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Block in need of serious nerfs
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This game and the community is a giant pile of trash lol. Long gone are the glory days of ESO never to return.10 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »Pretty sure you are ignoring the PvE aspect of blocking that a tank does.
Zos has nerfed blocking by increasing the cost of blocking and eliminating stamina regen while blocking.
Couldnt agree more. I know tanks arent that usefull in most normal content, but for Vet dungeons and Trials, blocking is needed. If you are going to nerf it further it will drive more and more people away from actually tanking in PvE.
ZoS is once to blame for not seperating Pve and PvP, wich can be done easy. Just make a different tooltip for each, and balance those out for their respective PvE and PvP sides.
Agree except to how easy your solution is. The coding alone would be gargantuan, and who knows how it would react to the tangled web we have now.
It was a design decision during development to balance the two together, I'd wager it's not in the cards for it to change 5 years in.
It's not as bad as you think. It's literally just checking if the target is a player, or if the caster has Battle Spirit applied (since Battle Spirit is only present in PvP), and, if so, do something different. A few lines of code, at most, if even.
There's already a skill in the game that works this way -- Teleport Strike. Teleport Strike will stun the target, unless they're a player, in which case it will only snare the target. The functionality is already there, they just need to extend it to other skills.
It did, but now it behaves the same on any target. They moved away from separate systems.1 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why not create a PvP cyrodil set that "Does X against a blocking target".
Seems easy enough.
I always find it slightly funny with PvP alterations that require rework of either 20+ abilities etc, and they wonder why ZoS ignores them. No money, but a crap load of work. Seems good.Edited by karekiz on November 7, 2019 3:00PM1 -
Hapexamendios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No, no more nerfs. This idea is worse than what they already did with the last to patches.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Tell them to get rid of the vengence CP passive and block casting heals won't be as huge as a problem anymore.1 -
drkfrontiers✭✭✭✭✭
✭Blocking seems to be a persistent problem, regardless of meta and tank builds seem to be the easy thumbless players favourite, however its for the most part sword and board blocking that is the real issue. There shouldn’t be such a high degree of cost reduction and added damage mitigation simply by using the most potato friendly form of damage mitigation. The idea that using a couple of glyphs, adding some armour traits a disgusting amount of CP in to block cost reduction and before you know it you can perm block ON A MAGICA BUILD. This is however what happens when you balance PvP and PvE together.
Im no master of how to balance an MMO but I feel that the blocking either needs a fatigue (like streak and roll dodge) or it needs to have its cost and damage reduction passives added to skills within the weapon line rather than as passives, in order to make it not such an attractive back bar option for so many different builds. Block casting is another huge issue, you cannot spam multiple abilities at once and you cannot use abilities whilst heavy attacking or dodge rolling, so why can you cast abilities whilst holding block? It really is an insane crutch when someone is in execute with no active HOT, holds block and heals like its nothing.
Why? Why in Gods good heaven would you ask for a nerf.. HAVE you learnt nothing....."One must still have chaos in oneself to be able to give birth to a dancing star."
~ Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Interesting that cry out suddenly, because for once a real OP mechanic gets targeted. Sword and Board is the most powerful of all weapon types right now, with absolutely no counters left. Last one got lost as the Dizzy stun got destroyed after all that blockholding players cried how unfair it would be. Really Dizzy Swing was one of the few counters besides DoTs to permablocking, since it could give you a short time period where you could inflict huge damage (Example: Stamina runs out, block breaks, Dizzy Stun -> Heavy Attack -> Execute).
And thats because almost EVERYONE runs around with Sword and board in Cyrodiil right now, even Magicka classes, all counters got eliminated.
As soon as you can see that the huge majority of players switched to a certain type of weapon it is evident that it is to strong right now since no one would switch to a weaker weapon.
A good start to nerf permablocking would be blocking the use of Skills during block.
I actually have to edit, that I speak mostly from CP experience which tunes up sword and board massively, in no CP it doesn't seem to be such a big issue.Edited by L_Nici on November 7, 2019 4:33PMPC|EU0 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Blocking is fine in noCP but I do agree that it could use some adjustments.
For example, give us back full or partial stamina regen while blocking but add a fatigue mechanic that rapidly ramps cost for successive blocks. This would actually reduce the ability to blocktard while making block a little more accessible to non-snb users.3 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoVeit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.1 -
Veinblood1965✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lost me with the word Nerf. Also all these balancing nerf requests are ruining PVE for those of us that like it.6 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oh crap, let's just nerf everyone's pet peeve until combat means running around in underwear calling the boss bad names. This nerf paradigm will kill this game.5 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't know what thw solution is, because this has big implications for pve. But you should not be seeing block, block, block, block, block, block, block for every hit you attempt on a player running away from you with no shield up. What shields there are should not be spamable, permanent no damage at all for 5-10 minutes.Edited by Katahdin on November 7, 2019 5:06PMBeta tester November 20130 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL at all these players that want us to have no defense, should we provide our own jar of Vaseline and just bend over as well?5 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »LOL at all these players that want us to have no defense, should we provide our own jar of Vaseline and just bend over as well?
Notice how the players complaining about tank meta almost never mention things like bloodspawn, BRP DW, etc. but always mention HoTs, heavy armor, etc.
Just let that sink in for a moment...It's obvious what they want is for the game to be "balanced" around them.5 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Come over to no cp. For real
As you identified, CP allows a large reduce to cost. If you like tankier play, go cp, if you want more calculated game play where regen and resource management is more important, no cp. I do know people that like the tanky feel with higher regen, which is fine with me. I don't, so i'm in no cp.
Otherwise the only solution I can see is increasing costs in cp campaigns as nerfing it would impact pve.
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Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Turn Evil into burstBeta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pretty sure you are ignoring the PvE aspect of blocking that a tank does.
Zos has nerfed blocking by increasing the cost of blocking and eliminating stamina regen while blocking.
PVP blocking needs nerfed and PVE blocking needs buffed. It’s a shame ZOS is either too ignorant or too lazy to rectify this though.Edited by Vlad9425 on November 7, 2019 6:21PM5 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
https://youtu.be/JzS96auqau0
YounginsEdited by max_only on November 7, 2019 6:47PM#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Secretly I love you all. That goes double for the people asking for Bloodspawn nerfs. Ssshhhh.Edited by Vapirko on November 8, 2019 5:27AM1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Siohwenoeht wrote: »Pretty sure you are ignoring the PvE aspect of blocking that a tank does.
Zos has nerfed blocking by increasing the cost of blocking and eliminating stamina regen while blocking.
Couldnt agree more. I know tanks arent that usefull in most normal content, but for Vet dungeons and Trials, blocking is needed. If you are going to nerf it further it will drive more and more people away from actually tanking in PvE.
ZoS is once to blame for not seperating Pve and PvP, wich can be done easy. Just make a different tooltip for each, and balance those out for their respective PvE and PvP sides.
Agree except to how easy your solution is. The coding alone would be gargantuan, and who knows how it would react to the tangled web we have now.
It was a design decision during development to balance the two together, I'd wager it's not in the cards for it to change 5 years in.
It's not as bad as you think. It's literally just checking if the target is a player, or if the caster has Battle Spirit applied (since Battle Spirit is only present in PvP), and, if so, do something different. A few lines of code, at most, if even.
There's already a skill in the game that works this way -- Teleport Strike. Teleport Strike will stun the target, unless they're a player, in which case it will only snare the target. The functionality is already there, they just need to extend it to other skills.
It did, but now it behaves the same on any target. They moved away from separate systems.
News to me, but still, point remains. There was a skill in the game that worked that way, there's no reason why they can't extend that to other skills.0 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stop crying for nerfs. Block has been nerfed into the ground over the past few years and is in no way OP.5 -
JanTanhide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another stupid pvp thread, good..
Soon : "Plz ZoS nerf walking"
..
Oh, this has been somewhat of a nerf cry in the past as well. Look through the forum and you will find quite a few PVPers crying to nerf jumping.
If we want the game to be "balanced" then I suggest when you pick up that heavy sword and board or 2H Maul/Mace, etc that it cost you stamina. How in the heck do you REGAIN stamina when completing a heavy attack?
You don't. So let's nerf walking, running, jumping and of course all the Stamina physical attacks so it cost stamina and that your physical attacks only do the damage at the time of impact based on the existing amount of stamina in the stamina pool. Same for blocking. It should all be based on the amount of stamina in the stamina pool at that moment in time.
/s
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Gnome_Saiyan✭✭✭Not a problem. You will hardly find any hardcore permablockers among the ones being most dangerous. If you are having problems with "blockers", you are trying to kill the wrong people. You don't necessarily HAVE to kill every single enemy player around. I constantly find myself having to remind people "Ignore xxxxx - don't chase him into the tower, take out xxx by the gate instead or get on siege!".
It's interesting that even in the forums, tanks are pulling aggro, distracting from the real threats. From your example it would seem that some people (NOT talking about OP or anyone here, I mean 'those other" some people) but some people are of equivalent intelligence to PVE mobs.Roll your Self before you Role yourself0 -
DaNnYtHePcFrEaK✭✭✭Why are pvp players such ignorant pieces of [snip] lol... if you change blocking you ruin pve
[Edit for minor profanity]Edited by ZOS_Bill on November 12, 2019 12:23AM8
This discussion has been closed.