DPS queuing as tank/healer

FierceSam · November 2019

DR4GONFL1 wrote: »

I do over 75dps on the 21 million dummy and can heal people all day so with the option of getting in a dungeon in a minute or being in que for 30 minutes minimum usually 45 minutes I'll continue to sign in as a healer. And if honest most everyone would too. That's too long when your a solo dps to wait over a half hour and then if you happen to miss it then your over an hour to run a random or daily dungeon. There really aren't many dungeons (veteran included) you need an actual healer in with the exception of a few and still a magplar or even pet sorc and give enough heals along with the groups self heals.

Healer queues as healer shocker.

Dude, if you are actually healing and buffing the group, it doesn’t matter what else you are doing, you’re fine to queue as a healer.

If you’re a tank and can taunt bosses, withstand punishment, and deal with tank mechanics, you’re a tank. If you can also do a load of damage, that’s fan bloody tastic. If that’s you, go queue as a tank, I’d love to have you.

If you’re a shitepile DPS who can’t be arsed to heal or doesn’t pack a taunt, stop shitting on your fellow players and thinking that’s acceptable.

FierceSam · November 2019

CynicK wrote: »

May be there is lack of aviability of tanks but it looks to me that the servers they use to do dungeons have a limit on the number of dungeons they run and they reach it giving the quantity of people playing the game and that is why you have to wait an hour to do a dungeon as a dd.
Ok that you have to farm gear but tanking dungeons is also fun I get the rewards of the most difficult dungeons with my tank because my dps is bad, If they want to queue as tank make a tank.
I think the real problem is that they have a limit on the dungeons they run at the same time, that they have to have it but is too low, and that is why there are those long queues to play as dd, my opinion.

That’s unlikely to be true given you can just walk in to any dungeon you like any time you want.

The truth is that everyone wants to be a DD and the game is entirely structured around being a DD. There is no place in the solo questing game for either tanks or healers, they get zero credit, lose out on boss fights and loot and generally have a poor experience. ZOS provides exactly zero tutorials on either tanking or healing, and exactly zero metrics to enable players to judge and improve their performance.

Given that you need 2 players willing to play these roles (for which they usually get no thanks, because they don’t contribute DPS although they do massively debuff the bosses and can double your DPS with buffs and synergies) to allow just 2 DDs to play, it’s no wonder the queues for DDs are so long.

Glad to hear you’re playing a tank and you find it enjoyable. If it’s done well it can be fantastic.

Aloha · November 2019

If there are 4 good DDs, Healers and tank are useless for CP160 in veteran mode.

Tank and 3 good DDs is BiS for hard CP160 dungeon (i.e CoA II) and hardmode dungeon.

Healer/Tank/2 DDs are BiS for 300 CP dungeon (DLC dungeon).

Bennisphinx · November 2019

Aloha wrote: »

If there are 4 good DDs, Healers and tank are useless for CP160 in veteran mode.

Tank and 3 good DDs is BiS for hard CP160 dungeon (i.e CoA II) and hardmode dungeon.

Healer/Tank/2 DDs are BiS for 300 CP dungeon (DLC dungeon).

I could not care less what is "BiS". If I'm doing a vet dungeon with 2 or 3 random people (which is usually the case when queuing up for a random dungeon) I'd much rather have the usual tank/healer/2dd setup. On paper it might take longer, but in reality it often prevents the group from repeatedly wiping when there are players who are not entirely familiar with some boss' mechanics (which inevitably happens when running with PUGs); and even if it just helps people to focus on the fight, instead of them running around in circles to not get killed - pulling around adds and sometimes even the boss in the process - it easily makes up for this theoretical loss of speed.

Gnortranermara · November 2019

Simple solution: Kick all fake tanks, 100% of the time. You don't have to be a good tank, but you darn well better be a real tank. Fake tanks are the lowest form of gutter trash in this game. I don't care what the content is, kick them all. Kick kick kick. Put them through so many extra load screens that they hate their life and want to quit this game forever. I wish a million infinite load screens on every fake tank. I absolutely support some kind of filter to prevent fake tanks from ever even getting a queue. Like, if you queue as tank and don't have a taunt (Puncture, Fiery Rage, or ice staff) then you should just sit in an infinite queue and never get grouped, because eff you. In fact, they should just automatically get disconnected from the server, have their account deleted, and get added to a government watchlist so they can't work in child care or live too close to public schools where they might influence children with their self-centered a-holery.

Pure healers are inefficient and unnecessary in all 4-man content. They are only needed in trials. I won't run 4-man content with a pure healer, so I always queue as the healer and run my DPS/healer hybrid. I keep a Ritual down and I'll pop a burst heal when needed, but otherwise I'm contributing DPS (and often that means fully carrying 2 low-DPS randos).

Austinseph1 · November 2019

Scum of the earth I know.

James-Wayne · November 2019

They need more skills with a taunt and they need content that is not tank healer dps setup seeing you can play any role in ESO. Maybe some new mechanics for 4x dps to play would help.

oddbasket · November 2019

Instead of fake tanking, you can double role your DPS as a tank just by changing gear, if you invest the points into OH&S any skills you might want that you think helps.

I've leveled a mule thanks to the double xp as DPS spec with all attributes in stam and typical DPS focused CP and tried this, and tanked vet Ruins of Mazzatun and vet March of Sacrifice through the random queue yesterday. I'm back to a DPS just by changing back my gear.

FearlessOne_2014 · November 2019

This the result of queuing with Random PUGs. You get fake Tanks and Healers. Also you get DDs that have no business queuing for Vet Dungeons.

Best advice anyone can give you. Is if you want to avoid such debauchery. Just form a pre made and or group only with friends or players from your guilds.

Other than that you'll get these trolls and headaches.

TL/DR ~{ When you queue with Randoms, you lose!}~

Xarc · November 2019

well you are crying but at least, with the fake tank, you find a dungeon.
Without him, you're just queuing during 1hour so, please, stop blaming players, stop calling for vote to kick. Blame zenimax only.

Tiff_ar15 · November 2019

I hate fake tanks with a passion. But if it's a normal dungeon and they have decent dps.. whatever. Rarely the case though. Most fake tanks I've had the misfortune of coming across were doing 10k dps, if that and obviously not tanking.

FierceSam · November 2019

Aloha wrote: »

If there are 4 good DDs, Healers and tank are useless for CP160 in veteran mode.

Tank and 3 good DDs is BiS for hard CP160 dungeon (i.e CoA II) and hardmode dungeon.

Healer/Tank/2 DDs are BiS for 300 CP dungeon (DLC dungeon).

This is irrelevant. We’re talking about queueing for random dungeons.

You can make your group up as you please if you do that before queueing. However, if you queue up as a tank or healer you should have the skills and ability to play those roles rather than cheating your fellow players.

FierceSam · November 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

well you are crying but at least, with the fake tank, you find a dungeon.
Without him, you're just queuing during 1hour so, please, stop blaming players, stop calling for vote to kick. Blame zenimax only.

Never had to wait so long that I’ve appreciated playing with a cheat.

You want to cheat your fellow players, you shouldn’t be here.

BeamsForDemacia · November 2019

TBH u should aways have a "tank" in the group bec stacks are better = faster and u dont need to dodge heavies or kite boss, but heal is not needed in any dungeon, and some groups should be happy to have a fake heal / dd because if there is literally no dps no point in healing a 10min fight

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

Fake healers and fake tanks should be instant kick. When people use group finder, they expect to get a tank or a healer. The ONLY reason why people queue as fake tanks or fake healers, is because they dont want to wait. No other reason. Want to play 3dd-1tank or 4dd or -3dd-1healer? Suit yourself. Find like-minded people and do it. But dont screw other peoples game.

When I see a fake healer or a fake tank, its instant kick.

Xarc · November 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

well you are crying but at least, with the fake tank, you find a dungeon.
Without him, you're just queuing during 1hour so, please, stop blaming players, stop calling for vote to kick. Blame zenimax only.

Never had to wait so long that I’ve appreciated playing with a cheat.

You want to cheat your fellow players, you shouldn’t be here.

playing a DD instead of a tank isnt a cheat.

gatekeeper13 wrote: »

Fake healers and fake tanks should be instant kick. When people use group finder, they expect to get a tank or a healer. The ONLY reason why people queue as fake tanks or fake healers, is because they dont want to wait. No other reason. Want to play 3dd-1tank or 4dd or -3dd-1healer? Suit yourself. Find like-minded people and do it. But dont screw other peoples game.

When I see a fake healer or a fake tank, its instant kick.

No, the group should be immediatly disbanded to be precise, because you are crying about a DD taging as a tank to launch the dungeon and once in the dungeon you kick the tank and you stay here ? No, the group must be disbanded in this case. You have no more rights to play than other players.

daedalusAI · November 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

well you are crying but at least, with the fake tank, you find a dungeon.
Without him, you're just queuing during 1hour so, please, stop blaming players, stop calling for vote to kick. Blame zenimax only.

You do sound like a fake tank/heal.

Does ZOS force anyone to queue as a fake tank/heal, or is that a deliberate decision of that player?

gatekeeper13 · November 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

No, the group should be immediatly disbanded to be precise, because you are crying about a DD taging as a tank to launch the dungeon and once in the dungeon you kick the tank and you stay here ? No, the group must be disbanded in this case. You have no more rights to play than other players.

Lol, disband a group of 4 people where 3/4 play their real roles and 1/4 plays a fake role? What the hell are you talking about? Makes absolutely no sense. People expect real tanks and real healers. Not fake ones. If you want fake tanks/healers, form your own group without pug. We are talking about DUNGEON FINDER here, not groups that are made of people who agree in a specific group setup. You cant disband a dungeon group formed from dungeon finder.

And I agree. I have no more rights to play than others. As you dont have more rights to play than others. So the one who plays as a fake tank or a fake healer and steals the spot from a real tank or a real healer who is waiting in queue, should be instant kick.

Aloha · November 2019

This post shows the gap between Friendlynoobplayer and middle/hardcore player.

As a middle player, I do not need healer and tank for veteran dungeon 160 CP without HM. Even more, i Solo all 160 CP vet dungeon without group mechanic and without HM.

If we really need a tank for instance, they won't be fake tank which can be ... powerful

!

But yes in random dungeon, when you tag as tank and you are a DPS and the dungeon is a DLC one, erh... disband please !

The problem is not ZoS or DPS which can solo or tank any instance in vet mode just swapping skills/gear, the problem is the PvE. This PvE is too easy and allow burst mechanics and skip , then healers and tanks are kind useless for normal or easy vet dungeon.

We need group mechanics to prevent these situations, #TheHolyTrinity.

(I do not like DPS/Tank/Healer trinity for PvE mechanics but the game is set up like this, so leaddesigners can you fix the game ?)

Xarc · November 2019

Fake tanks are only a problem when we need a real tank... In vet DLC dungeon. But it's idiot to play a random vet dungeon honnestly. When you want to get achievement/loot from a dlc vet dungeon, you'll make your own team and you'll have a real tank...
otherwise, in normal random dungeon... 4 dd are even ok.

I don't see where is the problem.

daedalusAI wrote: »

Xarcus wrote: »

well you are crying but at least, with the fake tank, you find a dungeon.
Without him, you're just queuing during 1hour so, please, stop blaming players, stop calling for vote to kick. Blame zenimax only.

You do sound like a fake tank/heal.

Because I understand why they're doing it.
And no, I'm also a real tank. I can say a lot about noob DD who taunt everything with 1hand/shield or ice staff heavy attack... Sometimes I just want to do a quick normal random dungeon, and after 1 hour, i'm tired to wait, so I go as tank with my DD and i just slot a taunt skill for boss.

Gnortranermara · November 2019

Aloha wrote: »

so I go as tank with my DD and i just slot a taunt skill for boss.

That's perfectly fine, if you can hold aggro, stand still, stay alive, and avoid dragging the boss all over the map. Maybe get an interrupt here and there. That's all anybody is asking for.

Naftal · November 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

Aloha wrote: »

If there are 4 good DDs, Healers and tank are useless for CP160 in veteran mode.

Tank and 3 good DDs is BiS for hard CP160 dungeon (i.e CoA II) and hardmode dungeon.

Healer/Tank/2 DDs are BiS for 300 CP dungeon (DLC dungeon).

However, if you queue up as a tank or healer you should have the skills and ability to play those roles rather than cheating your fellow players.

Same goes for the dps role.

Bennisphinx · November 2019

Xarcus wrote: »

Fake tanks are only a problem when we need a real tank... In vet DLC dungeon. But it's idiot to play a random vet dungeon honnestly. When you want to get achievement/loot from a dlc vet dungeon, you'll make your own team and you'll have a real tank...
otherwise, in normal random dungeon... 4 dd are even ok. [...]

Since it is so advantageous to not have a tank and healer when doing dungeons, why do all the fake tanks and healers not just ask for a 4DD dungeon group in chat? Seems to me like they should have a group full of like-minded players in no time. Then all "idiots" who want to play the game the casual, intended way could happily use the dungeon finder, and the hardcore players would not have to put up with slow runs. Problem solved?!

Xarcus wrote: »

[...] Sometimes I just want to do a quick normal random dungeon, and after 1 hour, i'm tired to wait, so I go as tank with my DD and i just slot a taunt skill for boss.

I think - and so do seemingly many others in this thread - that even if you're technically a DD, but you pack a taunt, can prevent bosses and certain adds from annoying the true DDs, and you also don't die all the time, then that's perfectly fine. It just gets beyond annoying when your fake tank doesn't even have the decency to equip a taunt and damage shield, and all of the sudden you have to jump around like a rabbit and run a damage shield to not get hit, knocked-back or even die. That's just not fun when you originally signed up as something completely different.

Rexy18 · November 2019

Unless you're doing FV hardmode (which you probably wouldn't with randoms anyway), DDs queueing as healer are doing the group a favour.

Fake tanks should be kicked in non-DLC if they're pulling <40k.

Fake tanks should be kicked instantly in DLC.

Aloha · November 2019

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Aloha wrote: »

so I go as tank with my DD and i just slot a taunt skill for boss.

That's perfectly fine, if you can hold aggro, stand still, stay alive, and avoid dragging the boss all over the map. Maybe get an interrupt here and there. That's all anybody is asking for.

And I heal, this game is so EZ

(no troll)

OolongSnakeTea · November 2019

Rexy18 wrote: »

Unless you're doing FV hardmode (which you probably wouldn't with randoms anyway), DDs queueing as healer are doing the group a favour.

Fake tanks should be kicked in non-DLC if they're pulling <40k.

Fake tanks should be kicked instantly in DLC.

My tank only has 37k HP, and she's a legit tank- sword and board, and all the meta CP from jdub and everything. So uh... wat.

lagrue · November 2019

Comixfan wrote: »

Not sure about on PC, but almost every dungeon of late on Xbox has DPS queuing as tank and/or heals.

This needs to stop. There are roles in game for a reason.

Zenimax need to change it so that if you have no taunt abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as tank, and if you have no group healing abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as healer.

So screw Wardens and their ice staff taunt?

What if I queue as a healer as a Dragonknight only using Obsidian Shard *which is a healing ability*

your solution is not a solution.

Rexy18 · November 2019

thesoundofwolf wrote: »

My tank only has 37k HP, and she's a legit tank- sword and board, and all the meta CP from jdub and everything. So uh... wat.

I meant 40k DPS. Might be overkill for non-DLC, but if someone's pretending to be a role they're not, then they should at least make it up with some deeps

zaria · November 2019

lagrue wrote: »

Comixfan wrote: »

Not sure about on PC, but almost every dungeon of late on Xbox has DPS queuing as tank and/or heals.

This needs to stop. There are roles in game for a reason.

Zenimax need to change it so that if you have no taunt abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as tank, and if you have no group healing abilities on your bar(s) you can't queue as healer.

So screw Wardens and their ice staff taunt?

What if I queue as a healer as a Dragonknight only using Obsidian Shard *which is a healing ability*

your solution is not a solution.

All have an ice staff taunt and ice staff back bar is meta.
You can run an warden stamina healer
Add that any healer worth their salt can switch from dd or at least overland build / dd-heal hybrid, full heal with interrupt and damage secondary. With dressing room / alpha gear you can switch inside dungeon between fights.
I named them overland, normal, vet and dlc, (trials is special as focus is way more into buffs)
I tend to get asked to do more healing on healers even if no asked for non death run and nobody died.
And yes if you have to go dlc build in an normal dlc you know this will fail.

Ardan147 · November 2019

Tiff_ar15 wrote: »

I hate fake tanks with a passion. But if it's a normal dungeon and they have decent dps.. whatever. Rarely the case though. Most fake tanks I've had the misfortune of coming across were doing 10k dps, if that and obviously not tanking.

Kick them anyway. If it can be done without an actual tank, it can probably be done with just three players, and kicking them sends a message that such behavior will not be tolerated.