all of a sudden, you get contacted by Vanus Galerion himself, who says you're the best candidate to negotiate with the alliance leaders, even though you have done NOTHING NOTEWORTHY that anyone has heard of. You, a nobody, is the hero that the world needs. Nobody has heard of you, nobody has met you, nobody can speak in support of you. You, a literal cave-dweller, is the most suited candidate to save the world, because.... uh, idk. Reasons.

With the release of the chapters and their unique tutorials, the main story has become increasingly obscure. I don't think it matters that a priest shows up and tells you to meet a benefactor when you port into one of the base game zones, because the main story has had its link to the alliance storylines completely removed. Several quests in the base game not required for the story can only be completed because the Vestige (the player character) has no soul, with literal dialogue quotes going something like "Not a problem, I don't have a soul!"

The official TESO Reddit page is constantly having threads written from players that don't know how to make sense of the story of the base game. I have spoken to countless new players who have told me about their frustrations with the storyline. I've given them tips on which zones to play in which order to understand the story, and many of them have thanked me for it. In its current state, the format of the storytelling needs to be changed, because the railroad legacy makes it hard to make sense of.

REGARDING THE TIMELINE:

The events of Tamriel are linear in spite of the introduction of open world exploration. The alliance quest chains lead to Coldharbour, which leads to exploring the alternate alliance stories through alternate realities. The failed Planemeld leads to the Planemeld Obverse in Imperial City, which leads to members of the Worm Cult trying to continue building dark anchors in Wrothgar (along with other recurring characters from the other storylines sharing their exploits). There's even a journal in Wrothgar called Birds of Wrothgar, that clearly marks the year as 583, Orsinium being released in november 2015, one year after the official release of TESO. Not having enough food for the winter is also a recurring theme and cause for concern mentioned throughout the Orsinium storyline.

Going by this, players (roleplayers and lore fans in particular) have interpreted that time in-game passes with a 1:1 ratio with time in real life. After Orsinium, no other references to dates have been made, but with the constantly recurring characters and references to past events, for example the chain of events from the Prophet's final prophecy at the end of Orsinium and the dialogue of Tsatva-Lan in Cradle of Shadows, to Morrowind, to Clockwork City and to Summerset.

However, Leamon Tuttle, the new loremaster, has gone on to give the following statement:

I spoke with an employee of Bethesda myself, during a survey earlier this year, whom gave the following response to a suggestion I gave them:

To rephrase what they said, in-game time is relative to you, and you decide how the stories take place. This is, in my opinion, a poor form of storytelling, and an even worse excuse to not have to do the game's primary content justice. It flies in the face of the timeline.

Take the Dragon Crisis. Dragons are in Elsweyr, even though they weren't seen for ages before. Why? Because Abnur Tharn released them from the Halls of Collosus, and I guess they've rapidly reproduced. Why did he release dragons? Because he was looking for a weapon that could end the Alliance War. Why does Tharn want to end the Alliance War? Because he's really not a bad guy.©

Wait... wasn't he kept prisoner in the Castle of the Worm, by Worm Cultists? Oh, right, we freed him in that quest, Castle of the Worm.

I understand that ZOS don't want to make players feel like they're playing the game the "wrong" way with the "play how you want" approach, but I think the idea that one can do so successfully is not just a folly, but delusional. There is a timeline of events, and I think that rather than attempting to do more one-year adventure storylines like @bluebird highlighted in his thread found here, the timeline and zone story progression should instead be clarified, to help players see how each zone's quest chain fits into the bigger picture.

HOW I THINK THIS CAN BE DONE:

As I've said, I think the base game's storytelling is fairly unwelcoming to new players, and that making all the content of TESO take place in 2E 582 is rather unfeasible. I therefore want to propose some ideas that might help make the base game's story both easier to understand, and easier to approach.

I think there should be an option to choose which tutorial and starting point you want to go with, but if you enter any of the base game zones without completing the original tutorial, you should be "forced" to do it. Maybe a Worm Cultist could walk up to your character and knock them out? This will help reestablish the game's main quest, and explain how players are able to deal with soul-threatening tasks in the base game zones. I understand that it might be annoying to have to do the first base game quest when you really just want to go to your alliance capital to grab the pledges on your newly-leveled tank, but in the interest of introducing new players to the base game zones, I think this would be a good compromise.

I also think the main quest should only be playable up until the quest Council of the Five Companions, without completing your Alliance's storyline. That way, Vanus' message will arrive just in time when the player is told by their alliance leader that they have a message from Vanus Galerion, to then grant access to Coldharbour, and the Coldharbour storyline. Which is how they did the Season of the Dragon finale, which you had to finish both Southern and Northern Elsweyr's main questline to start.

I also think that all of a zone's story quests should be locked behind the first quest of the zone. This starting point should be highlighted for players in the zone guide, unlocking the quests after completing the one before. This wouldn't mean that you won't be able to explore Fullhelm Fort as I did back in 2016, but it would mean you won't be able to do the quests there unless you have completed the ones before. DLC zones should be excempt from this, however I believe each zone should be given a mention of when it takes place in relation to the other zones. That way, if someone wants to play the zones chronologically they'd be warned if they enter a DLC zone that takes place after content they haven't done.

To also make it easier to understand the timeline, I propose the same idea that I pitched to the employee in the screenshot above; zone summaries. These could quickly recap the year of the zone's story and main events of it to catch players up on the events of Tamriel, and help give a clue which zone happened before and which comes after. The should also be available AFTER COMPLETING A ZONE'S QUESTS. That way, you will avoid potential spoilers like the employee highlighted, and give players a recap of events after they are done with a zone. I think this would add a good enough structure to let players explore the alliance questlines without sacrificing the exploration aspect of TESO that was introduced by One Tamriel.

Let me know what you think of these ideas in the comments. Do you have anything to say about how they could be improved? Do you have the gripe with how hard it can be to explore the legacy content? Do you absolutely hate quests and questers? Constructive criticism is always welcome, as is civil controversy.

sharquez · November 2019

Definitely on board with this. New players are going to be so lost without any guidance. Scrap the chapter tutorials please. They are nonsense .

TriangularChicken · November 2019

ok

Araneae6537 · November 2019

I started ESO this past July and did have several frustrations when starting out. I think the following changes would be great, especially for new players and, in my opinion, facilitate rather than limit playing how you want:

1) Give the option of where to start the game on each new character. The different intro/tutorials are already created! Let players easily jump into the content that interests them most.

2) Main storyline quests should not be given out of order. Play wherever and however you want is great and area quests should be available whenever, but don’t make it possible to stumble into the middle of the EP storyline, for instance.

3) Make DLC and other chapters optional letters you can accept (as done for Morrowind) or similar, rather than being besieged by quest-givers the moment you finally find the city to start the main quest.

I especially wanted to see Vvardenfell when I started ESO but had no idea how to get there. I tried getting there the long way, but was new and disoriented and had difficulty locating transportation and was besieged by quest givers. I found myself in Mournhold and started a quest that presented itself to me, thinking that might lead into Morrowind, but it quickly became evident that I had come into the middle of the story. I was quite frustrated and deleted that character to start again (I know, I could have just deleted the quest, but I felt it had been messed up somehow).

VaranisArano · November 2019

I'm pretty sure my SO stumbled up that same road from Stonefalls to the Rift, pre-One Tamriel when as an EP player that meant you went straight from level 15 zombies to level 40 skeletons that you couldn't even hit!

Fun times.

The new zone guide helps with the zone questlines, but it really should be expanded to give a better sense of the story arcs.

AD in particular is an excellent character-driven story, done in order. Do the zones out of order and very little will make sense.

SeaWoodStage · November 2019

I'm only about a quarter of the way through the story atm, and I've never asked for much in terms of story in this game. Hence, it hasn't disappointed. I'm pretty sure this is one of the best MMORPGs currently out there, and I'm also pretty sure that a great MMO can never be a great RPG. You just can't have both in one game atm.

redgreensunset · November 2019

If you can't make your point succinctly, which clearly is beyond you considering the needlessly long wall of text with absolutely nothing meaningful to it, you probably don't have one.

redgreensunset · November 2019

Further as a new(ish) player, one of those people you claim your "points" are for, my answer is absolutely no. I do not want to be forcibly bound to some inane order of story decided by whoever. And thanks for calling me delusional, much appreciated /s

But I guess since you've included no differing views in your way too long and convoluted "post" you're not actually interested in anyone who doesn't bow to your superior opinion. But if this game stops me from my "delusional" behavior then I'm certainly out.

redgreensunset · November 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm pretty sure my SO stumbled up that same road from Stonefalls to the Rift, pre-One Tamriel when as an EP player that meant you went straight from level 15 zombies to level 40 skeletons that you couldn't even hit!

Fun times.

The new zone guide helps with the zone questlines, but it really should be expanded to give a better sense of the story arcs.

AD in particular is an excellent character-driven story, done in order. Do the zones out of order and very little will make sense.

I did the AD zones in order and it is, with the exception of the Coldhabor storyline, the one I dislike the most. It is boring, trite and only made tolerable by Razum-dar's. The most interesting part of the whole thing, the story with the Mane at the end, was made to feel utterly pointless by being disjointed and never offering any real explanation for why any of it was really happening. (Since people will throw tantrums over even mild spoilers for year old content on this forum I'll offer no details to this as that can't be done without thorough spoilers.)

VaranisArano · November 2019

redgreensunset wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm pretty sure my SO stumbled up that same road from Stonefalls to the Rift, pre-One Tamriel when as an EP player that meant you went straight from level 15 zombies to level 40 skeletons that you couldn't even hit!

Fun times.

The new zone guide helps with the zone questlines, but it really should be expanded to give a better sense of the story arcs.

AD in particular is an excellent character-driven story, done in order. Do the zones out of order and very little will make sense.

I did the AD zones in order and it is, with the exception of the Coldhabor storyline, the one I dislike the most. It is boring, trite and only made tolerable by Razum-dar's. The most interesting part of the whole thing, the story with the Mane at the end, was made to feel utterly pointless by being disjointed and never offering any real explanation for why any of it was really happening. (Since people will throw tantrums over even mild spoilers for year old content on this forum I'll offer no details to this as that can't be done without thorough spoilers.)

Should you desire to discuss spoilers after all, the tags use square brackets instead of curvy ones. {Spoiler} spoilered text {/spoiler}.

You are entitled to your own opinion of the AD questline. My point was that it makes no sense if you do Auridon, Grahtwood, Greenshade, Malabal Tor, and Reapers March out of order. ESO, naturally, doesn't tell new AD players what order to do their own zones in. Non-AD players kinda get a guide with Cadwell's Silver/Gold, but ESO doesnt do Cadwell's Bronze.

As the OP brought up, EP runs into the same issue with Stonefalls (1st main zone) where you can run straight to the end of The Rift (final zone, and faction story climax). DC, as it happens, lets players jump from Stormhaven (2nd main zone) to Bangkorai (final zone, but at least the beginning of it). Geography-wise, ESO gets confusing and certain zone stories just don't make sense backwards. The OP's experience of doing The Rift, then Eastmarch? That would be confusing.

Those inconsistencies may not bother you, and that's fine. It certainly can be confusing for a lot of players and its one reason why I wish that ZOS included Story Arcs in their Zone Guide. That way players who care about chronological storytelling have that information available without having to look at online guides or the UESP wiki directory of quests. As it is, there were enough players asking that I wound up writing a guide for it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413807/what-order-should-i-do-esos-story-arcs-a-guide/

Lapin_Logic · November 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

I started ESO this past July and did have several frustrations when starting out. I think the following changes would be great, especially for new players and, in my opinion, facilitate rather than limit playing how you want:

1) Give the option of where to start the game on each new character. The different intro/tutorials are already created! Let players easily jump into the content that interests them most.

2) Main storyline quests should not be given out of order. Play wherever and however you want is great and area quests should be available whenever, but don’t make it possible to stumble into the middle of the EP storyline, for instance.

3) Make DLC and other chapters optional letters you can accept (as done for Morrowind) or similar, rather than being besieged by quest-givers the moment you finally find the city to start the main quest.

I especially wanted to see Vvardenfell when I started ESO but had no idea how to get there. I tried getting there the long way, but was new and disoriented and had difficulty locating transportation and was besieged by quest givers. I found myself in Mournhold and started a quest that presented itself to me, thinking that might lead into Morrowind, but it quickly became evident that I had come into the middle of the story. I was quite frustrated and deleted that character to start again (I know, I could have just deleted the quest, but I felt it had been messed up somehow).

Sometimes if you are Questing with a Friend you Want to be able to jump in to the middle of EP or wherever because your friend will Vanish in a sealed instance of the town you are in.

Either give a Warning that you are about to skip some Zone story Quests and ask if you want to continue.

or

Remove all "instanced" towns so you can still kill mobs with your friend who has completed the area previously.

or

Make All Story Quests repeatable without resetting your story progress once completed. for an MMO it is a Logistical Nightmare running with friends who only occasionally play.

renne · November 2019

Guidance on quest order would be great, tbh. I only recently got properly into the game itself (second attempt) and I don't really have much of an idea how to start the main quests for the other factions, or how much I might have stuffed up the AD main questline by popping around the joint.

Am considering starting a new character in a different faction in order to have more focus more on the storyline (which, btw, utterly painful to have to start in the DLC areas when I want to start with the vanilla beginning).

Sylvermynx · November 2019

renne wrote: »

Guidance on quest order would be great, tbh. I only recently got properly into the game itself (second attempt) and I don't really have much of an idea how to start the main quests for the other factions, or how much I might have stuffed up the AD main questline by popping around the joint.

Am considering starting a new character in a different faction in order to have more focus more on the storyline (which, btw, utterly painful to have to start in the DLC areas when I want to start with the vanilla beginning).

Once you get through the tutorial (or choose to skip it), wayshrine to the mainland hub for your new faction: Vulkhel Guard for AD, Davon's Watch for EP, Glenumbra for DC. A "Hooded Figure" will accost you, send you to her Benefactor, and that starts the original "main quest".

renne · November 2019

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Once you get through the tutorial (or choose to skip it), wayshrine to the mainland hub for your new faction: Vulkhel Guard for AD, Davon's Watch for EP, Glenumbra for DC. A "Hooded Figure" will accost you, send you to her Benefactor, and that starts the original "main quest".

Oh, thank you! I didn't realise you can do that that early in the game!

I think I also got confused when I started this playthrough - don't know if it was because of skipping the tutorial because I thought it was connected with the base game nd not the DLC region - because I completed the entire Elsweyr main quest... before I completed the Elsweyr prologue.

This entire playthrough is a hot mess.

Maxx7410 · November 2019

toooo much to read

Sylvermynx · November 2019

renne wrote: »

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Once you get through the tutorial (or choose to skip it), wayshrine to the mainland hub for your new faction: Vulkhel Guard for AD, Davon's Watch for EP, Glenumbra for DC. A "Hooded Figure" will accost you, send you to her Benefactor, and that starts the original "main quest".

Oh, thank you! I didn't realise you can do that that early in the game!

I think I also got confused when I started this playthrough - don't know if it was because of skipping the tutorial because I thought it was connected with the base game nd not the DLC region - because I completed the entire Elsweyr main quest... before I completed the Elsweyr prologue.

This entire playthrough is a hot mess.

It's something that I figured out simply by googling. I had read some stuff here on the forum, but hadn't run across that particular info. I wound up with Morrowind tutorial since that came with the Gold package I bought. But I KNEW there had to be a "base game" thing somewhere.

Google. I know people think you shouldn't have to do that to figure out a game - but I'm good with it. Now, two full chapters on (Summerset, Elseweyr) at least I can help out good people like you who are a little confuzzled by the setup.

Have fun in your adventures!

Soella · November 2019

I agree that new players are completely lost story wise. But I am pretty sure large number of them don't really care about story order, they can work on them piece by piece and restrictions will not be a good change.

There is simple method, though, to provide guidance for those who is interested in it without restricting others. We already have zone guide, it is oriented on complitionists. Why not introduce simple story guide with a few options - "Play whole story", "Play XXX alliance" "Don't need story". If story option is selected, player is getting additional breadcrumb quests guiding through storyline, with probably some small guidance.

Monte_Cristo · November 2019

ErinM31 wrote: »

2) Main storyline quests should not be given out of order. Play wherever and however you want is great and area quests should be available whenever, but don’t make it possible to stumble into the middle of the EP storyline, for instance.
.

Like when I killed the Veiled Queen, then went back to the start of the zone and they were still there, no one apparently knowing they were the baddie because I hadn't done the first 3rd of the zone's story quests.

Shawn_PT · November 2019

Can I give this post 100 awesomes and 100 agrees? Apparently not. Can't even give one of each. Shame.

Every new player should read this. Every dev should too.

I consider myself lucky to have joined ESO back when there were only 3 'DLC' (what's that??? Do I have to buy the game in parts?? What gives?), which IIRC were the Imperial Edition, Imperial City, and Wrothgar. I wanted to create an Imperial character but found out I was forced to pay extra for that. Why? That sucked. But oh well so be it. Then I looked at the store and could not for the life of me understand the difference between the IC DLC and the Imperial edition so I went for the one that I thought would give me everything, Imperials and their city. I discovered I had bought the wrong DLC, and couldn't understand why. I was quite upset.

Anyway as time went by and new tutorials were created I started to see players lost in the game. Far, FAR more lost than I had been when I started. Because things used to make sense. You were dropped in the very beginning of your character's (the Vestige) story. Mages guild, Fighters guild and Main Quest chapters were unlocked at the same time people advanced through the alliance story, which made sense. It fit perfectly, and wrapped up so very nicely since we'd likely be lvl 45 or so when we got to Stirk.

Now it's a complete mess. Whatever guiding line the game had has been lost. I have even had to show some players the original game intro and the Alliance CGI sections which are amazing, and the new players don't even know they exist! The only way for them to even see them is YouTube. Such an integral part of a videogame's core story should be part of said game and not removed and forgotten.

For whoever is wondering, I'm talking about these.

https://youtu.be/soKDyDjc3KQ

Why were these removed? Why? Please bring the original start back. Or at least give players a choice of where to start. That would be simply marvelous.

Marcus684 · November 2019

Cripes! Such a wall of text.

Why are a few people so concerned with how other players progress through this game? What is the advantage of spoon-feeding new players a particular sequence of zones, other than self-aggrandizement of the person who decided they know what the “proper” sequence should be? I’m content with letting ZOS decide how they want players to discover each zone and the quests therein.

redgreensunset · November 2019

Marcus684 wrote: »

Cripes! Such a wall of text.

Why are a few people so concerned with how other players progress through this game? What is the advantage of spoon-feeding new players a particular sequence of zones, other than self-aggrandizement of the person who decided they know what the “proper” sequence should be? I’m content with letting ZOS decide how they want players to discover each zone and the quests therein.

Yeah some people on this forum have a serious *** for How The Game Should Be Played (ie, how they think it should be played) and no other way should be permitted. I wouldn't object to a bit more guiding on the chronology of the story, but to want to not just bar people from playing in whatever way they see fit and going so far as to calling them delusional to do that... well OP lost any and all legitimacy to their point there.
And them dismissing other people's play style as delusional is several kinds of ironic when you look at their user name.

Edit: Oh wait, they're the anti-titty person. Thought I remembered them from some other silly argument.
OP, for the record, there are several motif styles in the game that let you have exactly what you want, a flat chested plate on a woman. No need to bar everyone else from looking like they want to.

VaranisArano · November 2019

Marcus684 wrote: »

Cripes! Such a wall of text.

Why are a few people so concerned with how other players progress through this game? What is the advantage of spoon-feeding new players a particular sequence of zones, other than self-aggrandizement of the person who decided they know what the “proper” sequence should be? I’m content with letting ZOS decide how they want players to discover each zone and the quests therein.

I'm glad you are content.

Personally, I see enough questions from players who are confused when quests don't make sense (because they did them chronologically out of order) or can't find the Main Quest, that I see the need for ZOS to improve upon their Zone Guide to offer players more guidance (if they want it) about the Story Arcs, chronologically-ordered zones, and how to start the Main Quest.

The advantage is simply that players who want that help will have it in game without having to ask in zone chat or Google it. If you are content to do it your way and igbore that info, that would still be an option!

ZOS is more concerned with throwing players into the newest Chapter content, which has led to such storytelling goofs as new characters who start in Elsweyr fighting dragons, then later doing the Elsweyr Prologue to release the dragons with Abnur Tharn and then meeting Abnur for the first time when you rescue him from the Castle of the Worm.

Some players are comfortable with that level of suspension of disbelief. Other players aren't and prefer a more chronological experience so everything makes sense. Its not self-agrandizement to ask ZOS to better support both types of players.

logarifmik · November 2019

Personally, I find this "fractured but whole" kind of approach to narrative disgusting. I'm glad to see, that this particular topic is raised more and more often now. We can only hope, that devs will finally listen to the community.

Thank you, comrade OP, for such a detailed coverage of the problem.

Sylas_Orin · November 2019

redgreensunset wrote: »

Further as a new(ish) player, one of those people you claim your "points" are for, my answer is absolutely no. I do not want to be forcibly bound to some inane order of story decided by whoever. And thanks for calling me delusional, much appreciated /s

But I guess since you've included no differing views in your way too long and convoluted "post" you're not actually interested in anyone who doesn't bow to your superior opinion. But if this game stops me from my "delusional" behavior then I'm certainly out.

redgreensunset wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I'm pretty sure my SO stumbled up that same road from Stonefalls to the Rift, pre-One Tamriel when as an EP player that meant you went straight from level 15 zombies to level 40 skeletons that you couldn't even hit!

Fun times.

The new zone guide helps with the zone questlines, but it really should be expanded to give a better sense of the story arcs.

AD in particular is an excellent character-driven story, done in order. Do the zones out of order and very little will make sense.

I did the AD zones in order and it is, with the exception of the Coldhabor storyline, the one I dislike the most. It is boring, trite and only made tolerable by Razum-dar's. The most interesting part of the whole thing, the story with the Mane at the end, was made to feel utterly pointless by being disjointed and never offering any real explanation for why any of it was really happening. (Since people will throw tantrums over even mild spoilers for year old content on this forum I'll offer no details to this as that can't be done without thorough spoilers.)

I did welcome constructive criticism, so instead of ignoring you and your ad hominems completely, I will address the relevant parts of your post. I added the following TL;DR to the main post:

TL;DR: HEY THE STORYLINE CAN BE CONFUSING MAYBE WE SHOULD FIX THAT

That is what the thread is about. As for me "calling you delusional", no, I did not do that. I called the idea delusional, rather than you as a person. As a person, I honestly think you might not get along with others, but that's my personal opinion of you.

You're not forced to play the storyline if you don't want to. Maybe you just want to run around doing dungeons and killing monsters? The great thing about this game is that if you want to, you can do that! Go be a merchant, selling goods on your guild trader. Wanna play a solo werewolf build that goes around and kills everything on sight? Have fun!

But some people care about the storyline, and want to experience the way it was intended, when the game was first released. This thread is addressing that particular problem, and how the game's quest system is outdated, compared to the game today. That's understandable, of course, it is a pretty big game, which has been out for a long time. And this is a pretty convoluted topic, which I think I would not do justice, if I didn't try to describe exactly what the problem is.

I am not calling for all quests to be locked by a playwall. I am not calling for the game to be reverted to v2.5.10 (pre-Update 12). I am raising a concern about how the storyline can be daunting to play, and proposing my personal ideas for how I think it can be solved. If you disagree, that's quite alright! But I think that the main zone questline quests and the side quests that contain spoilers or are related to the zone questlines should be revamped and reapproached.

If you want to continue discussing this, feel free to respond, but do please try to avoid the ad hominems, this time.

TL:DR: I disagree, pls be nicer to people

VaranisArano wrote: »

It certainly can be confusing for a lot of players and its one reason why I wish that ZOS included Story Arcs in their Zone Guide. That way players who care about chronological storytelling have that information available without having to look at online guides or the UESP wiki directory of quests. As it is, there were enough players asking that I wound up writing a guide for it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/413807/what-order-should-i-do-esos-story-arcs-a-guide/

I gotta say that I absolutely love the work you did with this thread. Thanks, mate! Stuff like this absolutely helps questers explore Tamriel consistently

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

ErinM31 wrote: »

I started ESO this past July and did have several frustrations when starting out. I think the following changes would be great, especially for new players and, in my opinion, facilitate rather than limit playing how you want:

1) Give the option of where to start the game on each new character. The different intro/tutorials are already created! Let players easily jump into the content that interests them most.

2) Main storyline quests should not be given out of order. Play wherever and however you want is great and area quests should be available whenever, but don’t make it possible to stumble into the middle of the EP storyline, for instance.

3) Make DLC and other chapters optional letters you can accept (as done for Morrowind) or similar, rather than being besieged by quest-givers the moment you finally find the city to start the main quest.

I especially wanted to see Vvardenfell when I started ESO but had no idea how to get there. I tried getting there the long way, but was new and disoriented and had difficulty locating transportation and was besieged by quest givers. I found myself in Mournhold and started a quest that presented itself to me, thinking that might lead into Morrowind, but it quickly became evident that I had come into the middle of the story. I was quite frustrated and deleted that character to start again (I know, I could have just deleted the quest, but I felt it had been messed up somehow).

Sometimes if you are Questing with a Friend you Want to be able to jump in to the middle of EP or wherever because your friend will Vanish in a sealed instance of the town you are in.

Either give a Warning that you are about to skip some Zone story Quests and ask if you want to continue.

or

Remove all "instanced" towns so you can still kill mobs with your friend who has completed the area previously.

or

Make All Story Quests repeatable without resetting your story progress once completed. for an MMO it is a Logistical Nightmare running with friends who only occasionally play.

IMO the phasing problem is pretty irksome. Would be nice to have a feature to choose whether you want to explore phases the way they are pre-quest and after.

Soella wrote: »

I agree that new players are completely lost story wise. But I am pretty sure large number of them don't really care about story order, they can work on them piece by piece and restrictions will not be a good change.

There is simple method, though, to provide guidance for those who is interested in it without restricting others. We already have zone guide, it is oriented on complitionists. Why not introduce simple story guide with a few options - "Play whole story", "Play XXX alliance" "Don't need story". If story option is selected, player is getting additional breadcrumb quests guiding through storyline, with probably some small guidance.

I agree with you on that. Maybe some limited restrictions could work better, like say, making the quest-locking just per zone? Then again, I think that would still mess with the alliance progression, like for AD, where you get to know the Queen at the start of Auridon, then slowly build up trust or get to know her through the entire storyline.

Soella wrote: »

I agree that new players are completely lost story wise. But I am pretty sure large number of them don't really care about story order, they can work on them piece by piece and restrictions will not be a good change.

There is simple method, though, to provide guidance for those who is interested in it without restricting others. We already have zone guide, it is oriented on complitionists. Why not introduce simple story guide with a few options - "Play whole story", "Play XXX alliance" "Don't need story". If story option is selected, player is getting additional breadcrumb quests guiding through storyline, with probably some small guidance.

I agree with you, most people don't care, but as you well know, many find MMOs unapproachable because of the amount of story content and uncertainty of how to play it chronologically. I think that being told the storyline could be a good thing too, though. Giving the players that want to explore the game chronologically a way to find out how to do so is the best call, imo.

Marcus684 wrote: »

Cripes! Such a wall of text.

Why are a few people so concerned with how other players progress through this game? What is the advantage of spoon-feeding new players a particular sequence of zones, other than self-aggrandizement of the person who decided they know what the “proper” sequence should be? I’m content with letting ZOS decide how they want players to discover each zone and the quests therein.

Yeah, I probably should've included a TL;DR for the people that don't want to read it

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but like I said in response to Soella, I think the people that want to explore the game the way the storyline panned out should be given an easier way to go about doing so. If you would rather go to Trollhetta and help the king destroy the Worm Cult, then travel to Vernim Woods to discover that the Worm Cult you just finished are collaborating with the Reachmen, then travel north to Fort Amol in Eastmarch to find that the king was just poisoned by Covenant soldiers, go for it.

The status quo of the game allows that.

redgreensunset wrote: »

Yeah some people on this forum have a serious *** for How The Game Should Be Played (ie, how they think it should be played) and no other way should be permitted. I wouldn't object to a bit more guiding on the chronology of the story, but to want to not just bar people from playing in whatever way they see fit and going so far as to calling them delusional to do that... well OP lost any and all legitimacy to their point there.
And them dismissing other people's play style as delusional is several kinds of ironic when you look at their user name.

Edit: Oh wait, they're the anti-titty person. Thought I remembered them from some other silly argument.
OP, for the record, there are several motif styles in the game that let you have exactly what you want, a flat chested plate on a woman. No need to bar everyone else from looking like they want to.

Your dedication to polemics is slightly concerning. Good day.

@Shawn_PT @VaranisArano @logarifmik Thank you so much for your support. ^^

idk · November 2019

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

[
As I believe has been properly established, the game is fairly unwelcoming to new players, in regards to the storytelling,

All of us were new players at one point or another. I can say I did not find the game very unwelcoming and it seems a great many players seem to feel welcome enough to stick around for awhile.

I also think you are very much overthinking things when you get into the timelines with Orsinium and Coldharbor planemeld as well as speaking to what other players think when you are really just speaking to what you think.

I think you are just overthinking things to which you are entitled. LIttle tears in a story that is a mess of stories will happen and I would suggest not getting to hung up on it. Certainly this is not something that is an issue with most players.

EDIT: tbf did not read the entire OP. Doubt many will. To long and was challenged getting to the point and not even getting to OP's anecdote and life history in game. If you want Zos to give this any attention I suggest a direct approach without the fluff.

This comment is not intended to insult the OP. It is written in hopes they visit the idea again and be more direct while leaving out the commentary along the way as it only serves to distract.

TheNightflame · November 2019

I agree, the zone/quest guide could be clearer

idk · November 2019

TheNightflame wrote: »

I agree, the zone/quest guide could be clearer

Certainly Zos can make this clearer however I think it serves it's basic purpose well. I really think it was a good idea they added it.

Sylas_Orin · November 2019

idk wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

[
As I believe has been properly established, the game is fairly unwelcoming to new players, in regards to the storytelling,

All of us were new players at one point or another. I can say I did not find the game very unwelcoming and it seems a great many players seem to feel welcome enough to stick around for awhile.

I also think you are very much overthinking things when you get into the timelines with Orsinium and Coldharbor planemeld as well as speaking to what other players think when you are really just speaking to what you think.

I think you are just overthinking things to which you are entitled. LIttle tears in a story that is a mess of stories will happen and I would suggest not getting to hung up on it. Certainly this is not something that is an issue with most players.

Personally I'd argue that it was easier to explore Tamriel (and be new) before One Tamriel. If people don't care for it, or they're firmly against it, that's fine. But as this thread and the thread that @VaranisArano posted here demonstrates, there are people on both sides of the spectrum. So I think that the developers ought to favour the side of consistency in storytelling, if able, since having an inconsistent storyline is a turnoff for a significant portion of players.

TheNightflame · November 2019

it was a good idea for sure (it helped getting zone achievemnts) but i still needed to go online to look up the right order of quests and where to find quest givers. a lot of markers too are old i discovered

Sylas_Orin · November 2019

I agree with you both on the zone guide being a good thing.

It's a step in the right direction for sure, but I feel like it should be expanded or built upon further.

ArchMikem · November 2019

I admit, i only read like, 80% of the OP, but yes i am of the same mind. The chronology of the world should not be compromised just so players have more freedom. That supposed freedom only breeds chaos and confusion. You never read a book by picking chapters at random.